AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 15 Aug 2017, 08:04 pm
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We've built one of the NX-Treme networks, now to mirror it with the 2nd. Somehow when we siliconed down the big foil inductor , it moved towards the edge a bit.... it should have been out further from the edge and more towards the iron core inductor. May have to slightly turn that iron core so it's better inline with the large foil. There is a lot of distance between them, the boards are 17" x 12.5".
All main caps are either Clarity CMR (red) or Clarity CSA (blue0. Bypass caps are a mix of Dueland silver and Jupiter coppers. Coils are all Jantzen wax/copper foils with the exception of the large iron core for the low pass. There's even a Dueland resistor in the LCR filter, they were on sale :lol: wiring is solid core Neotech OCC Copper 16 awg with the teflon jacket
Still a little sloppy but getting better with these. there'll be tube connectors for both inuts and outputs on these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167036)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167037)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167038)
jay
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Very cool, Jay. Those are serious. I really want to hear these.
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Dayum, thats a crossover :lol:
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please don't ever take those to an airport ...
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Have the issues with the NX drivers been worked out?
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Very cool, Jay. Those are serious. I really want to hear these.
We are too !! Cabinets are hung up in paint ...
Have the parts here to build out a set of "stock" networks as well (pretty nice parts count for a stock network) so at some point, we'll try and do an honest comparison
jay
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Cabinets are returning from the painters. Was a bit of an adventure but we've finally found "the guy". These cabients were sealed up in House of Kolor Pavo Purple sealers to prepare for the HOK Pavo Purple base coats. Once the base was laid down, the HOK silver / white marblizer was applied to create the Marble/vein effect. didn't want these to bold so next a couple coats of Violet Ice Pearl was applied to tone the marblizer just a touch. After that, an interstage clear was appplied before the final House of Koler clear coats. these things have a ton of depth and are pretty stunning to look at in person.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168575)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168576)
Keep in mind, these NX-tremes hav the same baffle width as the NX-Otticas inthe picture. The NX-Tremes is about 16" in front of the Ottica and the camera is obviously playing with the perspective somewhat. that being said, they are still BIg
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168577)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168578)
Hopefully, this one will be all fitted out with drivers and wiring tomorrow afternoon, we'll go grab the 2nd cabinet and get these bad boys up and running soon.
jay
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Ho. Lee. Faaack! :o Those things are gorgeous. It does look more subdued from a distance, but up close it looks like there is a lot of detail. Glad things worked out well with "the guy". Haha!
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Ho. Lee. Faaack! :o Those things are gorgeous. It does look more subdued from a distance, but up close it looks like there is a lot of detail. Glad things worked out well with "the guy". Haha!
It's exactly what we were after. The fact we were able to so easily convey to him what we wanted was cool, especially after what we'd already gone through with someone else
jay
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Jay-
Even without drivers, that tower looks awesome. Really demonstrates how much larger they are over the Oticas.
Thanks.
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Wow those look crazy huge! What is the combination of drivers? Only one tweeter huh? Cant wait to see them loaded.
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Wow those look crazy huge! What is the combination of drivers? Only one tweeter huh? Cant wait to see them loaded.
Here is a thread made during testing: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=145270.0
And this one shows the development of the NX-Otica and NX-Treme models: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138009.msg1528685#msg1528685
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Wow Jay, those are magnificent. Makes me wish I had a spray booth so I could try finishes like this.
Always curious about the process, do you know what purpose the inter-stage clear coat serves?
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Jay-
Even without drivers, that tower looks awesome. Really demonstrates how much larger they are over the Oticas.
Thanks.
That pic is not a a very good comparison at all, it's pretty misleading with regards to the actual size... will try and get a pic withthe 2 different speakers side by side today
Wow Jay, those are magnificent. Makes me wish I had a spray booth so I could try finishes like this.
Always curious about the process, do you know what purpose the inter-stage clear coat serves?
