My new Beta 12LTA over H-frame Alpha build

same64 · « **Reply #60 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 09:58 am »

Hi

Did anybody took the measument how low 12LTA goes on the baffle?.
I've set 250-300 hz on my miniDSP .
I was looking at the Yung plate but it goes only up to 200hz .And if the 12LTA dont go that low than is not optimum.
At them moment im running tubes on hights and old NAD on lowes.

my build below.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #61 on:** 29 Oct 2012, 11:33 am »

Nice build my friend.

Replacing the dust cap with a phase plug will smooth out the highs on the 12LTA.

same64 · « **Reply #62 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 09:39 am »

Hi
Still bit worried about the surgery:-)
I must say i do enjoy OB a lot. And wondering what else i can do to improve them even more.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #63 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 01:02 pm »

I really like the B&G Neo 3 tweeter and I just swapped out the Daytons with two Yung SD300 plate amps.

Removing the dust caps is easier than you think. The raised ridge keeps the exacto blade on track. It would be hard to mess up.

The ebay seller reneged on the 3 way Behringer crossover so I bid and won a Rane 3 way. Looking forward to giving it a go.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #64 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 01:23 pm »

Here are the Yung plate amps with the garage OBs. Nice tight detailed bass with the Alphas.

same64 · « **Reply #65 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 03:01 am »

How is the B&G Neo 3 tweeter experiment going?.

regards

Guy 13 · « **Reply #66 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 03:25 am »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 8 Nov 2012, 01:23 pm

Here are the Yung plate amps with the garage OBs. Nice tight detailed bass with the Alphas.

Hi Poultrygeist and all Audio Circle members.
The shelves packed with all sort of (useful) things must act as a good diffuser?
Guy 13

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #67 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 12:24 pm »

The Neo 3's are a delight. I now use the 2 way Behringer CX2310 for just the Neo 3's ( high ) and the Beta's ( low ) by selecting the x10 frequency on the back. The plate amps control the Alpha's with their crossover settings. I use a single cap on the Neo 3's for protection and drive it with a Topping T-21 tripath amp.

I tried a Behringer 3 way but returned it to PE as the cheaper 2 way is better IMO. The Rane I bought off ebay was DOA and I got a refund. Lesson learned - used pro-audio gear can mean "rode hard and put up wet".

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #68 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 12:40 pm »

same64,

Here is the easy removal of the 12LTA dust cap with an Exacto blade. The inner lip keeps the cut on line and mistake free. I'm using a Lazy Susan ( remember those? ) to spin the driver but it's not necessary. I gradually sliced deeper with each turn.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #69 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 12:50 pm »

After a few revolutions with the Exacto blade held stationary the dust cap comes right out. I've performed lots of dust cap surgeries but this is the easiest one yet and it takes the Beta to a new level especially with the wooden egg phase plugs. FWIW I used 4 screws in the base of the phase plugs ( picture in this thread only shows 2 ).

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #70 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 12:58 pm »

Prying off the rear cover of the Bohlender Graebener Neo 3 so it can be used in an open baffle. An old dull smooth blade knife works well for this.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #71 on:** 1 Jan 2013, 01:06 pm »

This is the gear I use with the Beta 12LTA's over H-frame Alpha's

same64 · « **Reply #72 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 08:53 am »

have you tried minidsp?.i never used Behringer crossover so cant coment but Minidsp is really good.http://www.minidsp.com/
At moment i have only two way but will get one more to run as 3 or even 4 way if i like.
Just finished TH2050 mulltichannel power amp ,that makes much user friendly instead of running few amps .
Next B&G Neo 3:-)

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #73 on:** 2 Jan 2013, 02:52 pm »

I know the Minidsp would probably be an upgrade over the analog Behringer but I like having controls to make adjustments on the fly. I'm not sure that's possible with the Minidsp but perhaps I wouldn't feel the need to if I had one??? I don't even have a handle on what points I'm actually using as I adjust by ear and the control markings are vague.

I've also read that the gentle 12 db slope was preferred over the steeper 24 db slopes on systems such as this. The Pioneer electronic crossovers from the 70's and early 80's which use the gentler slopes are grabbed up fast on ebay. One member on AK uses one of the vintage Pioneer crossovers with his expensive Lowther based OB's.

