[TEA FOR ONE]

Hello all,
  I just picked up a pair of Mini-me's. I have been very curious about single driver speakers. This pair popped up,and after reading all the glowing reviews for Omega's,I just had to pull the trigger. I have been listening through Totem Dreamcatchers,and have become addicted to that 3D imaging. The Mini-me's are feeding the monster! My question is, are these typical of the Omega sound?

        Thanks in advance,
          Tea For One(Ray)

[Canada Rob]

Hi Ray and welcome to the Omega AudioCircle,

The Mini Me is before my time with Omega and I've been with Omega for almost 7 years, and Louis has been constantly perfecting his art since.  The first Omega speaker I heard was the Super 5 Monitor which had the 4.5" HempCone which would be a substantial upgrade over the older small Omegas with their Fostex and other drivers including the Mini Me.  The Super 5 was the speaker that converted me to single driver speakers.  The replacement for the Super 5 is the Super 3U using the current RS5 4.5" driver.  The Super 3U is a quantum improvement over the excellent Super 5.  I say all this to give you some perspective as to how the Mini Me would compare to the current Omegas.....it wouldn't.  Does that mean the Mini Me is a poor speaker?  Not at all, it's just progress, not to mention I don't believe Louis ever made a dud speaker.  If you can get the Mini Me cheap enough, they are definitely worth a try for testing the single driver waters.

The Super 3i is Louis' entry level monitor and would be in the category of the Mini Me in the scheme of things and yet there would still be no contest between it and the Mini Me.

Mini Me


Super 3i

[JLM]

The Mini-Me was an odd ball, one-off product, Louis' first non-Fostex driver offering - before the hemps.  It wasn't in production to very long and as I recall it has the smallest driver ever used in an Omega speaker.  I believe it was Louis' attempt to provide something for desktop listening (a concept that was quite forward thinking for it's day).  So I'd say, they represent Louis' cabinet building skill and perhaps his "house sound", but not the current sound.

But single driver in enclosure designs, especially in near-field listening, provides coherency, imaging, and midrange purity that other designs struggle to match.  I've said it many times, there is no perfect speaker, just good matches to your sonic priorities and situation.

Have fun Ray and please report back on your impressions.

[TEA FOR ONE]

Hi Ray and welcome to the Omega AudioCircle,

The Mini Me is before my time with Omega and I've been with Omega for almost 7 years, and Louis has been constantly perfecting his art since.  The first Omega speaker I heard was the Super 5 Monitor which had the 4.5" HempCone which would be a substantial upgrade over the older small Omegas with their Fostex and other drivers including the Mini Me.  The Super 5 was the speaker that converted me to single driver speakers.  The replacement for the Super 5 is the Super 3U using the current RS5 4.5" driver.  The Super 3U is a quantum improvement over the excellent Super 5.  I say all this to give you some perspective as to how the Mini Me would compare to the current Omegas.....it wouldn't.  Does that mean the Mini Me is a poor speaker?  Not at all, it's just progress, not to mention I don't believe Louis ever made a dud speaker.  If you can get the Mini Me cheap enough, they are definitely worth a try for testing the single driver waters.

The Super 3i is Louis' entry level monitor and would be in the category of the Mini Me in the scheme of things and yet there would still be no contest between it and the Mini Me.

Mini Me


Super 3i

  Thank you for the comparison. I have recently been searching for a pair of speakers that will satisfy my needs.(For a while at least!) I have been VERY happy with the Mini me's. I am using two subs in my listening room,(about 9'x12') with very good results.
 Along the front wall(9')I am using some Ikea Kallax storage for equipment and vinyl. The speakers are about 3 1/2' in front of the Kallax. Almost 1/2 way point in the room. My seating position is about 18" off the back wall. I am utterly amazed at the imaging and detail the mini me's provide! In the search for the "PERFECT" speaker,for me at least, I was wondering how much better sound I can expect by stepping up the Omega line. Thanks again for the info.
                Ray

[dB Cooper]

Sorry to hijack the thread but my father had a red Beetle just like that one... Looks like a '66 which is what his was.

