You Bryston cultists

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Xinon

Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #20 on: 29 Oct 2017, 09:34 am »
I own the Bdp3 and the Lumin D1.
Bdp3 sounds slightly  better, maybe because of USB vs the BNC of the Lumin.
The Lumin app on the other hands make the Manic Moose look like it has been made by amateurs, specially when Nas or Tidal is the source.
I wish the app on Bryston could be on par with the Lumin, it would make the Bdp the player to beat.

Grant Hill

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #21 on: 29 Oct 2017, 11:31 am »
I own the Bdp3 and the Lumin D1.
Bdp3 sounds slightly  better, maybe because of USB vs the BNC of the Lumin.
The Lumin app on the other hands make the Manic Moose look like it has been made by amateurs, specially when Nas or Tidal is the source.
I wish the app on Bryston could be on par with the Lumin, it would make the Bdp the player to beat.

I never used a BDP3, but this is exactly the critic that I often found on the web.... Great sound quality but bad app... I think this is the problem of having an app built internally vs using a third party software (roon, JRiver ...).

On the other hand, BDP3 has features that not many competitors have: made in Canada and not in China, linear alim. (Not switching), many outputs and not limited to USB, it can read DSD, it can be used with big external drives AND with Nas... If agree with you that with a good app it will be the player to beat.

Phil A

Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #22 on: 29 Oct 2017, 01:30 pm »
I own the Bdp3 and the Lumin D1.
Bdp3 sounds slightly  better, maybe because of USB vs the BNC of the Lumin.
The Lumin app on the other hands make the Manic Moose look like it has been made by amateurs, specially when Nas or Tidal is the source.
I wish the app on Bryston could be on par with the Lumin, it would make the Bdp the player to beat.

While I likely would agree (with the general analysis), it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison.  The Lumin D1 is an entry level piece with a DAC and the BDP-3 is about 75% (?) more money.  I'd expect it to sound better.   I've more or less said the same thing about the OS (probably either in the BDP-2 vs. BDP-3 or the BDP-3) in threads (there was page after page at least at one point with issues).  It seems, and it is not limited to Bryston, that everyone wants to design their own OS.  From what I understand (could be mistaken), Lumin did the App for the Esoteric network player.

Phil A

Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #23 on: 29 Oct 2017, 01:31 pm »

On the other hand, BDP3 has features that not many competitors have: made in Canada and not in China, linear alim. (Not switching), many outputs and not limited to USB, it can read DSD, it can be used with big external drives AND with Nas... If agree with you that with a good app it will be the player to beat.

The USB connections in the BDP-3 are a great thing and give it wonderful flexibility.

Phil A

Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #24 on: 29 Oct 2017, 01:35 pm »
I am impressed that no one attacked me...that was a somewhat angry and provactive post of mine. The Bryston DACs have garnered outstanding reviews, but i am quite disappointed in my Pi (which is not a DAC, obviously). It failed after 4 months due to a bad SD card. Bryston sent me a new SD card which was DOA. I was also sent a wrong size tool to unscrew the case, which slightly marred the screws, and I had to purchase a size 8 Torx screwdriver on my own. (Apparently I have an early production model, currently the Pi uses a larger, size 10 screw). A trip back to Bryston has fixed things, but they did not replace the screws, which will be an issue if I sell it (a marred screw could indicate that that the owner was monkeying around inside). But mostly I remain terribly disappointed with the Manic Moose software and Tidal application, considering the $1,250 price.

There should be no reason that anyone attacks anyone over an opinion.  That's why Baskin Robbins has many flavors of ice cream.  Anything that has ever been made can have problems.  The better companies like Bryston take care of those issues (vs. ignore them and move on to the next product year products) and that's why their customers keep buying their products.

FullRangeMan

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #25 on: 29 Oct 2017, 04:40 pm »
I am impressed that no one attacked me...that was a somewhat angry and provactive post of mine.
No prob, it will debt points in your bill...

