Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives

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CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #20 on: 8 Mar 2017, 01:41 am »
fado, I didn't do anything, but I appreciate your candor.
cheers

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #21 on: 8 Mar 2017, 08:00 pm »
Wanted to update some info. This is the portable 2TB Western Digital My Passport Ultra drive I have been using for the past year: WDBBKD0020BWT

It spins at 5400 RPM and it's very silent among the hard drives I have. Almost impossible to hear it when it's plugged into the back of the BDP-1 and I'm sitting a meter or two away without any music playing.

Still waiting for the Jitterbug to ship out.

_______________________________________ _______________________________

In the meantime, a quick question. Perhaps James might be able to help me out. I've seen comments about the Sandisk Cruzer being warm and pleasant sounding. I wanted to know if there are any flashing led's in the units. I have a Cruzer from like 2006 and it looks nothing like the ones being sold in the past few years. All my current flash drives have blinking lights.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #22 on: 8 Mar 2017, 10:45 pm »
My Lexar 256GB has a red LED that flashed when it loads into my BDP. Pretty fast and inert. As far as SQ, I haven't done/don't do A/B comparisons.

Look forward to reading your subjective impressions/comparisons.

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #23 on: 8 Mar 2017, 11:35 pm »
My Lexar 256GB has a red LED that flashed when it loads into my BDP. Pretty fast and inert. As far as SQ, I haven't done/don't do A/B comparisons.

Look forward to reading your subjective impressions/comparisons.

Mine has its lights on both at startup and when music is being played through it. If another drive is being used, then it won't have its light on. It flickers periodically and constantly as the music is playing since the buffer is continuously being updated. Yours doesn't flicker when music is being played?

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #24 on: 8 Mar 2017, 11:37 pm »
Mine has its lights on both at startup and when music is being played through it.  Yours doesn't flicker when music is being played?

I don't look. It's hidden from my view, buried at the back of rack.
I'm too buried in the smooth melodies, anyways..... :dance:

Tympani

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #25 on: 9 Mar 2017, 01:03 pm »
My Corsair GTX 256G has a bright flashing blue light while in operation. Definitely a distraction in a front port, the light is obvious even if plugged to a rear USB port, if close to a wall in a darkened room. Easily covered with a small strip of electrical tape.

I do find the sound better (solid low bass, less edge) than many lesser flash drives, essentially on par with my Samsung 2TB SSD. Built like a tank, actually a little too heavy for flimsy USB ports IMO.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #26 on: 9 Mar 2017, 03:22 pm »
My Corsair GTX 256G has a bright flashing blue light while in operation. Definitely a distraction in a front port, the light is obvious even if plugged to a rear USB port, if close to a wall in a darkened room. Easily covered with a small strip of electrical tape.

I do find the sound better (solid low bass, less edge) than many lesser flash drives, essentially on par with my Samsung 2TB SSD. Built like a tank, actually a little too heavy for flimsy USB ports IMO.

How does your Flashdrive sound out of a desktop? The better SQ might carry over?
from a player like VLC.

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #27 on: 9 Mar 2017, 03:45 pm »
I had an eloquent post ready until my computer froze near the end. So I'll quickly re-sum up what I had written:

- I think all my flash drives are utterly on the cheap end. I never cared for flash drives as a music tool until recently. At this point, I don't need constant ABing to hear difference in flash drives vs. hard drives having put high mileage on both. It's obvious all the time, although both are very much enjoyable.

- It's a waste of time describing the full difference I hear in sound between the two, but the main are as following: cleaner transients and what appear to be more detail on the flash drives. Everything is tighter sounding. However, the hard drive is more relaxed and without the edge/glare. Now I haven't been able to nail down if what I'm perceiving as non-glare on the HD is simply loss of detail. This is where having the incoming Jitterbug is going to be helpful in revealing any noise/jitter issues. Additionally, having a top drive the Corsair would have further helped.

- Regarding storage mediums, I found a lot more useful info on ComputerAudiophile. A lot of people seem to absolutely love their SD cards. Apparently the best in shootout for a few.

