Re-Examining Amp Settings

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Early B.

Re-Examining Amp Settings
« on: 9 Sep 2017, 12:35 am »
I have GR Research dual OB servo subs and I'm re-assessing my settings in order to get more bass out of them. My room is 13 x 20 x 8 and the subs are 3 ft from the rear wall and 1.5 ft. from the side walls.

Below is a pic of my settings. Any suggestions on how to tweak the settings???



 
And here's a pic of my system:






mlundy57

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #1 on: 9 Sep 2017, 01:41 am »
If you like everything else but just want more volume try moving the volume knob up to a 3 o'clock position.

Another method for increasing the gain to the plate amp is to get a Y splitter with 1 female and 2 male connectors. Connect the female to the RCA interconnect and the 2 male connectors to both the left and right inputs. That should give you 6dB of additional gain.


Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #2 on: 9 Sep 2017, 01:48 am »
If you like everything else but just want more volume try moving the volume knob up to a 3 o'clock position.

Well, it's not just more volume I'm looking for. It's like the bass is too "clean." Even when I turn it up, there's still something missing -- the power isn't all there. It's like stepping on the gas pedal and even though the engine roars, you're not going much faster. I know these subs are quite capable of much more, and I haven't unleashed their authority yet. I'm assuming it's the settings. I believe they're wired correctly, but I'll triple check.   

mlundy57

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #3 on: 9 Sep 2017, 02:16 am »
One thing I can think of is to experiment with the phase control. In my room it sounds best with the phase set at 0. However, my room is smaller and a lot closer to square than yours plus I have dome absorption and diffraction behind the speakers and absorption at the first reflection points and behind the listening position so settings that work in my room may not be the best in your room. Though it doesn't hurt to experiment.

Have you tried moving the subs around to see where the bass sounds best? Or at least try moving your listening position around (forward/back/left/right) even if it's just as an experiment to see if it is a room interaction issue.

Mike


WC

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #4 on: 9 Sep 2017, 02:51 am »
May just be the angle, but it seems like your right speaker is partly obscured by the edge of the couch. That could be an issue with your bass.

Captainhemo

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #5 on: 9 Sep 2017, 03:04 am »
I'm sure you've done  so already but the  extension filter and  damping can make  a difference.
Couches and other funishing can   create nulls at certain frequencies depending on how far they are from the   sub(s)... nulls suck, dealing with   a "hole" in my room
If you can do some sweeps ,  you may discover  a frequency range where  bass is lacking, then  you can at least  have a starting poiont to try and figure out  what the issue is

jay

Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #6 on: 9 Sep 2017, 04:15 am »
OK, I didn't have much time, but I moved the speakers back a few inches and angled the woofers inward. Then I fiddled with the phase, crossover, and volume knobs. The initial thought is that I'm getting more bass.

But as Captainhemo mentioned, I really need to do some measurements. I may have a black hole that's sucking out my bass.

gregfisk

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Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #7 on: 9 Sep 2017, 06:55 am »
Early B.

Didn't you have your amps modded by Rick? My Super V amps are set at 7 clicks in my 19' x 31' x 10' room and they totally fill the room.

I don't think it's even possible they can't do what you need them to do in your room unless you have them wired out of phase or something is out of wack?

They can over power my room in an instant if I turn the volume on the amps up just a few more clicks.

Shakeydeal

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #8 on: 9 Sep 2017, 11:10 am »
I would suggest trying the high level inputs. You will be surprised at how much better the bass integrates with the main speakers.

Shakey

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #9 on: 9 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm »
But as Captainhemo mentioned, I really need to do some measurements. I may have a black hole that's sucking out my bass.

Bingo. +100.

In modern times there is no reason to guess if your bass is perfect or not. Download REW, purchase Minidsp UMIK from Cross Spectrum (http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html), read Hifizine's Bass Integration guides Parts 1,2,3 (http://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/), then post your measurements on the Acoustics circle as other Danny Richie designed loudspeaker builders/enthusiasts have.

It's a lot of work but it's like riding a bike. You won't forget once you start doing it and you'll learn a tremendous amount about your room, etc...

Best,
Anand.

Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #10 on: 9 Sep 2017, 01:34 pm »
Bingo. +100.

In modern times there is no reason to guess if your bass is perfect or not. Download REW, purchase Minidsp UMIK from Cross Spectrum (http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html), read Hifizine's Bass Integration guides Parts 1,2,3 (http://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/), then post your measurements on the Acoustics circle as other Danny Richie designed loudspeaker builders/enthusiasts have.

It's a lot of work but it's like riding a bike. You won't forget once you start doing it and you'll learn a tremendous amount about your room, etc...

