Balanced power amplifier

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I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #60 on: 8 May 2017, 12:24 am »
It seems to me that older models used soldered-in tubes, but I see this model has socketed tubes.  (I know they're small signal tubes that likely wouldn't need replacement, but they are tubes and it's certainly possible some could require replacement due to noise or failure).

Ample capacitance (80K uF/channel) and 10W in Class A.  It's not balanced though, is that still a requirement?

Steve

Steve, some of their models do use soldered in tubes.  I did forget that he want's balanced.  But the Vincent is a great amp.  They make nice gear.  They have a higher end line that is not for sale in the U.S. unfortunately.

http://www.vincentshop.co.uk/

SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #61 on: 9 May 2017, 02:31 pm »
Thank you very much, as always!  :)

What an excellent idea from @RDavidson to use 3" thick Michigan Maple Block (I wonder if I will be able to find something like that home, in Canada...) and add the extra-firm version of Herbie's Big Tall Tenderfeet to it (thank you @brj)!  :)

@srb: Did you mean by "footprint of the XA30.5 is 19"W X 19.2" D" the distances between its feet?

@I.Greyhound Fan: I would prefer to stay with SS balanced design.  :)

What questions would you recommend me to ask Mark regarding XA30.5, please? I have no experience buying online, especially from the States...  :scratch:

srb

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #62 on: 9 May 2017, 02:43 pm »
@srb: Did you mean by "footprint of the XA30.5 is 19"W X 19.2" D" the distances between its feet?

No, just the chassis dimensions.  It would be nice if someone could chime in with the outside dimensions of the feet.  I had a component whose feet overhung the shelf by 1/4" - it still worked fine, but I would rather that it didn't.

RDavidson

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #63 on: 10 May 2017, 02:13 am »
Specs and dimensions are available online on the Pass site. They even have a basic dimensional​ drawing available for download, which is really nice. I recommend getting a maple block that is about an inch larger than the amp in length and width. The added size ensures you won't have issues placing the amp on top. The larger maple block also serves as a "bumper" in case someone gets overzealous with the vacuum cleaner. Better to hit the maple block than the amp.

Just call Mark and talk to him. It's very simple. There's no "code of conduct" for buying an amp in The States. Tell him what you're looking for and why. I think he'll agree it is a great choice and you'll be thrilled. He's very friendly and easy to talk to. Trust me. I'm a picky customer and he has always gone out of his way to work with me. Because of that (and the great products he sells), I have gone back to him several times without hesitation.

SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #64 on: 12 May 2017, 12:42 am »
I never believed tubes can be superior to transistors in Hi-Fi realm because they are "prehistoric", "archaic", etc. You name it...  :oops:

A friend learned I am on the market for a quality power amp, and was kind enough to bring his PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium stereo power amplifier over. I must confess this amp totally annihilated my Acurus A250: I have never heard my Monitor Audio RS6 giving such punchy, tight, well-articulated bass. Piano and vocals did really come to life as well. I was just moved into another level of realism with this amp.  :)

Am I imagining things or what? I am positively shocked...  :scratch:

RDavidson

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #65 on: 12 May 2017, 01:17 am »
The OP is looking for a balanced amp (ie. dual differential). However, I've run my RS6's with a couple of tube amps myself. One of them is essentially the equivalent of the Prima Luna you speak of. It is the Cayin A50T. It is made by the same company and has basically the same circuit, except for the adaptive auto bias. It is indeed a nice amp. I enjoyed the combo VERY much. The midrange was beautiful. Bass was OK. Highs were OK. I'm sure those aspects can be improved with better tubes. I also tried a Conrad Johnson MV-60. It is much more detailed and punchy than the Cayin and overall a better amp with better resolution. I've owned many SS amps too : Belles, McCormack, Bryston (ST series) to name just a few of the good ones. But later came the First Watt M2 and my expectations for what solid state could do were completely blown out of the water. And the M2 isn't even one of Nelson's best / favorite's. I was hooked from there and have tried several Pass Labs and First Watt amps since then. I'm 100% certain there are others just as good in different ways as Pass (both tube and SS), but for my money, I'm quite happy with Nelson's gifts. Pass is an easy recommendation, and meets the OP's requirements. :thumb:

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #66 on: 12 May 2017, 03:57 pm »
SS, if you liked the sound of your friends Primaluna, then why don't you buy one?  Although I think that the Pass will give you what you are looking for and then some. 

