Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

Jazzaudio · « **Reply #1540 on:** 2 Nov 2015, 02:52 am »

I've been told: no further audio expenditures until after the Holiday's...or after I sell some items that I want to keep (and like!) but no longer use due to the physical rearrangement of my system

But...I did manage to go to my local Guitar Center and spend $7.99 for a Neutrix NL4FX 4 Pole Speakon connector

I previously tried replacing the XLS1500's stock binding posts with the Pomona's, which, oddly enough, did not work for me soundwise (although they worked in another amplifier.) It took less then ten minutes to twist off the rear cover on the Speakon connector, disconnect the unterminated speaker cables from the XLS's binding posts, insert the cable ends into the Speakon's screw lock terminals (in my case left cable ends into the respective 1-/1+ terminals , right ends into the 2-/2+ terminals), tighten the screws firmly, then insert and clicked the connector into the XLS's Channel 1 Speakon speaker output (CH1 is wired to output both left and right channels, i.e., stereo). Simple. Easy. I didn't thread the cables through the rear cover before inserting the connector into the XLS just in case I needed to fix/check something.

A quick 30 minute listen to various tracks through a cold XLS and CDP revealed night and day clarity throughout all the frequencies Later listening after 24 hours of burn-in (without listening during burn-in period)made me want to slap myself for waiting so long. You never realize how much grain and edge is present in the stock posts until after it's gone. Now I'm really hearing the XLS....wow. Everything the XLS does sounds even better. I wont use the cliches!

Some thoughts:
1. I don't know if running the speaker cables separately from the Speakon CH 1 and CH 2 outputs would increase clarity or channel separation, but taking advantage of the 4 pole connections and simply using CH1 lends to simplicity, which cant hurt.
2. On a related note, have no fear about adding a connector to unterminated speaker cables. To my ears the difference between the unterminated stock binding post connection and Speakon connection is so pronounced, I don't care about the connector.
3. The markings inside the Speakons are hard to see. I double checked the layout from their website:
file:///C:/Users/Michael/Downloads/Assembly+Instruction+-+speakON+SPX+Series%20(1).pdf
4. The instructions state not to use a Phillips screwdriver....I did (or, at least I used what looked like a Phillips!) Nothing stripped or broke, and the termination grip is tight. Just ensure the wires are twisted tightly and fully inserted. My cable's conductors are 10AWG, which made for a very tight fit

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1541 on:** 2 Nov 2015, 12:39 pm »

My 1500 has the Pomona's installed but I am considering adding speakon connectors to my bare speaker wire when I relocate the amp into the media closet. Sounds like my 11g wire should fit a stock 2 pole speakon fine.

Oktyabr · « **Reply #1542 on:** 14 Nov 2015, 04:01 pm »

Well, I've had the pair of Crown XLS 1500s for a couple of weeks now and they are keepers! I might upgrade to the version 2 one day, when the right price accompanies them, but I even sold off my consumer amps and haven't turned back. For gain I tried both the Rolls unit and a very nice Aphex 124A and ultimately went with the gain adjustment in my AVR after reading the well written tutorial (several times) at hometheatershack. My rather efficient DIY open baffles might never make all the LEDs on the Crowns light up but they sound great! The miniDSP I was using for XO duty is put away in a closet and I've been experimenting with the internal filters in the amps (one amp per side)... Now the bug has bit and I'm starting to feel the seeds of DIY speaker madness growing in my brain again, but it's nice to know that the amps I've purchased are capable of coping much with much more than my current setup.

PS I also bought a Tripp Lite AV86G "Eco Surge" power strip that lets me use my AVR as "Master" and the Crowns as slaves which works extremely well, with full EMI/RFI filtering as a bonus.

Panelhead · « **Reply #1543 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 03:09 pm »

I was late to the party. Purchased a XLS-1500 for 199.00 from B&H. Liked it so much I purchased a XLS-2000. Get the 2000, it has more inside.

