[Elizabeth]

The vast majority of music sounds wonderful on the 20.7s.
The only problem I get into (living in an apartment building full of old codgers) is a few Rock LPs have super bass. Meant to churn the gut.. It is too much to be able to play in my apartment with the 20.7s.
Which meant it was for headphone play only. (sad)

It was passable with my previous 3.6 Maggies, but not OK with the 20.7s.
Way too much bass!

My main preamp is a Bryston BP-26. A nice preamp. Sadly no tone controls.
I use a VAC Standard as a fancy tube buffer for CD changer playback. It goes into the BP-26.. also no tone controls.
Then a third preamp. An Audio Research SP-15 I use for it really nice phono section. That too is plugged into the BP-26 Alas no tone contros there either.

I own a Onkyo Integra P308 I found at Goodwill for $20 (I also had the matching tuner which I sold)
It was sitting around doing nothing. But! It has tone controls.

I figured I could use the BP-26 tape monitor to pop the Onkyo tone controls in or out.. I had to (lucky for me the Rudistor has a output working even if turned off)
connect the Onkyo to the Rudistor (my headphone amp is taking up the Tape out jacks)
Then the Onkyo to Tape in on the BP-26

Works.

Now with the BP-26 I can loop in the Onkyo with the bass tone control -10dB at the click of a switch on the BP-26 (tape monitor switch)
So for those few Rock albums with too much bass I can still play them and not get evicted!

And to the consternation of all audiophiles everywhere I proudly have FOUR preamps in my main setup.

And in case one is wondering WTF would I pay for all those extra preamps..
The $6,000 list ARC SP-15 I got basically for free. (long story, no theft involved)
The VAC Standard $4,500 list but had $1,500 factory options added before I bought it third hand, I paid $1,400 for it.
The Onkyo Integra as  I wrote I paid $20 for

So for $20 I now have actual tone controls Whoo Hoo!
(and naturally I used a Kimber KS1016 1.5m costing $1,100 IC, and another Cardas Parsec $360
I had the cables laying around doing nothing anyway.)

I knew I would have some trouble with the 20.7 bass on some CDs.
I was hoping this solution would work. It does.

Now I just have to find a real space on the rack...(right now it is jury rigged up behind., to see if it even still worked, and to see if the setup would work.)

[SteveFord]

Necessity is the Mother of Invention.
I was wondering how you were going to deal with the bass output and now I know.

[Elizabeth]

The 20.7 bass is really perfect on so much music as it is.
The only problem was on those pesky big bass CDs. Most of the Rock music from back in the 60's 70's never had much real bass, But then with CD seems the bass started getting bigger and deeper. The occasional thump here or there in Classical is never a problem. It is the repetitive thumps that drive folks crazy. And Opera, I can play an aria LOUD! and it never matters.

The 20.7 is great as all Magnepans are at the bass not going through the wall much.
But in my building I just really never want the neighbors to ever complain about the noise. (and the bass is usually 100% of the problem noise)
So far in eleven years no one has ever complained about my music being too loud, and I don't want to start now! 

[Letitroll98]

I think it's a great story on two levels Elizabeth.  One story is the four preamps which are essentially one preamp functioning as such with a tube buffer, phono pre, and axillary tone controls attached.  And somewhere a headphone amp working as intended.  So not at all crazy if you look at it that way, I've had similar cobbled together systems in the past.  I'm assuming you like the sonics from the Bryston better than the ARC or the VAC?

The other story is hifi audio in apartments or condos.  Yes, bass is always the problem.  I have a ground floor condo in which the music rooms, den and living room, have no common walls with neighbors and share only a ceiling with upstairs neighbours.  I'm friendly with upstairs, they both work third shift and sleep during the day, so all my serous listening is at night, no bass problem.  However I'm considering a senior living apartment building and I'm concerned about losing the ability to use my stereo system.  How do you manage that without complaints?  I would think that even moderate levels with normal music would be a problem.

