[yyz67]

Has anyone heard the PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Omegas (or any speakers)?

Expen$ive as-all-get-out but owners of it say it is almost the last word in extracting detail from 44/16 material. It upsamples PCM to 10xDSD then downsamples to 2xDSD before a simple passive output filter.  I've been talking with the designer who is convinced of DSD's intrinsic natural sound quality.

[Canada Rob]

However.....Resonessnce Labs has sent me a Herus+ and Concero HD to try out.  Maybe they will topple the Audio Zone DAC 1 (and my very similar Audio Sector DAC) from it's podium.  So far no DAC I have tried has, but that could change.  Stay tuned.

First I tried the Herus+ with IEMs and then on my main reference system.   

For a tiny little USB powered DAC/amp/preamp selling for a little over 400 bucks it's amazing, and the closest to my reference DAC I recall hearing.  I don't recall hearing these IEMs sound as good as heard on the Herus+.  The headstage is big, noise and hiss 0, sound is detailed and liquid without any harshness, and midrange is perfection.  It will drive IEMs to big hard to drive cans no problem.

In the stereo system the Herus+ also shone.  The sonic qualities are similar to the IEMs, with big soundstage, and....incredible bottom end.  Imaging is 3D, and generally, it's sonic qualities nipping at the heals of my more expensive reference DAC. 

Here is what the Herus+ is: USB DAC/headphone amp for computer, DAC/headphone amp that will take the digital out of an iPod, iPhone, iPad, or Android for a killer portable headphone rig or physically tiny front end for a home stereo system, and a DAC preamp for a home stereo.  It will handle 16/44 to DXD.  It has it's own volume control and three selectable filters, along with a power saving mode.  It's analog output is 2.4 volts. 

Build quality (machined out of a solid chunk of aluminum) is off the charts, and it is designed and built right here in the Okanagan valley in B.C.
See link: http://resonessencelabs.com/herus-2/

[kirch]

I had the Audio Note Kits Dac 2.1b Sig. with my Omega XRS Alnico 8 speakers, and with other speakers. Unfortunately I had to sell the dac due to an unexpected financial need. Wish I still had it!    If your not into building one Digital Pete will at a reasonable price.

Chris

Before sinking a ton of bux into a solid state DAC, be sure and audition a tube dac in your setup. I think you might be surprised at how it can transform a system.  I use the Audio Note 3.1 built by Digital Pete. 

Also have the benchmark solid state dac. Far too analytical for my ears especially with the Omegas.

[Canada Rob]

Add another really good sounding DAC to my favorites list.  The Resonessence labs Concero HD.  It can be controlled by an Apple remote to do all sorts of things.  It can be powered by USB, wall power USB, and battery.  What I like about the Concero HD and the Herus+ is their musicality at the bit rates I've tried.  A lot of the "modern" DACs don't do 16/44 well - these do.

[JLM]

Agreed that current DAC design has been chasing higher formats, yet most of our music is still Redbook, so Redbook sound quality is what I primarily look for.  Couple of off the beaten path recommendations (not specific to Omega):

Halide Design DAC HD: $450 with captive high quality USB (up to 7 meters long) and RCA cables; tiny custom milled aluminum enclosure; simple (no drivers/plug-n-play, displays, or controls); 24 bit/96 kHz; 2014 Stereophile Class A rated; asynchronous design, uses Gordon Rankin's (of Wavelength) Streamlength protocol to reduce jitter.  The sound: seductive/smooth; ease/purity; deep/agile bass; not dry/ruthless; delicacy with power; an ideal balance between resolution and tone; analog/organic; does a good job of imaging and expressing the original space.

dB Audio Tranquility DAC: $1500 USB/RCA only; Eric has optimized for the Mini and will share "secrets" to tweak setup; all the buzz (48 pages) for this NOS unit started in the Critic's Circle 5 years ago, but if smooth/analog with slightly rolled off highs is your bag, its still hard to beat (Redbook only).

Chord Hugo: $2450, small custom milled aluminum enclosure for this portable DAC/headphone amp; handles all formats (even Bluetooth) via unique and superior Chord FPGA circuits versus simple off the shelf DAC chips; from professional reviews it even handedly does amazing detail, texture, timbre, tactile, speed, natural tone, transparency, layered imaging, holographic soundstage, dynamics with masterful "rightness", clarity, precision, bass control, rich/present midrange, treble delicately extended without grain or excess (makes Redbook sound more like hi-res).  Comparable sound quality DACs (without headphone amp or being portable) start north of $5000.

