Bryston Loudspeakers

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James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2440 on: 11 Jun 2016, 10:28 am »
Hi Folks,

Yes the Mini T's are capable of a true 33Hz and if you have to place them close to a wall - say 1 foot or so then using the port stuffer will help if you get too much low end in your room. 

This is what the Reviewer from Stereophile Magazine said about the demo at the recent Newport Audio Show in California.  The room was very small and almost square - we did not stuff the ports.

Bryston Room



Lots of well-proportioned bass, with control for days, distinguished this all-Bryston presentation.

The lower range was superbly filled out on Lucinda Williams's "West Memphis." Ditto on a track from Emmylou Harris, although cymbals were a bit hot.

Add to that great bass and bit of sizzle on top—plus fabulous three-dimensionality on music from Supertramp—and you've got the best system I encountered since show's start for filling out the bass line.

The winners: Bryston's DDP-2 digital player, BDA-3 DAC, BP26 preamp with MPS-2 power supply, 7B3 Cubed mono-blocks , and Bryston Mini T loudspeakers. The latter can be either single or bi-wired; Bryston chose the latter, with StraightWire cabling.


Jason Victor Serinus,
Stereophile


james

veloceleste

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2441 on: 11 Jun 2016, 11:09 am »
Hi Folks,

Yes the Mini T's are capable of a true 33Hz and if you have to place them close to a wall - say 1 foot or so then using the port stuffer will help if you get too much low end
james
Hi James,
Do you have a similar graph showing the plugged and unplugged response of the mini t?
That is just what I'm looking for.
Thanks.
Dave

Yitshak

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2442 on: 11 Jun 2016, 11:39 am »
Hi James,
Do you have a similar graph showing the plugged and unplugged response of the mini t?
That is just what I'm looking for.
Thanks.
Dave


That would be very intresting +1

Yitshak

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2443 on: 11 Jun 2016, 12:13 pm »
I don't have too much of a choice in my second setup for now and I like big sound :)
But it was only until BDP-2 joined that I had to make a move and tame the beasts.

What I realy amaze is how nice they perform in this sealed condition.
I always felt that when I sealed speaker their drivers loose force too much
And the speakers sound thin and washed. (Small magnet??? Small internal box volume??)

It's obviously not the case with the Mini T's'. 

the Mini T's with 4bsst2 keep Reach bottom end with sustain force and the woofer have enough
drive muscle to force it's way,Just in a cleaner and faster transients yet keep sound big
And controlled as I like.

Also the natural sounding Twitter keep it's playing with ease
and don't become over pronounce or flat.

It is As if their actual designers (James ) took this sealed box
consideration as actual option pre manufacture  :thumb:




James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2444 on: 11 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm »
Hi James,
Do you have a similar graph showing the plugged and unplugged response of the mini t?
That is just what I'm looking for.
Thanks.
Dave

Hi Dave

No sorry I do not but it would be a gradual rolloff from about 50Hz down.

Here is the full anechoic frequency response response (on axis) of the Mini T.  You can see it goes down to about 50Hz and then starts a gradual rolloff - with the port stuffed the rolloff is quicker.




james



The Rang

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2445 on: 11 Jun 2016, 03:07 pm »
Stuffing the ports sounds like a viable option for me.
I did the same when demo'ing the KEF R700 using the supplied plugs and the differerence though subtle was noticable.
Do the Mini T's come with foam plugs?

My room is a challenge, almost square at 13ft x 13.5ft and perhaps a bit too "live".

I just wish my local dealer would allow an in-home demo....

gene9p

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2446 on: 11 Jun 2016, 03:12 pm »
That's the only thing holding me back from the Mini T's: the bass output.
Sounded great in one showroom in Vancouver, not so good at another dealer in the Seattle area.
Too much bass at the latter with two different amps in two different rooms.
My room won't allow me to place them 3 to 4 feet from the wall

I have mine about 18 inches away from the back wall. I bought the foam port plugs directly from Axiom.com . They are slightly toed in. I use a Parasound JC2 pre amp with a Parasound A21 amp that puts out 250 per channel. I have them on 13 inch wooden stands custom built by Gwiz. They are a year old now and the boominess they produced b4 they were broken in is long gone.




James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2447 on: 11 Jun 2016, 03:30 pm »
Stuffing the ports sounds like a viable option for me.
I did the same when demo'ing the KEF R700 using the supplied plugs and the differerence though subtle was noticable.
Do the Mini T's come with foam plugs?

My room is a challenge, almost square at 13ft x 13.5ft and perhaps a bit too "live".

I just wish my local dealer would allow an in-home demo....

Hi Rang

Yes the room in Newport was almost square as well - within a foot.

I think you would find the Mini's superb especially if your room is a little on the bright side as the Sound Power on the Mini T is wide and very even.