Yeah Peter, it is cool what these guys come up with, you've done some pretty cool stuff with those Encores yourselve :thumb:
John Kosmoski and the House of Kolor team are always striving to make their paints better, he's been a real innovator in the cutom paint world for a long time, some really good vids on You-tube of him doing interviews and demos etc.... I really enjoy watching them , interesting stuff.
The interstage clear is to promote adhesion to the Ice Pearl (afaik). It may have even been the House of Kolor AP01 adhesioin promoter, I'm not sure... next time I'm up there I'll ask.
Can spend lots of time loking at some of the HOK products here:
http://houseofkolor.com/products/?ref=topnav
and huge color / effects info here
http://houseofkolor.com/kolors/?ref=topnav
jay
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The interstage clear is to promote adhesion to the Ice Pearl (afaik). It may have even been the House of Kolor AP01 adhesioin promoter, I'm not sure... next time I'm up there I'll ask.
Exactly - adhesion promotion. Without that step the clear coat will bubble and peel off in corners. Percy said it looks like when you stretch a vinyl sticker too far into a corner; they initially stick, but eventually they bubble.
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Here's a couple more shots of the first cavinet still sans no-rez but pnow playing.
These are wired with Neotech UPOCC solid core 16 awg copper. (Teflon jacket) As some will know, almost imppossible to get it in different colors unless you order large quantities so it's all wired in red which was a bit of pitA but not too bad. We wired up one leg at a time and worked our way through the cabinet
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168699)
This one shows the size difference between the NX_ottica and NX-Treme in a better perspective .
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168700)
It's pretty difficult to make any real comments at this pint other than it sounds really good. can't wait to get the 2nd cabinet done and hear them as a pair
jay
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Looking impressive :thumb:
Next time you need to ask for a design even taller - looks like you would have room for at least one more driver :D
Looking forward to hear your impressions and how they compare to the other designs.
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Looking impressive :thumb:
Next time you need to ask for a design even taller - looks like you would have room for at least one more driver :D
Looking forward to hear your impressions and how they compare to the other designs.
Don't forget, you have to be able to stand it up once you get it into the room :thumb:
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Ok, I tried to get some decent pics but obviously I failed, these just don't cut it.... hopefully someone else who popped by Don's to have a listen had better luck. It's hard to capture the marblized effect shown in the pics above... the cool part about these is they are somewhat sutble at a distance but when you get up closer, you really find out there is a lot going on
I've had a couple guys contact me asking about the differences between these and the NX-Otticas, they are obviously very similar in design with common drivers. One may not expect big differences..... and in the sound signature this is true, but in the presentation that assumption is just wrong.
These are big and they cast a HUGE soundstage.... always felt the Oticas did a great job but these are just on a different level. Yup, this pair does have signifcantly upgraded networks that don't come on the cheap side .... all clarity CMR/CSA with Dueland / jupiter bypass caps, Jeantzen wax / foil inductors, and Neotech UPOCC wiring throughout. They've also got the new GR Neo 3 tweeters which sound fantastic right out out of the gate ! they are easily the equivatlent of the serenity tweeters, maybe even better. the precision and focus is amazing.
We're only at about the 12-15 hour mark and they are just "off the flipping hook good{" :thumb:
They are being driven by a pair of K&K Audio 63CC3 mono blocks, an Allnic L1500 pre (everything Tx coupled) and a Mivera Audio digiatl front end.... everythign is upsampled to DSD 256 via an i7 7700 based server..
As these breakk in I'll udate a bit... we still have to install no rez and build some boxes for ehe c/o's..... all in due time.
Again, sorry for the poor pics, they are apparently hard to photograph
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168953)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168954)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168955)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168956)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168957)
jay
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Jay,
Nice work. With all those colors you should house the crossover in a see through Lexan box or something...enjoy!
Anand.
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Those look awesome! I'm just talking about the crossovers. They're as big as an amp! The speakers are like fine art. If I could afford all of those drivers I'd probably just slap a coat of duratex on 'em and call it a day.
