[FireGuy]

Update on the Super 5's:

Been running these now for approx five weeks and feel the need to provide some initial takes.   Fit and finish is superb...extremely pleased with the furniture-grade walnut veneer.  Edging and grain pattern very well done.  They fit my existing stands too, like it was made for them.   It took a  week or so to get used to the single-driver presentation.  My listening postion is more acute with these.  Although off axis is okay, I find I really need to be in that sweet spot...more than my Axioms required.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'll be surprised as to the dynamics of these 4.5" drivers.  So true.  Remakable engineering, these do provide some slam when called upon,  and with composure.  Highs are smooth and mid bass best I've heard and will confirm an authentic see-though transparency.  Like I'm listening through the enclosure.  Left to right staging is wide and wonderful; and getting better every day.  Image specificty is emerging, but not yet up to my Axiom M2v3's.  I'm figuring when break in is complete this will change.  Overall Louis has done a awesome job.  I want to do a side-by-side review of the 5's along with my Axiom M22's V3 when I have some time in the spring.  Kudos Louis.   Very very satisfied and highly recommended.  Next step will be SET amp.

[Canada Rob]

Image specificty is emerging, but not yet up to my Axiom M2v3's.  I'm figuring when break in is complete this will change.

Hello FireGuy,
Great review, but forgive me for focusing on the negative, but there is no way a budget two way will out image the Super 5, new or broken in.  I believe something is not quite right (I am not questioning what you are hearing).  It could be your room is interacting differently with the Omegas than with the Axioms, or maybe the Denon is not a great match for the Omegas.  Any of the RS5 based Omegas are absolutely nuts when it comes to all aspects of imaging.  Definitely a good SET amp will also help matters.

[FireGuy]

Hello FireGuy,
Great review, but forgive me for focusing on the negative, but there is no way a budget two way will out image the Super 5, new or broken in.  I believe something is not quite right (I am not questioning what you are hearing).  It could be your room is interacting differently with the Omegas than with the Axioms, or maybe the Denon is not a great match for the Omegas.  Any of the RS5 based Omegas are absolutely nuts when it comes to all aspects of imaging.  Definitely a good SET amp will also help matters.

Canada Rob - As to the imaging I think you hit it right on with the room interaction.  Ceiling is deeply sloped in one half of the room.   I'll continue to experiment with positioning and of course adding the tube amp soon.  I also agree a budget two-way should not "out image"  the 5's but I'm hearing what I'm hearing.  Although some of Axiom's products can be classified as budget,  they certainly don't perform to that description... and that's another discussion.

[DaveC113]

Imaging is one thing that fell into place with a SET amp for me, big time. It went from ok to speakers totally disappearing in the room. I think that is a sign if a good system, you should not be able to pinpoint the position of the speakers on a good recording.

2 way speakers can image really well, but if you optimize the system for a 2-way with separate tweet vs a single driver the single driver will win, hands down. The key here is optimize the system for the speaker, otherwise the comparisons mean very little. Your results will strongly depend on your choice of amplifiers so it isn't so east to compare these two speakers fairly. A SET will give the Omegas an unfair advantage while a more powerful amp will favor the 2-ways. For the most part... there are certainly many exceptions, like a good class A SS amp could work well for both. Anyway, just one thing to consider....

[pstrisik]

.....  2 way speakers can image really well, but if you optimize the system for a 2-way with separate tweet vs a single driver the single driver will win, hands down. The key here is optimize the system for the speaker, otherwise the comparisons mean very little. Your results will strongly depend on your choice of amplifiers so it isn't so east to compare these two speakers fairly. A SET will give the Omegas an unfair advantage while a more powerful amp will favor the 2-ways. For the most part... there are certainly many exceptions, like a good class A SS amp could work well for both. Anyway, just one thing to consider....

That rings true for me too.  I have a Dennis Had KT150 based single ended 10wpc and a CJ Pr11A 70wpc P-P amp.  My speakers are 87db sensitive 3-way AR2ax.  The CJ and ARs are meant to be together.  My soon-to-be Omega Super 7 XRS pair will undoubtedly be the mate for the single ended Had Amp.  ( I could call it a SET but it's a single ended tetrode, not triode, so it feels a bit misleading!  )

[CSI]

OK, back to audio. Louis thinks I will be very happy with my RWA Sig 16 and I'm sure he's right and I will never give it up. But there is always that tube temptation out there so I'm thinking of an alternative. Anyone have any thoughts on tube amps to mate with Omega 3XRS?