If you order a pair let me know and i will throw in the foam plugs for you.

james

Yitshak

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2448 on: 12 Jun 2016, 06:03 am »
Now I run my main setup also port plugged.
I'm really surprised how it improve the sound even in
bigger space.
It's look like my room sound reinforcements characteristic
are in favore of sealed ports.
I have to turn the BP6 volume higher but The clean sound impact,
nuance separation,speed and agillity of the sound with no
fatigue even at 11:30 is impressive by all means.

I got curious,
 
Any measurements What the internal cabinets volume
of Mini T's and Middle T's spec'?

Do to some furniture position limitations lower positioned drivers
are not practical for all,but increase in cabinet volume is affactive
when one choose to use speaker with port closed.

Any thoughts on Mini T's as stand floor designe say
In middle T cabinets ??

Itshak

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2449 on: 12 Jun 2016, 09:49 am »
Hi Yitshak

The Middle T is in fact a floor standing version of the Mini T.  The advantage of the Middle T is you have two bass drivers which means less distortion at very high sound  levels.  The Middle T does not go any lower than the Mini T because when you add the second woofer the cabinet size has to increase to provide the same low output as one driver in a smaller cabinet.

If you want lower bass than the Mini or the Middle you have to go to the Model T's.

james


James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2450 on: 12 Jun 2016, 02:09 pm »
Hi James

I've had so many people over to hear and enjoy the eye candy in a year since I got the Bryston A1 speakers.



I have a two systems (Vintage 1981 4B completely gone over and updated right down to a power switch and new feet by your great staff. It's in another zone of flat with a pair RP280F Klipsch.

Second system is sweet … 4BSST2, BP6, and of course the A1's.

Mostly everyone is floored. Folk, Rock, Pop, Metal, Punk, my live recordings around the planet etc... All have been played on the system. Lol...   ;)

Absolutely in love with Bryston!

Thanks James
Ken.


Yitshak

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2451 on: 17 Jun 2016, 08:42 am »
Hi Yitshak

The Middle T is in fact a floor standing version of the Mini T.  The advantage of the Middle T is you have two bass drivers which means less distortion at very high sound  levels.  The Middle T does not go any lower than the Mini T because when you add the second woofer the cabinet size has to increase to provide the same low output as one driver in a smaller cabinet.

If you want lower bass than the Mini or the Middle you have to go to the Model T's.

james



For now I'm limited to stand mount configuration (Mini T's ) do to furniture
Placement.

However I do understand the Middle T is a truly remarkable design.
It is indeed a lot of speaker for the money.

Same ease of load as the Mini T same FQ spectrum cover yet with dual
woofers to handle the lowers,it achieve noticeable better bass performance.
(less total overload  on the room do to sound cancellation affect as two woofers
producing the same sound waves  - if I understood older forum posts correctly ).

Thankfully I'm very content with the Mini T's.
they hit over the hill and outperform any speaker I had or heared
Include some designs cost up to 3.5 time the price!!!

After changing back to self power drive in the BDP-2 I open the ports again and all is fine,
no real competition out there for this all rounder speakers accept from it's own Bryston bigger bro's.

Itshak

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2452 on: 26 Jun 2016, 01:20 am »
New Bryston Model T






They have arrived! as others have mentioned they set up in a snap, and after 10 hours of warm up, they are rocking the house!!

Thanks!

i love these speakers!

jonny


gene9p

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2453 on: 26 Jun 2016, 12:58 pm »
stunning!!!!!!!!!!!

Marius

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2454 on: 27 Jun 2016, 02:51 pm »
Hi Marius

Those are the Model T's not the Middles.

Anxious to hear what you have to say.  How large is your room?

james


HI James,

Auditioning the Model T's has ended. Returned them to Mafico who i thank for having them over at my place.

There were 2 major ups and 2 downs for me. Beginning with the ups:
- Placement is as easy as connecting the cables and turning on the amps. Never realized how easy it can and should be to have a big soundscape, and have the speakers disappear sonically. We really couldn't point out the speakers, just one big powerful image. Comparing that to my ESL's (which are supposed to be easy on that), Model T wins hands down.
- No matter what i played, the tweeters never dominated, nor fatigued the ears. T's were the first I auditioned to succeed in that regard. And i listened to the old tweeters, the newer ones are even better?

Now, i noticed some downs too, unfortunately:
- the Basses are way too dominant, and not very well defined for that matter, sometimes plain muddy. I've done some heavy stuffing at the back ports, even closed them completely. I was surprised the basses were so prominent, in a rather unnatural way. I missed the option of the 10bsub here. Would have thought a full range speaker like the Model T's didn't need extra care in balancing. For me, they really do. Here, my Rel sub/10bsub wins quite easily, no matter the musical style. Blend in perfectly. I now am looking for a second model REL B1 Britannia Cherry to have them in stereo. (that is one thing i learned auditioning the T's: do have your subs in stereo. )

- The Model T's provide a amazing sound, apparently without any limits in power, and as such they build a colossal experience. Wow. I must admit i never heard anything like it.
Still, and thats why i list this under the downs, the sound image was not very transparent. I've thought of ways to describe the way i experienced it, and think it is worded best by Wall of Sound, rather than Hall of Sound. Massive rather than transparent.

