Belden 8402 IC

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Big Red Machine

Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #140 on: 21 Jun 2017, 11:07 am »
Once you go liquid, wire is so passe :wink: :thumb:

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #141 on: 21 Jun 2017, 12:24 pm »
Once you go liquid, wire is so passe :wink: :thumb:

Once you deal with the in room acoustics and polar response of the loudspeaker there is no turning back!  :green:

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Anand

Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #142 on: 22 Jun 2017, 03:05 pm »
Then explain why cables sound different.
The link in my post #131 has several papers about why cables may sound different.

But the quick answer is noise, interference, ringing or even oscillation.

Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #143 on: 22 Jun 2017, 03:19 pm »
A twisted pair is all one requires. The three wire Kimber is so they can weave the wire. Takes at least 3 wires to make it a weave... As for two ground. I would think Kimber actually listened to the results of two main, one ground, vs two ground and found it sounded better? Kimber offers three wire braid in bulk, and various four wire braided in bulk.
But there are no ground wires in a balanced interconnect. It's a two wire system with (or without) a shield. A wire or two does not make a shield.

Quote
A shield is not required for most audio level signals. specially since the standard has move up to pro 2v vs the old audio gear 0.5 volts.
While pro audio is moving towards unshielded Cat5/Cat6 it requires very well made bonded Cat cable. A woven cable is very far from the needed manufacturing symmetry. It's not easy to make good unshielded balanced cable.

Quote
The one place an audiophile might need a shield is on phono cables, since that signal is pretty small voltage.
In the modern world, I have a very different viewpoint, there are new noise & interference sources showing up everyday. Any product that you buy that connects to AC power has the potential to be a problem.


Letitroll98

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #144 on: 22 Jun 2017, 07:48 pm »
The link in my post #131 has several papers about why cables may sound different.

But the quick answer is noise, interference, ringing or even oscillation.
Thanks for the link.  It'll take me a while to dig through all that material, but looks like some interesting stuff.  Any particular one you think might apply more than the others?

Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #145 on: 23 Jun 2017, 01:28 pm »
The first 7 or so papers in the Hum, Buzz and RFI section.

celo

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #146 on: 14 Jul 2017, 08:20 pm »
How is the 8402 and 8412 same when their technical specs are totally different? They will sound the same or not, I don't know but technically they are not the same cable.

Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #147 on: 14 Jul 2017, 10:09 pm »
Maybe there is a typo in my 1997 Belden catalog, because the catalog lists identical specs.
Nope, my 1985 catalog has the same specs. There is an extremely small difference in the overall diameter.

celo

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #148 on: 14 Jul 2017, 10:12 pm »
Maybe there is a typo in my 1997 Belden catalog, because the catalog lists identical specs.
Nope, my 1985 catalog has the same specs. There is an extremely small difference in the overall diameter.

I was not referring to you. I had checked their website and looks different to me.

http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/8412.pdf
http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/8402.pdf


Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #149 on: 14 Jul 2017, 10:22 pm »
Yep, that tech sheet for the 8412 is very, very different than my two & three decade old catalogs.
No Teflon® in the old catalogs.
But the balanced interconnect system is very robust, no reason for them to sound different.

WireNut

Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #150 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:58 pm »
Here's a few pics of my Belden 8412 bulk cable.














That's why they call me WireNut  :thumb:

earwig

Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #151 on: 22 Jul 2017, 01:47 pm »
The wire that made me go nuts was the Harmonic Technology pro silway 2, A guy brought one over plugged it into my system and the soundstage tightened up,the focus and clarity formed into coherent o bought one pair then a second pair later.Why it sounds so dramatic a difference beats me. so I unscrew the rca and see two 20 guage solid copper wire and two 20 guage pure solid silver wire . So that means each conductor is one copper solid insulated Teflon wire and one solid silver Teflon wire so they work  together in quad twisted two different types of metal pair. The rest if a thick unknown constructed  shield 9If I could only figure that one out). And locking rca. As far as I know if you don't have this wire you don't even know what your stereo really sounds like. In any case its marked me for another wire nut for life trying to find out how it even works.Id like to make one but if want any ideas heres one I just said above ,lol. now if I could only figure out what that shield is hmm?

DaveC113

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #152 on: 22 Jul 2017, 02:49 pm »
The wire that made me go nuts was the Harmonic Technology pro silway 2, A guy brought one over plugged it into my system and the soundstage tightened up,the focus and clarity formed into coherent o bought one pair then a second pair later.Why it sounds so dramatic a difference beats me. so I unscrew the rca and see two 20 guage solid copper wire and two 20 guage pure solid silver wire . So that means each conductor is one copper solid insulated Teflon wire and one solid silver Teflon wire so they work  together in quad twisted two different types of metal pair. The rest if a thick unknown constructed  shield 9If I could only figure that one out). And locking rca. As far as I know if you don't have this wire you don't even know what your stereo really sounds like. In any case its marked me for another wire nut for life trying to find out how it even works.Id like to make one but if want any ideas heres one I just said above ,lol. now if I could only figure out what that shield is hmm?

Harmonic Tech is a Neotech company, you can get the wire used as Neotech UPOCC wire. Shielding is probably braided copper, I prefer it tinned, some also use a layer of foil as well. Shielding materials are very common and should be available from any electronics supply.

earwig

Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #153 on: Yesterday at 11:10 am »
Thanks Ill look into the Neotech wires. So the shield its just plain copper braid hmm . I have also these two feet pieces of red n white military lab surplus coax wire that was hooked up to this weird tube thing .Solid core silver plate thick 16 guage Teflon center and double layers of silver plated copper braid outside Teflon red and a white version . Sounds excellent and increased the power of the signal. Made an open big clear punchier soundstage  :green: great way to recycle

Escott1377

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #154 on: Yesterday at 02:54 pm »
I have used this when building phono wires - pretty easy to work with.

http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/cable-sleeving-copper-braid-c-157_160_439

rotarius

Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #155 on: Today at 12:33 am »
There seems to be errors in the 8412 metric datasheet.  It even lists the insulation as FEP which is not the case.  I looked at the Belden 8412 English datasheet on Allied electronics and that one matches the English 8402 datasheet.   Conversion to metric will get you at times :icon_lol:
 

Speedskater

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Re: Belden 8402 IC
« Reply #156 on: Today at 01:14 am »
The printed US Belden datasheet has had that error for decades. (but then, I don't have a current printed catalog)