[EaRich]

Hello Circle,

This question goes to anyone in the Circle but particularly to Frank.  Frank, a year or so ago when I asked about matching my old Transendence 7 EC with your current amps, you told me that "Either a new Synergy power amplifier or Fet Valve amplifier will work great with your old T7EC preamplifier, and work even better when you get that preamp back to us for the Exicon upgraded ($300 line, $500 line and phono if you have both circuits)...

I've had my mind set on the Fet Valve 400R but my finances have gone from poor to worse (I've recently had to go on disability and am now looking for a senior citizen apartment here in Los Angeles) and cash flow has slowed down greatly. I've had in my mind that the synergy of the Transendence and the Fet Valve amps would sound much better than mixing tubes and solid state (eg. Synergy amps).  Although it seems that the Synergy 240 (125 W pc) or even the Synergy 300 (150 W pc) would be the way to go - I wonder what I would lose mixing formats.

Also to consider, is my listening space and speakers - I am currently in a living room that's 11' x 15' x 8' high - I don't expect my listening space to get much larger in a 1 bedroom senior citizen apartment so we're talking about near-field listening.  Here are the specs for my B&W 805n:

Description: Two-way, stand-mounted, reflex-loaded dynamic loudspeaker. Drive-units: one 1" (25mm) metal-dome cooled tweeter, one 6.5" (165mm) woven-Kevlar bass/midrange cone with 1.24" (32mm) voice-coil. Crossover frequency: 3kHz. Crossover slopes: third-order Butterworth alignment with 49Hz cutoff. Frequency response: 49Hz-22kHz, ±3dB. Sensitivity: 88dB/W/m (2.83V). Nominal impedance: 8 ohms (minimum: 4.6 ohms). Amplifier requirements: 50W minimum, 120W maximum. Maximum recommended cable impedance: 0.2 ohms.

Would the Ultravalve amp be too low to power that 88db sensitivity?  Looking at my speaker's minimum 50 watts requirement, what would be the Ultravalve's equivalent in wattage?  All of my research on the 805n has told me that they need the upper wattage requirement to "really make them sing"....If I go for the higher watts with the Senergy amps will I be losing that "tube magic"?

Understand people, I haven't had good forturn in building my "DREAM AUDIO SYSTEM" in my lifetime (my dream started in about 1970 with a desire of building a Dynaco kit), and now just getting past my 62nd birthday, I'm seeing this as being my first - and last dream system in this lifetime...unless I hit the lottery (not holding my breath!)  And although I've heard many great systems and components, I'm putting all of my cards on Frank's great reputation and common sense aproach to what sounds GOOD in audio!  (It was only last year when I first heard any AVA components at the AXPONA in Chicargo...Frank, I was the tall Black guy who you sat next to in the lobby after you walked down all of those steps during the fire drill and who had you and Jim play the Mapleshade CD on your system that Jim thought was Dexter Gordon...  )  I want to have the very best listening experience for the rest of my days here so I'm not going to just get "something" and upgrade later.    My only "upgrades" will be a new turntable, CD drive/ DAC and maybe the T7 upgrade, like Frank suggested. Any input is appreciated in advance guys and gals!    Thanks!

Earl 

[Lefty052347]

I run my 803 Series II (90db) with a FET Valve Pre and Ultra Valve in a 14' x 25' room without any volume constraints.  I don't see any issues running your 805's in your current room or in an apartment. 

Regards,
Dean

[Carl V]

I'd be curious to hear Franks thoughts.

But those speakers won't be too different
compared to HT1 speakers. And I've heard them HT-1
on the Ultravalve & it's predecessor.  But it is a Valve
amp not a Synergy or  There will be some differences.
I have never heard the Trans.7EC  preamp.

Good luck & I hope life throws you a few less curve balls.

[EaRich]

Thanks Carl V, I always have my "positivity  glove" out ready to catch anything coming..."don't give up - don't ever give up!"   

That's encouraging Lefty...my speakers are just 2db below yours in the sensitivity department and both ask for a minumum of 50 watts!  If I'd be trading "dynamic headroom" with the Senergy/ T7 for that "artist playing in your room" sound of the Ultra/ T7, I think I'd go for the latter.  What's your mediums?  CDs, albums, hi-rez?  I have albums and CDs right now....I'll be checking out the hi-rez down the road but I still like having big liner notes in my hands.    Thanks!

[Lefty052347]

I play vinyl and red book (computer) and some hi-rez.  I also have a synergy 300 hooked in that I often use for movies.  Since I have both, I can choose based on my taste.  The 300 might be the logical choice, but for music I still lean toward the Ultravalve.  I have a big enough and cool enough room that the heat coming off the Ultravalve is not an issue.  In a small LA apartment the heat might make a difference.  Also, the 300 is basically plug and play and may never need service.  The Ultravalve will need power tubes every 1-2 years (I average 15 months) and re-biasing once a month for best results.

Regards,
Dean

[EaRich]

That's cool info Lefty....or should I say "hot" info, would heat build up really be a problem in even a small living room?  The best time for me listening to music is late night, early AM (to be rid of life's noise) but I hope I will not have to have a noisy fan blowing on me and the Ultravalve just to stay cool while listening.    (If you remember the tall Black, sweating, guy back at AXPONA 2013, you'll see that it don't take much for me to break out in a cold sweat, like James Brown!) 