You may now resume your single driver conversation. I'll begin:

I have never heard a single driver system I could live with long term but will candidly admit I have never heard an Omega. The concept makes sense to me, but of the single-fullrange-driver systems I've heard, for every thing they do well, there's three things they don't do well at all. (I have similar feelings about planars FWIW.) I wish they would consider showing at Capitol Audiofest. They obviously have a devoted fanbase. Out of curiosity, can anybody speak to their experience of Omegas versus other single-driver designs, and what sets Omegas apart?

[Ultralight]

Great question dB Copper,

Omegas are the first full rangers I've owned.  I've also been very interested in the FH3 with enabled Alpair 7.3 but was too timid to assemble mine and passed it on to another gentlemen.   I did hear one about 4 year ago at an audio show from Europe that was easily in the five figures with built in amp and that was amazing.  But five figures is not even in the realm of consideration.

I did a review of the Omega Super 3i in the review forum.  For the first time, the RS5 based drivers stopped my search - but that's with a pair of subs. 

May I ask what is it about full rangers that you did not like?

UL

[finsup]

The concept makes sense to me, but of the single-fullrange-driver systems I've heard, for every thing they do well, there's three things they don't do well at all.

What are the three things?

[ihor]

[quote author=dB Cooper link=topic=138976.msg1480348#msg1480348 date=1448763321

The concept makes sense to me, but of the single-fullrange-driver systems I've heard, for every thing they do well, there's three things they don't do well at all.
[/quote]

Yes, please tell what those three things are.

[TEA FOR ONE]

The Mini-Me was an odd ball, one-off product, Louis' first non-Fostex driver offering - before the hemps.  It wasn't in production to very long and as I recall it has the smallest driver ever used in an Omega speaker.  I believe it was Louis' attempt to provide something for desktop listening (a concept that was quite forward thinking for it's day).  So I'd say, they represent Louis' cabinet building skill and perhaps his "house sound", but not the current sound.

But single driver in enclosure designs, especially in near-field listening, provides coherency, imaging, and midrange purity that other designs struggle to match.  I've said it many times, there is no perfect speaker, just good matches to your sonic priorities and situation.

Have fun Ray and please report back on your impressions.

    I have logged about 12 hrs on these so far. I moved them back about 18". The sound stage now seems taller. The imaging is sooo good! The bass is obviously thin,however,I really didn't expect any thing else given the size of the driver. The 2 subs are doing a good job of pulling up the slack. Over the last couple of days I have listened to jazz,blues,acoustic,rock,on vinyl,cd,and spotify.  I am very,very taken with these obsolete speakers!! At this point,I am going to keep listening and experimenting with placement,and as it stands now,I can't ignore how well this single driver performs in my system.

[opnly bafld]

Tea For One; Led Zeppelin reference?

[TEA FOR ONE]

You would be correct!

[DaveC113]

Omegas are among the best single drivers regardless of price. Feastrex is the best for very simple music, stuff like female vocals with an acoustic guitar is amazing, best-in-world but they aren't as good for more complex and dense music like rock, symphonies, etc. Omegas are a bit more versatile there... Voxativ is only ok for the price, I think Omega is just as good, even compared to very expensive Voxativ speakers. I have not heard recent Fostex, but back when Cain and Cain were pushing Fostex speakers Omegas were in another league. The only speakers I've heard that I though were clearly better were Lamhorns with AER drivers, which are nearly $20k. The Lamhorns are very versatile, able to play "big" music with authority and they cover more frequency range than anything I've heard, very close to 20-20k...

For all the shortcomings of single drivers almost every multi-way speaker under $5k or so has glaring flaws I couldn't live with. I finally have a pair of multi-way speakers that are quite good, but they cost $10k new and are competitive with anything <$20k or so, they are the Pioneer S-1EX originally designed for TAD by Andrew Jones. The concentric mid/tweeter sounds very much like a single driver... 

[dB Cooper]

[quote author=dB Cooper link=topic=138976.msg1480348#msg1480348 date=1448763321

The concept makes sense to me, but of the single-fullrange-driver systems I've heard, for every thing they do well, there's three things they don't do well at all.


Yes, please tell what those three things are.

