[roscoeiii]

Tone wasn't as much an issue compared to the ncore. Instead it was detail,  air and front to back 3D imaging where the ncore shined.

But I really view this as a synergy issue. Ncore is magic in his system in a way it wasn't in mine. and XLS does great things I thought not possible at its price.

So we have some combo of system synergy and you get what you pay for. Both amps astound for what they cost, but the extra money that ncore amps cost does seem to give something extra at least in some systems.

[Tomy2Tone]

Thanks Jack for the great review! I'm glad you were able to give the crown a chance to settle in your system and thanks to roscoeiii have the ability to see what a conditioner can do for it. No worries on the cedar rings, I have too many of them to count now. 

Roscoeiii-

If you wouldn't mind, can you talk a little more of how the ncore sounds a little different in your system vs Jacks? Just curious as to what factors are different in your setup as opposed to Jacks.

[a.wayne]

Thanks for the update Jackman, especially details on the setup .......

[roscoeiii]

Thanks Jack for the great review! I'm glad you were able to give the crown a chance to settle in your system and thanks to roscoeiii have the ability to see what a conditioner can do for it. No worries on the cedar rings, I have too many of them to count now. 

Roscoeiii-

If you wouldn't mind, can you talk a little more of how the ncore sounds a little different in your system vs Jacks? Just curious as to what factors are different in your setup as opposed to Jacks.

Don't have it inserted in my system yet. Had a concert to go to last night. I will be trying the XLS with my Von Schweikert VR-4s, Black Moon Audio Fidelity One (pair pictured in this review: http://www.stereotimes.com/post/black-moon-audio-fidelity-one-loudspeaker )  and SP Tech Minis, and (if they get here in time) maybe my new big-boy speakers that will remain unnamed since I don't want to jinx it. My guess is that the Von Schweikerts will be the best pairing, but only one way to find out.

[WireNut]

I don’t see how a digital switching amp at 11 pounds can deliver powerful bass compared to an amp that has large amounts of energy on tap at all times.

[G Georgopoulos]

I don’t see how a digital switching amp at 11 pounds can deliver powerful bass compared to an amp that has large amounts of energy on tap at all times.

class-d are killer amplifiers,lot's of power for bass...

[OzarkTom]

Jack has proven something for me, power conditioners even makes the Ncores sound better.

The cryo amp should be at Roscoes next week, if it goes as normal, the amp should be at least 30% better. But we shall see.

[Folsom]

I don’t see how a digital switching amp at 11 pounds can deliver powerful bass compared to an amp that has large amounts of energy on tap at all times.

The SPL probably wouldn't be different, but perceived bass will be quiet different.

Current won't dump if it's not told too, and feedback may not be enough or in a way that works for the attack and decay that'll give you the perception of serious bass.

The XLS dampening factor is probably way higher than most amps that have larger capacitance in them. Also lots of capacitance doesn't always feature the speed needed. In big powerful class A amps with bass you're hearing a lot of straight from the wall power (through an oversized transformer), that's fast.

[Folsom]

Jack has proven something for me, power conditioners even makes the Ncores sound better.

The cryo amp should be at Roscoes next week, if it goes as normal, the amp should be at least 30% better. But we shall see.

I'd expect a transformer to be bad for the Ncore, but other conditioners might be just fine. I mean some are parallel so they can't limit dynamics, for example.

[Tomy2Tone]

Don't have it inserted in my system yet. Had a concert to go to last night. I will be trying the XLS with my Von Schweikert VR-4s, Black Moon Audio Fidelity One (pair pictured in this review: http://www.stereotimes.com/post/black-moon-audio-fidelity-one-loudspeaker )  and SP Tech Minis, and (if they get here in time) maybe my new big-boy speakers that will remain unnamed since I don't want to jinx it. My guess is that the Von Schweikerts will be the best pairing, but only one way to find out.

Hey roscoeiii, I was actually referring to the Ncore amp. If you get a chance, I was just curious if you could elaborate on what the Ncore does in your system vs what it does in Jacks. No big deal if you don't wanna.

