Questions (and lots of them)....

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nrenter

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Questions (and lots of them)....
« on: 18 Jan 2003, 10:03 pm »
I sent these questions to Klaus, but I'd bet he's been too swamped to reply. So....I thought I'd see if the general community has some of these answers.

1. How heavily biased into class A is the Stratos xtreme monoblock? In the Odyssey trade show review section, the "Audiophile Voice" states the first 35 watts are class A for the standard Stratos amps. How does that translate to the xtreme monoblocks?

2. What can you tell me about the phono stage in the Tempest? I, too, am a big believer in the "biggest bang for the buck", and I don't like to pay for
features that I won't use. Does Odyssey offer the option to omit the phono stage, or perhaps to upgrade the phono stage to "reference quality"? Can the impedance of the phono input be modified to match the MM/MC cartridge of the turntable?

3. How about HT passthrough for the Tempest - can this be made available?

4. Do any of you have opinions about the synergy of the Odyssey amps/pre-amps and any of the Vandersteen speaker line (particularly the 3A Signatures)?

5. What other components do y'all feel offer the "biggest bang for the buck"? CD players? Turntables? Interconnects / speaker cables?

Yeah, that's a lot of topics for a single thread. But what the hell...let's give it a whirl.

Thanks,
Nicholas Renter

mgalusha

Re: Questions (and lots of them)....
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jan 2003, 11:01 pm »
Quote from: nrenter
4. Do any of you have opinions about the synergy of the Odyssey amps/pre-amps and any of the Vandersteen speaker line (particularly the 3A Signatures)?


Nicholas,

I found the Stratos to work very well with the 3A sigs. I was using a stereo Stratos with the cap upgrade and was for the most part pleased with the sound of this combination.

However... I had a strong desire to experience the sound of tube amplification in my system and built a pair of 100 watt tube mono blocks. Once the tube amps were sorted out I found I preferred the sound of the tube amps. There are of course some drawbacks, the main being some lack of control of the bass. I have a pair of 2WQ subs in the system, so the main amps are high passed at 80hz. This helps the bass situation considerably but it's still shy of the control offered by the Stratos. In addition at high levels the tube amps can sound somewhat congested with the 3A's. I don't think the amps are clipping but perhaps the back emf from the woofers is causing a problem.

That said, I sent my Stratos in for the xtreme upgrade. I spoke with Klaus last weekend and they were supposed to ship on Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, so they should arrive here in a few days. :) From all reports (and from hearing a Stratos DM) I expect to get the best of both with the new mono's. The xtreme's should drive the 3A's with ease and great control. With the improvements in the power supply and the faster caps on the board, I am hoping they will be very smooth. Of course they will need a few weeks of break in to begin sounding their best but I can deal with that. :)

Hope that helps. I will post some impressions of how this combo works together once they get settled in.

Mike

jcoat007

Questions (and lots of them)....
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jan 2003, 12:29 pm »
mgalusha:

I am very interested in how the 3A sigs respond to the xtreme monos.  I have the same setup (3a sigs and dual 2Wq subs).  Please post your impressions when you get them back.  My monos are in for the upgrade right now.  

nrenter:

1)  I don't know
2)  I don't know
3)  No HT passthrough.  If it had an HT passthrough and a remote control  I would have tried the Tempest.  Klaus says it is a match made in heaven.  
4)  I have been very happy with my monos and the 3A sigs.  I am looking forward to being even  happier after the upgrade.
5)  This question could be debated until the end of time and there is no right answer.  I am using primarily Zu Cables www.zucables.com, but Bolder Cables www.boldercables.com also makes some outstanding products at reasonable prices.  

Good luck.

klaus@odyssey

Questions (and lots of them)....
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jan 2003, 06:30 am »
Hi Nicholas,

Sorry about the delay,  just got back from another trip.
Anyway,  as for your answers:

1.  Originally a couple of years ago,  we stated that the amps would be 30 + W. class A,  which is quite possible.  However,  in reality,  and because of the final biasing of our current amps,  it's more like 10 W.,  and even that varies depending on circumstances.  With the Xtreme reference edition monos,  we're biasing the amps a bit hotter,  but probably still in the same ballpark.

However,  as with all Symphonic Line amps,  it really doesn't make a difference since the x-over to AB  is absolutely impossible to detect.  The SL designs are 100 % coherent in this regard.
Yes,  I know the saying " the first Watt is the most important one "  " pure class A is the best sounding"  etc, etc, etc.  Truth is,  all of this is just soso.  Doesn't tell you as to how it sounds.  With bad amps,  you can tell a difference in the x-over from a class A to AB or B,  just as you can in a speaker with a bad x-over.  So what,  we're talking SL here.

2.  As for the Tempest,  yes,  it's exactly the same bang for the buck.  Actually,  the Tempest is pretty much identical to the RG 2,  which now retails for $ 3,200. in Germany.  However,  the phono is an integral part of the circuitry,  and we can't just take it out.  There are manufacturer who simply forego connections to the phono stage that is also inherent in the designs,  and charge an extra 100's of $ just to add a couple of RCA connectors to something that's already there.  %^*$#@%$@!% them.  that's exactly why I'm doing Odyssey.

However,  interestingly enough,  for those of you who might not want phono,  we have the possibility to use that part of the connectors and area of the board to customize an AV  bypass.  We already did that a few times,  and essentially,  we're looking at about $ 5.  in parts,  but about 1-2 hrs of labor.  I think we charged somewhere around $ 50.  for that upgrade.

With the phono stage,  it's both,  MM and MC selectable,  and the sound quality is pretty darn good.  Keep in mind that the Stratos / Tempest is essentially the big RG 10 integrated amp in Germany,  which is teh daily reference integrated unit for a couple of mags over there,  and the phono stages have been reviewed very nicely.