Most impressive. :notworthy:
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Agreed - great job! There's just something about big speakers that small speakers can never quite replicate. I wish I had room for really tall speakers like that. And you made almost the exact same choices I made in crossover parts when I made changes to my Super 7's. They make a huge difference in tone and naturalness of the sound.
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I was able to get some pics - I'm not sure how much better they are than Captainhemo's, but here they are anyway. These speakers are such hard things to get a accurate picture of because they need a lot of light to show the detail, yet they give back such intense reflections since they're so glassy!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168996)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168994)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168997)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168999)
I'll comment at more length in a listening impressions thread, but I completely agree with Captainhemo's comments about these. I've heard the whole series now, and own a pair of MTMs, but these are on a different level. Obviously a similar signature with the same tweeter and mids, but man, the scale is HUGE! I commented to Captainhemo that the sound reminded me of when I went to visit a friend who has a dedicated theatre with 3 open baffle Linkwitz LX521 speakers, 4 massive subs, full surrounds, in a 22'x24' treated room (the experience that led me to discover GR Research, actually). Yet, we were in a big open living room with barely any treatment and stereo speakers. It was incredible sound, and they're still a ways away from being broken in.
I'm not listing my MTM's for sale or anything like that, but if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be building a pair of these.
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WOW Jay! Those look incredible, I am really digging that finish that you and Gaelen chose, very nice. Those are the first pair of Danny's tweeter I have seen in use, any noticeable difference from the BGs?
Best,
Ed
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Thanks for posting some feeback and your pics Gaelen, was a fun session yesterday afternoon. These things have a long way to go, very low hours on them at this point but very impressive thus far.
Ed, it's really hard to compare the new tweeters to the originals as these networks are using such different components than what we've used in the past. At some point, we do plan to build out the stock networks to do some comparisions. At this point in time, the new tweeters sound exellent, they are extremely clean and easilly equal the Serenity's I've heard.... possibly better I don't know yet. Would love to replace a set of the Serenity's in a pair of MTm's I have here to compare... may be in the near fuure. Either way, it's all good :)
Anand, yeah, I like the idea of some clear boxes , will have to see where it goes.
Tyson, I had used the original Clarity MR's in an amp upgrade once and was impressed by them. When the new C series of the MR and SA (CMR /CSA) came out, they seemed like a good path. We'll have to see where those Dueland silvers as bypas caps go on the high pass, time will tell. The Jupiters on the mids work well, been using them on a pair of Ottica's for quite some time now.
jay
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Cue the soundtrack for 2001, a space odyyssey sp
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Those look really nice with the finish! Congratulations on the build!
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Those are fantastic looking and fantastically HUGE!!! :thumb:
I'd love to hear them. Hey I know! You can bring them down to Dallas in May for LSAF! Yeah that sounds like a great idea! :green:
Mike
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All I have to say is WOW!
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Tyson, I had used the original Clarity MR's in an amp upgrade once and was impressed by them. When the new C series of the MR and SA (CMR /CSA) came out, they seemed like a good path. We'll have to see where those Dueland silvers as bypas caps go on the high pass, time will tell. The Jupiters on the mids work well, been using them on a pair of Ottica's for quite some time now.
jay
IME it takes about 500 hours for the Clarity and Jupiter caps to fully burn in. Never tried Dueland so not sure what to expect there. If memory serves, the thing that will change is just how open everything starts to get. The first 100 hours or so, everything is tonally beautiful, but a bit closed off sounding. If you think the speakers sound BIG now, just you wait! Haha :thumb:
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Great build job Jay. Your NX-Tremes look absolutely fantastic! I really like the paint color. It looks great ! Since the crossovers are so large did you have to mount them external to the cabinet ? Man, really wish I could audition them. The sound quality has got to be nothing short of amazing.
Keep up the good work.
