AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: saxguy on 9 Oct 2017, 01:19 am
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I just ordered one of Don Sachs' preamplifiers and now I'm looking for a pair of amps to go along with them. I spoke to Don about his amplifiers but we feel that it may not have enough power for my speakers (Sonus Faber Il Cremonese) in my fairly large, treated room. I was looking into a pair of Primaluna Dialogue HP mono blocks running KT150s that would give me around 200 WPC. I currently have an Ayre VX-5 Twenty (which I'm putting up for sale). At 125WPC, I think the speakers need more power to really sing. I've heard the speakers with 250W ARC amplifiers, but I really don't want to spend that kind of money right now.
The Bob Latino Amps look interesting, but I'm not sure 125W will do it.
Any suggestions?
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I would use Class D if I was you, 4 KT150 are not the kind of equip I would use, its too much tubes, Class D amps would be less expensive too. Do you live in a cold area?
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Can you elaborate on the size of your room and distance to your listening position? The speaker sensitivity is 92db, so a 125WPC SS amp should be more than sufficient for 105 decibel peaks but you should not be listening at that level anyway. Because they are rated at 4 ohm and likely dip lower, I would stick with solid state.
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Room is 13' x 26' but was measured and treated by Jeff Hedback. The room is very well dampened so it does create a situation where the perceived volume is down from what one would expect. I sit about 14 ft from the speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169601)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169602)
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Very interesting room. Consider a pair of David Berning Quad Z amplifiers if you're looking for 200 watt tube amps that can drive any load. Good day to call him, it's raining today in Washington so he won't be out on his bike. :D
http://davidberning.com/products/qz
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Arion hybrid HS 500 monoblocks with Duelund hybrid copper/silver output caps. 500w/8 ohms 1000w/4 ohms.
charles
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Great room congratulations.
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Before we give anymore recommendations, what's your budget? Or how much are you willing to spend? Are you set on tubes, or would you consider solid state?
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Joe, it's George :)
Budget for amps would be max $8-9K - new or preowned. Tubes vs solid state - tough call. I'm coming from an Ayre VX-5 Twenty. It was a great amp, but I think the speakers want more power. The VX-5 could drive the speakers to reasonable volume in the room, but I think they would benefit from a bit more overhead to provide a more effortless sound. Most of the more enjoyable previous systems I have had were tube-based. I'm just looking for a little more openness, sparkle and three dimensionality. The Hegel H30 has been suggested. If I could find one preowned it would probably come in at budget.
I've lived with OTLs in the room and heat isn't an issue. From what I understand, the Primalunas don't run the tubes as hard as some other amplifiers, so I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they won't throw as much heat as 16 tubes being run hard.
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Hi George,
I knew it was you, but wanted try and focus the conversation to your needs/wants for new amplification. 8)
While my Strads will play with 20-30 wpc, and your Cremonese will play with about 100 wpc, SF speakers benefit from more power than required. A little extra headroom is always welcome.
If you are already experiencing a power shortfall, then more is necessary, tube or solid state.
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Van Alstine DVA monoblocks
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George
Would the hybrid BHK 300 mono's be enough power.
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Very nice room, wow! I don't see you using anywhere near 125 wpc. I cured my need for high wattage amps by getting an amp with power meters. If you can borrow one of the newer Yamaha amps with the meters or something like that. My room is 13' wide, not as long but higher ceiling from what I can tell and listening position 12' from the speakers. I was never really exceeding 10 watts, perhaps 15 watts on torture tracks and that was loud! Sometimes seeing is believing :o
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Carver makes some powerful tube amps . Think there called black beauty or cherries ? Have heard very good things about them .
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With your budget and power needs I'd probably get a Pass Labs X250.8. Go check out Reno HiFi. Mark is having a fall sale right now (note he only does this once a year, from what I can tell). You should be able to get a demo unit, or lightly pre-owned unit. Mark also offers in-home trial period for the cost of shipping and offers full credit trade-up if done within 4 months (going from memory). All info is on the Reno HiFi site. I don't work for Mark. Just a VERY happy repeat customer. I highly suggest you give Mark a chance to make you happy. Very hard to go wrong. Something I'd also like to mention is that Pass Labs customer service is second to none.
