[Anonamemouse]

I am very impressed with Roon's customer interactions; like Bryston, they seem to really care and are very transparent with their community.

Definitely! The guys at Bluesound could learn from this! Instead they simply ban anyone critical. If you have an idea that doesn't fit Tonys agenda and speak up about it: BAN!!!

[RonCH]

Can the Roon and Shairplay services run at the same time?  When I turn Roon Ready on Shairplay stops.

[unincognito]

Can the Roon and Shairplay services run at the same time?  When I turn Roon Ready on Shairplay stops.

that is normal

[Marius]

HI Chris,


Could you please check once again why the BDP1 can't operate files over the network while on Roon Ready mode?
Ive tried several times, and its a positive and 100% repeatable issue:


Roon ready mode on: no file transfers are possible, Mac finder won't connect to or show the BDP's attached drives and containing files. BDP is visible in Finder.
Rond ready mode off: instantly available in Mac finder, all options as usual possible.


btw: i can click the update button either in the main interface or in the Settings/Disk tab. This seems a bit strange since the MPD out of office warning is also showing. I think my BDP hung after i clicked, didnt go back to that afterwards. Might be worth looking into also. Just as all other MPD references/operations still 'live' in MM while in Rood Ready Mode, which of course they aren't.


Cheers,
Marius

[James Tanner]

HI Chris,


Could you please check once again why the BDP1 can't operate files over the network while on Roon Ready mode?
Ive tried several times, and its a positive and 100% repeatable issue:


Roon ready mode on: no file transfers are possible, Mac finder won't connect to or show the BDP's attached drives and containing files. BDP is visible in Finder.
Rond ready mode off: instantly available in Mac finder, all options as usual possible.


btw: i can click the update button either in the main interface or in the Settings/Disk tab. This seems a bit strange since the MPD out of office warning is also showing. I think my BDP hung after i clicked, didnt go back to that afterwards. Might be worth looking into also. Just as all other MPD references/operations still 'live' in MM while in Rood Ready Mode, which of course they aren't.


Cheers,
Marius

Hi Marius

Chris is on a weeks holiday so it will be next week before he can answer.

james

[Marius]

well deserved!


Cheers, and thanks.
Marius

Hi Marius

Chris is on a weeks holiday so it will be next week before he can answer.

james

[unincognito]

HI Chris,


Could you please check once again why the BDP1 can't operate files over the network while on Roon Ready mode?
Ive tried several times, and its a positive and 100% repeatable issue:


Roon ready mode on: no file transfers are possible, Mac finder won't connect to or show the BDP's attached drives and containing files. BDP is visible in Finder.
Rond ready mode off: instantly available in Mac finder, all options as usual possible.


btw: i can click the update button either in the main interface or in the Settings/Disk tab. This seems a bit strange since the MPD out of office warning is also showing. I think my BDP hung after i clicked, didnt go back to that afterwards. Might be worth looking into also. Just as all other MPD references/operations still 'live' in MM while in Rood Ready Mode, which of course they aren't.


Cheers,
Marius

I havn't been able to reproduce this with either my office units or my home setup's, have you tried using the connect to server option found under the go menu in finder?  I'll take a look into the odd behavoir with the web interface when i get a chance.

Cheers,
Chris

[Marius]

Thank Chris,


Yes i have tried the go route.


No succes though.


its not the web interface thats behaving oddly, its Mac Finder that won't connect. (that is, i can see it in the server list/left pane in Finder. Selecting that does nothing, no folders, nor files appear)


I can reach the BDP in the web browser and launch MM. Just can't operate files in Finder. Roon suggested that might per design, since Roon ready needs file on the NAS (or at least Roon Server) to be read, and not on the player. Also suggested to check with a certain Chris Rice, do i know him?
Lol.


Cheers,
Marius

I havn't been able to reproduce this with either my office units or my home setup's, have you tried using the connect to server option found under the go menu in finder?  I'll take a look into the odd behavoir with the web interface when i get a chance.

Cheers,
Chris

[zoom25]

Back on MPD. Good job Bryston, your own initial implementation still sounds the best in class.