CanadianMaestro

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #26 on: 30 Oct 2017, 01:42 am »

BigGeek

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #27 on: 30 Oct 2017, 02:02 am »
Love my Bryston gear. I have (and had) a lot of it. Absolutely hate MM. i use Soundirok to have a somewhat reasonable interface for the daily use of the thing. For equip mangement itself MM is sufficient. I need to do that about once every two weeks.

Why don't you Bryston guys leave MM for that and hire some decent web app developers to make apps like Soundirok or MPAD (but a lot better)? Come on. It cant be that hard. Geez the loner guys make this stuff in fly by night shops and sell them for peanuts.

My iPad gets a workout controlling my music playback. The $3 app i use doesn't have trouble with accents in composer’s names or showing my album art or artist images. It also doesn't have issues looking up info about albums or artists and it shows that info in reasonable ways. Also it doesnt have weird UI choices in it where labels and headers of sections are displayed over useful info from sections underneath.

Let’s not kid ourselves, the UI is generally appalling. We shouldn't be comparing it to other products in this category. We should be comparing it to best in class UI that we would really want for covering the tasks of displaying info to us users and giving us high quality controls for manipulating those views. I want good sorting and filtering of the info. Along with logical layout, proper adherence to generally accepted web UI/UX standards and a pleasant experience to use.

I have been waiting for somone else to raise this issue. Love the sound. Love the generally reliable operation of my BDP’s. (not sure what that other guy was talking about when he said it was like a science project). Really don’t like the UI that Bryston supplies for it’s players. I would not own one, if I didnt have anotherr choice through a web app. This thing costs thousands and it is hamstruung by MM.

Krutsch

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #28 on: 30 Oct 2017, 02:51 am »
I have no doubt that Bryston makes fine amplifiers. But Manic Moose is far from cutting edge. The video of Chris (if that is his real name) explaining the new Manic Moose release is positively amateurish, long pauses and whatever.  And just look at all the complaints and questions about Bryston digital (except a CD player).

I've lost count of the number of bugs I've taken the time to write-up and post here. Manic Moose is, by a wide margin, the worst audio playback user interface I've ever used (and I've used / seen just about everything).

Part of the problem is Bryston chose to build a web-based UI - for an app like this, that was a catastrophic choice. I'm sure it sounded like a good plan in the beginning.

The second issue with the BDP is that Bryston made some unfortunate software choices, with respect to third-party integration (DLNA, uPnP and TIDAL being stand-outs). Even with MPD, to this day, Manic Moose still struggles reading/processing audio track meta data, something I never encounter with the same audio files using media libraries like Roon, MinimServer, whatever.

Bryston did a nice job with Roon, but Roon is designed for vendors like Bryston that really don't want to build their own UI and Roon does the bulk of the heavy lifting.

A vendor like Bryston really has 2 choices:

1. Go all-in with your own user experience and build your own apps with a dedicated team of software developers (e.g. AURALiC being a good example of this approach that was successful);

2. Delegate to third parties *everything* except basic admin functions (e.g. Sonore's xRendu series being the poster child for this model). If Bryston had partnered with someone, like Volumio, they would have a better MPD player and UI than Manic Moose.

Hindsight is 20/20 and, to be fair, the BDP-1 was designed in a "simpler time" when things like Roon and TIDAL didn't exist and putting music onto thumb drives was something people still did. I have my library on a pair of large thumb drives and use the BDP-1 as an MPD player with Soundirok or as a Roon endpoint. The hardware stands up well in these modes and sounds fantastic.

So, I am not unhappy. But to be honest, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of a new BDP-3 with all of the above as a backdrop.

Bryston needs a new software strategy if they are going to continue selling really expensive digital players.

Elizabeth

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #29 on: 30 Oct 2017, 03:32 am »
Bryston needs a new software strategy if they are going to continue selling really expensive digital players.