I'm just getting my feet wet with electronic crossovers and have much to learn. I'd love to know more about the Behringer DCX2496 and might consider it but the Red Spade audio site said it's not a good match with tube preamps??? But others have said it is?

frperdurabo · « **Reply #74 on:** 13 Jan 2013, 08:49 pm »

I used the Behringer about ten years ago and thought it sounded pretty "digital" ie, hard, glassy, fatiguing. OK for prototyping but not to live with long term. YMMV, obviously, and of course ten years is a lifetime for digital products - new ones may be much improved.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #75 on:** 13 Jan 2013, 11:19 pm »

Yesterday my friend listened to my system and gave nothing but high praise. I trust his ear as it puts bread on his table as he's a pro violinist with the SC and Charlotte Phil. He's also an amp builder with some fine gear. We momentarily tried the Miniwatt SET on the Neo 3's but it ran out of gas. I'm now driving the Neo 3's with a Dayton DTA-100 which seems better than the less powerful Topping.

Russellc · « **Reply #76 on:** 15 Jan 2013, 06:53 pm »

Say, wondering about the sensitivity of the bass and full range drivers compared to the planer tweeter.
Specs for the bass and mid are an identical claim of 97 dB, 1w/1m, whereas the planer tweeter is only 90 dB, but measured 2.83v/1m instead of the 1w/1m of the other two drivers. Do these 2 different measurements make it look this different, (90 dB vs 97 db) and if measured the same would be closer, or are you turning down the sensitivity of the full range/bass units via electronic crossover?

Russellc

this_is_vv · « **Reply #77 on:** 15 Jan 2013, 08:16 pm »

Quote from: Russellc on 15 Jan 2013, 06:53 pm

Say, wondering about the sensitivity of the bass and full range drivers compared to the planer tweeter.
Specs for the bass and mid are an identical claim of 97 dB, 1w/1m, whereas the planer tweeter is only 90 dB, but measured 2.83v/1m instead of the 1w/1m of the other two drivers. Do these 2 different measurements make it look this different, (90 dB vs 97 db) and if measured the same would be closer, or are you turning down the sensitivity of the full range/bass units via electronic crossover?

Russellc

If i may add...i had same setup....and the mid used to come so forward....now i have changed to Scan speak 18w as mid and Raal 140-15d as tweeter ./...now my tweeter is 95 and mid is 89db...so i had to manually adjust the gain to meet them at 90 and now everything comes on proper...though it feel like that the voice is little mellow down but now i understand the quality more clearly...

again humbly its my own opinion...

V

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #78 on:** 16 Jan 2013, 12:16 am »

On the 2 way Behringer I turn up the gain on the neo3 ( high ) and dial back on the Beta output ( low ). The Betas play rather high anyway and the 4 ohm Neo's seem more efficient than their specs indicate ( I have both models ). With the Neo's high hats shimmer and float in space as if they're in the room.

Luigi · « **Reply #79 on:** 16 Jan 2013, 07:47 pm »

Hi Guys

My OB project is broadly similar, another take on a similar theme. Hope I'm not interloping here.

I'm using Hawthorne PSI 15 (which normally runs fully open in the Solo setting) and have a set of TAD drivers (2001s I think, from memory) that screw into the back of the PSI 15 so dual concentric arrangement.

Had been messing for a long time with series passive crossover but changed lately to miniDSP active crossover and instantly got better results (in half a day vs half a year of faffing with passives). By being able to reduce the output to the TADs I can get them to integrate more convincingly with the PSI 15s. The TADs had always seemed a bit sharp and I guess it was because they were just being more sensitive than the PSI 15s.

Im bringing the TADs in from about 2500Hz and letting the PSI 15s run to 5000. With LR24 slopes there's almost a straight line on the miniDSP crossover, with little in the way of dip at the point where the two slopes cross. I have no measuring equipment so am doing everything by ear.

Just wondering whether I'm all at sea with crossover points. Would it be better to forsake the straight line on the miniDSP (ie, allow a dip where the two lines intersect) and let the Hawthorne stop at 2500, with the TADs taking over from there?