Townshend Rock 7 Initial Impressions

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 04:10 pm »

So what you are describing is better than what you remember it on the WT, or equal?

Shakey

roscoeiii · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 04:18 pm »

Both are such excellent tables that I can't say how it compares to the WTA without going head-to-head. So take these comments as what stands out in my listening to the Rock but DO NOT interpret them as "This is what sounds better on the Rock than the WTA" or "This is what the WTA doesn't do well." A comparison will come. But for now I am settling in with the Rock.

For that comparison, anyone want to send me 2 identical carts?

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 04:23 pm »

Quote

For that comparison, anyone want to send me 2 identical carts?

I can't imagine that you even need two identical cartridges.

The first weekend that I set up my Amadeus, it sounded so much better than my Spacedeck that there was no need to do a "head to head" shootout. The difference was so dramatic that I never felt compelled to put the Nott back in the system.

Now your job probably won't be quite as easy, as it sounds as if these two fine tables are more equally matched. That said, I never would have thought the WT would make the Nottingham sound "broken", because I had owned and loved that table for years. But it happened.

Shakey

roscoeiii · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 04:26 pm »

No experience with Nott, but certainly not feeling that it is a drastic improvement or step-down. Rather a matter of different emphases and strengths most likely. Won't know until I compare. And that won't likely be until after AKFest.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 04:58 pm »

The one clear place that the Rock beats the WTA is in its suspension. In my poor rack and in an apartment with springy wood floors, a heavy footfall in the right place could make the WTA skip. Doubt this would be a problem in a decent rack or if the WTA was on a turntable shelf.

But the Rock's pneumatic suspension (think mountain bike shocks) has been bombproof thus far. Not a single skip. I may get a record I don't much love (I keep Christmas records around just for such a purpose) and see how far I can go until the Rock skips.

jostber · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 05:09 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 24 Apr 2012, 03:46 pm

+1

What does a table like that cost, if I may ask?

+2 Certainly a nice looking TT.

Would also be cool to see the results of the skip test.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 05:11 pm »

As I mentioned above:

Quote from: roscoeiii on 24 Apr 2012, 03:49 pm

New with a RB301 tonearm is $3700. I believe that without arm it is $3200.

Here is the ad of the US seller who lists them on Audiogon:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/townshend-rock-7-rega-rb-301-tas-golden-ear-award--2

roscoeiii · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: jostber on 24 Apr 2012, 05:09 pm

Would also be cool to see the results of the skip test.

I think I will likely just write about the results of the skip test, rather than a YouTube video of me jumping up and down on my floor while Christmas music is playing. But hey, you never know. And something like that could go viral...

vortrex · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 05:44 pm »

how do you feel about having such a cheap arm on an expensive table? what are the other (non-rega) arm options and do you think it would make a significant improvement?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 05:59 pm »

I feel like the arm is what I can do at present. The RB301 came with the table so I don't have a feel for it apart from the table. But clearly that is the most obvious place to upgrade this table. One of the UK mags tried the Audiomods arm on the Rock 7 in their review of it, which has me thinking about that option (which may shortly be within my budget).

That said, other reviews have stated that the trough set-up makes arms less critical than usual. Maybe that was mentioned in Robert Greene's review in TAS?

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 06:17 pm »

I think you are correct. In theory, the arm should be of little or no consequence on that table. The trough set up renders it so. Where on the WT tables, the arm is the essence of the design.

Shakey

roscoeiii · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Apr 2012, 06:54 pm »

Well, "no consequence" is probably understating it, judging from the Audiomods review (link below). But do notice that they did find there to be less of a difference between the stock RB300 and the Audiomods on the Rock than they found comparing the two arms on the Dr Feickert Analogue Woodpecker.

Full review:
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/turntables/audiomods-series-iii-tonearm-695592/review

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #32 on:** 1 May 2012, 04:18 pm »

It's been a week roscoe. Anything new to report?

Shakey

roscoeiii · « **Reply #33 on:** 1 May 2012, 04:20 pm »

Was out of town at AKFest and slammed at work, so not a whole lot new to add yet. This week should be better for listening opportunities

steveblezy · « **Reply #34 on:** 6 May 2012, 05:59 pm »