If you really want to give tubes a try, you may want to look at the AVA Ultravalve Vacuum tube amp.  Van Alstine has lowered the price to $1599.  You could buy 2 and use them as mono blocks. I have heard this amp and it sounds great.  It has great reviews.  It performs way above its price point. And Frank has a 30 day money back guaranty.

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/ava-ultravalve-vacuum-tube-amplifier/

http://www.avahifi.com/products/power-amplifiers/tube-amplifiers/ultravalve-amplifier

I would also consider the Vincent hybrid amp that I mentioned if you have your heart set on tubes. Audio Advisor has a 30 day money back offer as well.

Other options are to go with a SS amp and a tube preamp.  That is the route that I went with my Pass amp and my BAT VK51se preamp with 8 tubes.


SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #67 on: 12 May 2017, 11:32 pm »
Thank you very kindly, dear friends!  :)

As @RDavidson noted, "Bass was OK" - not exactly what I am looking for in my next amp... I love bass! And, definitely: "Pass is an easy recommendation, and meets the OP's requirements." :thumb:
An interesting observation from @I.Greyhound Fan: "Other options are to go with a SS amp and a tube preamp." What a great idea! :thumb:

What balanced preamp would you recommend me to pair XA30.5 with, please? In another thread @I.Greyhound Fan noted "My BAT preamp sounds much better with my Pass amp then when I used a SS Pass preamp with the amp." Very intriguing!  :scratch:

SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #68 on: 16 May 2017, 05:04 pm »
Thank you very much everybody for all your most appreciated and really helpful info!  :)

(Im)patiently waiting for my XA30.5 delivery!  :)

Forgot to ask you a couple of questions...  :oops:

Will I have any challenges using my Audioquest Type 4 speaker cable terminated in Banana plugs?  :scratch:

In another thread @I.Greyhound Fan was kind enough to recommend Belden 8402 cable for balanced interconnects. So this problem is solved.  :)

Would you recommend me to change my speaker cable, please?  :scratch:

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #69 on: 16 May 2017, 05:18 pm »
Pass amps typically don't use Banana connections.  It is bare wire or spades at the amp end.  You could always cut off the banana plugs on the amp end. 

Otherwise, bluejeans cable makes some nice wire.  I use their 10g bare wire and terminated it myself with their connectors.  I prefer higher gauge wire like 10 or 12 gauge with high current amps and inefficient speakers.  Your AQ is 15g and should be fine.

If you decide to get some cable from BJ's, and you go with spades on the amp end, make sure you buy the Flat Spades, not the angled.  Only  Flat Spades will fit as the wing nuts on the binding posts get in the way.  That is my one complaint about Pass amps.  I think that Nelson Pass prefers bare end speaker wire.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

brj

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #70 on: 16 May 2017, 06:16 pm »
Are you thinking of the 30.8 with its new binding posts, perhaps?   I used to use Straley speaker cables with angled spades, and it worked fine - though it was slightly awkward to hand tighten the posts given how stiff the cables were and the close spacing of the binding posts.  No "wing nuts" on the 30.5 posts...

(I really need to sell some of my Straleys.  I'm still using one set in a second system, but have 2 additional pairs that deserve a more productive home.  Gotta find some rainy weekend to clean out the gear closet...)

srb

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #71 on: 16 May 2017, 06:17 pm »
Pass amps typically don't use Banana connections.  It is bare wire or spades at the amp end.  You could always cut off the banana plugs on the amp end.

The XAxx.5 amplifiers use standard 5-way binding posts which includes the use of banana plugs.  Just pop out the plastic center protective cap.

Audioquest usually uses BFA style plugs which is my preference.  Some like the locking type with expanding split center pin, but both of these in my opinion are preferable to standard banana plugs.

Steve

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #72 on: 16 May 2017, 08:31 pm »
Thanks for the correction Steve.

RDavidson

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #73 on: 17 May 2017, 01:44 am »
The XAxx.5 amplifiers use standard 5-way binding posts which includes the use of banana plugs.  Just pop out the plastic center protective cap.

