[SteveRB]

Hey Guys,

I have a VPI hw-19 with a stand alone motor upgrade. The motor has started making a dull clicking sound. I can hear it through the speakers; only when I get up close. I took the housing apart and added more foam and tightened all the screws. But still a definite noise.

Any suggestions on a fix?

[Wayner]

Does the motor click with the belt off? Or better yet, how fast is the click? Some VPIs run at 300RPM, others at 600RPM. If there is a problem inside of the motor itself, the clicking noise will be very fast. If it's about once every platter revolution, there may be a nick in your belt.

Wayner

[SteveRB]

It is fast -- happens with the belt off. I have two belts and tried swapping them.

[Wayner]

Then you have a motor problem, internally. Sorry, but the only real fix is a new motor. VPI should have replacements for you, but you may have to hunt for an rpm rating. Or maybe they will let you send it in to get replaced/fixed.

It is a Hurst synchronous motor, as I myself have a couple of them, but it would seem that something internally has let go.

The bad news is that it happened, the good news is that it can be fixed, unlike many of the older vintage tables.

I'd give VPI a call ASAP.

Wayner

[SteveRB]

bummer,

thanks though -- I'll pull the motor and give them a call tomorrow.

[orthobiz]

My SAMA clicked soon after purchase, Mike at VPI replaced it. SAMA is 600 rpm.

Paul

[BaMorin]

Then you have a motor problem, internally. Sorry, but the only real fix is a new motor. VPI should have replacements for you, but you may have to hunt for an rpm rating. Or maybe they will let you send it in to get replaced/fixed.

It is a Hurst synchronous motor, as I myself have a couple of them, but it would seem that something internally has let go.

The bad news is that it happened, the good news is that it can be fixed, unlike many of the older vintage tables.

I'd give VPI a call ASAP.

Wayner

If it is a hurst 3001, or 3009 series motor, it may just need a drop or two of oil where the shaft exits the bushing..........that's quite common on the hurst motors installed on ARs

Give me an idea on which Hurst this is. If it's one of the above series motors, I can walk people through the motor, and re-setting the bushing.

[SteveRB]

The motor is a Hurst 600 rpm


I'd really appreciate a walk through of any how I may be able to service the motor at home.

[BaMorin]

The motor is a Hurst 600 rpm


I'd really appreciate a walk through of any how I may be able to service the motor at home.

OK, that is a 12 pole 3 phase motor.  Can you pop the bottom cover off that motor, and also show a photo of the top where the shaft and bushing are. From what I can see in the photo, it's not too different than the 3001-3009 series.  Probably the same simple fix.  Been fixing that tick-tick-tick-tick in haydon (xa) and hurst (AR and ES-1) for years.

[SteveRB]

Thanks.

I'll pull the motor this evening. The bottom is sealed pretty good but I should be able to work it open.

[SteveRB]

OK, that is a 12 pole 3 phase motor.  ... Probably the same simple fix.

We had a few emails back and forth and I believe that the issue is resolved. Below is the instructions for how I fixed the issue:

OK....there should be a brass collar under that brass locking ring. That has to be set to near zero up/down play. In order to do that, the bottom cover of the motor will have to be removed so you can support the rotor assembly from below.
 
On the motors on AR tables, the motor housing extends below the rotor. I use a nickel and a dime stacked to support the rotor. That should keep the motor housing from touching the surface and support the center bottom of the rotor. The rotor shaft extending out through the top of the motor should be 1/8th". I use a 3/16' deep well 1/4" drive socket and slide that down over the shaft to set on top of the bushing in that top pocket.
That should only touch the brass bushing without touching the pocket the bushing rides in. I give the socket a slight tap with a light hammer to drive that bushing further down the 1/8" shaft. re check up/down play, and repeat as needed. should you get the bushing too tight against the pocket it rides in, remove the nickel and dime. set the housing on a flat surface and give the shaft a slight tap from top. You should be able to feel a slight amount of play......very slight.
 
The locking ring may be what sets the bushing, or possibly  what keeps the bushing set. If the locking ring and set bushing are the same piece, follow the setting procedure and then re tighten the locking ring.
Oil it well.

It seems that there was excess vertical movement in the motor shaft that was allowing the rotor to jiggle a bit and cause a bit of rubbing and ticking. There is a brass locking ring that keeps the bushings set in place. The locking ring has probably never been tightened since it left the factory and slid slightly out of alignment.

Possibly I described the noise vaguely or inaccurately which caused the confusion among the other forum members above. I will keep an ear on the motor over the next couple months and update the post if the motor noise returns.

Thanks again for all the help -- I find these forums to be very helpful.

[BaMorin]

Generally the issues with the Hurst syncro motors are common throughout the line. On this particular motor, the set bushing and the lock bushing were the same unit. Sometimes due to the amount of debris that can accumulate in the shaft sleeve, dis-assembly of the motor is needed and the sleeve cleaned and polished. These are pretty simple motors to work on with little of anything mechanical to go wrong. Re-setting the top bushing every so often is not uncommon. They all do need a drop or two of oil at the top bushing regardless if the table manufacturer includes that info or not. With a little service from time to time these motors should see 40+ years of life expectancy.

Glad I could help you sort out the motor noise.

[SteveRB]

I do appreciate these forums for the knowledge base. I find it invaluable and would not want to alienate anyone who may contribute useful information. As the one who originally posted this topic -- can this off topic discussion please be moved to to a private message venue...

[Æ]

OK, that is a 12 pole 3 phase motor.  Can you pop the bottom cover off that motor, and also show a photo of the top where the shaft and bushing are. From what I can see in the photo, it's not too different than the 3001-3009 series.  Probably the same simple fix.  Been fixing that tick-tick-tick-tick in haydon (xa) and hurst (AR and ES-1) for years.

