Discoveries, by accident............

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Wayner

Discoveries, by accident............
« on: 11 May 2013, 03:59 pm »
I thought this might start some discussion. Yesterday, I decided to wash the towels in the bath room. That was 2 hand towels by the sinks, and 2 bath towels on one end. When I took the towels out and came back in to put new, clean ones in, I noticed how loud, reverberant and bright the room became. Well, duh, it's a room filled with hard surfaces. I clapped my hands a couple of times and the room just plain rang. OK, that was interesting, but back to work. I put up 2 new fresh sets of hand and bath towels and noticed how quiet the room became. I did the hand clap again. I just was surprised how the ringing and reverberation had almost completely stopped. I had unknowingly damped the room, and did a pretty good job of it, by accident.

Moral of the story is that it apparently doesn't take much to tame down a bright room. I am going to experiment a bit with hanging some small towels around in the vinyl room, tho that room does have irregular surfaces and carpeting.

Wayner

cheap-Jack

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Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2013, 04:16 pm »

Moral of the story is that it apparently doesn't take much to tame down a bright room. I am going to experiment a bit with hanging some small towels around in the vinyl room, tho that room does have irregular surfaces and carpeting.

Most living rooms, including a "vinyl room", are furnished with sound-absorbing materials, e.g. couches, carpets, rugs etc etc. A huge contrast to bathrooms with hard surfaces all over. So living rooms being too bright like a bathroom should not exist.

So IMO, "hanging some small towers around in the vinyl room" would not be so acoustically helpful as the furnishings therein have done a better job though we may not notice it.  I'd not bother considering such "hanging" can only spoil the neat looking of the audio room.

c-J

avahifi

Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #2 on: 11 May 2013, 06:31 pm »
As I have mentioned here at AC previously, my sound room walls are covered with acoustic wallpaper and the ceiling with 1" thick Sonex acoustical tile.  The acoustic wallpaper is thick fabric, comes in many colors and patterns, and changed a horrible sounding suburban "family room" into a very quiet and usefully listenable music room where you hear the music not the walls.

I can demo the acoustic wallpaper effect easily if you call me.  I just go to an outer corner of the room where one surface is covered by the acoustic wallpaper and the wall around the corner is not.  All I need to do is rap my knuckles on each surface and you can tell on the phone why the treated wall is so much better for the music.

The only drawback to the acoustic wallpaper is that Berkeley my cat can climb it all the way to the ceiling. "SpiderCat" he thinks.  My squirt bottle filled with catbegon discourages him, but unfortunately the walls don't look pristine any more.
 
Frank Van Alstine

PS   Just so you don't report me to the Humaine Society, "catbegon" is just plain old water.

ricardojoa

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Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #3 on: 11 May 2013, 06:46 pm »
I had similar experienced but with the rugs on the floor of the bathroom. Took them for a wash and noticed very reverberent and loud bathroom.
But as Jack mentione, too much absortive or panels could kill the the overall ambience. A while ago i bought some 2 inch panels, and i temporaly laid them on the top of couch back frame against the rear wall. I thougt they did their job, but the overall ambience was lost. I guess every room is different so at the end we need to experiment with it.

Wayner

Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #4 on: 11 May 2013, 06:55 pm »
Most living rooms, including a "vinyl room", are furnished with sound-absorbing materials, e.g. couches, carpets, rugs etc etc. A huge contrast to bathrooms with hard surfaces all over. So living rooms being too bright like a bathroom should not exist.

So IMO, "hanging some small towers around in the vinyl room" would not be so acoustically helpful as the furnishings therein have done a better job though we may not notice it.  I'd not bother considering such "hanging" can only spoil the neat looking of the audio room.

c-J

The point I was trying to make was that it seems that not much is required in the way of sound absorption to control a room's acoustic. The towels in the "vinyl room" are for experimentation with positioning and amounts. Certainly would not be a long term room treatment.

I also think that there are many listening rooms that do not have carpeted floors, overstuffed furniture and the likes that take care of acoustic problems, just as Frank has described. So for those (other then C-J) I suggest some experimenting may be in order to tame your listening room.

Wayner

pansixt

Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #5 on: 11 May 2013, 07:59 pm »
Wayner,

Spot on with the bathroom towel experience. I noticed the same thing. in the same way. Good point. Not sure if the linens were absorption or dispersion
in my case.  :roll:

I recently changed speakers from towers to Maggie MMG's. Immediately the room sounded different. Actually better. Discovered by accident?
By upgrade and luck? The room is tamer than I thought. Still some work to do but the room acoustics by my clutter seems to work fairly decently
right out of the box. And for now.

Of course the MMG's are the biggest improvement in the room. And to keep this post circle related, the T-8 and Ultimate-70 with the MMG's just fill the room without unwanted anomalies.

Currently listening to some past Glastonbury shows on cable thru the Vision DAC. Wow!! I gotta go hear something live soon. :thumb:

James

Update: The T-8 is at 8+ o'clock on the volume, and it sounds phenomenal.

But, Frank is right. A 400R should provide the extra power and sound that should be the defining factor in this system. And then I can finish with any treatment in this room.



SJ David

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Re: Discoveries, by accident............
« Reply #6 on: 11 May 2013, 09:09 pm »
The point I was trying to make was that it seems that not much is required in the way of sound absorption to control a room's acoustic. The towels in the "vinyl room" are for experimentation with positioning and amounts. Certainly would not be a long term room treatment.

I also think that there are many listening rooms that do not have carpeted floors, overstuffed furniture and the likes that take care of acoustic problems, just as Frank has described. So for those (other then C-J) I suggest some experimenting may be in order to tame your listening room.

Wayner

I have tall ceilings and therefore some large walls that make a lot of surface to tame. I have started some treatments for the room including some corner broadband traps and reflection treatment. I wanted to keep the back wall (behind speakers) somewhat reflective but it needed something to cut down on the slap/echo. I also wanted something a little more interesting, aesthetically, in my line of sight.

I bought the wall hanging shown that is a little more than 4 feet square. It will match up well with the planned change in decor. The price was about $200 including the hanging rod. There are smaller and less expensive options of course. Different patterns, different layouts.

The weaving is fairly dense and will likely still be reflective to some degree. There is a treated canvas backing that was not suitable for my purpose. I could not see or blow through the canvas weaving. Idid not think that the rug would offer any acoustic benefit as-is.

I slit the canvas backing and inserted 2” denim insulation stacked up with 3 rolls of 48x16”. I chose 2” as I wanted to make the absorption as broad as I could, not wanting to trap only high frequencies. Ideally it should be thicker to trap a broader band of frequencies and I may experiment with added material. But at some point the rug starts to look like a pillow. Also, as I mentioned, the thick weave is still reflective so the net effect will not be to absorb too much highs and lose some of the spatial effects.

Next up is first reflection and diffusion treatment on the front wall.