[Chris Adams]

Thanks for this thread, Elizabeth. You've given me some good ideas.

[Elizabeth]

The other story is hifi audio in apartments or condos.  However I'm considering a senior living apartment building and I'm concerned about losing the ability to use my stereo system.  How do you manage that without complaints?  I would think that even moderate levels with normal music would be a problem.

I have lived in an apartment one way or another all my life.
Back when i was younger, and lived in a place with all younger folks, I could blast away and never think twice about it.
In middle age I was a bit quieter, wanting peace more than wanting to boogie.
Figuring being quiet myself was the way to be able to ask for it in return. So I started listening at lower levels. And to really blast away some Rock music late at night I got headphones. (Now I have a Rudistor RPX33 mk2 headamp and some Sennheiser HD800 phones)

My last move, a few years before retiring to a 'over 55' building.. I LOVE the fact it is really quiet. daytime ambient noise 35dB (think in downtown area, but next to park) and i really never hear anyone. Night time mid/low 20dB! I can hear trains rumbling a mile away if the wind is right. It is really quiet, way quieter than any other building I ever lived in.
Anyway, I just play music quieter too. averaging mid 50dB playing Classical in mornings. And really usually around 70dB max. Averaging mid 60's dB all day, on a typical day. ("C" weighted, at listening chair)

I also have (accidentally) a sort of corner apartment. The living room wall is the next door neighbors bedroom wall. So normal daytime they do not hear as much.
Though if a day sleeper moved in there, it might become an issue! all other side walls are mine alone as they are the hallway walls, which wrap around to the side of my apartment.
Above and below I never hear anything from their apartments, no TV, nothing. (as if they were empty.. Though once every two weeks I do hear music from above for an hour. I think it is a cleaning lady they hire, masking her activities?)

I also like the fact Magnepans bass just does not go through walls the way a cone woofer bass does. It seems the softer Magnepan bass 'attack' keeps a lot of the wall penetration down.
Then the style of bass. The annoying noise folks most complain about is a steady "thump thump thump thump". Any syncopation in the bass notes and the annoyance level drops dramatically. So I avoid most of the 'bad' sort of bass, and find it really boring anyway!
As I mentioned, Opera arias I can play a lot louder, since the music is not going through the walls much. But even those are still below 80dB (averaged) peaks.

Another plus with my new Magnepan 20.7 is they can play softer, and still be really clearer sounding than the 3.6 Magnepans could. particularly in the midrange.

Anyway, Over all, over the years I have just trained myself to listen at lower levels.
Yes it might be said it is not as exciting as blasting away.. But it is still wonderful music. And IMO as I listen at lower levels, and being used to it, it is really great.
I KNOW folks who usually listen at louder levels, and then they get it turned down, the sound sucks.
I think that is a psychological thing. But if one really just keeps the level lower, the ear and brain adjust over a time until it just sounds right at the lower levels. The biggest plus is I am no longer making myself gradually go deaf from overexposure!
And when I do blast away, up to 80dB, it really seems LOUD!
(when  I go to a dealer and audition, they always start the music at like 90dB. I turn it down, and actually bring my dB meter to adjust it.)

Also, when you move in. totally resist the temptation to crank it up.
I have to say folks here who move in and the same day, with the windows open crank up the music, get told in clear terms, noise and eviction go hand in hand.
Maybe once a year someone moves in and start right off with music blasting away. Funny it stops pretty soon. I have also called and complained about it!
Then the other little old ladies.. and men too. they gossip, and tell each other to complain! So any rash events get the management involved. (getting a three day notice to quit or evict is scary)
But now I have been here 11 years.. If I make a little noise, it is more 'forgivable'
So my once in awhile making some noise other might be able to hear is not so terrible. But I try hard not to make any noise someone might complain about.
The manager, when I asked, said he had never even heard any music coming from my apartment at all (which is a great complement considering I play music all day every day!)