So,  you can either have the Tempest with the phono stage,  or with an HT bypass,  but not both.

3.  Vandersteens.  Man,  what can I say.  Since 1987, I've probably heard any sort of SL / Vandy combination dozens of times. .  Our local dealer here pushed that combination,  and I've heard quite a few combinations of RG 1,  RG 4's, Stratos stereo or monos / Vandy 1's, 2's 3's and 5's.  Always the same result:  very, very nice.  The amps have the speaker under control,  no brainer.  The high end of the Vandy's,  which can be somewhat of a problem in some unmatched systems,  is always sweet and extended.   So,  as for synergy,  it's probably in the top 10 for the Stratos.

4. Man,  there's a lot of good gear out there that would qualify.  A lot.  Depends on the budget, the rest of your system (synergy rules), and your listening preferences.  What about your room acoustics ?  Bright,  lots of glass / mirrors, etc.  or dark and damped,  carpet / lots of heavy furniture / etc.  Speakers more against the wall or out in the room ???  Facing the short or the long wall ??  Ceiling height ?  Side clearence ???  When you're talking synergy,  there are dozens of factors at work,  that's why there are so many successful tweaks that diminish problem areas.  However,  if care has been taken from the get-go,  you're far ahead of the curve already.  Let me know what exactly you're looking for,  or best yet,  call me at 317 299 5578,  so that we can discuss all of these issues at great length.  Just make sure you have a couple of hours,  this can take long.

Later,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey

Questions (and lots of them)....
« Reply #4 on: 21 Jan 2003, 05:20 am »
We messed around a bit today,  and came up with an alternative AV  bypass,  which allows us to keep both,  MM and MC phono.

SO,  yes,  you can have both,  and the HT  bypass is a $ 75.  option.

That's a total of $ 1025.  for a $ 3,200 SL RG 2 with the extra AV bp,  hehehe.

Later,
Klaus

nrenter

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Thanks for the reply...
« Reply #5 on: 21 Jan 2003, 02:44 pm »
Klaus,

Thanks for the reply.

I will definately take you up on your offer to chat sometime. I'll probably wait until I'm a bit closer to pulling the trigger, though. No sense taking up too much of your time until I'm ready to drop some coin. Besides, you've got monoblocks to upgrade. :)

About the N805s...I love the way they sound. The drivers are pretty close to being time-aligned (the tweeter should be recessed just a bit more). It doesn't attempt to reproduce frequencies that it can't (and that's why I think it's a good match for the REL Strata III). Waterfall and impulse plots are impressive. And they look great (part of the reason they cost more than they should). They were one of the few speakers my wife found acceptable (both sonically and aesthetically) for our living room.

My only gripe is that they sound like point sources - especially when compared with the Vander line (and their 1st order crossovers). My first encounter with the Vandersteen line was an interesting one. I didn't know the first thing about the line. I was listening to the 2Ce Sigs and was pretty critical of them. Low end was ok, but a little flabby (probably due to the Rogue 99 / 88 driving them). Imaging was really good. Accuracy was dead on. I thought to myself, "Not bad for a $5k speaker." It wasn't until later when I was doing some research on the Vandersteens did I realize that the 2Ce Sigs were closer to $1,500.00. When I went back and listened to the 3A Sigs (with McCormack hardware driving them), I was floored. With all the rave reviews on the Odyssey monos, I can only imagine what that combo would sound like.

The one thing to add to this discussion is that I predominately listen to a wide range of rock - from Tool to Uncle Tupelo, from Dead Can Dance to Nine Inch Nails. I also used to work in concert halls while in college doing recording / engineering / sound production (classical mostly). I think this sort of information is important for these sorts of discussions to articulate what I feel is important in an audio system. I want to feel the tight percussive slam that Tool can deliver. I want the transparent experience of a porch-side folk jam. I want to hear the ambiance of the concert hall. I want the listening experience to be like watching a movie with my eyes closed.

That all being said, I highly doubt that I would ever get rid of my N805s. I'll always have a use for them.

That's great news about the HT bypass.

As for the phono section, right now I'm leaning towards a Teres (www.teresaudio.com). Not sure about the arm or cartridge yet. I just wanted to make sure that phono section would been an acceptable match.

No reply necessary. I appreciate that you took the time to reply to my questions, and I wanted to let you know that before I call, I'll e-mail you ahead of time so *you* can block off a couple of hours.

I'm rambling...

Thanks again,
Nicholas Renter

klaus@odyssey

Questions (and lots of them)....
« Reply #6 on: 21 Jan 2003, 03:01 pm »
Hi Nicholas,

Actually,  do call me because of the long back order.

Chazz

N805s and Monos
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jan 2003, 05:06 pm »
Hi,

I thought I'd pipe up here as I have own both the N805s and the standard Odysee Monos.

First off, I love the N805s.  I still own my first ever hifi speakers, the DM302s, and the sound of these are what got me onto the B&W line.  One day I bit the bullet and bought the N805s  8)

Of all the components that I have bought, CD Transports, DACs, preamps etc, it was the Odyssey Monos that made the biggest difference.  First off, the soundstage widened and deepened.  Depending on the recording imaging occurs upto 1m outside and behind the speakers.  I listen to both soft acoustics and techno dance.  Both sound great, especially the bass impact on the dance.  I considered getting a Rel Strata III but I really don't need it in my small room.

Simply put.  They are an awesome combination.  I haven't heard the Vanderstein line so I can't comment on them but I am extremely happy with my current set up.

Regards,