In the case of single driver systems, the three things I have heard from all the single driver systems I have heard are:

• Limited dynamic range. They sound good at modest volume but choke on large peaks or at high SPL levels, sounding compressed. Not the best choice for large rooms perhaps.
• Significant colorations. I have never heard a system of this type that I would describe as 'neutral'. I think some of what I hear has to do with IM artifacts, as a single driver system must operate well past its cone break up point. The rest I attribute to the difficulty of making a transducer 'flat' over a broad range (simple FR deviations).
• Poor extension at low or high frequencies (and usually both).
• Poor dispersion (beaming) which makes for a small 'sweet spot' (a trait they share with planars) so, if you're listening with friends, you'll each hear something very different.

OOPS, that was four, sorry I ran over.
None of these may matter as much to someone else and I freely admit there is no perfect two-or-multi-way system either. But you asked, so that's how I see hear it.

[DaveC113]

In the case of single driver systems, the three things I have heard from all the single driver systems I have heard are:

• Limited dynamic range. They sound good at modest volume but choke on large peaks or at high SPL levels, sounding compressed. Not the best choice for large rooms perhaps.
• Significant colorations. I have never heard a system of this type that I would describe as 'neutral'. I think some of what I hear has to do with IM artifacts, as a single driver system must operate well past its cone break up point. The rest I attribute to the difficulty of making a transducer 'flat' over a broad range (simple FR deviations).
• Poor extension at low or high frequencies (and usually both).
• Poor dispersion (beaming) which makes for a small 'sweet spot' (a trait they share with planars) so, if you're listening with friends, you'll each hear something very different.

OOPS, that was four, sorry I ran over.
None of these may matter as much to someone else and I freely admit there is no perfect two-or-multi-way system either. But you asked, so that's how I see hear it.

I'd agree. But despite these issues a single driver still might be the best choice, it just depends on priorities and what compromises you are willing to accept. If you're nearfield in a small room and normally listen to simpler music and rarely crank the volume way up than a single driver might be the best choice. If you regularly listen to Led Zeppelin at 100+ dB in a large basement then they are completely inappropriate. If you want a speaker that can play loud with full frequency extension and still sound as good as an Omega speaker at lower volumes with simpler music it's going to cost a lot of cash.

[dB Cooper]

Agree completely and no knock intended. While I don't play Zeppelin at 100dB (or any other) level, the others aren't good trade offs for me. I want to hear some Omegas though, maybe they can be talked into exhibiting at Capital Audiofest?

[Canada Rob]

As far as comparing other single driver speakers to Omegas, I've tried the John Blue JB3 and JB4.  I had the JB3s on the desktop driven by a KingRex T20U and they sounded pretty good except they had that HiFi midbass hump which made the bass on some songs boomy.  I then got some Omega Super 3i (hemp driver) and put them in the same place - no contest, bye bye JB3.  No midbass hump, not to mention everything improved including frequency extension.  I then put in a Decware SE84C+ with KingRex UD-01 DAC/PSU MK2 and to this day it was one of the best desktop systems I've ever heard - so balanced.

I played the JB4s in a room system with a Decware SE84C+ and they were completely trounced by the Omega Super 5 Monitors.  Next up was hooking the JB4s up to a Cyrus 6VS integrated amp in a larger room.  This is where the JB4 came into it's own, but it was more HiFi sounding than the Decware/Omega combo.  Both the John Blues are in the high 80s for efficiency which makes them poor mates for delicious sounding flea powered SETs. 

Among other excellent features of Omegas, is their high efficiency.  Most other single driver companies are unable break through that threshold into where Omegas are, so more powerful and complex amplifiers are needed taking away some of the live presence that Louis' speakers are famous for when paired with a good flea SET or a musical little chip amp. 

[G Georgopoulos]

As far as comparing other single driver speakers to Omegas, I've tried the John Blue JB3 and JB4.  I had the JB3s on the desktop driven by a KingRex T20U and they sounded pretty good except they had that HiFi midbass hump which made the bass on some songs boomy.  I then got some Omega Super 3i (hemp driver) and put them in the same place - no contest, bye bye JB3.  No midbass hump, not to mention everything improved including frequency extension.  I then put in a Decware SE84C+ with KingRex UD-01 DAC/PSU MK2 and to this day it was one of the best desktop systems I've ever heard - so balanced.