Of course I've lived with ESL's for the better part of my professional life in music, and have trained ears, focussed and depending on the directional musical lines and their origin/positions. ESL's excel at that, transparency being their first, middle and last name. I feel the T's do an amazing job for all music, created in the studio, on the mixing board, and not directly in the hall used for the recording. Albeit with a too bass heavy sound, un-crossovered.
Listening to Classical music, which relies on being able to listen through the music to find all instruments, and perhaps more importantly hear the silence and acoustic of the hall being played, was just something i felt the T's don't excel in.

All in all, i find the T's to be exceptional speakers, they're just not made for my ears and needs, which i really regret... Would have really liked an all Bryston line-up.

If i might add a final word on the design: James you often talk about designers and architects to not think enough about the needs of the audiophile in matters of acoustics and space. I think we all agree on this forum. Maybe Bryston could in turn think a bit more about the eye-candy aspect of the speaker range. Ive had several people over to help me listen, and they all started talking about the speakers before i had played one track ;-(  They disappear sonically, but are real eye catchers. You must be able to design the speakers in less barebones, more elegant way. They might get a bit pricier doing so, but when one spends about 10-12 K for the main room, the aesthetics are important too.

Hope im still allowed on AC after this...

Still, Cheers!
Marius



bummrush

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2455 on: 27 Jun 2016, 03:02 pm »
For James or anyone withAxiom speakers.  Ive wondered for years how big of a bang is Axio compared to Bryston.  Because Axiom looks like a darn good company with very good product.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2456 on: 27 Jun 2016, 04:35 pm »
Hi Marius

You are still allowed -  :icon_lol:

Dipoles like the Quads load the room totally differently than the Model T's do so the frequency balance will change a lot so that may explain the excessive bass loading you mentioned in comparison to your current sub placement.

Anyway I have used the Model T's at many shows and honestly have never really had issues with too much bass but every room is different so results may vary.

I have owned all versions of the Quads and they do some things very well but dynamic compression and limited off axis response was always the problem I could not get passed.

james



FireGuy

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2457 on: 27 Jun 2016, 07:44 pm »
For James or anyone withAxiom speakers.  Ive wondered for years how big of a bang is Axio compared to Bryston.  Because Axiom looks like a darn good company with very good product.

I own all of Axiom's bookshelf speakers in different versions.  They are crazy good for the price.  Very neutral and well balanced sound.  Bryston's partnership choice with them is a good one.   A decision I'm sure that was well conceived, planned and now executed.  I have not heard or read of any comparisons.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2458 on: 27 Jun 2016, 07:49 pm »
Bryston and Axiom Speaker Product Differences

Hi Folks,

I know there has been some discussion regarding how the Bryston speaker products differ from the Axiom products.  The short answer is that some quite a bit and others minimally.  As with most strategic partnerships the idea is to create something new, as a team, which is better than what existed originally. 

Axiom has over 30 years of experience designing and manufacturing loudspeakers; including the ability to design and manufacture custom drivers, cabinets, and crossovers.  Since the goal is the best end product it would be foolish to avoid using Axiom’s existing technology, to the detriment of the end product, only to create differences for differences sake.  The decision to team up with Axiom on this project, and hopefully many more in the future, has some deep roots.  We have known each other since the early 1980s where we met through the research project going on at that time at the acoustical laboratory at Canada’s National Research Council in Ottawa.  Of utmost importance is that the underlying philosophy of both our companies is one of performance first; and this can easily be seen in both our commitments over the years to continuously investing in state of the art R&D facilities.  For loudspeaker design Axiom has their own onsite anechoic chamber (same size as the one in Ottawa Canada at the National Research facility) and an outside 100 foot subwoofer tower testing facility. They also have state of the art sophisticated speaker test gear and blind listening rooms as well as two of the best and most experienced speaker engineers on the planet (Ian Colquhoun of Axiom and Andrew Welker - formerly of API).  All of this means a great starting point and strong ongoing experience for the development of the Bryston speaker line.  It is no secret that many electronics companies have tried to go it on their own in speaker development with disastrous results.  The overwhelmingly positive response from owners and reviewers to the Bryston speaker line to date is proving that choosing the right partner was the right thing for Bryston to do. 