Audioquest usually uses BFA style plugs which is my preference.  Some like the locking type with expanding split center pin, but both of these in my opinion are preferable to standard banana plugs.

Steve

The plastic center plug can be tricky to remove because they also have a metal (brass?) pin holding them (seemingly permanently) in place. This is for Euro safety standards. I've used a tiny screwdriver to push the metal pin out. The pin is maybe a millimeter in diameter. After this is done, then the plastic center plug can be easily removed. I don't think the .8 series has this type of plug/pin situation, if I recall correctly.

srb

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #74 on: 17 May 2017, 02:31 am »
The Pass .8 series amplifiers also have 5-way binding posts from the Furutech Torque Guard series.  The posts have a spring torsion ratcheting mechanism to provide consistent pressure against spade connectors without over-tightening, but they also accept banana plugs.

There does not appear to be any safety protection caps for the banana plug opening.

Steve

SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #75 on: 23 May 2017, 12:21 am »
As always, thank you all very kindly for your most appreciated help!  :)

@I.Greyhound Fan mentioned "I prefer higher gauge wire like 10 or 12 gauge with high current amps and inefficient speakers.  Your AQ is 15g and should be fine."  :)

Should Monitor Audio RS6 speakers be considered inefficient?  :scratch:

Could somebody please give me an idea of the difference between my 10-foot pair of AudioQuest Type 4 Speaker cables each cable using two 17-gauge and two 20-gauge conductors, which is equivalent to two 15AWG wires, and a two-conductor cable like Belden 5T00UP (2 x 10 AWG) from Blue Jeans Cable working with XA30.5?  :scratch:

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #76 on: 23 May 2017, 01:05 am »
Your speakers are very efficient.  Your cables are fine.  I prefer heavier gauge wire for high current amps and inefficient speakers like my maggies.   My Pass manual recommends heavy gauge wire as well.

Stop worrying about things and enjoy the amp, then tinker.  It really is not complicated.  You are going to love the sound.

RDavidson

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #77 on: 23 May 2017, 02:23 am »
+1 I.Greyhoundfan.

SoundSound, I hate to say it, but you're borderline OCD, man. Seriously. I think we've answered ALL your questions one way or another with great information. If you've done research on your own (as I think you have), you should be able to fill-in a lot of the blanks. You need to give your mind a break as well as these threads. Get your amp. Set it up. Listen to it and go from there.

SoundSound

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Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #78 on: 23 May 2017, 01:49 pm »
Thank you, my dear friends!  :)

I feel like I know you guys for ages...  :)

Yes, you are right, @RDavidson, I am "borderline OCD"... What can I say?  :oops:

It is the first truly High-End amp I am expecting at my doorstep on Thursday: nervous, worried a bit too how it is going to survive the trip, etc. Again, thank you very kindly for your support, and understanding!  :)

RE trigger cable to turn XA30.5 On/Off Standby using my Primare PRE30 output for remote link. Just to make sure I understand it correctly: I can use a two-wire cable (something very simple, almost like a lamp wire), at the preamp I only need a mono 3.5mm plug and at the amp I will be able to use regular 1/4" spades. Please confirm if this is correct.  :?

This is exactly what I was looking for at the local shops, and found nobody in my neck of the woods has it! Could you please suggest me an online shop or DIY guy where I can order such cable from? Maybe even somebody here on AudioCircle?  :scratch:

Please help!  :)

srb

Re: Balanced power amplifier
« Reply #79 on: 23 May 2017, 03:36 pm »
Just to make sure I understand it correctly: I can use a two-wire cable (something very simple, almost like a lamp wire), at the preamp I only need a mono 3.5mm plug and at the amp I will be able to use regular 1/4" spades. Please confirm if this is correct.  :?

Could you please suggest me an online shop or DIY guy where I can order such cable from?

It doesn't have to be anything fancy - it's not an audio path, just needs to be able to conduct minimal low mA relay current.  Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/12-Ft-24-Gauge-Speaker-Cable-Plug/dp/B000XG5JS4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1495553673&sr=1-1&keywords=12-Ft.+24-Gauge+Speaker+Cable+with+1%2F8%22+Plug

 

Steve