Ron
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Jay its like the WAMMs of OBs!! Nice work
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Hi,
Looks impressive, as for x-over maybe using Minidsp 2*4HD maybe cheaper and more flexible.
Enjoy after you finish.
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this pair has actually been built for don and his wife to enjoy , they reside in their living room now. I'm just lucky I get to hang out there frequently :thumb:
Tyson, yup, understand the lon breakin times, have used lots of sc Platinums, Jupiter Coppers, Clarity etc. Not sure people really relate to just how long it does take , I'd totally agree that things just open up.... I often feel things just seem "easier' for the speakers when you get to a certain point.
Mike, man, dallas would be a fun time but 3400+ km's from here , 33 + hrs driving time . Don't see it in my crystal ball :(
Yes, external c/o's Ron . Connections were made with 5 sets of tube connectors ( 2 inputs on each netowrk for possible futre byamping, 3 sets of outs on each. Makes it easy if we ever want tot try active but we wanted these to use passive netowrks.
Jin, :beer:
ttan98, see above with regards to active networks,. If we were to try that route at some point, we'd likely be talking to rich (HAL) but more amps would be needed and not in the cards at the moment.
Need Don to get back into town so I can go back up there and listen some more, .
jay !
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ttan98, see above with regards to active networks,. If we were to try that route at some point, we'd likely be talking to rich (HAL) but more amps would be needed and not in the cards at the moment.
Need Don to get back into town so I can go back up there and listen some more, .
jay !
Your caps and inductors already cost you a fortune, Minisdsp 2*8HD costs $200 and digital amps are now very cheap many models to choose from.
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Your caps and inductors already cost you a fortune, Minisdsp 2*8HD costs $200 and digital amps are now very cheap many models to choose from.
If miniDSP's are how you want to implement your build, feel free to do so. Not everyone wants to go to active networks just like there are many folks who don't want to go to a digital front end, many peopole love their analog sources, many love their analog/valve amplifiers ... the list goes on.
I don't know a ton about the minDSP but from what i understand, there are far better digtital solutions out there. Yeah, they are cheap and i guess serve a purpose but from what I've heard, they can tend to suck the life out of music reproduction and that's not something we wanted to entertain. As mentined, if we were going to try anything active, we'd be chatting with Rich and I know of another fellow working on some new things.
As for the digital amps, yeah they are good, I've got a few myself but they're isn't where this system is going AFAIK.
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If miniDSP's are how you want to implement your build, feel free to do so. Not everyone wants to go to active networks just like there are many folks who don't want to go to a digital front end, many peopole love their analog sources, many love their analog/valve amplifiers ... the list goes on.
I don't know a ton about the minDSP but from what i understand, there are far better digtital solutions out there. Yeah, they are cheap and i guess serve a purpose but from what I've heard, they can tend to suck the life out of music reproduction and that's not something we wanted to entertain. As mentined, if we were going to try anything active, we'd be chatting with Rich and I know of another fellow working on some new things.
As for the digital amps, yeah they are good, I've got a few myself but they're isn't where this system is going AFAIK.
It is up to you how you want to implement your DIY, I have no financial interest in the Mindsp company, I use a combination of active and passive(yes caps and inductors) devices, Minidsp is one cost effective and yet flexible way and more importantly sound quite good. Overall a combo of active and passive give me that.
Really I don't want to intrude into your project but just to highlight to you that's all. End of story.
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"Need Don to get back into town so I can go back up there and listen some more, .
jay !"
Not without his monoblocks and I'm quite enjoying them. I'd give it a few weeks Jay :lol:
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It is up to you how you want to implement your DIY, I have no financial interest in the Mindsp company, I use a combination of active and passive(yes caps and inductors) devices, Minidsp is one cost effective and yet flexible way and more importantly sound quite good. Overall a combo of active and passive give me that.
Really I don't want to intrude into your project but just to highlight to you that's all. End of story.