[TimF]

This may be a bit off the original posters intent but thought I would share. A Naim-Audio Uniti-Qute at $2300 can kill a couple things in one fell swoop, amplification and DAC. While I know most prefer tubes and also the ability to have separate amp and DAC, I would think the Qute would work extremely well with the Hoyt and maybe also the Omegas in general. Worth a shot, as I know someone that has tried this and I trust his ears. Everyone's mileage varies though...

[Canada Rob]

There are getting to be quite a few amp/DACs coming on the market and they're usually compact in dimensions.  What would be nice is if they could take the straight digital out of an iPhone, Pod, Pad, Android etc.  Maybe they can, I don't know.  NAD, PS Audio, Denon, Micromega, Sony, Wyred 4 Sound, and no doubt others are making these cool little combos.  Features like preamp, headphone amp, phono stage, and Bluetooth are in some of them too.  Most are relatively low powered and would likely make a nice mate for Omega speakers.  I also love their compact dimensions, often eliminating the need of an audio rack with all it's unsightly gubbins.  An affordable, very compact, and very high performance front end for a pair of Omegas would be the Resonessence Labs Herus+ being fed directly by an iPod, etc into a Decware Super Zen.  The whole front end could fit on a little shelf almost out of sight - nice lifestyle system.

[roscoe65]

Rob,

Almost all USB DAC's can take audio from tablets and phones if the OS allows it.  In IOS devices, the Camera Connection Kit allows USB connection and in Android the latest release generally allows USB connection.  What I have found that most USB DAC's work without added drivers with all Apple products, with drivers in Windows products, without drivers in some Android products, and not at all with Chromebooks.

While I appreciate the compact, all-in-one nature of DAC/Amps (I personally own an NAD D3020, which is an excellent amp/dac) as a hobbyist and one who frequently upgrades I have found that separating the DAC and Amp sections not only protects me against obsolescence or failure of one component, it allows me to pick and choose precisely the devices I want in my system(s).

The NAD D3020 serves as a great all-in-one solution for driving a pair of Dynaco A25XL's in my living room, while my main listening rig is more specific - Apple mini - DB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Custom SE 421A amp - Omega Super 3i speakers.  While the NAD/Dynaco combo sounds better than 99% of the systems present in the typical US household, it is a far cry from my main system and I don't get to "play" with it as much.

[Canada Rob]

Rob,

Almost all USB DAC's can take audio from tablets and phones if the OS allows it.  In IOS devices, the Camera Connection Kit allows USB connection and in Android the latest release generally allows USB connection.  What I have found that most USB DAC's work without added drivers with all Apple products, with drivers in Windows products, without drivers in some Android products, and not at all with Chromebooks.

While I appreciate the compact, all-in-one nature of DAC/Amps (I personally own an NAD D3020, which is an excellent amp/dac) as a hobbyist and one who frequently upgrades I have found that separating the DAC and Amp sections not only protects me against obsolescence or failure of one component, it allows me to pick and choose precisely the devices I want in my system(s).

The NAD D3020 serves as a great all-in-one solution for driving a pair of Dynaco A25XL's in my living room, while my main listening rig is more specific - Apple mini - DB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Custom SE 421A amp - Omega Super 3i speakers.  While the NAD/Dynaco combo sounds better than 99% of the systems present in the typical US household, it is a far cry from my main system and I don't get to "play" with it as much.

Thanks Roscoe, good information. 
With the popularity of USB DACs like the Resonessence Labs Concero which is USB powered, it would be nice to run it with an iPod etc.  KingRex makes a (rather pricey)standard size USB "Y" cable that splits power and digital signal, so the KingRex UPower battery or Bakoon BPS-02 battery could power the DAC from their 5V female USB outlets.  It would make for a compact and potent front end.  The Resonessnce Labs Herus and Herus+ will do the above without the need for an extra battery - it will run off the iPods, Pads, Phones, Androids own battery.

As far as the all in one amps go, I'm totally with you.  They are about convenience with good sound, certainly not in the class of a good reference system, and yes, I like my components separate too.  BTW, it looks like your main system is very nice.

[TimF]

Rob says: "As far as the all in one amps go, I'm totally with you.  They are about convenience with good sound, certainly not in the class of a good reference system, and yes, I like my components separate too."