1. The hum issues listed are input cable related. Found this because my previous amp was single ended with RCA input. My preamp is both. Once balanced cashless weere used there is no hum running wide open on the attenuators. They are not gain setting pots, they are input attenuators.
2. Did not know about Salis audio mods until last night. Did my own. It takes three different bits to get the board out of the 1500. Took my time.
A. Added my dampers, 47 nfd, 250 volt Siemens stacked film, (blue conformal coating on ends) in series with a o1 ohm LVR-1 resistor across all the large electrolytic caps. Used the same damper for every application, not optimal.
B. Added adhesive heavy rubber foam inside to try and damp the top and bottom. Used a lot, also on top of heat sinks. This way the lined top plate touches the sinks to help with potential ringing.
C. Unsoldered the spades from the speaker cables and installed Speakon connectors.

I suspect the cap dampers have the main impact. But this 20.00 in parts reversed the sound quality ranking. Before the 2000 was richer and more dynamic. Now the modded 1500 is more layered, detailed, and overall a large improvement in playback quality.

dreamtheatervn · « **Reply #1544 on:** 31 Dec 2015, 04:25 pm »

Hi everybody!
I've just bought a used Crown XTI 1002 ( I want the 1500 to follow tweak & mods of you guys here but no 1500 in my area). It's an interesting comparison between 1002 and my existing 1stwatt Amp camp, frankly speaking the 1002 smoked Amp camp easily in mid & HF but no win at all for LF.
Anybody compares XTI 1002 with XLS 1500? I saw they have difference prices but have no idea about the sounds.
I am not good at professional audio , really appreciate if someone helps to explain functions of Xover, dsp, sub synth, delay, Eq in/out.
Happy new year 2016!

mjosef · « **Reply #1545 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 04:30 am »

Quote from: dreamtheatervn on 31 Dec 2015, 04:25 pm

Hi everybody!
I've just bought a used Crown XTI 1002 ( I want the 1500 to follow tweak & mods of you guys here but no 1500 in my area). It's an interesting comparison between 1002 and my existing 1stwatt Amp camp, frankly speaking the 1002 smoked Amp camp easily in mid & HF but no win at all for LF.
Anybody compares XTI 1002 with XLS 1500?

Been there done that...look for my earlier post in this thread. My impressions were that the XTi delivered superior bass and midrange vs the XLS. The manner of connection makes a big difference, I used the the XLR inputs and the SpeakOn outputs. DSP was set to 'Bypass' on the XTi.

dreamtheatervn · « **Reply #1546 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 02:16 pm »

Quote from: mjosef on 2 Jan 2016, 04:30 am

Been there done that...look for my earlier post in this thread. My impressions were that the XTi delivered superior bass and midrange vs the XLS. The manner of connection makes a big difference, I used the the XLR inputs and the SpeakOn outputs. DSP was set to 'Bypass' on the XTi.

Thanks mjosef. I will try the SpeakOn outputs as your advice. Does the "Bypass" mean "DSP off" in the XTI?

stonedeaf · « **Reply #1547 on:** 3 Jan 2016, 01:59 am »

Figured that copying a strategy used by one of my customers decades ago (as long as it's a black box my parents won't notice new equipment/changes) -modified in my case to SWMBO'd won't notice etc.. SO -got three XLS-1502 in for a project and decided to hook two up in place of the two Adcom GFA-845-II that had been in use for a few months on top of the rack. Waited until she wasn't around to do the switch and took advantage of the turn off all the lights on the front capability -so they are just black boxes (OK-OK -more or less!). Deception only lasted about four hours )-:. "Those are new". Still -this justifies to some degree my commitment to the hiFi not hiEnd movement. She woulda sighted in on audio bling right off the bat.
I've only got about four evenings in listening at this point - but my audio memory of the two XLS-1500's that were here for a few weeks before they went into a bar system is that the 1502's are a bit smoother on the top end and a little more pleasant on voices -the 02's might stay here for awhile. This is still a distinctly different audio "flavor" than the conventional AB or tube amps I'm used to. Maybe the difference between a nice Bourbon and a good Scotch ?

