Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered

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Marius

Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« on: 14 Sep 2017, 01:31 pm »


A much anticipated project: All Maria Callas' 'official' live recordings meticulously remastered. https://www.maria-callas.com


https://www.facebook.com/WarnerClassicsErato/videos/10156567022503222


getting ready to push the Buy button, until I saw this:   


Playing with Audacity before triggers some thoughts about clipping, loudness and dynamic range here. Should we be worried?
especially if you compare that with the original recording they show:



Cheers,
Marius


CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #1 on: 14 Sep 2017, 02:01 pm »
Marius,

The real Q is do you hear a diff?
If so, tell us which sounds better?
If not, then listen and enjoy!

cheers

witchdoctor

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #2 on: 14 Sep 2017, 02:10 pm »
Marius,

The real Q is do you hear a diff?
If so, tell us which sounds better?
If not, then listen and enjoy!

cheers

Yes I hear a difference and the MQA albums are better:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/discovered-tidal-master-mqa-albums/17975/147

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #3 on: 14 Sep 2017, 02:48 pm »
Yes I hear a difference and the MQA albums are better:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/discovered-tidal-master-mqa-albums/17975/147

completely irrelevant post.
has nothing to do with MQA here.

witchdoctor

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #4 on: 14 Sep 2017, 03:04 pm »
completely irrelevant post.
has nothing to do with MQA here.

Irrelevant to you, anyone with a Tidal subscription can now to choose to stream Callas remastered albums in FLAC or HIREZ MQA. Did you see the link? 41 MQA Callas albums including the remastered ones. Enjoy  :duh:

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #5 on: 14 Sep 2017, 08:21 pm »
Did you see the link? 41 MQA Callas albums including the remastered ones. Enjoy  :duh:

Maria Callas sounds great in any format, but least of all as MQA and MP3.
Oops....same thing.... lossy.....:duh: 

Marius

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #6 on: 14 Sep 2017, 08:42 pm »
Irrelevant to you, anyone with a Tidal subscription can now to choose to stream Callas remastered albums in FLAC or HIREZ MQA. Did you see the link? 41 MQA Callas albums including the remastered ones. Enjoy  :duh:


well, to be honest,
my post wasn't about whether you like MQA or not, or its availability on Tidal, it was about whether these new remasters have blown the loudness whistle or not. the graphs displayed have me worried.


somehow i get the feeling you've convinced all on Audiocircle you like the MQA offerings on Tidal, no need to repeat that on any topic here Witchdoctor ;)
besides, i like to hold and touch these new discs, browse them with my fingers and flip their sides. Turn and caress the booklet-pages and smell the print. So long for Tidal.... There so much more in music for me then mere calculations.


Cheerio,
Marius

zoom25

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #7 on: 14 Sep 2017, 08:56 pm »
Only the music makers can do this as they have the masters, but it would be good to try out any track:

1) 24/96 or 24/192 or 24/44.1 WAV as is

2) The 16/44.1 WAV made from the above #1

3) The MQA made from the #1 master

4) Music recorded in MQA directly.

Currently, all/most of the MQA is made from the WAV master. We don't have #4.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #8 on: 15 Sep 2017, 01:35 am »
Only the music makers can do this as they have the masters, but it would be good to try out any track:

1) 24/96 or 24/192 or 24/44.1 WAV as is

2) The 16/44.1 WAV made from the above #1

3) The MQA made from the #1 master

4) Music recorded in MQA directly.

Currently, all/most of the MQA is made from the WAV master. We don't have #4.

I thought you hated MQA??
"Burn it with fire".
 :scratch: :lol:

Anonamemouse

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #9 on: 16 Sep 2017, 11:01 am »

A much anticipated project: All Maria Callas' 'official' live recordings meticulously remastered. https://www.maria-callas.com


https://www.facebook.com/WarnerClassicsErato/videos/10156567022503222


getting ready to push the Buy button, until I saw this:   


Playing with Audacity before triggers some thoughts about clipping, loudness and dynamic range here. Should we be worried?
especially if you compare that with the original recording they show:



Cheers,
Marius
:o
I would never spend my money on waveforms that look like that. This is brickwalled at Metallica's Death Magnetic level. My suggestion would be to chase down the oldest japanese cd version you can find, preferably pre 1990. That will sound the best.

Even the EMI version will have audible clipping...

Edit, I just looked at the comments at the facebook page you posted. Trust me, these people heard this remastered version in their car, and not on a decent sound system.

witchdoctor

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #10 on: 17 Sep 2017, 03:08 pm »
This Callas album sounds great:

https://tidal.com/track/77029600

This one too:

https://tidal.com/track/76931573


Marius

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #11 on: 2 Oct 2017, 01:37 pm »
the other (older)  big Callas reissue discussed on the same topic. Ill stick with my old cd's and records..... for now, hope to resist the album art of the new editions


https://www.kirkville.com/the-new-maria-callas-remasters-good-or-bad/


Cheerio,
Marius

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #12 on: 2 Oct 2017, 01:53 pm »
the other (older)  big Callas reissue discussed on the same topic. Ill stick with my old cd's and records..... for now, hope to resist the album art of the new editions


https://www.kirkville.com/the-new-maria-callas-remasters-good-or-bad/


Cheerio,
Marius

Interesting article. Not all is what it's cooked up to be. 96/24? Sales gimmick in this case.