I would say a lot of us do appreciate our separates system, but really, what is a "good reference system"? I have found that often times some of these "all-in-ones" do as good of a job if not better in some aspects than some megabuck rigs. Not that money, overall power, etc. has anything to do with it either, but....Like I said, everyones mileage differs, but I wouldn't overlook some of these setups.

[roscoe65]

Tim, I would tend to agree with you if it were not for three things:

1.  I once had a great little Denon all-in-one system that came with pair of Mission Speakers.  Compact, great sound for what it was.  Then the CD player stopped working.  I was then left with a smallish amp that I had to plug a separate CD player into to make work.  I've since decided to really limit the number of functions stuffed into one box.  My NAD D3020 violates this rule but I wanted a nice set-it-and-forget it system for casual listening.

2.  I can put together a "reference quality" rig for much cheaper than going for a all-in-one system.  The number of people making high end combo units is very limited, and for the sound quality I desire beyond what I am willing to spend.

3.  No one manufacturer makes precisely the sort of system that I want.  That means a purist NOS DAC with a SE Tube amp.  Some manufacturers make a similar product but not to the level I want.  As it stands, apart from the computer serving files to my main rig, I would not be reducing many components.  My main rig comprises a server, a DAC, and a single-input amp with a volume control, and a pair of speakers.  I will likely add a subwoofer but the system is pretty compact already.

[Canada Rob]

Hi Tim,

Good post.  What is a good reference system?  A good question.  Basically one that you have by which you judge all others that you hear, and that compares closest to a live performance.  Usually it will have all components separate for the sake of flexability (ie: changing/tweeking DAC, phono stage, interconnects, etc, etc.) which you don't have with the all in ones.

Done right, with proper component choice, cable matching, and room acoustics, a "reference" type system is likely to trounce a system based on one of these usually very affordable all in one amps.  When you say "your mileage may vary" you are totally correct, because taste IS involved.

I hope my post was not misunderstood as being down on all in ones - far from it - I've recommended quite a few on here.  Case in point: a customer bought some Super 3is from me and played them on his expensive MacIntosh front end.  He then got a PS Audio sprout and liked it better with those speakers than with the Mac gear.  In other posts I have raved over how good the Audio Engine N22 amp/D1 DAC combo sounded with Super 3is, and that rig is likely lower on the food chain than a NAD 3020D, PS Audio Sprout, etc.

Here is the advantage of the all in one amps: 1) all the internal components are matched to each other.  2) less cables to buy, not to mention connection length between internal components is almost zero.  3) very aesthetically pleasing, compact, and easy to install.  4) sound value for dollar is very high.  Roscoe mentioned some of the downside so I will leave that alone.

That said, take one of the pricier all in ones like the Wyred for sound mINT @ reg $1500 (on sale right now at $1099) and compare it to a very compact "separates" front end like a basic Decware Super Zen amp, Resonessence Labs Herus+ USB DAC, and one of the great little phono stages out there for around $400, and go with very basic cabling.  Yes 25%+ more money, but the core of what I would term an entry level reference system with incredible flexibility, yet very compact.  The Super Zen has two inputs, bias switch to change the sound, and many different brands of tubes can be used to tailor its sound. The Herus+ DAC/headphone amp/preamp will work with a computer, iPod, iPad, iPhone, Android using the portables power, it also has low power mode, user selectable upsampling filters, plays 16/44 to DXD.  It's a fabulous headphone amp and will drive some of the hardest to drive headphones, and lastly it's a preamp for a home system.  The Graham Slee Gram Amp II SE at around $400 is a KILLER phono stage for the money and likely has a cult following.  It's been on the market for years, like the Decware Zen amps.  Match this front end with any current Omega and you will have a system trouncing ones much more expensive.

[TimF]

Roscoe, your points well made and certainly valid! And Rob, no, I didn't take it wrong, but it did give me pause to think about the "reference system" part of it.

In the end, the only answer for the OP is what sounds good to the OP and works for them. I think we all have ideas on what is or what can be called a reference system, and probably it could be miles apart depending on each person.

Anyway, onward and forward!

[asliarun]

By the way, I am also planning to purchase Peter Daniel's DAC (Audio Zone, Audio Sector) - and I think the best way to get more details about the DAC is to email him at: phdaniel@sympatico.ca

He is quite prompt at replying emails and answered the few questions I had as well. He sells his DAC as a fully assembled board and in a fully builtup chassis.

[Canada Rob]

By the way, I am also planning to purchase Peter Daniel's DAC (Audio Zone, Audio Sector) - and I think the best way to get more details about the DAC is to email him at: phdaniel@sympatico.ca

He is quite prompt at replying emails and answered the few questions I had as well. He sells his DAC as a fully assembled board and in a fully builtup chassis.

