[twitch54]

silly question.  The Rega RP1 was pretty much plug and play.  With the VPI models there appears to be a little more to the set up of the turntable.  For someone who has never peformed this kind of set up, how difficult will it be?

patience is the key, yes it is more involved (balancing arm for proper azimuth) but cartridge mounting is easy since being a uni-pivot arm you can quickly remove it.

Myself an owner of VPI (Aries III) I'm more than pleased with it's performance, a nice used Classic sounds like a great upgrade. Out of curiosity what is your budget (table / arm / cartridge) ?

[twitch54]

Well the Rega is worthless for for future sale if it's not fixed. To me it makes more sense to put that $100 into getting it repaired. Otherwise you're sitting there with a broken Rega of no value and a $100 turntable that needs more of an investment for restoration.

First off the P1 used is not worth much to begin with, the MDF platter is junk (the Op knows this by now) myself I wouldn't put much into it, perhaps you can get it repaired for less but certainly do not throw good money away at that TT.

[loving_it]

I might be selling my VPI classic 2 new style rear mounted motor , not old style front mount .
It has a upgraded weight also and a Soundsmith Zypher MK2 and smoked custom cover .

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

ernest787 , are you looking for a used table?
ernest787 , are you looking for a "plug and play" table?
I have a well-tempered classic (WTC) table. 
Would you consider a table several decades old that is still considered a work of art.
Here is an example of what I am talking about.
These tables appear on EBAY or audio gon from time to time.
ernest787  if you are interested chime in on the Well-tempered forum.
To get the best from any table it must be well isolated. 
My WTC sits upon a wall mounted shelf due to my flexi wood floors.
Where is your Rega mounted and do you have any isolation issues where your table is located?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Consumer-Electronics-/293/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=well+tempered
Shown above are well tempered lab tables for there are no well-tempered classic tables currently on sell on EBAY only parts.

[ernest787]

Neo,

Again, thank you for the reply.  The crown acutally has not been terrible.  Quick back story.  I've only been involved in the audiophile hobby for a year and a half or so.  I pieced this system together basically all at the same time on a budget of $5k.  There were definte compromises made. The Crown and Turntable being the biggest holes in the system. 

I actually asked Jim about the Crown and he stated he had used one before in his own system out of curiosity and while it was not perfect tought it would suffice for the time being.  The Rega was kind of a similar situation.  I couldn't afford to go above ~$500 at the time for a TT and all the reviews I read and speaking to some people all stated it would be a solid entry table.  To be honest, it has been nothing but a headache since purchasing. 

My wife and I are preparing for our first child at the end of the month, so I was given approval to begin some updates on the system next year.  I've had my eyes on an AVA Fet Valve 600R.  I initially wanted to purchase that sometime next year, and then build funds again to upgarde the Rega for a VPI.  With the Rega now is such a place that it's almost impossible to listen to a record I feel like that plan has to be scratched and purchasing a new TT is the best option now.

As Twitch stated, the Rega just isn't worth putting the money into at this point.  I'd probably be better off selling it as is and letting someone else put some money into it or tinker with it.  In all likelyhood, I'll end up giving it to a friend and letting him mess with it and see if he can salvage it.

That all leads me back to the OP I guess.  I can tecnically afford to buy the Classic & and an upgraded cartridge (in the 2m black price range) but with the baby on it's way, the holiday's fast approaching, and the fact that I was not planning to spend that type of money right now has me hesitant.

As the OP states I was originally planning to try to stay around $2k total for the new turntable and cart.  I figured that would upgrade the system, but honestly would probably not get me the table I really wanted.

If I can get the VPI and a nice cartridge for around $3k then I think I can live with that. After speaking with the wife that would give me a table that I shouldn't have to upgarde for a long time, and would probably suit my system much better.  Down the road I could then look at upgrading the Power Amp, and maybe eventually even look at a new Pre.

I've found a new Scout 1.1 and a 2m Black that I can get for ~$2500.  Right now I've been offered the Classic 2 and 10x5 for $3000.  The Scout 1.1 would give me warranty while the dearler said there would not be any warranty on the Classic 2.

