Is digital really inferior to analog?

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Wind Chaser

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #40 on: 20 May 2017, 10:21 pm »
You old guys grew up on vinyl..."

53 ain't that old. And no, I don't miss it one bit.

Phil A

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #41 on: 20 May 2017, 10:50 pm »
You old guys grew up on vinyl, so you're gonna have a nostalgic bias towards the undefinable "vinyl sound." That's understandable. Personally, I haven't heard a vinyl system that sounded better than digital, even the mega-dollar systems at audio shows.

Grew up on it but got rid of my last turntable records over 30 years ago (and wasn't super young at that point) .  Vinyl can sound excellent.  Like everything else it is dependent and the source and the equipment.  No plans to even dabble it into at any time.  Quite thrilled by digital in multiple systems.

Wayner

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #42 on: 20 May 2017, 10:54 pm »
Digital music is like watching a movie. A movie is filled with still pictures presented to the eye (then the brain) and the brain translates it into something that mimics reality. That is why most people become very tired after watching movies for a relatively short time. Digital music is in the same order. The brain has to work to put it together, while its analog counterpart happens naturally...........

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #43 on: 20 May 2017, 11:06 pm »
All music is analog. Some of it ("digital music") may start out as digital, but the DAC converts that to analog signals which we hear as music.

BTW, the eye is a direct extension of our brain -- it is in fact, brain tissue. But unlike the cortex, the eyes do have pain receptors. Just saying.   :thumb:

AJinFLA

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #44 on: 20 May 2017, 11:33 pm »
So if one cant tell the difference one should just go with the cheaper product?
That's completely unrelated. The test is to see whether it's really the source/mastering etc that makes the difference. If one can't hear any, then the digital is transparent to the source, in this case analog playback in whatever form. Yes, you get the snap, crackle, pop and hiss. But that's the point. Cost is a red herring.
Most can certainly hear the difference between el cheapo vs expensive TT+ cartridges. There, going with cheaper product indeed has a penalty. Again, totally unrelated to the above test of "digital vs analog"

AJinFLA

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #45 on: 20 May 2017, 11:35 pm »
Digital music is like watching a movie. A movie is filled with still pictures presented to the eye (then the brain) and the brain translates it into something that mimics reality. That is why most people become very tired after watching movies for a relatively short time. Digital music is in the same order. The brain has to work to put it together, while its analog counterpart happens naturally...........
Hopefully you are joking

steve in jersey

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #46 on: 20 May 2017, 11:43 pm »
30 years ago I would have said that "Listening to Digitally derived music was a step in the wrong direction from Analog recordings". I couldn't honestly say I've felt the same way for several years now .

It really isn't a forgone conclusion that Digital will be at least as enjoyable to listen to as "good" Analog recordings,but the potential for this to happen is quite different then it once was. The funny thing is, is that some of favorite recordings started out as Analog mastered recordings. A good recording is a good recording, regardless of the format it's in. (By the same token I have a few "completely" Digital recordings that I think are the equal of any recordings I've heard)

Everyone's ears are slightly different in how they hear things.

Wayner

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #47 on: 21 May 2017, 12:35 am »
Hopefully you are joking

No I'm not.

Bendingwave

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #48 on: 21 May 2017, 12:51 am »
That's completely unrelated. The test is to see whether it's really the source/mastering etc that makes the difference. If one can't hear any, then the digital is transparent to the source, in this case analog playback in whatever form. Yes, you get the snap, crackle, pop and hiss. But that's the point. Cost is a red herring.
Most can certainly hear the difference between el cheapo vs expensive TT+ cartridges. There, going with cheaper product indeed has a penalty. Again, totally unrelated to the above test of "digital vs analog"

So if cost is unrelated , which one is better digital or analog?

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #49 on: 21 May 2017, 01:24 am »
If I've invested $x in my digital playback system, and $3x in my vinyl playback, I'm going to look first at a quality vinyl pressing if its price is within my means. Just sayin'. It ain't true (I'm mainly digital...), but $ is a factor, at least for me.   :roll:

srb

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #50 on: 21 May 2017, 01:25 am »
The analogy between digital audio and movies doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.  A movie has 30 frames per second to try and simulate continuous analog motion to the brain.  A digital audio file has a minimum of 44,100 "frames" per second to simulate continuous analog sound.

charmerci

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #51 on: 21 May 2017, 02:59 am »
With modern recording equipment and an effort in mastering, I have no doubt that no one could tell the difference between an analog vinyl album and a digital recording - if that is the aim.

I've said for years (along with others, of course) that the real "problem" with digital is more with the recording, mastering and the equipment used. If one doesn't like "digital" recordings, it's not the fault of the digital domain.

DarqueKnight

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #52 on: 21 May 2017, 05:46 am »
From a purely mathematical standpoint, an approximation (digital sampling) cannot be as good as the thing sampled. Digital is an inherently lossy medium. The question is, is that loss humanly perceptible?