DRIVERS:
The tweeter design is extremely linear, has a very high compression limit, and very low distortion at high output levels.  These were all things we wanted incorporated in the Bryston tweeter. The in-house design and manufacturing allowed us to take a no compromise approach to the design as well as have total control over the quality and consistency.  The in-house manufacturing allows us to do all this plus keep the cost focused on the product without layers of additional mark-ups.  Also you really have to concern yourself with how the tweeter interacts with the other drivers in your speaker system; in-house design of every component, not just the tweeter, has allowed us to do this seamlessly.  The problem with most tweeters is the maximum SPL they can achieve before compression, distortion or just plain blowing up. I wanted the Bryston speakers and especially the Model T to be able to play at real world levels without dynamic compression – which is one of the main issues I hear in many speakers (some horn designs excepted)!  On axis linearity is going to be pretty good with almost any tweeter these days through the critical band, but good off axis performance is much harder to find.  The Bryston/Axiom tweeter has very good maximum SPL capabilities because of the custom titanium dome, phase plug, and mechanical design elements incorporated in its design.  It also has excellent off axis response as is apparent in the measurements of the finished product; (all the way out to 75 degrees) this is really important to hold a nice ‘sound power’ curve like we are doing in all the Bryston speaker models.

We have developed two different 5 ¼ midrange drivers as well because we needed different responses depending upon whether there are two midrange drivers like in the Model T and Model T Center or one midrange like in the Mini T and Middle T and Mini Center channel. Visually they look the same but the motor systems are customized for each specific model. All custom parts means there is no plug and play involved in any of the designs.  We have also developed a new 3 inch midrange for our On-wall and In-wall speakers and plan on using the new 3 inch mid in a smaller bookshelf as well. On the Mini Center, In-wall, and On-wall speakers we had to tool a completely different mounting system for the mid/tweeter alignment. The Bryston 5 ¼ inch midranges are actually a mid/woofer utilizing die cast baskets and full woofer suspension and motor systems.  This allows us to avoid the large capacitor required on midrange drivers to create a high pass filter that would be detrimental to the design.

For the T Series speakers, we have developed 3 different versions of eight inch woofers, because, as you know, as the box size changes so do the woofer requirements; again with different motor systems (suspension and voice coils for the Model T, Subs, Mini T, Center channels etc.).  All the Bryston current T Series speakers are based on heavy duty 8 inch woofers.  The crossovers, cabinet sizes, and cabinet bracing required for the T series are extremely robust in order to achieve the clean output levels required for our amplifiers.  The T Series represents and entire line above the Axiom 6.5” based top models.  The entire T Series line has been engineered from the ground up just for Bryston.  This combination of the more robust woofers, crossovers, and cabinets give the T series much greater power handling, lower distortion and much lower bass frequency capability.

CROSSOVERS:

Every crossover is designed and manufactured in-house specifically for the model it is used in.  In the case of the Model T you have the choice between an internal crossover, a high powered external crossover, or an external active DSP crossover. 

TOTAL CONTROL:
The capability for Bryston to design every aspect of the speaker – cabinet, crossovers, drivers, etc. with the help of Axiom, and control all the QC and testing through all facets of production is a HUGE cost and performance advantage over ‘off the shelf’ or so called ‘modified versions’ of off the shelf products which most other manufactures have to rely on. Tweeters are a great example of this because the tolerances require extreme precision and any deviation will be a serious compromise in performance. Designing and manufacturing a speaker with the ability to control all these parameters allows you to build exactly what you want and not have to build around a part or component that is available on someone else’s shelf or another manufactures profit markup.

BRYSTON A SERIES:
As of early 2014 Bryston will also be introducing a line of speakers designated the A Series which will be based on 6.5 inch woofer drivers, which will be closer in performance to the Axiom speaker products but will offer a Bryston 20 year warranty, a substantially improved woofer and more robust cabinet construction as well as the ability for customers to hear them at their local Bryston dealer all at a modest cost difference.

The A Series will offer our customers a lower price point than the T Series but other than slightly lower bass capability and less overall level output will equal the performance of the T Series in all other areas of performance. So choosing a Bryston speaker becomes a matter of application choice not performance choice – there is no better/best.

CONCLUSION:
Ultimately people will have to judge for themselves whether they like the sound of the Bryston speakers or not but in my opinion, they offer state of the art sound at very affordable prices given their price/performance capabilities. Check out the reviews and customer responses so far and I think it speaks for itself that we have accomplished that goal.

James Tanner
V/P Bryston


Marius

Re: Bryston Loudspeakers
« Reply #2459 on: 27 Jun 2016, 09:33 pm »
Bryston and Axiom Speaker Product Differences


CROSSOVERS:

Every crossover is designed and manufactured in-house specifically for the model it is used in.  In the case of the Model T you have the choice between an internal crossover, a high powered external crossover, or an external active DSP crossover. 

James Tanner
V/P Bryston



HI James,


Is the external active DSP crossover available yet? That would be extremely interesting and useful in my setup.


Cheers,
Marius