- FLAC vs. WAV vs. AIFF ---> I found far more info and experience that mirrored mine on the BDP-1 on the Naim forums using their own dedicated players. Lots of good info there about noise ripples and patterns, clock destabilization, jitter, closed system intermodulation, inherent architecture preference for little endian and WAV in particular. I don't know how much of it applies to the BDP's, but it definitely mirrors my experience. A lot more crazy folks there, who apparently know what they are talking about.

I think FLAC vs. WAV is something easier for people to swallow, however, WAV vs. AIFF/AIFF-C is something even too crazy among the crazies for a discussion given that they are both uncompressed and only vary in order of data. Surprisingly, I did come across people working on this at Naim forums and others that apparently think there might be a difference in the noise and ripple pattern even between WAV and AIFF.

This is where I'm personally at from my testing at this moment in time:

FLAC vs. WAV - I think when people that haven't put a lot of time testing these both, go and do A/B comparisons (especially in shorter time intervals) they might actually prefer FLAC because its more intimate and appears more detailed and crisp on the vocals, whereas WAV is more open sounding and dynamic. WAV is more 3D sounding. It becomes apparent after some time. It's a non-issue for me as I have my library replicated in both FLAC and WAV (with tagging).

AIFF vs. WAV - Doing testing between these two actually kind of helped me figure out why I liked WAV over FLAC/ALAC. Because for all intents and purposes, I genuinely found WAV and AIFF to have the exact level of detail and soundstage and dynamics....BUT....it was only after reading a comment from someone else on a Naim forum that tested these two extensively that one particular word clicked in all of a sudden that helped explain what I was FEELING RATHER THAN HEARING over the last year and a half. That WORD IS FLUID.

This is why I think when people discuss doing A/B sessions they should first consider if they have actually put mileage testing both formats for a week period getting used to the sound of each format. Next, when it comes to doing the actual A/B tests, the time interval is actually super important. The more nuanced the detail, the more time you'll need to both feel it and hear it.

For example, if there is a massive change in soundstage, you might only need 5-10 seconds to tell that the soundstage has shrunk or grown. It's very much a hearing thing. But for something like very subtle noise patterns that might have equal bearing on the overall feeling and hearing as it relates to the music being FLUID, it takes a lot of time to fully figure it out. I still don't know what measurable parameters exactly influence this fluidity component. The difference was explained in the difference in the pattern of noise created. Who knows.

I'm still not certain myself on WAV vs. AIFF at this time, but adding fluidity as a component really helps in figuring out which file format I prefer in the long term. This actually mirrors what I had been saying all along. WAV wins each time when you play an album front to back without stopping because it FEELS LIKE MUSIC. There is a swing and uninterrupted quality about it that FLAC doesn't have, along with compressed soundstage and more top end detail...but perhaps a tiny bit more fluidity over AIFF as well. Again, the jury is still out on AIFF vs. WAV for me. If there is actually a difference, I hypothesize it's going to be near impossible in hearing it, before one can first feel it. Listen with your body.

Tympani

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #28 on: 9 Mar 2017, 07:06 pm »
How does your Flashdrive sound out of a desktop? The better SQ might carry over?
from a player like VLC.

My desktop audio has no where near the fidelity to demonstrate the flashdrive differences, that are writ clear with the main gear (Bryston/Cary/Classe/Magnepan). And regarding Zoom's thoughts, I am firmly in the WAV camp for PCM, and also enjoying DSD a lot.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #29 on: 9 Mar 2017, 07:34 pm »
I had an eloquent post ready until my computer froze near the end. So I'll quickly re-sum up what I had written:

------ [LONG des]

You ever consider doing a thesis for an MSc?  :lol:
At least you will get somethin' tangible for all that work......

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #30 on: 10 Mar 2017, 08:12 pm »
You ever consider doing a thesis for an MSc?  :lol:
At least you will get somethin' tangible for all that work......

LOL a point will come where/when I won't be posting anymore. Right now I'm trying to get out info on things that I cannot quite find or at least not in one place to put all these things in perspective. Over the years, I've run into very helpful posts that really got to the heart of some things and helped me quite a bit. Some of those posts were made on random forums over a decade ago. I'll post some info and then my job is done.