The perceptibility of loss depends on many production and reproduction factors and therefore it's not possible to say one medium will be consistently superior in sound quality for an end user.

In my personal experience, I have abandoned vinyl playback for digital files. All my vinyl records were digitized to DSD single rate DSF files. The analog to digital converter I used, a PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter, offered the option of converting analog to PCM at 44.1k, 88.2k, 96k, 176.4k, and 192k. Analog could also be converted to single or double rate DSD. My DAC does not play double rate DSD, therefore PCM rates and DSD1 were compared, with DSD1 being the consistent winner. In every case when the LP was compared (A/B'ed) to its digitized DSD version, the DSD file had more overall clarity, more detail, more image weight, and a more three-dimensional sound stage. The bass impact, tactile sensation, bass articulation, and bass detail of the DSD file were significantly better.

To be fair, my turntable system (Ortofon MC Windfeld cartridge, Graham Phantom II tonearm, Teres Audio Model 255 turntable, Teres Audio Reference II motor-$14,654 total MSRP) was at a serious disadvantage compared to my digital sources (Bryston BDP-2 digital player, dCS Debussy DAC, dCS Puccini U-Clock master clock-$20,500 total MSRP). Undoubtedly, since the turntable was in the same room as my very large loudspeakers, acoustic feedback from the loudspeakers, and the room, had some effect on the turntable's performance. The LP digital transfers were produced in a quiet room while monitoring the recording through headphones. Therefore, there was no acoustic feedback to the turntable during the digital transfer process. If I were fortunate enough to have had the luxury of placing my turntable in an acoustically isolated room away from the loudspeakers, it's possible the turntable  would  have consistently won in a comparison to my digital front end. It is also possible that a more resolving (and more expensive) analog system could have overcome the acoustic feedback issues in the listening room and provided a better presentation than the digital sources.

Prior to the listening trials between vinyl and DSD files derived from the vinyl, I did several comparisons of the LP, CD and SACD versions of some of my albums. The results were mixed. Sometimes I didn't perceive a difference among the various media versions. Sometimes one or the other version sounded better in some aspects.

Prior to my vinyl digitization project, the best sounding recordings I had, in terms of image realism, clarity, and detail, were the Classic Records 45 rpm single-sided 4-disc 180 gram vinyl versions of Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" and Miles Davis' "Kind Of Blue". These two recordings sounded better than any CD or SACD in my collection, and their DSD versions transcribed from vinyl sounded better still, even better than the commercial SACD versions of these recordings.

It is inconceivable that I would ever want to return to the maintenance and operational inconveniences of vinyl playback.

AJinFLA

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #53 on: 21 May 2017, 10:26 am »
Digital music is like watching a movie.
False analogy. Visual and audio perception are very different. See 3rd from bottom link http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/jj.htm.

That is why most people become very tired after watching movies for a relatively short time.
Evidence please, not myth or anecdote, thanks.

Digital music is in the same order. The brain has to work to put it together, while its analog counterpart happens naturally...........
Evidence please, not myth or anecdote, thanks.

I don't doubt that there are a small number folks with conditions like photosensitive epilepsy (PSE) and the "digital" audio condition you describe, when some see digital. But folks worldwide in normal mental heath can see/listen to digital for hours without adverse effects.
YMMV

AJinFLA

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #54 on: 21 May 2017, 10:28 am »
which one is better digital or analog?
Whichever you prefer

Bendingwave

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #55 on: 21 May 2017, 10:57 am »
Whichever you prefer

Then I prefer the cheaper one.  :wink:  :lol:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #56 on: 21 May 2017, 11:30 am »
Hopefully you are joking
He should be referring to low grade digital as PCM32 or 44kHz.
The worst media I have listen was analog Cassette courtesy from Dutch Philips.

Wayner

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #57 on: 21 May 2017, 11:54 am »
False analogy. Visual and audio perception are very different. See 3rd from bottom link http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/jj.htm.
Evidence please, not myth or anecdote, thanks.
Evidence please, not myth or anecdote, thanks.

I don't doubt that there are a small number folks with conditions like photosensitive epilepsy (PSE) and the "digital" audio condition you describe, when some see digital. But folks worldwide in normal mental heath can see/listen to digital for hours without adverse effects.
YMMV

Lets see, you've dissected every word that I have stated (and those were my opinion) and then you refer me to having mental health conditions.

Nice guy (not).

AJinFLA

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Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #58 on: 21 May 2017, 12:03 pm »
Ok, so like the article author, you have zero evidence.
you refer me to having mental health conditions.
Nope, my comments were generic. Sorry if you saw some reflection.
Fact is, most folks can enjoy both, without any such concocted drama

mav52

Re: Is digital really inferior to analog?
« Reply #59 on: 21 May 2017, 12:23 pm »
After reading this article, who really cares.  You like what you like, that's it.
Looks like a filler in a magazine taking up print space for the month.. 


 Just enjoy the music