KKM · « **Reply #1548 on:** 4 Jan 2016, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: stonedeaf on 3 Jan 2016, 01:59 am

Figured that copying a strategy used by one of my customers decades ago (as long as it's a black box my parents won't notice new equipment/changes) -modified in my case to SWMBO'd won't notice etc.. SO -got three XLS-1502 in for a project and decided to hook two up in place of the two Adcom GFA-845-II that had been in use for a few months on top of the rack. Waited until she wasn't around to do the switch and took advantage of the turn off all the lights on the front capability -so they are just black boxes (OK-OK -more or less!). Deception only lasted about four hours )-:. "Those are new". Still -this justifies to some degree my commitment to the hiFi not hiEnd movement. She woulda sighted in on audio bling right off the bat.
I've only got about four evenings in listening at this point - but my audio memory of the two XLS-1500's that were here for a few weeks before they went into a bar system is that the 1502's are a bit smoother on the top end and a little more pleasant on voices -the 02's might stay here for awhile. This is still a distinctly different audio "flavor" than the conventional AB or tube amps I'm used to. Maybe the difference between a nice Bourbon and a good Scotch ?

My understanding that the 2nd XLS generation had the same electronics but included some extra features so should sound the same? Maybe the newness of the 1502 needs some breaking in? Here is the original press release describing the difference:

http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/news/harman-s-crown-introduces-xls-drivecore-2-amplifiers-with-upgraded-features-and-flexibility

mjosef · « **Reply #1549 on:** 5 Jan 2016, 02:28 am »

Quote from: dreamtheatervn on 2 Jan 2016, 02:16 pm

Does the "Bypass" mean "DSP off" in the XTI?

Yes.
Also check to make sure you have the most recent software version in the XTi, I thought the lastest release sounded a little better than the old/previous software. It came out about 6 months ago, if you have a new model XTi it may already be installed.

Panelhead1 · « **Reply #1550 on:** 28 Jan 2016, 03:53 pm »

Copied some is the mods performed by Salis Audio and added dampening resistors across the chokes. Used Ohmite 2k, 5w, thick film type for low inductance. This seemed to warm up the sonics a little. Still not lush or ripe just very clear and neutral.
This seems to have made the 1500 sound closer to a 2000. They do sound different, the 2000 is better. To get to this point;
1. Using XLR inputs and Speakon outputs.
2. Bypassed the 7 larger electrolytic with a 47nfd stacked film capon series with a 0.1 ohm current sense resistor.
3. Applied heavy closed cell rubber inside to damp the chassis.
4.Resisive dampening on the CMC's.

The unit does need to be powered for a few hours to sound the best. Not sure why.
The mods Performed are all dampening. Electrical on the power supply and mechanical for the chassis.
Overall very good results from a 200.00 amp with a little over 20.00 in parts sloppily installed.

lamcam · « **Reply #1551 on:** 12 Feb 2016, 07:53 pm »

Hi all, my 1st post here. I just purchased the XLS1502, and want to bi-wire my speakers. Can I use both connectors on my amp (Speakon and banana) to connect to my speakers?

dreamtheatervn · « **Reply #1552 on:** 13 Feb 2016, 03:50 am »

If Xti series sounds much better than Xls series, why dont we jump to Xti which just a little bit pricer?

I have returned my Xti1002 because of imbalance of sound ( Ch1 louder than Ch2), maybe it's too old to serve me more

I am gonna buy another Xti but price is far different from B&H(US, Xti 1002@$499) to Taobao (China, http://world.taobao.com/item/43177327853.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.pOR1g7#detail) plus shipping. Don't know which way to go?
Appreciate all suggestions.

stonedeaf · « **Reply #1553 on:** 21 Feb 2016, 04:35 am »

so got six weeks of pleasant listening in using a pair of XLS-1502's. . Got a odd problem with one of 'em -every once in awhile it will go into high speed fan mode -which is pretty noisy -this will last for 3 or 4 min. -drop down to normal operation ( very ,very quiet -not sure fan is on?). And that's it for hours -just fine. I've instaalled my third unit in the questionable units place and will probably send it in to Crown - just wondering if anyone else has encountered this ?
Been thinkin about why the 1502's seem so much more impressive to me than the 1500's i had here for a few weeks -could it be I'm using the balanced in on the 02's and never did that with the 1500 ?

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #1554 on:** 21 Feb 2016, 06:48 am »

Quote from: stonedeaf on 21 Feb 2016, 04:35 am

So got six weeks of pleasant listening in using a pair of XLS-1502's...

Been thinking about why the 1502's seem so much more impressive to me than the 1500's I had here for a few weeks -could it be I'm using the balanced in on the 02's and never did that with the 1500?

