[EdRo]

Okay guys...I have another question. I've had this irrational urge to build an over-the-top twin 15" Nimbus style world beating skull crushing megalithic speaker. I know it would be heavy, expensive, difficult to finish... but it would be AWESOME!!! What do you think? I respect everyone's opinion; I've learned tons from reading everyone's threads and talking to people as they listen to Vapor and other speaker designs. I've had this idea pinned in my brain for 2 years now, so I have to try. The layout would be a normal Nimbus Whites center section with a 15" below and a 15" above. The lower and upper sections for the 15s would be seperate, and lock together. Then the center section with the mids and RAAL would slide in and lock down in the center.
Opinions?

[EdRo]

Another thing to think about was a name. Because of Ryans atmospheric fixation, (and it was shark week when I initially had this brainstorm) I thought "Sharknado" could work.

[G Georgopoulos]

hi EdRo

dont keep the idea too long in your head it will vaporise 
all jokes aside
I think you got what it takes
mho is go ahead with it and look where it will take you

all the best my friend 

[Carl V]

Since you asked....
no.
rather consider Something like
a 4-way 15",10 +/-, 5"x2 & ribbon
maybe a DUELAND XO topology.
Deep bass is fine
...but focus on the upper bass,
or put another way Lower midrange
the POWER range of most music


Or with Vapors' Accuton relationship
Consider Lotsa Cell technology & a Boat load
of Passive radiators. no Volume eating Ports.
No resonances. Look at TIDAL

quad of AS190's, C90 and go from there....

Avoid or minimize MDF...look to Panzerholz or Mapleply  used in
Piano sound boards amongst other materials.

Good luck...have fun, the sky is the limit

[paul79]

Excellent idea, maybe spin some of that Perfect magic into it, and make it a 2 or 3 piece modular design so that they can be set up a bit easier.

[Folsom]

Ed, why not make a bipole? I think that would be much more interesting.

With the regular setup you lose about 5db to BSC, Ryan would only correct it 3-4db. But if you run bipole you'd have 0db BSC needed (may even have to filter a little off). That might be one thrill ride with those big 15's. You'd have to brace the box more, probably thicker walls. But the bass in the room might not be as subject to nodes? Someone else probably knows better than me on that.

To me it would simply be more interesting to have a different kind of bass that isn't subject to the problems of the baffle not being infinite. Also the speaker would only be a bit deeper. You would probably want to section off the mid speaker. And it might be fun to add a rear firing ring tweeter that has some power behind it (dipole, not bipole).

If you just have two forward firing subs it'll be enormous and respond perhaps more like a line array in the bass, which has very little value by comparison. Generally the best improvements with bass come from overcoming room node problems, and having a cabinet that doesn't sound like a ported breather; so it seems to me anyways. So what I'm saying is that you should change how the bass is produced in order to get a more drastic change. I'm curious about aiming the lower double bass box tilted up in the front in order to cause more asymmetry instead of letting the bass just plow out the back wall and rear wall.

Just an idea... from someone whom hasn't tried it just yet but certainly has it on their list. I wouldn't want to do this with the mid driver, because it would lower the imaging. But the bass range doesn't really do imaging to the same degree, and most of it will be defined by the mid and tweeter, for location. That means you get the benefits without the drawbacks doing just the subs as bipoles (wired how you would wire them if both facing forward).

[jtwrace]

Do what another speaker company did...put a > $250k price tag on them and you will sell a ton of them.  I'm not talking about Wilson btw. 

[Chu Gai]

Have you ever designed a speaker before implying you're familiar with just basic things like T/S parameters?

[EdRo]

Chu...I refuse to be held down by these...what do you call them...Laws of Physics!!!

[Chu Gai]

Chu...I refuse to be held down by these...what do you call them...Laws of Physics!!!

Then best you partner with someone who does embrace physics. You can't just use any drivers and stick them into what will likely be an attractive cabinet and trust that a carefully designed crossover is going to result in that,magic you're looking for. The parameters and behavior of drivers dictate a lot of things.

For example, you can't just drop any engine into a car or add turbochargers and expect that you're now going to have some super performing monster. Does the front to back weight distribution compromise handling? Does the frame adequately support things? Can the differential or transmission handle the power and torque. Etc.

You wouldn't trust a person who calls themselves a doctor yet hasn't taken anatomy and physiology courses to properly treat you. So, don't trust that you can pull this off without assistance. There are books that can help you get started but it's a learning curve. But the most expedient way would be to partner with someone who has the abilities you lack. Synergy and all that.

[jtwrace]

I'm even more confused now.  So Ryan isn't designing speakers anymore?  The cabinet maker is the designer for Vapor or has the cabinet maker always been the designer? 

[kgturner]

Sounds like you want to build an Evolution Acoustic MM3?