And they certainly know about my stereo and music collection. there is a yearly 'inspection' which I think is really to see if the people are still physically functioning and able to care for themselves..  and not hoarding trash or getting bugs and such stuff. So they see all my 4,500 records, and 2,500 CDs and piles of equipment.. (I am wondering if they will notice my speakers 'grew' (I bought the same color and trim larger Magnepans.) LOL)

Anyway, I have no problems with playing music in 'over 55' senior apartments.

[johnto]

It's wonderful that you are enjoying your new Maggie's. I would invite neighbors over for a coffee and music hour it might give you a chance to blast and make them less likely to complain if the occasion did arise.

[rollo]

  You got it down Elizabeth. Lower listening levels has another advantage. Saves one's hearing. Enjoy as I'm sure you do.

charles

[TomS]

I have lived in an apartment one way or another all my life.
Back when i was younger, and lived in a place with all younger folks, I could blast away and never think twice about it.
In middle age I was a bit quieter, wanting peace more than wanting to boogie.
Figuring being quiet myself was the way to be able to ask for it in return. So I started listening at lower levels. And to really blast away some Rock music late at night I got headphones. (Now I have a Rudistor RPX33 mk2 headamp and some Sennheiser HD800 phones)

My last move, a few years before retiring to a 'over 55' building.. I LOVE the fact it is really quiet. daytime ambient noise 35dB (think in downtown area, but next to park) and i really never hear anyone. Night time mid/low 20dB! I can hear trains rumbling a mile away if the wind is right. It is really quiet, way quieter than any other building I ever lived in.
Anyway, I just play music quieter too. averaging mid 50dB playing Classical in mornings. And really usually around 70dB max. Averaging mid 60's dB all day, on a typical day. ("C" weighted, at listening chair)

I also have (accidentally) a sort of corner apartment. The living room wall is the next door neighbors bedroom wall. So normal daytime they do not hear as much.
Though if a day sleeper moved in there, it might become an issue! all other side walls are mine alone as they are the hallway walls, which wrap around to the side of my apartment.
Above and below I never hear anything from their apartments, no TV, nothing. (as if they were empty.. Though once every two weeks I do hear music from above for an hour. I think it is a cleaning lady they hire, masking her activities?)

I also like the fact Magnepans bass just does not go through walls the way a cone woofer bass does. It seems the softer Magnepan bass 'attack' keeps a lot of the wall penetration down.
Then the style of bass. The annoying noise folks most complain about is a steady "thump thump thump thump". Any syncopation in the bass notes and the annoyance level drops dramatically. So I avoid most of the 'bad' sort of bass, and find it really boring anyway!
As I mentioned, Opera arias I can play a lot louder, since the music is not going through the walls much. But even those are still below 80dB (averaged) peaks.

Another plus with my new Magnepan 20.7 is they can play softer, and still be really clearer sounding than the 3.6 Magnepans could. particularly in the midrange.

Anyway, Over all, over the years I have just trained myself to listen at lower levels.
Yes it might be said it is not as exciting as blasting away.. But it is still wonderful music. And IMO as I listen at lower levels, and being used to it, it is really great.
I KNOW folks who usually listen at louder levels, and then they get it turned down, the sound sucks.
I think that is a psychological thing. But if one really just keeps the level lower, the ear and brain adjust over a time until it just sounds right at the lower levels. The biggest plus is I am no longer making myself gradually go deaf from overexposure!
And when I do blast away, up to 80dB, it really seems LOUD!
(when  I go to a dealer and audition, they always start the music at like 90dB. I turn it down, and actually bring my dB meter to adjust it.)