How so?

stonedeaf · « **Reply #1555 on:** 21 Feb 2016, 03:56 pm »

While I'd still characterize the XLS-1502 as slightly brighter or detailed sounding amp - there is a sense of ease to this amp that i didn't get out of the 1500 when they were playing thru my system last year.The 1500's were listened to for a couple of weeks - probably a total of 50 hours of TV audio and LP as sources. Both times the amps are being run into a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 speakers -one channel to each driver. Preamp is a Bryston BP-25 and again mostly LP with a fair dose of TV audio (which frankly I don't pay a lot of attention to).One of the surprises which I don't remember noticing with the 1500's is a pretty dramatic improvement in imaging specificity - given a good recording -these amps really paint the picture between the speakers and even to the sides -really remarkable for amps that sell for less than 400 bucks each . The only programming I've done from out of the box is to select input-Y -so that Input 1 is sent out of both amp channels. Like the 1500 the 1502 does sound like a "real" high power amp - I am not a head banger - but still -I've never come close to driving either amp into clipping . It would take volume levels that would be damaging to both my speakers and my hearing to do that. BTW- the amp these (maybe temporarily) replaced is a Bryston 4B-ST-which is now headed to Vermont for repair.Amps and other equipment are on 24/7 .

henrylr · « **Reply #1556 on:** 24 Feb 2016, 06:16 pm »

Today I stumbled upon some reviews of the Bybee music rails. I had never heard of them but what I found were positive remarks mostly on sites that sell them.

Do they make a real improvement? If so, would they be appropriate to install somewhere in my system? The system is a Meridian 506.20 CD player, Aragon 18K MkII preamp and Mccormack DNA amp.

If so, can someone with good soldering skills be able to do it at home? Are there any very clear installation instructions available?

Thanks,
henrylr

barryso · « **Reply #1557 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 12:59 am »

Hi all,

Just wanted to do an update to the posts from a year ago. I was lucky enough to get on the Crown XLS 1500 tour and had a chance to listen with various speakers and preamps.

The cj and Anthem preamps both sounded good with the Crown but the Transcendent Grounded Grid wasn't cutting it. It seemed odd at the time as it's always been one of my favorite inexpensive preamps.

Finally sat down with the Grounded Grid again and it wasn't sounding good on any of the current gear either, even stuff it always got along with nicely. New tubes didn't help so I dragged it into the basement to see what was ailing it. Long one short, it seems to have had a bad solder connection somewhere. Re-flowing most of the connections seems to have brought it back to it's old wonderful self.

The preamp was built from scratch so this wasn't an issue with the Transcendent Sound kit. I must have gotten something a bit off doing the point to point wiring 15 years ago.

NOW it would be nice to have the Crown back in the house.

It would be interesting to hear a comparison between the xls 1500 and the xls 1502 amps. Curious to know how the lower voltage input setting might change the sound of the amp when driving it from non-pro electronics. Anyone had the chance to hear the old model in the same system as the new one?

Many thanks,
Barry

Panelhead1 · « **Reply #1558 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 02:10 pm »

Quote from: henrylr on 24 Feb 2016, 06:16 pm

Today I stumbled upon some reviews of the Bybee music rails. I had never heard of them but what I found were positive remarks mostly on sites that sell them.

Do they make a real improvement?

Thanks,
henrylr

Henry,
I think most of the comments I have seen for these are on commercial websites. They are a form of active noise filter for voltage rails. The circuitry is not a new development.
Suspect they do lower the noise on the rails. May sound better and should be an easy install.

flat4 · « **Reply #1559 on:** 17 May 2016, 02:06 pm »

New here guys. Just purchased an XLS2502 for a great price to try out. Really surprised at the imaging and detail it produces. Of course power and dynamics are not a problem. This is my budget system/home theatre system. So far i am running an outlaw 975 pre/pro with an old Sony cd/dvd player. I also am running some Klipsch tower i purchased open box at a big retailer. It is getting upgraded a little at a time. Next up is some LSA 2.1 towers. Trying to decide on digital. All interconnects and speaker cable will be replaced after that.

I do have a hissing at idle with the amp gain controls all the way up. Was thinking of adding a line level gain unit from HTD so i can turn the controls down. Any suggestions?