Yes, Peter is a great guy, and his workmanship is near perfection.  IMO you will always get more than what you paid for from him.  His Audio Sector Integrated amplifier is also a great match for any Omega speaker - one of the best solid state amps I've heard.

[JLM]

Before getting back on topic, I'd like to mention that a big part of this past time is the need many have to hunt.  Separates feed that need. 

Now, keeping in mind that DAC technology getting better and cheaper, how much you all believe should be budgeted for a system with Omega speakers?

[Folsom]

I'd contact Peter. If he doesn't have one post on DIYaudio WTB. You could also pay someone on there to modify if to the "PTTL" version (pushed to the limit).

It could be pushed a little bit farther by putting in a couple Kmultipliers between the voltage regs and PSU. It could also use an improved PSU...

All DACs could use an upgrade by power conditioing. That's the secret to great DAC sound.

[roscoe65]

"Now, keeping in mind that DAC technology getting better and cheaper, how much you all believe should be budgeted for a system with Omega speakers?"

How long is a piece of string?

In my own case, I had a budget I was comfortable spending and tried to find the best solution within that budget.  If it were cheaper, all the better.  Not counting the server, wires and stands, The retail price of my Omega replay system (three components) is $3,200, with the speakers representing $600 of that.

There has long been an American notion that speakers were the most important part of the playback chain, followed by the amplification and then source.  I suppose this is because speakers are generally the largest, most varied and intuitively the most influential part of the sound system.  Contrasted with this is the Linn system hierarchy, which establishes the source as the most important part of the playback chain with all following links successively less important, the speakers the least so.

That being said, my Omegas inform the rest of my system; I enjoy their presentation for what I want from this particular system and have found that despite their modest price they are not the limiting step.  They have caused me to upgrade my amp to a custom 421a SE amp "inspired" by the Fi 421a amp (right down to the Hashimoto outputs).  This in turn has caused me to search for a compatible and appropriately resolving DAC, which I now feel is my limiting factor despite being nearly three times the cost of the speakers.

I've been listening to digital since 1985.  For the rest of the 1980's and into the 1990's one had to spend thousands on a digital front end to approach the sound one could get from a $500 analog rig.  While I enjoyed the digital rigs I owned (Sony, Nakamichi, Theta, Micromega) it wasn't until I acquired a California Audio Lab Delta/Alpha transport/dac combo (used with an Audible Illusions Modulus 3, custom direct coupled 45 amp and 94 dB Cabasse speakers) that I began to feel I was getting something like I was with analog.  However, I can now spend less than $200 for a USB DAC that easily eclipses any other digital front end I have owned.  But to get the emotion, dimensionality and space I associate with analog I feel we would need to spend more.  At this moment in time I would consider the Halide DAC HD to be the entry level to a serious system involving an Omega-based system.

[doggie]

I have been using a Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSD SE for about a year. It has a remote with volume control so I do not need a preamp. It has SE and balanced outputs which allow me to also power my sub.

My speakers are Super 6 Alnico floorstanders. Front end is a "CAPS-like" (Computer Audiophile) PC running Windows server 2012, Audiophile Optimizer, and JRiver. Powered by a linear supply. Amp is Passlabs Firstwatt F6

This is the best sound I have ever owned. Very musical and non-fatiguing. Redbook is so good I seldom bother with DSD.

[kirch]

I posted this in the Outlaw Open Back section, but realized today it might be better here...

Interesting comparison between the Benchmark DAC and my AN 3.1 DAC.  No real surprises - these Benchmarks are very nice little components.  Crystal clear, analytical (and I mean that in a good way), excellent stereo separation with great detail.  The Benchmark also brings about a more focused, tighter bass from both the speakers and the Omega sub.  Earlier on in the life of the Open Backs, the benchmark would have been a horrible mistake, but since they've settled in after a zillion hours, I'd say for any solid state person that the Benchmark is a great fit.  It pairs well with my Audio Note OTO sig tube integrated. 

Thought anyone considering an affordable solid state DAC might want to check into the Benchmark.  They're very affordable, have a tiny footprint and go for $500 or so on Agon.  I'm on my second one and decided I need to keep one around at all times just for swapping and playing around with different combos.  They're that good, IMHO.

Side note - I've been getting the bug to change components again, and this little swap out of the DAC has stopped that in its tracks.  (Whew!)