Anyway, I use a Logitech surround sound 5.1 system for TV, movies....could be better, but could be alot worse.  Pop some corn, and I'm at THX movie heaven!     My focus with the music is just that - music that suspends your belief and makes the speakers disappear!  I already will have to "tend to" the T7 tubes, right?  Doing the same for the Ultravalve won't be a problem if the end results is what I think it may be. 
Thanks Dean!

[Russell Dawkins]

From my experience with the earlier B&W 805 model, and I don't imagine the 805N is much different in this regard, you can benefit from all the control you can get in the bass region. In terms of amplifier choice, this would tend to favor higher powered solid state rather than tube output stages, for the higher damping factor and the control over the bass/mid driver this enables. My 805s were notable for their slight lack of control through the bass frequencies (read 'boominess'); in fact that's why I got rid of them as monitors in my studio - I could not make valid choices in the area of bass EQ on them.
So I would look for a solid state output stage with low output impedance/high damping factor.
I read that the 805N likes lots of power here ('simply adored loads of power'):
http://hometheaterreview.com/bw-nautilus-805-loudspeakers-reviewed/

Having enough low mid control will help eliminate that chesty sound from male vocals and also (and this is important to me) the muddiness that accompanies excess in the general region of 90 - 200Hz.

[EaRich]

Thanks for the input Russell!  Bass is very important to me also, and I've also read of the 805's liking lots of power...I've also read how AVA amps, across the board,  have very good if not excellent bass control, which is why I'm curious about the Ultravalve even with its low power.  I'm waiting to get Frank's input on this issue.  I'd be spending the same $$ either way, so the best overall sound wins out!  He's most likely busy getting components out to people who can afford them and are ready to buy now ....  I'm patient and I've got time. (...time or $$$ - not BOTH -seems to be the way of the world these days...)     Plus I know I can call and he will most likely be the one answering the phone. 

Question Russell, how much power were you senting to you 805s? And with what amp that you still saw the need to EQ them?  I have a Polk Audio sub woofer that I'm going to try (again) with my 805s.  Thanks!

[avahifi]

Given Russell's comments, I recommend the Synergy 300 for your 805 speakers.  It has over four times the power and will have the bass control and dynamics that you need for these speakers.  In addition it is bulletproof and will give you many years of great service and no adjustments or heat.

Use the $500 you save from the difference in purchase price between the cost of the Ultravalve and Synergy 300 and apply that to the Exicon upgrade to your T7 preamp.

In fact I really suggest you go for the Exicon upgrade to your preamp first. This is a real ear-opening improvement.

Feel free to call us for more help.  651-330-9871.  You can talk to either Dean or me.  We have discussed your application between ourselves here.

Frank Van Alstine

[Russell Dawkins]

Question Russell, how much power were you senting to you 805s? And with what amp that you still saw the need to EQ them?  I have a Polk Audio sub woofer that I'm going to try (again) with my 805s.  Thanks!

The amps I was using (one per side, vertically bi-amped) were really obscure Sugden AU31s. THey were made for Canada only, at the request of the Canadian distributor, I understand, and were around 100 watts per channel. So I sent 100 watts to the bass input and 100 watts to the tweeter input of each speaker.
Don't mis understand - I was not EQ'ing the speakers; I was referring to making judgements on the recordings I was mixing and mastering on these speakers - I could not get a handle on the bass sound because the speaker itself had too much "character" in the bass region and I was unable to listen through that character to make valid judgements when EQing the recording to sound correct in that region. To put it another way, many ported designs possess a "one note" character to some degree or another; in other words they have their own sound signature which is overlaid on all the sound that comes out of them. EQ'ing the speaker will not fix that, so I did the only thing I could do - I got rid of them!

I sold them to another studio which still has them to this day–20 years later and the engineer still loves them and gets good results, so it was a win-win.

I don't know how good the Polk sub is, but you might invest in some device to cut the bottom off your 805 and choose a relatively high crossover frequency, like 80Hz - that might get rid of some of the boominess. Good luck with that, though. I have always had poor results trying to mate a sub with a speaker that has a rise in the bass before it falls (typical of ported designs). I have never played with a good crossover, though, which would give you the luxury of not only precise choice of crossover frequencies but also steepness of slopes. I know Behringer is snorted at, but their DCX 2496 is a potent box for the purpose, but you would need some expertise to make it work for you.
For mating with subs, I find sealed box speakers are easier as they roll off in a more predictable way but, again, that may well not be an option for you, either.

P.S. I see that Frank responded. I would go with his recommendations and enjoy the improvement - and don't depend on the sub to get what you want. Dollars to doughnuts you won't make the bass better with it! Louder and deeper, maybe, but not better!

[EaRich]

Got 'cha Russell!   I've recently started doing some voiceover work for a studio in Hollywood that produces audio books for people with dyslexia and are legally blind. Have a home studio setup to do my recording there, and will be looking for some monitors down the road for some hobby percussion recording. .... 

OK Frank, the Senergy 300 it will be!  As far as the T7 EC is concerned, its been in storage (in Arlington, Tx) since 2005 ( I told the story some many post ago)..the plan is to get the rest of my stuff from Tx. to Los Angeles at the end of the year, but ship the T7 to you while in Tx. (less shipping cost)....if all goes well, I'll also be putting in my order for my amp at the same time or shortly there after.  Thanks to you and Dean!    

Earl

[Russell Dawkins]

Have a home studio setup to do my recording there, and will be looking for some monitors down the road for some hobby percussion recording. .... 
Earl

For those you ought to look at JBL LSR305s. Major bargain when they are on sale - or even when they're not!

[EaRich]

Will do....thanks!