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I had a Prima Luna Premium Dialogue integrated (the 40 wpc version, Stereophile Class A rated that year), but sold it after it failed to provide "tube magic" (some say due to the auto-biasing circuit). Rolled several output tubes, my favorite was 6550 1st, KT77 2nd. KT120 tubes sounded just like older class D mono-blocks.
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This just a suggestion, I don’t have any experience with LampizatOr in my personal system..(just shows).
It’s out of budget,but should be End Game piece..
—LampizatOr 211 monoblock Amplifier
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This just a suggestion, I don’t have any experience with LampizatOr in my personal system..(just shows).
It’s out of budget,but should be End Game piece..
—LampizatOr 211 monoblock Amplifier
211 tubes are expensive even the sino versions, I suggest the Lampizator GM70 amp, GM70 tube just $24 each, copper plate $60, very reliable tube.
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How about Odyssey Stratos Monoblocks or Kismets, I am very happy with my Kismet in Stratos amp. (mine have symphonic line 32K caps which means just like the Vinnie Rossi LIO for practical purposes it is of the grid, the caps take more than 1.5 mins to discharge when I unplug the unit to change the IC, the unit does not have any signature of it's own , It match very well with my D S-2 and Magnipan 1.7i
my list would be
1. Symphonic line Kraft 400 mono
2. Pass Lab X.160.8 or X. 200.8 (demo unit)
3. Wyred4Sound SX-1000R ( Class D mono Blocks)
4. Parasound Halo A 21 can be used as mono I believe
Like your choice of Hegal H30 but have not heard one
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Budget for amps would be max $8-9K - new or preowned. Tubes vs solid state - tough call....... Most of the more enjoyable previous systems I have had were tube-based. I'm just looking for a little more openness, sparkle and three dimensionality. .....
I've lived with OTLs in the room and heat isn't an issue. From what I understand, the Primalunas don't run the tubes as hard as some other amplifiers, so I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they won't throw as much heat as 16 tubes being run hard.
The Quad Z monos I mentioned are probably above your budget. About $20k, I think. Not sure. They don't have the characteristics of conventional OTL amplifiers, however. They don't run hot, or run the tubes hard. A set will probably outlast you.
My experience with Primaluna is they tend to be bandwith limited, and that makes sense because of the output transformers. I'm not knocking them, mind you but if you're looking to control those speakers with powerful amplifiers that can handle the low impedance load, and have "openness and sparkle" the Berning is your best shot at using tube amps. Otherwise, I'd go SS/hybrid.
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I'd take a serious look at the Music Reference RM9 currently for sale on audiogon. Those amps do well with low impedance loads and are very sound worthy & extremely reliable - especially this one since it's just had a good overhaul by the designer/builder. If I didn't need all the power I'd buy it myself today.
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I'd take a serious look at the Music Reference RM9 currently for sale on audiogon. Those amps do well with low impedance loads and are very sound worthy & extremely reliable - especially this one since it's just had a good overhaul by the designer/builder.
+1
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Well, I picked up an amplifier. I really wanted the Pass Labs XA160.8 monos, but even at demo prices they were out of my range.
I ended up with a Pass Labs X350.8. At 700W into 4 ohms it will be more than enough for my speakers. It arrives next week - can't wait!
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Congratulations, its alot of power.
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I ended up with a Pass Labs X350.8.
:thumb:
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Great choice! I loved my X250 I had years ago, enjoy!
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Well, I picked up an amplifier. I really wanted the Pass Labs XA160.8 monos, but even at demo prices they were out of my range.
I ended up with a Pass Labs X350.8. At 700W into 4 ohms it will be more than enough for my speakers. It arrives next week - can't wait!
Pass makes the best SS amps out there, IMO. Nice choice :thumb:
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Well, I picked up an amplifier. I really wanted the Pass Labs XA160.8 monos, but even at demo prices they were out of my range.
I ended up with a Pass Labs X350.8. At 700W into 4 ohms it will be more than enough for my speakers. It arrives next week - can't wait!
Be sure to follow up with your impressions after the break-in period. I think you’re going to be astounded...and a new Pass Labs fan.
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Check out the Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks.
600 watts into 8 ohms.
$2400 for a pair!
Free shipping and 30 in home trial with a 5 year warranty.