[roscoeiii]

Hey roscoeiii, I was actually referring to the Ncore amp. If you get a chance, I was just curious if you could elaborate on what the Ncore does in your system vs what it does in Jacks. No big deal if you don't wanna.

Been a while since I got to try the ncore. I will try to find my comments on the tour thread. But IIRC, the ncore felt a bit lean on my VR-4s compared to the Rogue Stereo 90 that I am currently using. Stereo 90 had more oomph and fullness. And may have been a bit more forward, which the VR 4s need for my tastes.

[roscoeiii]

My impressions from the ncore tour:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.msg1106866;topicseen#msg1106866

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.msg1106874#msg1106874

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.msg1111098#msg1111098

[jackman]

This is a very interesting thread. I would definitely look very closely at this series of amps from Crown, if I was looking for a new subwoofer amp.  It's amazing to see an amp that you can literally hold in one hand deliver this much power.

Also, the NCore did not improve with the power conditioner. It sounds  best plugged directly into the wall with no conditioning. The conditioner seemed to mess with the detail and overall transparency of the NCore. The Crown benefitted significantly but even with the improvement was very far from the performance of the NCore on in my system. Perhaps Roscoe will have a different experience in his system.  The SAS preamp seems to pair nicely with the NCore as well.

It was very enjoyable aging around with the new amp. If you listen to Rock or electronic music at high volume levels, the Crown could be all you need.

[dlaloum]

I originally purchased the XLS with my low end in mind (bi-amp) - but using it full range showed it to be better than any of my current amps in the highs as well. (obviously relative to the amps I have tried and the speakers that I have)
There are loads of people using these for subs and for woofers on biamp setups - for which these are ideal - the surprise is how good they are across the board...

Waiting to hear more comparisons with differing speakers - if the Ncores really show themselves superior across a range of differing speakers, maybe I will have to find a way to try a set down here where we walk upside down...

[roscoeiii]

Something was screwy with the set up of my  Von Schweikert speakers which I need to figure out. But with the Black Moon 3-ways the treble was excellent and I think the imaging was better than I heard at Jack's.

Compared to my Rogue Stereo 90, I think the XLS had more delicate treble, but not quite the same bass heft. Bass was solid, but perhaps the damping with the XLS was a bit much for those speakers. Great bass detail, but less impact and oomph. More listening to come, and hopefully I can figure out what is up with that Von Schweikert setup.

[roscoeiii]

So in summary, I think the XLS worked better with my setup than Jack's, but again, it doesn't displace my current amp. Which costs about 10x more, so that shouldn't surprise. The big question for me is how it pairs with speakers that like a high damping factor. All about synergy...

[guest61169]

If passing the unit around, make sure you take the time to go through the menus when you get it and turn all the unneeded stuff off, including the clip limiters (which are enabled from the factory).   

[Russell Dawkins]

If passing the unit around, make sure you take the time to go through the menus when you get it and turn all the unneeded stuff off, including the clip limiters (which are enabled from the factory).

Yes, I was wondering if the limiters might have been selected when Jack was auditioning, based on the comment made earlier about the sonic effects of this.

[roscoeiii]

Yes, I was wondering if the limiters might have been selected when Jack was auditioning, based on the comment made earlier about the sonic effects of this.

I'll check when I am able.

[jackman]

Yes, I was wondering if the limiters might have been selected when Jack was auditioning, based on the comment made earlier about the sonic effects of this.

Nope, I made sure the amp was operating in stereo mode, with no limiters, high or low pass filters.  This amp is super easy to operate and I'm 100% certain it was set up properly.  It was very powerful and drove my speakers to very high spl's without clipping and without issues.  It just didn't sound nearly as good as the nCore, even with high end power conditioning.  As I stated, this was on my system, maybe it sounds better on other systems.

Also, my comments appear to be in line with other people who have tried the Crown.  It's a bit steely, forward and 2D versus the nCore.  It still sounds very good and is a bargain for the $$$, but I'm not selling my amp any time soon to get one.  I may get one for my subs someday.