Well, I thought that I would finally chime into this thread. I have been running a Rock 7 with an audiomods arm (van den hul MC10 Special cart) for about 3 years. It is a pretty remarkable combination. Regarding the suspension, well done Max. The springs take up the bulk of the weight but they are air dampened as the springs are inside a bellow system that has a very small hole on top to tune the dampening. There is absolutely no bounce in the suspension at all. When set up correctly, if you push the platter down with your hand, you should hear a little 'pssst, pssst" from the air evacuating and you will notice that there is no bounce at all. The table simple returns to the resting level. The front end trough does it's job. The table really digs the bass out like no other table. Bearing noise - well, there is none. Not because of the bearing design (I prefer the bearing on my rock elite) but it is the trough again. While it dampens the arm it also makes any vibration in the plinth to be absolute on the arm. Basically a physical feedback loop. As for the platter, it is a weird heavy plastic material that couples to the vinyl very well. It is acoustically dead. Personally I have adopted a few ideas from VPI by using a small rubber washer that is taller that the recessed dishing and then I use the clamp the flatten out any warps. I have to say that VPI got the clamping system down to perfection. The stock Townshend method does not work very well but hey, all you have to do is got the a hardware store and pick up a soft rubber washer and you are all set. The finish looks a little rough and industrial but the combination is very remarkable. One thing that I have noticed is anti-skating "issues" heheheheh. The shape of the VH1 styli usually requires about 1/3 the normal anti-skating. Cool, well known fact for VDH carts. With the fluid trough, the added dampening takes care of the other 1/3!!!!! I have a crap-load of test records (I mean a lot of them). Every anti-skate test regardless of test record or hour of listening also come up with the same result, anti-skating force is much lower with the trough in place. With the VDH cart and trough, I use no anti-skate at all. It really had me scratching my head for a long time. All in all, it is a remarkable table but I wish the fit and finish was a notch up. Regardless, when I want to do a serious listen session, I use the Rock 7.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #35 on:** 6 May 2012, 06:17 pm »

Thanks for adding this Steve. I am thinking of moving from the RB301 to the Audiomods arm. Were you using another arm on the Rock before the Audiomods? What improvements did you hear with that arm?

You may be more picky than I am about the finish, but I have no complaints there. I like the naked Turntable look, and the table is nice and solid in its mostly metal construction.

As soon as this Bulls basketball game is over I hope to start a close comparison of the Rock 7 and a Well Tempered Amadeus.

steveblezy · « **Reply #36 on:** 6 May 2012, 06:55 pm »

I used a stock Rb on both the Rock 7 and the Elite. The audio mods made huge improvements in both situations. Jeffs bearings are miles ahead of the very sloppy stock Rega bearings. The Rega bearing are rather sloppy by design. If they are any tighter, they are a little "sticky" so to speak. This was one of Jeffs concerns as a tonearm is continuously making minute adjustments. His ceramic bearing are a perfect solution. When you think about what makes a good bearing, you have to remember what it is doing. One can have a bearing that is remarkable smooth once it is up to speed but what if the bearing is only doing very slight movements only. Know what I an getting at? The drilled arm not only reduces weight, but in my opinion allows air to escape from a resonant cavity (the tube arm) lowering an acoustical feedback loop. A few years ago, I used to have the TT in the same room as the speakers. When I changed the arm to the audiomods, I noticed the reduction of resonance and more controlled bass. Jeff has a very nice off center piller bearing design that allows you to fine tune the pivot-spindle distance and his anti-skating is also unique as you can bias it to give more or less bias as you approach the inner grooves. All I can say is Jeffs arms are fantastic. Detailed and finesse but also rock solid. I never had the feeling that it is fragile. Hell I could probably pick up the table by the arm and it would not hurt it at all. Dealing with Jeff was a dream. Very happy with the entire transaction and communication. I do have a few tips for you and your Rock 7. You may notice that the "parked" position for the paddle will slowly fill up with fluid caused by fluid that was on the paddle. I used a dremmel and cut a "spillway" between the "parked position" and the trough section. Painted it black so it looked pretty. No more build up of the silicone goo. The design on my Elite had no physical barrier between the "parked" position and the trough. Also, to tighten up the platter and the sub-platter, make a few wraps with Teflon tape around the sub-platter pillar to make up the slack. This will couple the sub-platter to the platter. When I did this, I added a few wraps, twisted the sub-platter while pushing it into the platter so they would mold together. really made a nice improvement. I love the platter material but it had a little play. No more. (hell I have a second Rock 7 platter that I am fitting to my Elite bearing as it is so acoustically dead. I have no idea what it is but it sounds better that acrylic). Write Jeff an email if you have any questions regarding his arms, I am sure you will be happy.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #37 on:** 6 May 2012, 07:04 pm »

Many thanks. I am already in communication with Jeff, waiting for a reply from him as we speak.

Thanks for both the tips. I had used a syringe to periodically empty the "parked position" of the dripped silicon. But I like your solution better.

And the Teflon tape is a great idea.

I did get an Origin Live mat that I am trying out (they advertised it as a good mat for the Rock), and will report back on its effects. They do offer a trial period and full refund if it isn't an improvement.

steveblezy · « **Reply #38 on:** 6 May 2012, 07:13 pm »

One last tip for you. You can write to Max Townshend, wait a few days and he will respond back . It is rather rare to actually be able to contact the person that designed you piece of gear and receive a direct reply. He has been very helpful to me in the past. It was nice to see that I was not talking to "support staff" but actually the designer himself. Have fun!!!! and yes, I was, and still am playing music on my Rock 7 while I have been typing this. Looking forward to your comparison results.

steveblezy · « **Reply #39 on:** 6 May 2012, 07:18 pm »

with the "Spillway" modification, I have never had to worry about this in 3 years (daily use). It really does the trick but it does take a steady hand to do it. I used one of the cutting discs to take a sliver off for each pass. Little by little. And yes, I was a little bit nervous why doing it.