[happyrabbit]

  This is what I worry about too.  Trying hard to keep it at least budget friendly.

It's too late for me...

[Devil Doc]

For $35 you can buy a moka. No Italian in his right mind would spend $500 plus on a expresso machine. What have you got to lose. Try one before you spend big bucks.

Doc

[Odal3]

Mike - How is the Gaggia Classic and Baratza Encore burr grinder working out for you?

I'm thinking about getting a Baratza as well but haven't decided which one yet.

[mick wolfe]

So far .....superb. The Encore is a revelation for me.  I was coming off a Braun my ex-wife picked up years ago at a yard sale. It was still sealed in the box priced at $5.  Not a bad little burr grinder that I much preferred over a newer Cuisinart. That all said, the Encore is in a different league.  My first experience with truly "tuning" the grind. On to the "Classic". Far, far superior to my old Gaggia Barazza. I've pulled more crema out of the Classic in the  last month than the Barazza kicked out in 8 years. One caveat must be brought up however. I bought a "refurb" Classic from WholeLatteLove. It came in like-new condition and worked beautifully for 2 weeks before I had to clean the solenoid/valve assembly. The PDF on this procedure can be sourced within minutes from WholeLatteLove. Fairly easy procedure, especially if you're mechanically inclined. Metric Allen wrenches, Phillips screwdriver and needle nose pliers are the tools needed. I'm guessing this issue might not surface as quickly if the machine were bought new....but I'm only guessing here. So basically 

[Odal3]

That sounds great! Thanks for the update. And sorry for calling you Mike...

I was looking at some refurbished units as well at that site.

[firedog]

For $35 you can buy a moka. No Italian in his right mind would spend $500 plus on a expresso machine. What have you got to lose. Try one before you spend big bucks.

Doc

Yes, they all use moka's at home and go out for espresso. There's a reason for that. It's called taste.
A higher end espresso machine is for someone who wants an authentic espresso at home.     
If you just want "good coffee", you use a moka.

BTW, I think my Aeropress makes better coffee than any of the many moka machines I've owned.

[firedog]

Well, it's only fair to tell all those who pitched in on this thread what I actually ended up buying.  First off,  thanks to all who insisted a more upscale grinder was a must ......even before the espresso machine. Sorting through all the suggestions was truly enlightening. Unfortunately, it became pretty confusing as well. After about a week or more of additional information gathering, (and further confusion) I decided to call one of the bigger online retailers for everything coffee and speak to a consultant. I thoroughly explained my goals and rough budget of around 1K for both machine and grinder. To my shock, he came back with two suggestions that totaled a shade less than $500. I guess he was trying to say that within my budget, these two products offer the best value....regardless of the fact they only added up to half my 1K budget. The beauty of this whole consultation was he made no attempt to upsell or expand my budget. So it must have been obvious to him I was only a semi-serious coffee snob. He bluntly told me to buy a Gaggia Classic and Baratza Encore burr grinder and enjoy. Yep, so I reneged on my claim that I would not by another Gaggia. Needless to say however, the Classic is far more serious machine than the Carezza. For those who stressed the importance of a decent grinder, you were indeed correct. I now feel I have a lot more control of the final coffee product with the refined grind settings on the Encore. So in summary, I'm quite happy with this fairly economical purchase. I know neither will elevate me to full coffee snob status, but they certainly took me several rungs upscale from where I was. Thanks again to all who shared their thoughts and knowledge.

Yep, good grind and decent machine more important than incorrect grind and good machine.

[mick wolfe]

Yes, they all use moka's at home and go out for espresso. There's a reason for that. It's called taste.
A higher end espresso machine is for someone who wants an authentic espresso at home.     
If you just want "good coffee", you use a moka.

BTW, I think my Aeropress makes better coffee than any of the many moka machines I've owned.

Yep....thats been my experience as well. My Moka coffee maker has been retired.

[roscoeiii]

So far .....superb. The Encore is a revelation for me.  I was coming off a Braun my ex-wife picked up years ago at a yard sale. It was still sealed in the box priced at $5.  Not a bad little burr grinder that I much preferred over a newer Cuisinart. That all said, the Encore is in a different league.  My first experience with truly "tuning" the grind. On to the "Classic". Far, far superior to my old Gaggia Barazza. I've pulled more crema out of the Classic in the  last month than the Barazza kicked out in 8 years. One caveat must be brought up however. I bought a "refurb" Classic from WholeLatteLove. It came in like-new condition and worked beautifully for 2 weeks before I had to clean the solenoid/valve assembly. The PDF on this procedure can be sourced within minutes from WholeLatteLove. Fairly easy procedure, especially if you're mechanically inclined. Metric Allen wrenches, Phillips screwdriver and needle nose pliers are the tools needed. I'm guessing this issue might not surface as quickly if the machine were bought new....but I'm only guessing here. So basically 

Good stuff Mick. I love my Gaggia too. And keeping up with backflushing will mean that you don't have to dissassmble all those parts quite as frequently. But you'll still want to put a regular cleaning on your calendar to keep everything running and tasting its best. For espresso machine cleaning, I recommend Joe Glo, more cost effective than most options if you get the 20+ ounce container.

Nice way to clean your burr grinder is to run rice through it occassionally. Keep running it through until the ground rice is no longer picking up the color from the beans.

[randytsuch]

On most new machines, the pressure will be too high, I think 11 bars, where it should be 9 bars.

I remember adjusting my machine when I got it, need a pressure gauge connected to a portafilter.  And you need a machine where its adjustable, but it can be adjusted on a classic.