I guess the question is for the prices how much better is the Classic 2 compared to the Scout.

sorry for the long post.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Compare the 2 TT's side by side if you can.  Both are good deals.  If the differences in sound are not that great then consider the 1.1 and buy a good phono preamp with the money saved or put it to a 400R or 600R amp.  Both will be major upgrades to the Crown.  I was able to take a 600R home and I wrote a review.  I was also able to hear the 400R at Frank's.  They sound the same and either one would work well with the Salk's.

If you can, bring your amp and preamp to the dealer and see what sounds best with you system.

[jsm71]

ernest787, I read this entire thread and you sound like me a few years back.  I had a table that died and I needed to replace it, but I wasn't ready to purchase the table I really wanted.  Incidently, my future retirement table is slanted at a Classic 2 or perhaps the new Prime.  I'm not ready for that final purchase.  What I did was look at quality new tables that would hold me over with a good MM cartridge.

If you are ready to make the "big jump" over the Rega RP1 stop reading, but it sounds like family concerns are tugging at you.  OTOH, you need a new table which is where I was.

I went with the Marantz TT 15S1.  It is made by Clearaudio and comes with a Clearaudio Virtuoso MM cartridge ($800 value).  This is a super deal for $1,499 new.  Music Direct carries it and the setup is dirt simple.  I've had it for 4 years and it remains a very nice table, but clearly not in the ballpark of the Classic 2.    Confusing, isn't it?

[ernest787]

jsm71,

You are correct sir.  It's quite the position to be in. Ideally, I'd still be saving money to purcahse my 600r next year. Making the decision even more difficult is the fact that the wife believes if we are going to upgrade we might as well make the jump especially if we are getting a good deal.  I understand her thought on the subject, especially when we both know that if I buy a $1500 turntable that I will likely want to upgrade it in a few years.

I did send a message to the seller about adding a 2m Black to the Classic 2. He is wanting $3250 plus shipping for that set up. I need to call music direct and get a quote from them on the Scout 1.1 and see what they would be able to do for me price wise.

Oh... and to complicate the decision I found a Rega RP6 with Exact cart for ~$1600 on Audiogon. Obviously not in the same class as the VPIs, but for awhile the RP6 was my planned jump between the RP1 and the VPIs.

decisions, decisions, decision 

[neobop]

Ernest.
"I've found a new Scout 1.1 and a 2m Black that I can get for ~$2500.  Right now I've been offered the Classic 2 and 10x5 for $3000.  The Scout 1.1 would give me warranty while the dearler said there would not be any warranty on the Classic 2."

Underwhelming.  Scout 1.1 is a nice table, although it's not a Classic 2.  It's $2K list.  The 2M Black is now $750 so you're getting less than 10% off the package.  Not too bad I guess.  Is it local?  If not, any warranty service will be a PIA.   You should tell the guy that you can get a mint Classic 2 for around the same money and make a counteroffer if and only if you want the Scout.  Tell him to write it up as a demo (they get full warranty) and offer $2200.  The dealer makes 40% less shipping on the table and probably 50% on the cart (just so you know).  You might not get 20% off, but maybe free shipping if it's not local.

Florida is sticking to his price, or giving $150 off.   The 10X5 is $450.  Is this what he said yesterday, or did you call him back?  Assuming this is from yesterday, tell him you should probably wait for Prime, but you like the Classic 2 even though it doesn't have a 3D arm.  Just so you know, the 3D arm is currently $3000 by itself.  If you want the Classic I think you should offer $2500 for the table w/o a cart.  Seriously, learn how to set it up and you won't be at the mercy of some dealer.   Tell them all they have to do is box it up - it's a used table with no warranty and it's soon to be overpriced with the new model coming out.  Here's what I want to show you:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-grace-f-9e-rare-top-mm-cartridge-2014-09-18-analog-92018-carlsbad-ca