How do you figure 3 phase? On the bottom of the motor it states 115VAC 60Hz. It doesn't run on 3 phase!!!!! It's a 12 pole capacitor run hysteresis synchronous motor. If it had 3 phases it would have to have 3 capacitors! Look at the picture, the motor only has 4 wires. Two wires go to each set of windings. One set of windings where you connect the capacitor, to to cause a phase shift between the windings. I have a few of those motors, 24 poles for 300 RPMs. You are correct the bottom will pop off and then you can remove the armature/rotor and then clean and oil the bearings/bushings. HURST has a website.

http://hurst-motors.com/index.html

[BaMorin]

How do you figure 3 phase? On the bottom of the motor it states 115VAC 60Hz. It doesn't run on 3 phase!!!!! It's a 12 pole capacitor run hysteresis synchronous motor. If it had 3 phases it would have to have 3 capacitors! Look at the picture, the motor only has 4 wires. Two wires go to each set of windings. One set of windings where you connect the capacitor, to to cause a phase shift between the windings. I have a few of those motors, 24 poles for 300 RPMs. You are correct the bottom will pop off and then you can remove the armature/rotor and then clean and oil the bearings/bushings. HURST has a website.

http://hurst-motors.com/index.html

First up, sorry this took so long in reply as this site doesn't always load.
OK.......3 phase may be incorrect. How about multiphase?  The cap certainly changes at least 1 phase to 90degree out. So, we'll now look at what happens to the voltage across the 4 wires. The Blue wires are connected, so now we have three wires to check voltages. I'll use a 3W 3001-001 motor as an example with .25uf cap.
The values of the motor in question will be slightly different due to stator windings and cap value.
Wall voltage ....................................... ..     122.8vac
Blue wires to wall neutral ........................     116.2vac
Blue wires to wall hot .............................        6.5vac
black wire to wall neutral ........................     177.3vac
black wire to wall hot .............................     103.5vac
Red wire to wall hot ...............................     122.8vac
Red wire to wall neutral...........................        0.0vac
Red wire to black wire.............................     177.3vac
I see no less than three distinct voltage values.


Back to the main point of this thread, and that is repair of a basic Hurst syncro motor.
Generally it is dirt in the rotor sleeve, and a mis-adjusted set bushing. Most of my post was to that end.

[SteveFord]

Not that this has to do with the repair but 3 phase is for giant industrial stuff - like my old powder coating shop had (oven, monster compressor, spray booth).
Three phase is not run into houses - it's a big production to get the power company to install it, too.  If you look at the transformer on the power line's pole if it has 3 "tits" sticking up out of the top that's 3 phase.
Back our regularly scheduled program...

[Æ]

First up, sorry this took so long in reply as this site doesn't always load.
OK.......3 phase may be incorrect. How about multiphase?  The cap certainly changes at least 1 phase to 90degree out. So, we'll now look at what happens to the voltage across the 4 wires. The Blue wires are connected, so now we have three wires to check voltages. I'll use a 3W 3001-001 motor as an example with .25uf cap.

Here in the U.S. the mention of 3 phase is almost always in reference to the power arriving at your place of business or a piece of equipment designed to run on 3 phase power. I am familiar with 3 phase wiring and Delta or Wye transformers.
Residential house wiring is not 3 phase! I have a friend with a machinist mill in his garage, it runs off 3 phase. He has to generate his own 3 phase power to operate the machine!

I learned about hysteresis synchronous motors more than 25 years ago. These types of motors are common in any number of belt drive turntables. I pulled one out of a REGA, a very cheap motor. I still have one which I salvaged from a BSR turntable, which is a very nice motor. I also have a new old stock Hurst motor obtained from a surplus electronics store. I like the motor I pulled from the BSR turntable, it is well made, serviceable and it uses a very simple tempered steel spring to keep the shaft from dropping.

[BaMorin]

Not that this has to do with the repair but 3 phase is for giant industrial stuff - like my old powder coating shop had (oven, monster compressor, spray booth).
Three phase is not run into houses - it's a big production to get the power company to install it, too.  If you look at the transformer on the power line's pole if it has 3 "tits" sticking up out of the top that's 3 phase.
Back our regularly scheduled program...

Yeah, I know.  My shop was wired both single and 3 phase. All of my Hobart and Bridgeport equipment was 220 3Phase.

The alternator in my car is also three phase, that gets rectified to DC..........same as yours. Even though the bridge and stator has 4 taps.........go figure.

[Wayner]

These motors are built this way because they are reversible. Put the cap (and switch on the other leg and it goes counter-clockwise.

These motors where not designed for TTs. They were adapted for TTs.

Wayner

[Altanir]

Hello!

I hope this topic still has some life on it!

I´m new to the forum and after a little search I found this topic to be relevant to my situation. I live in Brazil and managed to buy a Demo VPI prime unit, made in 2015. Bought it online (music direct) and shipped it to Houston, TX (a friend´s house) and then brought the unit to Brazil after visiting him. The whole process (from buying from arriving to Brazil) took 6 months and yesterday I finally was installing it.

Then the unexpected happened: the motor won´t spin. I turn the power, nothing happens. Removed the pulley, brass ring, still nothing. Checked fuse, changed outlets (120V, 60hz), changed cables, opened the motor base to check the capacitor and wire connections (everything OK).

When trying to spin it by hand, I found it very hard to do it. As if the shaft is stuck! I can be hand spinned but not as gentle and sweet as it should be. The motor makes some loud noises also.

A replacement costs 299 USD (from elusive) or 99 (from Hurst - and I don´t know if they ship it overseas). Is there anything I could do to repair this motor? I´d really like to avoid the need to buy a new motor (there´s no warranty because I don´t live in USA).




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