I have to agree.
Trying to do this in house, or with somebodies brother in law is not working.
On the other side. it is easy to say it needs to be better.
MAKING it better... may be a long hard road the Bryston money guys may not be willing to pay for.
Needing a genius, or to fork out for patents..
(If it has to pay it's own way.. It may never happen. Which is what I think has been going on so far. No willingness to front the money until it is there from sales. But then few sales since the system is sucky.)

zoom25

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #30 on: 30 Oct 2017, 04:50 am »

I have my library on a pair of large thumb drives and use the BDP-1 as an MPD player with Soundirok or as a Roon endpoint. The hardware stands up well in these modes and sounds fantastic.

So, I am not unhappy. But to be honest, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of a new BDP-3 with all of the above as a backdrop.

Bryston needs a new software strategy if they are going to continue selling really expensive digital players.

Well put. I might have considered a BDP-2 or BDP-3 due to their ability in handling MPD libraries better than BDP-1. However, I have lost my interest in continuously tweaking my library to make it work perfectly with MPD and third party apps. It's too much work. Roon solves all of that. So, while the USB inputs and Bryston standalone use via MPD is definitely a plus to still have in BDP-1 and other models going forward, it just no longer carries the same weight that it did in the past. The software is just not worth dealing with for me.

Essentially, my main and only purpose for using a BDP-1 is as a Roon Ready endpoint for SQ. It sounds better than feeding my DA directly from a computer. As mentioned, there are already devices like "xRendu" that serve this purpose already. So for me, going forward, I will be picking RoonReady endpoints based on SQ alone UNLESS that device offers something else that is comparable.

Bryston BDP-3 is priced at $3495 and has bunch of stuff that at the current moment I don't need. Now, I'm sure the BDP-3 sounds better than my BDP-1 since people seem to prefer BDP-2 over the BDP-1, but at that price, I wonder if there is something better sounding than the BDP-3 at a lower price that only has to worry about maximizing performance as a pure network streamer/RoonReady endpoint.

That's currently where my mind is regarding media and network players, and what Bryston is offering currently or plan on offering in the future.

(FWIW I'd love to see a comparison of SQ of BDP-1 vs. BDP-2 vs. BDP-3 in identical RoonReady modes. Everything else turned off and nothing attached to the USB.)

myview

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #31 on: 30 Oct 2017, 07:51 am »
I have to agree that it's a pity that Bryston, over so many years, has not really perfected the UI for the BDPs.  I am not technical and I love music.  I want something which is just plug-and-play without fuss.  I have a BDP-1 (of which firmware I had not updated since 2013 or earlier) which I used to control with MPad on my iPad.  I loved the sound of the BDP-1 when plugged into my BDA-1.  I did not want to update the firmware because of 2 issues: 1) I am not technical and it sounds complicated and 2) reading on this forum about the issues users face with the MM discouraged me from doing anything.  I have not used my BDP-1 for almost a year now (due to a combination of reasons, interface being one) so it's collecting dust.  In place of it, I am using a different music server and it has served me very well....sounds very good too and the interface just works without hiccups.

I am still a big Bryston fan and have ordered a good range of upgrades (cube monos, BP-17 cube, BDA-3 and Model T Actives) but have refrained from ordering a BDP-3 for the reason I mentioned above.  I have no doubt BDP-3 sounds great but the enjoyment of my music depends on more than just good sound.  It's a pity because I'd really have liked an all-Bryston system.

artur9

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #32 on: 30 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm »
RoonReady is a nice feature and it's tough to beat the Roon UI.  HST, when I tried Roon it failed on my mostly classical collection.  I hear it's better now but still not very good.

I am using Linn Kazoo, MinimServer and upmpdcli to control my BDP-1 and I'm very satisfied with the experience.  Not all that different from the Sonos experience when I think about it.

James Tanner

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #33 on: 30 Oct 2017, 01:00 pm »
Hi Folks

This is not a whine – just an explanation of the evolution of our BDP products.