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #31 on: 10 Mar 2017, 08:13 pm »







Krutsch

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #32 on: 10 Mar 2017, 09:32 pm »
@zoom25 ... Nice! I've read great things about the Amphion speakers and would love to audition a pair.

On the WAV vs. FLAC side of things, I don't understand how anyone is getting WAV to work with the BDP-1, unless you are only browsing by folder.

I've tried a variety of tagging apps, transcoding FLAC or AIFF files to WAV and loading onto a flash drive for the BDP-1. I can never get MPD or Manic Moose to recognize the tags. Even if I use XLD to transcode and set it to include both INFO and id3 chunks for mete data tags. Of course these same files work everywhere else (tag-wise), so I have given up on WAV.

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #33 on: 10 Mar 2017, 10:09 pm »
@zoom25 ... Nice! I've read great things about the Amphion speakers and would love to audition a pair.

On the WAV vs. FLAC side of things, I don't understand how anyone is getting WAV to work with the BDP-1, unless you are only browsing by folder.

I've tried a variety of tagging apps, transcoding FLAC or AIFF files to WAV and loading onto a flash drive for the BDP-1. I can never get MPD or Manic Moose to recognize the tags. Even if I use XLD to transcode and set it to include both INFO and id3 chunks for mete data tags. Of course these same files work everywhere else (tag-wise), so I have given up on WAV.

Yeah the Amphions are worth the audition for desktop use with the Amphion amp and cables. You might be surprised...In a good room, you might give up on headphones because these can play quite low while remaining linear for those late night sessions.

I've disabled the Database on the Manic Moose. I still see the cover image and stuff that was there back when database was enabled. I do navigate via folders though. In Audirvana Plus, FLAC files appear the same as WAV in terms of metadata. Hasn't been an issue for me. I've gotten used to it. Even when I was using FLAC on BDP-1 and with the database, it wasn't always coming out properly, so I gave up.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #34 on: 10 Mar 2017, 10:57 pm »
LOL a point will come where/when I won't be posting anymore. Right now I'm trying to get out info on things that I cannot quite find or at least not in one place to put all these things in perspective. Over the years, I've run into very helpful posts that really got to the heart of some things and helped me quite a bit. Some of those posts were made on random forums over a decade ago. I'll post some info and then my job is done.

Actually, I was not joking about the thesis. I've seen far less pass for an MS or MA degree. You should consider it.


Did the Bug make a reliably audible difference in SQ from a stick?


zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #35 on: 1 Apr 2017, 07:47 pm »
Few updates:

1) Will likely be ordering another Jitterbug.

2) Ordered a few Hubbell 5262 cryo treated outlets that will be replacing the stock outlets that came with the house. Will still be using the stock faceplates that are already there.

3) The Mogami 3173 AES (10 and 18 feet) cable has now been completely dropped from being used in both digital and analog applications. Switched over to TPR for both at the moment. Will reassess the whole cable length thing again. Although, at short lengths (2 feet) it's still a bit weird. I actually daisy chained 2 of these 2 feet TPRs to make a 4 feet TPR that I'm using between the BDP-1 and Source. Despite the daisy chaining and adding extra pair of connectors in the middle, the result is still better than a single 2 footer TPR.

4) Stopped using D-Link AV500 Powerline adapters. Instead now have a BDP-1 connected to a separate spare router that has its wireless broadcast turned OFF.

5) De-stacked all components. Everything on its own shelf.

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #36 on: 1 Apr 2017, 11:38 pm »
^ zoom, so what SQ improvements did you hear that caused you to make those changes?

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #37 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:25 pm »
^ zoom, so what SQ improvements did you hear that caused you to make those changes?

I'll be adding feedback soon. I sat with a pen and paper during my testing and took lots of notes. Lots of things to go through. Still contemplating how much to post and in what format. How much will be useful or read, etc...

zoom25

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #38 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:27 pm »
In the meantime this arrived:








CanadianMaestro

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Re: Front vs. Rear USB ports + Flash Drives vs. Hard Drives
« Reply #39 on: 4 Apr 2017, 10:25 pm »
^ Good upgrade. Surprised you didn't do it sooner. Hubbell outlets are very good and economical. Just to be safe, make sure a qualified electrician installs these in your house.