I would also ditch the pressurized portafilter if you use it.  Its cheating to make crema lol.

Get a bottomless portafilter and you can see the shot as it extracts.

[mick wolfe]

Thanks Roscoe and Randy. Very good tips 

[guf]

I love coming to the AC for coffee talk. 

I cut off the bottom on my La Marzocco portafilter with a cut off wheel on the grinder and then polished it off. Totally looks OEM. it is a valuable tool to lean about your extractions.

[Odal3]

Realized that buying coffee/espresso equipment is pretty much the same as audio - the more you research, the more expensive it gets. I even saw a review mentioned spouce approval factor of the look as an important factor for the the purchasing decision. 

Here's a video showing the grind consistency for the different Baratza Coffee grinders (skip forward to 8:34) https://youtu.be/oDaHS4arZjU

[Cappy]

Realized that buying coffee/espresso equipment is pretty much the same as audio - the more you research, the more expensive it gets. I even saw a review mentioned spouce approval factor of the look as an important factor for the the purchasing decision.   

Yeah, high end coffee can be so much like audio. 

I'm enjoying this discussion a lot too.

I think after a few months I've been able to really dial in my Aeropress technique.  It's been fun.  One important piece of the puzzle I just nailed was getting the crema into the cup.  Fresh roasted coffee is key, like no more than 4-5 days old.  Luckily there is a coffee shop with a Loring Smart Roaster in town and a bi-weekly roasting schedule.

I just got a computer controlled Fresh Roast SR700 so that is my next step -- roasting my own green coffee with open source software:

https://github.com/Roastero/Openroast

I've also been looking at Espresso machines.  At some point I'll get a lever machine, probably one of these CT-1s:

www.strietman.net

Good WAF, huh?

Cheers.

[Philistine]

Cappy,

I started roasting with a Fresh Roast, I think it was the SR500, it died after about 7 years of good service and I replaced it with a Behmor.  The 3 downsides I had with the Fresh Roast were: the small batch roast weights, it roasted too quickly and it was difficult to reproduce a roast.  The too fast roasting time was the most important as this didn't give me the real nuances of different beans, the Behmor fixed this for me as the longer roast time allows the beans to develop more character, having said that the Behmor isn't perfect either - you can't roast Vienna roasts and the cool down is too slow.  Looking at the ability to computer control the SR700 this looks interesting, if you get the chance please share your experiences....it may fix some of the downsides I found with Fresh Roast air roasting and give the benefits that the Behmor gives.

I use an espresso machine (Profitec 700) and also been using an Aeropress for years, the Aeropress gets used for regular coffee.  I've tried making espresso using the Aeropress, along with developing good crema, and found the Aeropress to be a million miles away from producing a real espresso.  Thee YouTubers who present their Aeropress espresso's are delusional:)  So encourage your journey to get a lever machine if you want to enjoy a good espresso.

[Cappy]

Phil.,

Great information, thanks.  People seem to be happy with the SR700 and Open Roast software - the one downside left being the small batch roast weight as you mentioned.   But I'll report back on my Fresh Roast SR700 experience.  Upgrading speakers, I mean, uh, roasters, can get expensive. 

Yeah, Aeropress definitely isn't espresso.  I live in the PNW, endless amounts of good espresso here - I'm just looking for that OMG cup of coffee. 

But getting some of the crema in the cup adds additional flavor complexity.  Normally with the Aeropress the crema is lost in the coffee grounds when they are filtered.  But using the inverted method, and pushing the crema out via the regular Able metal filter, at the end of the soak period, still inverted before tipping into the cup, is working great.  It isn't crema city like an excellent espresso, but the small amounts of crema help. 

I'm going to try this Aeropress add-on device soon to try to make crema extraction a bit easier:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/RUV6FHVCD/crema-attachment-for-aeropress

P.S. Your Profitec looks amazing.  Really good WAF!  Better than my speakers, for sure, which my wife tolerates.

[guf]

  I've tried making espresso using the Aeropress, along with developing good crema, and found the Aeropress to be a million miles away from producing a real espresso.  Thee YouTubers who present their Aeropress espresso's are delusional:)  So encourage your journey to get a lever machine if you want to enjoy a good espresso.

Yeah I agree 100%. Areopress makes a great coffee beverage, but it's not espresso. I love what it makes and often use it instead of a chemex or pourover.

This seems to be a roaster that was getting a lot of attention a year or 2 ago. http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/new-huky-500t-is-now-available-t35152.html. I love the Behmor products, roaster and coffee machine,  but I lust after that Huky 500t.

[Philistine]

I've found Malabar Monsoon Gold beans roast perfectly in a Behmor and a great match, one of the issues with the Behnor is that roasts can 'hang'.  To fudge this I roast 8oz of MMG on the 1lb setting, Program C, Profile P3 - then hit the cool down 2 minutes after first crack, this nails a great roast every time.  I bought professional roasted MMG beans as a benchmark to confirm I was maximizing the full potential of the blend...great flavor, smooth and loads of crema:

http://coffeeproject.com/shop/magento/raw-coffee-beans/pre-blended/india-josuma-s-proprietary-espresso-blend-malabar-gold.html

That Huky 500t looks dangerously interesting!

[ddark65]

Just bought a expresso machine a compaq 10 grinder
love it .

[Cappy]

DDark65,

Nice setup.  Did you look at the Compak E8 at all?  I would be interested to get your thoughts on comparisons with your 10...