The original BDP concept was quite targeted in that all I wanted was a dedicated quality computer to allow the playback of USB type drives and have the ability to create playlist etc. But over the years more and more features were being added due to our customers wanting more and more flexibility in the software.

The earliest versions of the MM software were rudimentary in feature sets but over the years has evolved to become much more feature laden than what I originally conceived the BDP to be. So not an excuse just a realization that the software interface was becoming more important than the technical expertise and sound quality in the BDP’s.

So long story short the latest software being developed by Chris is head and shoulders above the first software offerings (especially the latest beta versions) and is improving every day. So please bear with us as we go forward and be aware that we are attempting to improve the software continually and allowing our customers to update their BDP’s with better software interfaces as we go.

james

CanadianMaestro

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #34 on: 30 Oct 2017, 01:10 pm »
I've certainly learned a good deal from the posts on this thread, especially the various UI's available to control BDP -- Linn, etc. I may explore these but as I said, the SQ is still the prime driver (as with most owners of BDP) around my household, not the extras. I've never had any serious operational issues with my BDP -- the Bryston UI allows me to load, update, play, view, select, create playlists. For me, that's good. Good enough? Maybe if I developed an urge to see all the cover art, do global searches of my library flawlessly, etc., then nope. There's room for improvement definitely.

Having said that, I agree with the other posters here -- the current MM pales in comparison to the other after-market external UI's available, as far as graphics are concerned.

I think the fact that BDP can still be used with the other beautifully designed UI's is a credit to the "open" software compatibility of the player (if I'm using the wrong terminology here, knock me).

Keep the thread goin'.


p.s. the allegation that a particular software developer at Bryston is employed because he is a "brother-in-law" of a Bryston exec is hilarious but uncalled for imo.

James Tanner

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #35 on: 30 Oct 2017, 02:02 pm »
p.s. the allegation that a particular software developer at Bryston is employed because he is a "brother-in-law" of a Bryston exec is hilarious but uncalled for imo.
[/quote]

Gee's where did you hear that? - there are no software engineers at Bryston related in any way to an exec - except maybe related as part of the human race!

james

Phil A

Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #36 on: 30 Oct 2017, 02:37 pm »
p.s. the allegation that a particular software developer at Bryston is employed because he is a "brother-in-law" of a Bryston exec is hilarious but uncalled for imo.


Gee's where did you hear that? - there are no software engineers at Bryston related in any way to an exec - except maybe related as part of the human race!

james

Maybe it's just the pictures on the web and they assumed one was your nephew? :green:



James Tanner

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #37 on: 30 Oct 2017, 03:11 pm »
Maybe it's just the pictures on the web and they assumed one was your nephew? :green:



LOL - my younger days.  :lol:

CanadianMaestro

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #38 on: 30 Oct 2017, 03:20 pm »
p.s. the allegation that a particular software developer at Bryston is employed because he is a "brother-in-law" of a Bryston exec is hilarious but uncalled for imo.


Gee's where did you hear that? - there are no software engineers at Bryston related in any way to an exec - except maybe related as part of the human race!

james

I have to agree.
Trying to do this in house, or with somebodies brother in law is not working.

Pundamilia

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Re: You Bryston cultists
« Reply #39 on: 30 Oct 2017, 04:14 pm »
I have to confess that I too am underwhelmed by the MM interface.

I appreciate James' comments that it has evolved way beyond the original design intent. But there are still functions that do not work as advertised. I have literally spent hours updating metadata for my music using the MM "editor" and the results NEVER get saved. I have asked Bryston personnel for help on several occasions and they have responded, but the issue still exists. I was told that the problem occurred because my files are stored in .WAV format, but the problem persists even with FLAC files. As a result the "wonderful" new features, such as the artist view don't work properly. Chris told me that this would be fixed in the 2.38 release.

Please, please, clean up what is already there before continually going wild, adding new features.