[TJHUB]

I greatly simplified my 2-channel setup, and I'm wondering if there is a simple 2-channel preamp with remote volume control.  It could have only one input, and be tube or SS.  What I want is something that will sound better than my current Rogue Audio Perseus preamp, and it sounds really great. 

My current setup:

Custom PC based server.
Eastern Electric Minimax DAC Plus (SS output only)
Rogue Audio Perseus
Odyssey Audio Stratos monoblocks
Salk Sound HT3's

Any suggestions?  I'd like to buy used due to budget constraints.

[mjock3]

DIY  Tortuga! 

[TJHUB]

Hey!  I got a reply! 

Have you heard one?  I've already been looking into one, and I'm very tempted.  I'm running without a preamp currently, but my J.River volume is down as low as "60", which I dont think is good.  I'm still playing with things. 

[mjock3]

Yes, they are very impressive. And with an Apple Remote or likely universal remote you are set. If you want to hear one let me know, I'd be happy to loan you mine. I am currently powering it with the Anker Battery.

[TJHUB]

I'm calling you Mark...

[JLM]

If you're trying to simplify and save money, why have a pre-amp at all?  Just use your computer for volume control.

Or have you considered stepped attenuators (plugged right into the back of your power amp)?  Can't get much simpler than that. 

[TJHUB]

Just yesterday, I started listening without a preamp.  I'm using the digital volume control in J.River, but louder recordings have my volume control down around "60".  I can easily hear the sound lose clarity and of course affect the sound stage.  Quieter recordings have the volume at "75", and things get better.  I've worked far too hard on my setup to compromise the sound with a digital volume control. 

I've never considered stepped attenuators.  I will do some investigating.

Thanks.

[Big Red Machine]

Terry, I have some Endlers you could try out.  I also have a Tortuga that I need to cut the hole for the display and it will be done.  I probably will sell it as a finished unit (silver Chinese case).

[RDavidson]

I'm a big fan of buffered "passive" preamps, like the Wyred STP SE. I think someone on here has built tube based buffered Aikido preamps like this also (with remote). With the Wyred you have a passive stepped attenuator coupled to a solid state output buffer. There's no gain until you go WAY up on the volume control, where a gain stage kicks-in. The buffered output alleviates any impedance issue that can be problematic with fully passive preamps.....except those like the Bent Tap and Music First ($ Cha Ching!).
Note also that Wyred has a VERY rare sale going on now. I think 20% off. It's a fantastic preamp, and likely the last you'd ever need. It is fully balanced too and very versatile (tons of inputs and outputs).....so perhaps not as simple as you're thinking (but simple from a circuit point of view). I'm not associated with Wyred. Just a very happy customer. Their support is fantastic too.
You might read the 6Moons review. Aside from the usual word fluff, I find the review to be spot on.

[rajacat]

DIY  Tortuga! 

+1

[jarcher]

I'd say a Conrad Johnson - there are quite a few on audiogon and elsewhere, though you'll have to spend closer to $2k to get a later model with remote. The best deal to me would be the following :

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-conrad-johnson-et3-line-stage-preamplifier-sumptuous-2014-11-16-preamplifiers-01060-florence-ma

You can probably talk spirit sound even further down - probably at least another $200, which would make it $1800. I really think you'd be hard pressed to do better for less in preamps, especially quality tube preamps.

[JLM]

I preferred the sound quality of stepped attenuators to a passive pre-amp (interconnect impedance issues I believe to be the culprit).

As I use a single source and listen at the same volume most of the time, this hair-shirt idea worked well.  But have since moved on to a Jadis Operetta RC2000S (solid/quality build, has a "back-up quality" DAC, subwoofer output with crossover adjustments, remote, half-priced B stock) that sounds a bit better.

[TJHUB]

Thanks to BRM, I get to try the the Endlers attenuators.  Thanks Pete!

I'm also planning to try the upcoming Tortuga LDR3.v2.  My setup seems great for a passive preamp.  I guess I'll find out in a couple of months.

[playntheblues]

My vote would be for either a Placette or Tortuga.  Can't go wrong with either and both are hard to beat.

[RDavidson]

I preferred the sound quality of stepped attenuators to a passive pre-amp (interconnect impedance issues I believe to be the culprit).

A stepped attenuator is essentially just a different type of potentiometer. They are more precise than your typical tapered trim potentiometer (the type that turn smoothly).

The sound quality improvement you hear, likely has more to do with the precision / cleaner signal path that stepped pots provide (as they only have resistors, which can be made very precisely, of increasing/decreasing values in the signal path). Tapered pots don't have this kind of precision and can often cause signal balance (and likely phase and other signal smearing) issues especially in the lower 1/4-1/3 of their operating range. The reason for this is because a tapered pot is, in a nutshell, a continuously variable resistor. The variance provided by them is mechanical. As you "close" the pot (turn volume down) what is happening is resistive materials are coming in closer contact with each other. As you "open" the pot (turn volume up) these resistive materials are pulled away from each other. Keep in mind, we're talking about an almost infinite number of positions a tapered pot can be turned. There's just no way it can be precise in all those positions.
And that's basically where the advent of stepped attenuators for audio came from.

[richidoo]

If you set JRiver volume control to "Internal Volume" you will not hear any degradation. It is 64 bit processing. Full volume attenuation -96dB will chop off only 16 bits leaving plenty left for 16 bit data words to not be affected.
Read more: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Volume

If you want an external volume control, a passive like Tortuga is a good choice. Another would be a stepped resistor volume control in a box from Goldpoint. goldpt.com. Or make your own with a nice ALPS pot and a small box, but that wouldn't be a sonic upgrade.

You are used to a tube buffer with your Rogue preamp volume control, so some of the sound you like was coming from the tube's tone changing effect and/or from the tube's current buffering of the signal after the volume control. Often people try passive VC and like the clarity but go back to a buffered VC because the lack of current driving the signal through the resistive attenuation affects the sound negatively, less ballsy. A potential solution to this problem is autoformer attenuator like Bent, which shows better load to the source during attenuation. Your DAC has LM4562 opamp output and should have enough current to drive 2 cables and a resistor pad, but when you get your VC, compare the sound with and without the external passive VC to make sure you're not losing any bass or drive feeling.

[johzel]

I'm also planning to try the upcoming Tortuga LDR3.v2.  My setup seems great for a passive preamp.  I guess I'll find out in a couple of months.

Terry.  Thanks for the tip.  Am also thinking of the Tortuga LDR3.v2.  Emailed Tortuga this week and they're extremely responsive and helpful.  Definitely a plus!!

[RDavidson]

You are used to a tube buffer with your Rogue preamp

The Rogue isn't a buffer. A buffer doesn't provide gain (or provides very little). A buffer is used to alleviate impedance mismatches. The Rogue is an active (with gain) tube preamp. Buffers and active preamps are two different things, though I can understand the confusion. The primary difference is one provides gain (and thus has a more complex circuit of gain stages) and one doesn't provide gain and simply passes a more "friendly" signal to the amp.

I'm a fan of the passive volume control with buffered output circuit. Rarely do people need gain in a preamp. A passive is great, but sometimes isn't universal. Combine a passive with a buffer, and presto, you have a fairly minimalist volume control without the extra gain "issues" of of most fully active preamps, or the issues of full passive preamps (not including Bent Slagleformers or TVC's).

[JEaton]

Is there some other reason that you want to get rid of the Rogue Perseus, apart from hoping to upgrade the sound? Do you really think you can better it on a budget (although you haven't really mentioned what that budget is)?

[designdude]

Dared SL-2000 A