I think I will check out the EMI box set released a while back.

cheers

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #13 on: 2 Oct 2017, 01:57 pm »



CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #14 on: 2 Oct 2017, 02:03 pm »
From that same article --

 Robert E. Seletsky
Nov 20, 2016 at 1:08 am | Reply

I must apologize for allowing myself to be misled. As of November 2016, following two years of exhaustive listening tests and spectral analyses, I’m afraid I must agree with Andrew Rose (whose own work is still not to my taste): Warner’s ‘Callas Remastered’ does not seem to be a new mastering at all, but a retread of EMI’s 1997 ‘Callas Edition’ and 2002-5 ‘Great Recordings of the Century’–themselves re-EQs, by the same engineers who produced ‘Callas Remastered’, of Keith Hardwick’s first, and still best, 1984-9 digitizations.

The timings of the 1997-2005 EMI discs, with rare exception, are identical, *to the second* with those in Warner’s version by the same team when one subtracts Warner’s longer silences at the beginnings and endings of discs and acts–a physical impossibility for something supposedly redigitized from analog scratch. Moreover, the sound has nothing to do with the analog sound. It is re-EQed to be a harsh and boomy version of the ‘Callas Edition’, very fatiguing to hear, but with the same recessed voices. The LPs and the aesthetic of mono operatic recording in the 1950s–especially at EMI–show the forward placement of the voices with instrumental accompaniment, not the other way around, crisply but never harshly, presented. Spectral analyses shows the unfortunately chosen re-EQing.

Rose is right that, certainly in old mono recordings, there is nothing above 22kHz, making the 24bit/96kHz ‘HD’ remastering a red herring. That Warner claims 69 discs worth of material have been remastered from the analog tapes in such a short time is impossible to believe when it took Keith Hardwick five years. ‘Callas Remastered’ is apparently the ‘Callas *Edition* Remastered’. One should also bear in mind that in 1997, the only recordings claimed to have been remastered from analog sources were the recitals, but the whole series was done at 20/88.2kHz. So any stereo material with frequencies higher than 22kHz (and there is some) would already have been attended to; the 24/96kHz is cosmetic.

As for ‘original’ analog tapes, that too is a red herring, as the tapes were copied continuously for decades to send to various international EMI branches for the creation of new LP stampers. If the Abbey Road people used analog sources–and I do not believe they did in 2014–it would hardly have been ‘original’: it would be whatever tapes were stored in the UK. And surely, the Cetra material would lack original tapes, having circulated in the public domain for half a century. Warner owns Fonit Cetra as well as EMI, and the Cetra operas are most likely re-EQs of Cetra CDC-2 TRAVIATA and CDC-9 GIOCONDA, the 1949 arias CEDARized versions of Warner’s own 1999 ‘Il primo disco’. Photos in the book accompanying the Warner set show purported ‘original’ tapes; but we must remember that most recordings were made in Italy and France, yet the tape boxes seen are from American manufacturers, and might be anything.

Head engineer Ramsay (of Callas Edition notoriety) takes misplaced pride in revealing the bizarre addition of faked record roar between bands in the recitals and at the beginnings of Acts and discs, to replicate LP sound; he seems to be unaware that those of us who bought the LPs would have returned discs with this characteristic as defective. No other artist’s work has been subjected to this odd treatment on CD. Ramsay makes it sound like a new idea, whereas it was present in the 1997 edition as well. At least the errors, introduced in 1997 to Hardwick’s initial digitizations by the same engineers–to which I called public attention in The Opera Quarterly and elsewhere–have finally been corrected, but that’s really all the best this set has to offer. Warner evidently spent its money on hype, not real remastering; ironically, these discs are sold for super-budget prices, without the great essays by John Steane and minimal notes by others, and libretti on CD-ROM only if one buys the whole set. If I am wrong, it really shows these engineers in a very poor light. I still recommend the 1984-9 EMI/Angel digitizations by Keith Hardwick (which often sound better in EMI Classics pressings of 1991-4) if one cannot find, or has no means to play, the LPs.

Marius

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #15 on: 2 Oct 2017, 02:09 pm »





exactly.  :drool:   who wouldn't want to fondle that. compressed or not.... :duh: 

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #16 on: 2 Oct 2017, 02:11 pm »
^ I know. I have a strong fetish for orig jacket collections. The mint LPs are priced beyond reach, so....  :thumb:

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #17 on: 6 Oct 2017, 02:02 pm »
Hey Marius

Did you buy that Callas orig jacket box set? If so, do tell how it sounds.... :P

thanks

Marius

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #18 on: 7 Oct 2017, 05:39 pm »
Hey Marius

Did you buy that Callas orig jacket box set? If so, do tell how it sounds.... :P

thanks


No I haven't. Yet.
the reviews i've been reading weren't too forgiving, and the ones that are enthusiastic seem to be biased or rather new to Maria Callas....


maybe we ought to dl an album at Qobuz's to hear for ourselves and then decide?


Cheers,
Marius




Marius

Re: Back to Software: Maria Callas Legacy remastered
« Reply #19 on: 9 Oct 2017, 03:16 pm »
these 2 examples add to my worries: more hiss (louder...?) and no real "cleaning up"
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/competition-win-maria-callas-live


Cheers,
Marius