I'll admit that I've been avoiding performing measurements approach for the past three years because all of this technical stuff makes my head spin. WTF is a waterfall graph???  Nevertheless, it's time to do it. I'll purchase the Minidsp UMIK shortly. In the meantime, I'll read up on what to do. Once I start, I'll post my results on AC so you guys can walk me through the process.



rollo

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Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #11 on: 9 Sep 2017, 03:20 pm »
I have GR Research dual OB servo subs and I'm re-assessing my settings in order to get more bass out of them. My room is 13 x 20 x 8 and the subs are 3 ft from the rear wall and 1.5 ft. from the side walls.

Below is a pic of my settings. Any suggestions on how to tweak the settings???



 
And here's a pic of my system:



   Nice wood room. Really cozy looking. Enjoy !! YES do try the high level in you will be surprised in a good way. Subs as shown should be set "in phase". Also play with crossover settings. Try by ear first then confirm with measurements.

charles

mlundy57

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #12 on: 9 Sep 2017, 04:47 pm »
   Nice wood room. Really cozy looking. Enjoy !! YES do try the high level in you will be surprised in a good way. Subs as shown should be set "in phase". Also play with crossover settings. Try by ear first then confirm with measurements.

charles

By set "in phase" do you mean the phase control set to 0 or do you mean wired in-phase?

As far as the wiring goes, since one driver is facing forward and the other one to the rear both the driver and servo coils need to be wired out of phase. With the drivers facing opposite directions like this, if the driver coils are wired in-phase the output will be considerably reduced. 

However, the one time I did that the output was so low it was obvious something was way wrong right away. Since these have been playing for awhile it's not likely they are wired incorrectly. It doesn't hurt to check but as Jay and others have suggested, my money would be on room nodes/interactions.

Mike

jimbones

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #13 on: 9 Sep 2017, 05:26 pm »
Earl,

can you provide some detail about the toppers? What is your XO frequency? I notice your settings on the amp but I find it difficult to get my toppers to get down to 175hz. do you use active XO and boost on the toppers? I have a small notch in frequency response 150 to 200 hz.

Odal3

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Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #14 on: 9 Sep 2017, 05:57 pm »
In addition to all the great advice already given, check the source component as well to make sure you don't have a setting that may filter out the low end.

To my ears, sometimes "analytical"/clean sounding DACs can also come across as shy on bass. Not sure about your setup but if the other recommended options doesn't help, you may want to try some trial and error with a different source.

I have the HX300 amp with my dual H frames (so not exactly the same as you) but I definitely hear a difference with the bass depending on which DAC I use. For one of my DACs, I have the same experience as you and it doesn't matter how much I increase the settings, it doesn't feel like all the bass is there even though overall volume is higher. Perhaps it is just too "clean" for my liking. Same settings but different DAC (and volume confirmed with REW), and it is all good.

I have also recently had the opportunity to put a small buffer after the DAC, and that definitely helped improve the bass as well!

Hope you can get it dialed in to your liking

jimbones

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #15 on: 9 Sep 2017, 06:51 pm »
Earl, is that copper on the toppers?they look gorgeous. Floors are nice too  8)

Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #16 on: 9 Sep 2017, 08:15 pm »
Earl, is that copper on the toppers?they look gorgeous. Floors are nice too  8)

Yeah, copper leaf. Here's the detail on the monitors:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138878.msg1478779#msg1478779


Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #17 on: 9 Sep 2017, 08:19 pm »
In addition to all the great advice already given, check the source component as well to make sure you don't have a setting that may filter out the low end.

To my ears, sometimes "analytical"/clean sounding DACs can also come across as shy on bass. Not sure about your setup but if the other recommended options doesn't help, you may want to try some trial and error with a different source.

OK, I'll use what I have - a CD player. I'll unplug the transport and DAC and try the CD player. At least this will tell me if my issue is component-related. I'll report back shortly.

Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #18 on: 9 Sep 2017, 08:21 pm »
As far as the wiring goes, since one driver is facing forward and the other one to the rear both the driver and servo coils need to be wired out of phase. With the drivers facing opposite directions like this, if the driver coils are wired in-phase the output will be considerably reduced. 

Yeah, I went through that a couple of years ago and corrected it. I had them wired out of phase for a few days.

Early B.

Re: Re-Examining Amp Settings
« Reply #19 on: 9 Sep 2017, 08:28 pm »
YES do try the high level in you will be surprised in a good way.

I'm not sure how to wire them using the high level inputs. Do I need to fashion a set of speaker cables for the plate amp end and an RCA on the preamp end????