Kevin T

[EdRo]

Come on Chu, seriously? The way we work at Vapor is with our strengths. Each of us have our own skill sets. Ryan and Pete have been building speakers for years. They know how to put just the right combination of components together to catch the sound they want. I've been told that Vapor speakers have a very particular "sound". A uniformity that is evident, especially after going from room to room at RMAF. A personal friend of mine that went to RMAF and AXPONA told me..."I just like how Ryans speakers sound". Ryan and Pete know those "Laws of Physics" and the mixing of components inside and out. They give me rough dimensions to work with, which I see as a "canvas", and I start drawing. I don't like boxes. I was an art major in college, and I really liked sculpting. The forms I make use curves to be aesthetically pleasing, but also to strengthen the cab and to increase overall performance of a speaker design. I constantly experiment with shape, texture and materials. My "magic sauce" was derived from a need to find something better than what I could find that was  commercialy available. I come up with a shape that I like, then I cut out a silhouette of that shape and stand it up in my house for days. I'll make changes, or throw it away. When I finally choose something that I like, I send pics to Ryan and Pete. I get their feedback and make changes if needed. Then I have to figure out how to build my monstrosity. My shop has templates, jigs, forms, straps, presses...I wish I had a 3-D printer.
     Anyway, this is rambling on way to long. But, my point, Chu, is we all have our strengths and we are all aware of them. We try to encourage and inspire each other, and support each other. Ryan and his family are going through a dark time now, so I'm here to help. We do what we can, and maybe we can all come through this a little closer, a little better. This is Life, and one of the Laws of Life is that it continues on.

PEACE!

[Audiophile58]

I have never been a huge fan of the Raal tweeter they have issues in the 4-5k band as well as verticle
A good AMT tweeter like the Byma you used in the Aurora is a great speaker IMO. How much to make a efficient 3 way over 90 db @1 W is this possible like a  Smaller Wilson Sophia the Accutom 7 inch midrange
Great driver a 9 inch woofer .44 inch tall. For under $7k With quality xover parts
Niobe speakers of Audyn of Germany their true Copper cap is as good as Jupitersbest as well as Mundorf
Rationed a12.5  on humble home made capacitor test .i have used several times parts express.
Even the less expensive white daps are very good  and Ohmite a Gold resistors,Jantzen inductors
All med price High performance ,tired of paying more then 1/2 for the Cabinet.
This is just my observation and 30 + years in the consumer ,mod field.

[Chu Gai]

Come on Chu, seriously? The way we work at Vapor is with our strengths. Each of us have our own skill sets. Ryan and Pete have been building speakers for years. They know how to put just the right combination of components together to catch the sound they want. I've been told that Vapor speakers have a very particular "sound". A uniformity that is evident, especially after going from room to room at RMAF. A personal friend of mine that went to RMAF and AXPONA told me..."I just like how Ryans speakers sound". Ryan and Pete know those "Laws of Physics" and the mixing of components inside and out. They give me rough dimensions to work with, which I see as a "canvas", and I start drawing. I don't like boxes. I was an art major in college, and I really liked sculpting. The forms I make use curves to be aesthetically pleasing, but also to strengthen the cab and to increase overall performance of a speaker design. I constantly experiment with shape, texture and materials. My "magic sauce" was derived from a need to find something better than what I could find that was  commercialy available. I come up with a shape that I like, then I cut out a silhouette of that shape and stand it up in my house for days. I'll make changes, or throw it away. When I finally choose something that I like, I send pics to Ryan and Pete. I get their feedback and make changes if needed. Then I have to figure out how to build my monstrosity. My shop has templates, jigs, forms, straps, presses...I wish I had a 3-D printer.
     Anyway, this is rambling on way to long. But, my point, Chu, is we all have our strengths and we are all aware of them. We try to encourage and inspire each other, and support each other. Ryan and his family are going through a dark time now, so I'm here to help. We do what we can, and maybe we can all come through this a little closer, a little better. This is Life, and one of the Laws of Life is that it continues on.

PEACE!

That wasn't what you were implying with your original post Ed. Sounded to me and perhaps others that you were looking to do it all yourself.

[jtwrace]

That wasn't what you were implying with your original post Ed. Sounded to me and perhaps others that you were looking to do it all yourself.

Yep.  I thought the same thing and why I posted what I did.

That wasn't what you were implying with your original post Ed. Sounded to me and perhaps others that you were looking to do it all yourself.

[JohnR]

For goodness' sake. He's just brainstorming.

[EdRo]

Exactly John. I was downstairs listening to a set of Ryans Stiff Breeze Whites and getting all inspired. Ryans speakers can be very inspiring, and inspiration-drunk designs are what pushes the envelope. I appreciate everyone's feedback immensely guys!!!

[rajacat]

For goodness' sake. He's just brainstorming.

+1. I thought it was obvious.

[LesterSleepsIn]

+1. I thought it was obvious.

+2, I thought it was obvious as well. No reason to test Ryan, Pete or Ed on their ABCs. They know them well.