Also, when you move in. totally resist the temptation to crank it up.
I have to say folks here who move in and the same day, with the windows open crank up the music, get told in clear terms, noise and eviction go hand in hand.
Maybe once a year someone moves in and start right off with music blasting away. Funny it stops pretty soon. I have also called and complained about it!
Then the other little old ladies.. and men too. they gossip, and tell each other to complain! So any rash events get the management involved. (getting a three day notice to quit or evict is scary)
But now I have been here 11 years.. If I make a little noise, it is more 'forgivable'
So my once in awhile making some noise other might be able to hear is not so terrible. But I try hard not to make any noise someone might complain about.
The manager, when I asked, said he had never even heard any music coming from my apartment at all (which is a great complement considering I play music all day every day!)

And they certainly know about my stereo and music collection. there is a yearly 'inspection' which I think is really to see if the people are still physically functioning and able to care for themselves..  and not hoarding trash or getting bugs and such stuff. So they see all my 4,500 records, and 2,500 CDs and piles of equipment.. (I am wondering if they will notice my speakers 'grew' (I bought the same color and trim larger Magnepans.) LOL)

Anyway, I have no problems with playing music in 'over 55' senior apartments.

This post is gold. Thanks for taking the time for such a thoughtful, thorough, and helpful post 

I definitely need to "re-train" myself to lower levels.

[rollo]

  You will be happy you did. Actually you will discern more of the music that way.

charles

[Pryso]

Elizabeth, I'm a little curious.  If your SP-15 is in good condition, which I assume it is or that would be noticed on phono, have you ever tried that as your full service preamp in place of the Bryston?

I appreciate we all have slightly different preferences in what we enjoy.  My very limited exposure to Bryston components (not necessarily the BP-26) was they were a bit sterile sounding, missing some musical life.  So not saying you should feel the same, but I would be interested in how the SP-15 compares full duty?

[artur9]

Great stories, great system.  I find that much music is played too loudly and I fear for the hearing of those involved.

I wonder if you would find something like the Schiit Loki useful?

[Elizabeth]

Elizabeth, I'm a little curious.  If your SP-15 is in good condition, which I assume it is or that would be noticed on phono, have you ever tried that as your full service preamp in place of the Bryston?

I appreciate we all have slightly different preferences in what we enjoy.  My very limited exposure to Bryston components (not necessarily the BP-26) was they were a bit sterile sounding, missing some musical life.  So not saying you should feel the same, but I would be interested in how the SP-15 compares full duty?

My BP-26 is really great sounding. I like it.
(it is now in the TAS recommended components)
In a pinch I could use the ARC SP-15 as the main preamp.
The primary reason I do NOT use it is the three tube phone section. Which is on whenever the preamp is on. Otherwise it could do just fine.

The Bryston BP-26 I can leave on 24/7

The ARC SP-15 I use only when I am using it to play LPs from my Kuzma TT.
I really want to save the tubes near forever if I can, So i would never use it and just be burning the tubes without actually using them.

[Elizabeth]

I wonder if you would find something like the Schiit Loki useful?

I did not know about that item.
Looked at the Schiit Loki. I might consider it.
Right now the Onkyo is like... free.

[dB Cooper]

The Loki came to mind for me too. Given the rest of the system, the price doesn't seem to break the bank.

[Elizabeth]

The Loki came to mind for me too. Given the rest of the system, the price doesn't seem to break the bank.

The Onkyo is a pretty good Integra top of the line (in it's day) unit and still worth $350 used. (new in Japan in the mid 80's to early 90s. it was 130,000yen)
(I have heard good Onkyo stuff and it is good. IMO.)
It sound just fine.
Why should I spend another $150 to do a lateral? Does not make sense to me. Plus all it would do in place the Onkyo back in the closet what it had sat for 6 years anyway..
If something happens to the Onkyo, the Schiit might be worth buying.
And no I do not think the device I am using is any 'worse' than a $150 gizmo.

Plus I may add on a 3rd TT I have laying around (Dual Golden One with a Dynavector Ruby 23) and use the Onkyo phono for it. The P308 phono was considered to be pretty good.