I played the JB4s in a room system with a Decware SE84C+ and they were completely trounced by the Omega Super 5 Monitors.  Next up was hooking the JB4s up to a Cyrus 6VS integrated amp in a larger room.  This is where the JB4 came into it's own, but it was more HiFi sounding than the Decware/Omega combo.  Both the John Blues are in the high 80s for efficiency which makes them poor mates for delicious sounding flea powered SETs. 

Among other excellent features of Omegas, is their high efficiency.  Most other single driver companies are unable break through that threshold into where Omegas are, so more powerful and complex amplifiers are needed taking away some of the live presence that Louis' speakers are famous for when paired with a good flea SET or a musical little chip amp.

 

well,true tube amps should be matched to speakers because of their high zout,however to see if the spaekers are good sould be run by a solid state amp with very low zout and super flat frequency response,trying to match set's to speakers is a pain in the neck,the little ss chip amplifier you mention,is been tweaked with caps in the input and elsewhere ,not a good thing when it comes to flat frequency response.

cheers...

[JLM]

In the case of single driver systems, the three things I have heard from all the single driver systems I have heard are:

• Limited dynamic range. They sound good at modest volume but choke on large peaks or at high SPL levels, sounding compressed. Not the best choice for large rooms perhaps.
• Significant colorations. I have never heard a system of this type that I would describe as 'neutral'. I think some of what I hear has to do with IM artifacts, as a single driver system must operate well past its cone break up point. The rest I attribute to the difficulty of making a transducer 'flat' over a broad range (simple FR deviations).
• Poor extension at low or high frequencies (and usually both).
• Poor dispersion (beaming) which makes for a small 'sweet spot' (a trait they share with planars) so, if you're listening with friends, you'll each hear something very different.

I agree with you for the most part but would definitely replace #1.  Some extended range drivers can handle high spls and are extremely dynamic (like Lowthers).  Instead, I've found that most of these drivers (especially the smaller ones) struggle to exhibit the scale of large performances.  I attribute colorations with efficiency.  Generally the more expensive drivers do a better job at colorations.  BTW my drivers (Fostex F200A, $575 each when still available, are rated 90 dB/w/m and 30 - 20,000 Hz raw) address those issues.

[Ultralight]

Great question dB Copper,

Omegas are the first full rangers I've owned.  I've also been very interested in the FH3 with enabled Alpair 7.3 but was too timid to assemble mine and passed it on to another gentlemen.   I did hear one full raner about 4 year ago at an audio show from Europe that was easily in the five figures with built in amp and that was amazing.  But five figures is not even in the realm of consideration.  it did sound absolutely amazing.  Don't remember the make unfortunately. 

I did a review of the Omega Super 3i in the review forum.  For the first time, the RS5 based drivers stopped my search - but that's with a pair of subs. 

May I ask what is it about full rangers that you did not like?

UL

[Ultralight]

What you mean by dynamic range?  Absolutely high spl? In that case, you are right.

However if you mean the dynamic range within a piece at reasonable listening levels of say 80 db average, the Alnico XRS I had the privilege of listening to for a few days seem to have the largest dynamic range of all speakers I've tried.  I took a sound meter to see how large the dynamic swings were and it easily bested my KEF LS50 for example at that time.  And it sounded like it - the decibel between soft and loud passages were distinctly larger and thus more dynamic.  So I never thought of full rangers as being limited in dynamic range. 

UL

In the case of single driver systems, the three things I have heard from all the single driver systems I have heard are:

• Limited dynamic range. They sound good at modest volume but choke on large peaks or at high SPL levels, sounding compressed. Not the best choice for large rooms perhaps.
• Significant colorations. I have never heard a system of this type that I would describe as 'neutral'. I think some of what I hear has to do with IM artifacts, as a single driver system must operate well past its cone break up point. The rest I attribute to the difficulty of making a transducer 'flat' over a broad range (simple FR deviations).
• Poor extension at low or high frequencies (and usually both).
• Poor dispersion (beaming) which makes for a small 'sweet spot' (a trait they share with planars) so, if you're listening with friends, you'll each hear something very different.

OOPS, that was four, sorry I ran over.
None of these may matter as much to someone else and I freely admit there is no perfect two-or-multi-way system either. But you asked, so that's how I see hear it.