[CanadianMaestro]

Back on MPD. Good job Bryston, your own initial implementation still sounds the best in class.

 

Sometimes "new" just ain't better.

[tishbite]

Dear community,

a few weeks past, humbly sharing with you my impressions on Roon and its integration with my BDP2+BDA3 combo: sounds awful. I am sorry to say. I guess my expectations were high due to the image passed off by Roon Labs.

To be more concrete: MPD sounds far far better. Roon is sending some truly horrible harmonics off to the speakers: intensely muddling all the frequencies -- with the MPD the bass is sharper, taut, defined and the overall imagery and soundstaging is vastly more precise.

To put it in a more "physical" i.e., mathematically model-way: all harmonics to the n-th order seem to be reproduced more accurately through the MPD from Bryston; Roon seems to "add" something in the electronic path that misshapes the harmonics and/or adds new ones.

My tentative root-cause analysis: the Roon signal pathway goes through the PC, correct? Whereas the MPD is inbuilt in the BDP2? Are the PC circuits to blame?

FYI: my kit is Bryston 4BSST2 + BP26 + BDP2 + BDA3 + BOT1 feeding PMC MB2S's.

Just my thoughts.

All best,
Phil

[Dave Jameson]

It seems to me that opinions of Roon are quite polarized. My own experience is quite the opposite of tishbite's. I'm reminded of the early days of USB audio transfer where one PC would sound awful compared to another, all running the same files and playback software. For the life of me I can't tell you why Roon would sound bad on one computer compare to another, as my Mac is the bare minimum recommended to run Roon at all and both system and audio performance are exceptionally good.

But I guess that's why one chooses the BDP2 in the first place; to take the guess work out of computer based audio and simply deliver reliable results.

Cheers,
DJ

[vonnie123]

Opinions vary on this topic.  I'm sticking with Roon unless I find something I like better.  Sonore microRendu tops my early version BDP-1.  The BDP-2 upgrade might be a better test.  YMMV.

[Marius]

Opinions vary on this topic.  I'm sticking with Roon unless I find something I like better.  Sonore microRendu tops my early version BDP-1.  The BDP-2 upgrade might be a better test.  YMMV.

HI,
I am considering a Sonore MR or upgrade to the BDP2.
Are there any real life tests available? Still on a BDA1, so my USB connection isn't up to par and need the SPDif and/or AES/EBU. Which makes it a one way ticket to the BDA2 i suppose?
Also, to be somewhat future proof, id like the new device to be capable of indexing at least 200K tracks into its database. Havent read a testimony on the BDP2 it can handle that, 60K being the most frequently mentioned number.


Please let me know your experience.


btw, for this OP thread: I've almost given up on ROON, it simply is too buggy. Yesterdays update made 3 weeks of background analyzing go down the drain, and it has now started all over. Havent even begun to really test its audiophile capabilities, other than my early, not too positive experience on the ear. The eye is a different thing all together, and though very nice, its not what i want my music player for. Indeed, YMMV.

Thanks,
Marius

[vonnie123]

HI,
I am considering a Sonore MR or upgrade to the BDP2.
Are there any real life tests available? Still on a BDA1, so my USB connection isn't up to par and need the SPDif and/or AES/EBU. Which makes it a one way ticket to the BDA2 i suppose?
Also, to be somewhat future proof, id like the new device to be capable of indexing at least 200K tracks into its database. Havent read a testimony on the BDP2 it can handle that, 60K being the most frequently mentioned number.

Please let me know your experience.

Thanks,
Marius

The microRendu is a USB output device, whereas the BDP-2 is more versatile when it comes to outputs (AES, SPDIF, USB).  I am using my BDP-1 via AES/EBU into an upgraded W4S DAC-2.  The BDP-1 MM database features never worked for me; it may be my cataloging system is not compatible.  I have a small collection of approximately 10K PCM flac files, so capacity is not an issue for me.  I don't have any DSD music, other than SACD media.

At this time, you can employ HQPlayer with the mR, not the Bryston players, Bryston could be working on that compatibility behind the scenes.  I believe they were looking at that.  Cost of the two devices is considerably different, although, in fairness, you would probably need to upgrade the mR with a better power supply to get the most out of it.  Bryston durability and warranty is hard to beat.  The mR is pretty new on the scene to weigh in on long term durability and performance.  Upgrading your DAC might be the best first move.  Both companies make great products.  That said, the only live tests that matter are your own two ears (and brain).   

[Krutsch]

I am considering a Sonore MR or upgrade to the BDP2

Are there any real life tests available? Still on a BDA1, so my USB connection isn't up to par and need the SPDif and/or AES/EBU. Which makes it a one way ticket to the BDA2 i suppose?

Also, to be somewhat future proof, id like the new device to be capable of indexing at least 200K tracks into its database. Havent read a testimony on the BDP2 it can handle that, 60K being the most frequently mentioned number.

Please let me know your experience.

btw, for this OP thread: I've almost given up on ROON, it simply is too buggy. Yesterdays update made 3 weeks of background analyzing go down the drain, and it has now started all over. Havent even begun to really test its audiophile capabilities, other than my early, not too positive experience on the ear. The eye is a different thing all together, and though very nice, its not what i want my music player for. Indeed, YMMV.

There is a lengthy thread on CA about the microRendu; worth reading if you are really interested. I know folks there use it for MPD, DLNA, as well as Roon, so you could post there and ask if anyone has run into any real database limitations.

One nice thing about MPD is you can exclude whole sub-folders, and below, for the purposes of building your MPD database. So, if you mostly browse by folder, but want indexing for some of your collection, you can do this by placing a a file called .mpdignore in its parent directory on your storage device.

See: https://www.musicpd.org/doc/user/music_directory_and_database.html

Given that you have a BDP-1, I can see why you like to browse by folder, as indexing that collection would be impossible. But the BDP-2 has a lot more memory, a faster ethernet interface and faster processor, so this might be doable - but if not, see the preceding comment.

Remember that both the BDP-2 and microRendu are running the same MPD (may be slightly different versions), so indexing issues with one will likely exist in the other. The MPD tag cache isn't that large, so both devices should have sufficient flash storage space for even your collection.

As for Roon, you should reach out via the Roon Community and see if they can help you with your collection. I know there are people there that have really large collections.

But, wow... 200,000+ audio tracks? I have 20,000 and I can't imagine what another 190,000 tracks would look like in my collection, unless I started buying up all of those huge 100 CD classical collections.

[Marius]

HI Ken,


Thanks,
Great references, thanks for that.
Ill return to CA, and look for the thread you're mentioning.
Cool, the MDPignore flag, didn't know about that one. There might be more, unfamiliar to us Brystonians, used to using MPD through MM on the BDP, instead of really 'programming' MPD talk.


As for Roon, i'm on the community, and the Roon people are really helpful.


i was talking future proof (200k). It might be an absurd number, but i believed that for my CD collection too, when i started wayback in '85 was it? I just don't want have to buy substantial hardware upgrades every year.


Thanks again, Cheers,
Marius




..

There is a lengthy thread on CA about the microRendu; worth reading if you are really interested. I know folks there use it for MPD, DLNA, as well as Roon, so you could post there and ask if anyone has run into any real database limitations.

One nice thing about MPD is you can exclude whole sub-folders, and below, for the purposes of building your MPD database. So, if you mostly browse by folder, but want indexing for some of your collection, you can do this by placing a a file called .mpdignore in its parent directory on your storage device.

See: https://www.musicpd.org/doc/user/music_directory_and_database.html

Given that you have a BDP-1, I can see why you like to browse by folder, as indexing that collection would be impossible. But the BDP-2 has a lot more memory, a faster ethernet interface and faster processor, so this might be doable - but if not, see the preceding comment.

Remember that both the BDP-2 and microRendu are running the same MPD (may be slightly different versions), so indexing issues with one will likely exist in the other. The MPD tag cache isn't that large, so both devices should have sufficient flash storage space for even your collection.

As for Roon, you should reach out via the Roon Community and see if they can help you with your collection. I know there are people there that have really large collections.

But, wow... 200,000+ audio tracks? I have 20,000 and I can't imagine what another 190,000 tracks would look like in my collection, unless I started buying up all of those huge 100 CD classical collections.

[Grit]

I'm still trying to understand and locate the reason for the difference in sound between the MPD player in my BDP-2 and Roon. I REALLY enjoy the Roon interface, but not at the expense of (what I perceive to be) quality.

On the Computer Audiophile forums, the microRendu support folks stated that Roon, "... is streaming directly to the connected hardware device via the microRendu. In contrast, when the microRendu is used in MPD/DLNA output mode it is actually rendering the content and then streaming directly to the connected hardware device."

I'm wondering if something similar is going on with the BDP-2? If so, would the BDP-2 'rendering the content' via MPD possibly account for sonic differences vs Roon 'streaming directly'?

Can Roon be used as a player for the BDP-2 using any other protocols?

[vklyushnikov]

Actually I think that Roon on BDP-2 sounds much more detailed than MPD with more extended highs and lows and better instrument separation. This may sound unusual after MPD so that is why some people complain. Regarding why is the difference - Krutsch already posted a good reference. In short  while every player software is bitperfect those bits may be delivered with different timing and processor load, so that is why every player  sounds different. For example squeezelite is bitperfect too but sounds worse than MPD. Microrendu uses dual core processor while BDP-2 is single core - so Roon may sound different on it. In theory all differences may be measured and Bryston may have all necesessary equipment, but I'm not sure they have resources and time for such research. I never saw any hardware manufacturer that explain why different players sounds different on their hardware. I know some MPD based audio Linux distros - they use real time patches for Linux Kernel and very subtle tweaks of MPD thread priorities. People behind them claim that every such tweak is important for sound quality. Bryston uses MPD with just default settings and I think it could sound better. For example some raw heavy metal records sound really harsh with MPD - but with Roon I hear much more separation between guitars and bass. My configuration is BDP-2 with Juli card and BDA-2.

[TJ-Sully]

Dear community,

a few weeks past, humbly sharing with you my impressions on Roon and its integration with my BDP2+BDA3 combo: sounds awful. I am sorry to say. I guess my expectations were high due to the image passed off by Roon Labs.

To be more concrete: MPD sounds far far better. Roon is sending some truly horrible harmonics off to the speakers: intensely muddling all the frequencies -- with the MPD the bass is sharper, taut, defined and the overall imagery and soundstaging is vastly more precise.

To put it in a more "physical" i.e., mathematically model-way: all harmonics to the n-th order seem to be reproduced more accurately through the MPD from Bryston; Roon seems to "add" something in the electronic path that misshapes the harmonics and/or adds new ones.

My tentative root-cause analysis: the Roon signal pathway goes through the PC, correct? Whereas the MPD is inbuilt in the BDP2? Are the PC circuits to blame?

FYI: my kit is Bryston 4BSST2 + BP26 + BDP2 + BDA3 + BOT1 feeding PMC MB2S's.

Just my thoughts.

All best,
Phil



Phil,  well said.

After experimenting with Roon integration into my setup (4BSST^2, BP-25, BDP-1, BDA-2, Mini T's) - I am in full agreement w/ you regarding superior sound quality using MPD vs. Roon. Specifically, I share your observations of better bass and overall sound stage/imagery using MPD over Roon. These are important areas to pay attention to!! Yes!  [If interested, and for those Dylan lovers out there, try switching between Roon and MPD on the Oh Mercy album at 96/24 - quite easy to hear/feel the differences].  Go D.Lanois!

Having said that, I absolutely enjoy Roon's slick interface and connection with Tidal - and will continue to use Roon in my Bryston setup.  For more serious listening, I'll switch over to MPD - especially for those long weekends of extended listening!

Thanks to JT and the Byrston crew for their never-ending commitment to product innovation and customer support - and seamlessly bringing Roon and Tidal to us all!  thanks guys!! 

Cheers!

Terry
Smithers, BC