When the needle wears out send it to Soundsmith for a level 2 rebuild.  This is a better cart than any we've talked about.  You'll have a Grace F-9 Ruby w/line contact.  Learn how to set it up.  It's easier than it looks.  Get Fremer's video, phone a friend, whatever.  If you're going to be playing records you need to learn this, especially with a future toddler on the way.  I still don't know what cart you've got now.  Maybe you can use it in the meantime or practice.  For that matter you can probably get the Scout for $1800 or a bit less.
neo

[xsb7244]

You want to get your money's worth?  Get the Nagaoka MP-500 cartridge from Japan from AudioKazu for $399.00

[sunnydaze]

Hey Neo....

How does that F-9E differ from the F-9L that same seller is also offering, at the same price?

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-grace-f-9-l-rare-top-mm-cartridge-2014-09-18-analog-90066-los-angeles-ca


Is it just a matter of different stylus shapes?  Is one considered sonically superior? 

Thanks!

[neobop]

Sunny,
I'm not positive about that one.  AFAIK the F9E is the same body as the F9 Ruby, but with a different stylus.  The VE database lists the F9L as having 5.5mV out.  The others are 3.5mV.  It also lists the impedance as being the same which doesn't make sense. 

There are some mistakes in the database and this is one of them, but I'm not sure what's correct.  That's why I linked to the F9E.  The Ruby is the one to get.

The listing says they both are 5.5mV - maybe they all are? 
neo

[sunnydaze]

I'm not certain, but I think the Ruby is a different model in the F9 line.

The guy on AG is selling F-9E and F-9L versions....which I believe are different than the Ruby.

[neobop]

I think the difference is the stylus.  There were a bunch of different F9 and F8 models, all with different stylus. 

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/f9.shtml

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&11394&4#11394

I'll see what I can find out.
neo

[neobop]

Ernest,
Just saw this ad:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649149435-vpi-classic-turntable-walnut-finish-see-photo/

The only difference between the Classic 1 and 2 is VTA on-the-fly.
neo

[ernest787]

Thank you for the heads up!  I just sent a message on that.  I also found a display model for the Classic 1 at hifiheaven for thats settling at $2600.  I may contact them as well and let me know the price I've found on these other two tables and see what they can do.

[Heckler75]

Thank you for the heads up!  I just sent a message on that.  I also found a display model for the Classic 1 at hifiheaven for thats settling at $2600.  I may contact them as well and let me know the price I've found on these other two tables and see what they can do.

seen  this  on   canukaudio  (thru  usamart)  not sure if seller  will ship,  worth a try asking.   


Amazing  table, that will  out perform tables, at 3X  the cost or even more.  (the magic is in the trough)             Townshend TT's   Rock


http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649126739-townshend_rock_mark_iii_turntable/

[sunnydaze]

seen  this  on   canukaudio  (thru  usamart)  not sure if seller  will ship,  worth a try asking.   


Amazing  table, that will  out perform tables, at 3X  the cost or even more.  (the magic is in the trough)             Townshend TT's   Rock


http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649126739-townshend_rock_mark_iii_turntable/

Agree 100%!       The magic is also in the built in seismic sink.

I know because I've owned the Rock 3 since 1997, know it pretty well, and compared it against several costlier offerings in my own system and others.  It either beats them outright or hangs with them. 

If you check my post history you will find my further comments on it, and it's performance with several different arms.

Looks to be in VG shape, and IMO, will be very tough to beat at the price, and more.  Unfortunately, local pickup only.

[neobop]

This thing is heavy and I will not ship so local pickup in the Vancouver area is mandatory.

[Heckler75]

This thing is heavy and I will not ship so local pickup in the Vancouver area is mandatory.

i'm sure he would, consider shipping,  if you meet his asking price.  also he can drop off at a UPS/FedEX store,  they can package (double box)   does not hurt to ask.   (show him  the money LOL)


Townshend  TT'S   are  special,  and yes, can beat  many TT'S   at  much higher prices!


Love my Rock 7,   just a fabulous TT