Update: The Single Driver/SET Thing. I'll attempt to be brief. About 25 hours on my Omega Super 3XRS. They sound amazing with the Sig 16 and, using the Sig 16 as a preamp, terrific with my Odyssey Khartago (a little mellower over all which is good, at least during break in). A Dared MP-2A3 SET amp came on the used market and I couldn't resist. Last night I got it and listened for 3 hours. Now, I have to say, "I don't get it". What I don't get is, what the hell took me so long? I also don't get why everyone doesn't just sell everything and settle down with Omega's or their own high efficiency favorites and an SET. A Dared or a Stereomour (could it actually be better?) or maybe something in a nice Decware. All the ravings you read are true. Especially the "back to music" comments. Are the speakers too forward in the upper mids? Are my preamp tubes causing harshness? Is the bass OK? How is the soundstage doing? All that crap just disappears from your worry quotient. It's, once again, all about the music and ONLY about the music. You can't help yourself. When was the last time your sound system made you grin ear to ear? Here is my (very rough) analogy for what it's worth. Have you ever wandered into a small club to hear a favorite performer and found the sound system to be perfect? No? Once you heard a few notes of the music did you really care anymore? No? Right! It was all about you, the music and the musicians. Live and together. The rest is mostly applesauce. That's the experience. I suppose I'll tube roll a bit in time but my heart is no longer in it. It doesn't seem important anymore. What is important is where did I put that old Stan Getz CD?

[DaveC113]

CSI, great post!

Now you can worry about all the little stuff. Coupling caps in the amp make a HUGE difference, as do cables, cable jacks, internal wiring, binding posts and attenuators... 

I have found my Omega Super 3XRS responds to every upgrade/change that I make and it's well worth spending some cash on the details.

[CSI]

Arrgh! OK. It is my main hobby, after all.

[pstrisik]

CSI, great post!

Now you can worry about all the little stuff. Coupling caps in the amp make a HUGE difference, as do cables, cable jacks, internal wiring, binding posts and attenuators... 

I have found my Omega Super 3XRS responds to every upgrade/change that I make and it's well worth spending some cash on the details.

Can you say a bit about how attenuators are useful?  Eg, between source and pre, between pre and amp?  Is it about impedance matching concerns? 

Thanks......Peter

[pstrisik]

Arrgh! OK. It is my main hobby, after all.

I heard a great line from an audio showroom salesman about the cost of the hobby...  "Some people spend their money and spare time on boats; others on audio."

[CSI]

Funny you should mention that. I've grown too old and rickety to sail anymore but I still miss my Pearson 424. It was a wonderful craft but the epitome of the saying that B.O.A.T. stands for break out another thousand.

[pstrisik]

Funny you should mention that. I've grown too old and rickety to sail anymore but I still miss my Pearson 424. It was a wonderful craft but the epitome of the saying that B.O.A.T. stands for break out another thousand.

.

           

.

........Peter

[DaveC113]

Can you say a bit about how attenuators are useful?  Eg, between source and pre, between pre and amp?  Is it about impedance matching concerns? 

Thanks......Peter

By attenuator I mean volume control, the best being a bent tap-x most likely, then a stepped attenuator using good resistors, then a potentiometer. ..

But if your SET amp has a cheap coupling cap, this is a key part to upgrade. It makes a massive difference and cheap ones can do a lot of damage to the sound.

[pstrisik]

By attenuator I mean volume control, the best being a bent tap-x most likely, then a stepped attenuator using good resistors, then a potentiometer. ..

But if your SET amp has a cheap coupling cap, this is a key part to upgrade. It makes a massive difference and cheap ones can do a lot of damage to the sound.

I see, thanks.

My amp is hand built by Dennis Had.  I trust his judgment in choice of parts, though I will take a look inside and see if I can discern anything.

Here's my ignorance...  do coupling caps refer to all the caps or just some performing a specific function?

[DaveC113]

Coupling caps join the input stage to the power stage of your amp, or are placed on the output of a preamp tube section. In both cases the signal is carried on elevated DC voltage from the power supply and the capacitor is in series with the signal path, eliminating the DC voltage and allowing the signal to pass.

The other caps that make a huge difference are the power supply caps, if you replace the last filter cap in your power supply with a Clarity TC series film cap you will see a huge improvement.

This was mainly for CSI with the Dared amp, but pstrisik, you could call the builder of your amp and ask about cap and volume control upgrades... the Dared would almost certainly benefit from these upgrades.

[CSI]

And thanks for the good advice, BTW. Judging by the appearance of my new/used Dared (essentially mint) I'm treating it as new. Once I get 100 hours or so on I will definitely look into the caps and other tweeks.