You're not inturding man. totally get you were suggesting an alternate direction.... I was just saying it wasn't something we were looking at for a few different reasons
Not without his monoblocks and I'm quite enjoying them. I'd give it a few weeks Jay :lol:
Bet you'd enjoy them more if it were winter !
jay
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Are you using the servo subs with these? Also are they running as 2 ways or 3 ways?
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Your caps and inductors already cost you a fortune, Minisdsp 2*8HD costs $200 and digital amps are now very cheap many models to choose from.
My experience is that you get what you pay for with those. They have lots of features and tools that are fun to play with. They have their place in the budget audio segment of the market. But they spent nothing on the D/A conversion, output stage, power supply, etc. All of those elements are equal to that of a $50 CD player. So the effect is that the life is sucked out of the music. The sound stage collapses and is two dimensional. It is a harsh, edgy, digital sound that is hard to listen to.
A good quality DAC and a well designed passive network will put the performance in a different league.
This speaker is a world class design that is tough to touch with anything. Adding a MiniDSP would be like using a 8 track player from the 70's as your front end.
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Are you using the servo subs with these? Also are they running as 2 ways or 3 ways?
Hey tyson
Right now, we've got sloped midnight purple triple 12's (shown in my flat pack thread), there's a setof quads, possibly 6 stacks in the shop that will eventually be in the system. they are 3 way
jay
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Mike, man, dallas would be a fun time but 3400+ km's from here , 33 + hrs driving time . Don't see it in my crystal ball :(
jay !
Jay,
Why that just sounds like a good stretch of the legs, jest strap them puppies on the roof rack and head on down :jester:
Obviously I'm jest jesting ... :lol:
Would be interesting to listen too but that's not going to happen. :(
Mike
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Jay,
Why that just sounds like a good stretch of the legs, jest strap them puppies on the roof rack and head on down :jester:
Mike
There's always the open invitation to come up here and have a listen, nno moving of cabinets involved.
Just incase either falls through, here's a real brief clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEWxAq4ni6k&feature=youtu.be
jay
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There's always the open invitation to come up here and have a listen, nno moving of cabinets involved.
Just incase either falls through, here's a real brief clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEWxAq4ni6k&feature=youtu.be
jay
Jay,
I hear ya. My getting up there is about as likely as you getting down here. Anymore 4 hours away is all the farther I care to drive.
Mike
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These speakers sound great. Best I’ve heard from Jay and Don yet, and were still green when I heard them.
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My experience is that you get what you pay for with those. They have lots of features and tools that are fun to play with. They have their place in the budget audio segment of the market. But they spent nothing on the D/A conversion, output stage, power supply, etc. All of those elements are equal to that of a $50 CD player. So the effect is that the life is sucked out of the music. The sound stage collapses and is two dimensional. It is a harsh, edgy, digital sound that is hard to listen to.
A good quality DAC and a well designed passive network will put the performance in a different league.
This speaker is a world class design that is tough to touch with anything. Adding a MiniDSP would be like using a 8 track player from the 70's as your front end.
Yes I agree. As with anything in Audio, do it right or don’t do it at all. There’s many advantages to going active, but they all get flushed down the toilet if you must use RadioShack grade gear to make it happen.
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Is it completely wrong that I find myself wondering what both of these speakers might be like with ported bottom ends??
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Is it completely wrong that I find myself wondering what both of these speakers might be like with ported bottom ends??
Boxed bass, go back to room loading, and potential boominess..... Nay, it would be a backward step.
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I’ll be popping by soon to see if we can blow those drivers with this Icepower 1200AS and a bottle of whiskey:)
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I’ll be popping by soon to see if we can blow those drivers with this Icepower 1200AS and a bottle of whiskey:)
Sure, but I'm guessing you'll blow up from the whiskey before you hrut the spekaers
:lol:
jay
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Sure, but I'm guessing you'll blow up from the whiskey before you hrut the spekaers
:lol:
jay
No doubt or the whiskey bottle will blow up from the extreme SPL’s :)
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:beer: