Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.

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bavmike

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #440 on: 14 Feb 2018, 01:05 am »
Dave C has extensive experience with both cables so he’s probably a better guy for subjective opinions comparing the 2 at this point. What’s better about them is the same outside the box as inside.

bavmike

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #441 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:05 am »
I’m still at Jay’s listening. First impressions to me is it’s just more of an open window. Squeaky clean perfection, yet still absolutely no fatigue. Like a veil or 2 was lifted, without any compromises.

DaveC113

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #442 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:12 am »
DPS-4 is more refined, especially upper mids to highs. It has a sweet sound in these frequency ranges that is warm but not bloated or slow, and doesn't limit resolution like warm parts often do. It's very balanced and allows the soundstage to blossom and fine detail to come through. The S55N in comparison is just a touch rough in the upper mids and highs, but not necessarily in a bad way in that people don't think it sounds objectionable, but it does have more of it's own character vs the DPS-4. For what it is the S55N is very impressive though, and the differences described are fairly subtle. However, I don't have gear that reacts to PCs as much as some others right now. The AS1200 is likely to reveal larger differences in cables vs my tube gear so the amount of difference is going to be hard to say, and even if I did say everyone has a different gauge for that, it's very hard to communicate.

On plugs, I recently had a customer test with an AC power quality meter and NCF plugs reduced noise throughout his system. IMO they are very expensive but I want to put out there the GTX NCF receptacles are possibly the best investment in AC power you can make, and will reduce noise more than the plugs. I have dozens of customers that have been blown away by the GTX NCF, I can't think of a single one that wasn't extremely enthusiastic in their praise. I just thought I'd throw that in there if folks are deciding where to best spend their money in AC power delivery, don't forget the receptacle! You can get just one and use it to feed a power distributor, this is the best bang for the buck. It is a paradox that the GTX NCF is priced ridiculously high for a receptacle but it's a bargain for the results you get.


bavmike

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #443 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:30 am »
I’m really starting to wonder if this last 13” run is more important than what’s before it. When we look at the total circuit from breaker panel to amp in most systems, we have a couple dozen ft of cheap Romex internal wiring, an outlet, inlet, power cable, outlet, inlet, internal power cable, amp. Most use high end external power cables with standard wall wiring. If the connection between the wall outlet and amp input is far more important than the couple dozen ft of cheap cable in the wall, wouldn’t the run inside the case that directly connects to the amp be even more important? When I think about folks spending $50000+ on amps that have 30 cents of internal power cable and $3 inlets, then the owners paying $5000+ on power cables it just doesn’t seem right. Their whole theory gets thrown out the window if the superior cable isn’t wired internally as well.

Ric Schultz

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #444 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:34 am »
Hardwire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am going to do this in my system next week.  I will extend the wire out from the wall with a short jumper and then hardwire all my home made power cords to it.  No expensive connectors needed.  I will still have IEC females on the cables so they can unplug from the gear.  I will also have an external dual socket in order to try the IFI AC Ipurifier.....it is getting nice reviews.  Of course, I have no WAF.....man cave here.

Of course, you can hardwire into the amp or whatever but then you need a connector at the other end.  Since I don't have power switching on my amp then the only way I can turn it off is to unplug it......but the other end of the cable will now be hardwired into the wall.....cannot wait!

If I had a power conditioner then I would hardwire it into the wall and hardwire the power cords into all my components.  The only place that would have connectors is on the power conditioner.  Less stuff to buy, mo betta sound.  Obviously, I am a DIY person.  Most people would never do this stuff.

mocenigo

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #445 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:42 am »
I’m really starting to wonder if this last 13” run is more important than what’s before it.

There may be indeed some truth in this! Most people do not understand why we have "fancy/deluxe" mains cords to our devices, whereas we do know that they provide some mains filtering in and out the devices.  But in fact, if the last 30cm of mains wire inside can pick up some of the EM/RF fields produced by the audio electronics themselves in the same box, then they can essentially feed them back into the circuit.

In my current amp (class AB) I noticed some minor (but audible) SQ improvements just by adding some shielding, with copper tape (!) around the wires to the transformer, with a little drain wire that connects to the chassis, and all taped over with duct tape (because it adds more stiffness than other types of tape) to provide insulation.

Hence, for me there is no doubt that a good shielded mains wire, where the shield is connected with the ground, but at the IEC end only, can provide sonic benefits.  Cables that have a semiconductor shielding with high resistance should be, as industrial (and medical) practice suggest, better, because they then convert a good chunk of the noise into (very little) heat.


bavmike

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #446 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:52 am »
At some point I’m going to do an experiment. Internal DPS-4, combined with 1.5m external $200 mil spec silver plated copper cable and Furutech connectors. Vs internal mil spec silver plated copper with 1.5m external DPS-4 cable with FI-50 connectors. If the former outperforms the latter this might represent some incredible value. Especially when we consider most amps under $100000 don’t even use internal cables as good as the mil spec silver plated copper.

DaveC113

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #447 on: 14 Feb 2018, 03:33 am »
I’m really starting to wonder if this last 13” run is more important than what’s before it.

I believe this is true, years ago I had the idea to put a few feet of high end PC in a component, it would have it's own shielded sub-enclosure maybe an inch tall underneath the main enclosure. I would consider doing this if I sold components, because with some components it can make a pretty big improvement. At this point what is it? A filter? I think that's the only explanation for how adding a bunch of wire can make things sound better. IDK... I kind of wish audio wasn't like this, it gets out of hand. :lol: 

On connectors and hard-wiring, I actually think Furutech NCF parts make an improvement in AC power as they reduce noise. I've thought of running a few NCF receptacles in series to see what happens, but that is expensive so I'm also going to experiment with tourmaline and see if I can recreate the results. I think just putting a bag of tourmailne crystals on top of my SurgeX and where the plugs come out the back makes an improvement... not quite to the level of NCF but it's a start.  :green:

The silver-plated copper/teflon mil-spec is well known and used in the DIY tube amp community so you might find it in some commercial tube amps at reasonable prices. It's nice to work with because it doesn't corrode and it handles temperature well, both from tubes and from soldering. I have tested a power cable made of like 35 runs of small diameter solid-core mils spec that was incredibly bad in my system and occasionally it may cause glare in some applications but usually not. For AC or DC power and woofers I like it a lot.

Ric Schultz

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #448 on: 14 Feb 2018, 04:28 am »
Furutech NCF connectors might reduce noise compared to other connectors but until you try hardwiring.......you have no idea.  You can always damp and shield wires without needing connectors.  I do this myself.  Yes, crystals are one way of "conditioning the signal".  Shakti stones were one of the first uses of crystals.  I hope Mike will offer hardwired power cords on his amps.  Makes sense to me.  That is what I would want.  This is what Mike Eastman is going to do with his Mivera amp.

DaveC113

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #449 on: 14 Feb 2018, 04:44 am »
Furutech NCF connectors might reduce noise compared to other connectors but until you try hardwiring.......you have no idea.  You can always damp and shield wires without needing connectors.  I do this myself.  Yes, crystals are one way of "conditioning the signal".  Shakti stones were one of the first uses of crystals.  I hope Mike will offer hardwired power cords on his amps.  Makes sense to me.  That is what I would want.  This is what Mike Eastman is going to do with his Mivera amp.

I've built my entire system from source to driver so I do have some idea...   :lol:   

Good quality connectors have very little effect on the sound, or in the case of NCF parts they might even improve it, but you pay for it... the parts aren't cheap. Hard wiring is free but can be inconvenient. It's not a big deal, do whatever makes you happy.  :thumb:

Ric Schultz

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #450 on: 14 Feb 2018, 05:08 am »
I just hardwired my interconnect into my amp last week......Oh my God!, the distortion went down.  Why did I wait so long to do this?!?  We are talking KLE male to modded WBT female....gone....history.  I liked the WBT coppers better than both of the best Furutechs.  Don't build a system......unbuild it!  Remove those connectors!!!!  I have always had my amplifiers hardwired into the speakers (at both ends) since the early 80s.  You won't believe how veiled even the best post/spade systems are!  Anyway.....back to listening impressions.....anyone?

Tomy2Tone

Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #451 on: 14 Feb 2018, 12:18 pm »
I’m still at Jay’s listening. First impressions to me is it’s just more of an open window. Squeaky clean perfection, yet still absolutely no fatigue. Like a veil or 2 was lifted, without any compromises.

That's how I would describe the difference with the DPS-4 to the 55n based on my listening to both cables with the same connectors. The DPS-4 to me sounds more open and natural and detailed whereas the 55n sounds closed in by comparison.

At some point I’m going to do an experiment. Internal DPS-4, combined with 1.5m external $200 mil spec silver plated copper cable and Furutech connectors. Vs internal mil spec silver plated copper with 1.5m external DPS-4 cable with FI-50 connectors. If the former outperforms the latter this might represent some incredible value. Especially when we consider most amps under $100000 don’t even use internal cables as good as the mil spec silver plated copper.

Really curious to see how this turns out.

jtwrace

Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #452 on: 14 Feb 2018, 02:32 pm »
I just hardwired my interconnect into my amp last week......Oh my God!, the distortion went down. 
If that's the case then prove it with measurements. 

bavmike

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #453 on: 14 Feb 2018, 04:02 pm »
Just an FYI, for anyone who feels high end cables are a scam, I can offer free downgrades to Mogami on the standards.

debjit.g

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #454 on: 14 Feb 2018, 06:28 pm »
I just hardwired my interconnect into my amp last week......Oh my God!, the distortion went down.  Why did I wait so long to do this?!?  We are talking KLE male to modded WBT female....gone....history.  I liked the WBT coppers better than both of the best Furutechs.  Don't build a system......unbuild it!  Remove those connectors!!!!  I have always had my amplifiers hardwired into the speakers (at both ends) since the early 80s.  You won't believe how veiled even the best post/spade systems are!  Anyway.....back to listening impressions.....anyone?

looks like you are a hardwired man  :D Have you experimented hardwiring the romex directly from the breaker to the amps to see if they reduced further distortion ? It wouldn't be practical but just out of curiosity....

jtwrace

Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #455 on: 14 Feb 2018, 06:30 pm »
looks like you are a hardwired man  :D Have you experimented hardwiring the romex directly from the breaker to the amps to see if they reduced further distortion ? It wouldn't be practical but just out of curiosity....
No, he goes straight to the pole since he avoids fuses at all cost.   :P

sandbagger

Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #456 on: 14 Feb 2018, 08:07 pm »
looks like you are a hardwired man  :D Have you experimented hardwiring the romex directly from the breaker to the amps to see if they reduced further distortion ? It wouldn't be practical but just out of curiosity....

I wonder what bypassing the meter sounds like  :scratch:

genjamon

Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #457 on: 14 Feb 2018, 08:45 pm »
I prefer a nice cherry or mesquite tonewood for my pole compared to standard treated pine.

debjit.g

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #458 on: 14 Feb 2018, 08:50 pm »
I wonder what bypassing the meter sounds like  :scratch:

humm.....if one bypasses the meter, I wonder how will the electric company bill its clients ? on a serious note, the meters are the major source of noise though  :P

Ric Schultz

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Re: Icepower 1200AS2 (Purepower) amp listening impressions.
« Reply #459 on: 14 Feb 2018, 09:03 pm »
I get my power directly from the Sun......Apollo passes it through his hands directly into my wires he is holding.  The measured distortion of this "God" juice is .00000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000001 % distortion.  Certified by Apollo himself.

We just experienced the "objectivist road bump"  Fortunately, it is not long lasting!