If you can build IKEA furniture, these will be a breeze. H Frame Flat Packs

2bigears · « **Reply #40 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 04:43 am »

. I love these new flat packs .... I just wanted to know if bass was directional which I don't think it is. If I bought 2 of these can you place them any-how and any-where in the room. Multi subs is the way to go. This is know. But the drivers don't need to stare you straight on like a regular speaker ,, right ? This was my quarry .. I think you can play with payments too , right ,, to get your room right ?
Anyway ,,,, this OB bass is KILLER !!!! I was going to sell my Mags ,, but I think I will use the OB servo bass with them and enjoy best of both worlds ,,,,

Tyson · « **Reply #41 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 04:48 am »

Quote from: 2bigears on 18 Jan 2015, 04:43 am

. I love these new flat packs .... I just wanted to know if bass was directional which I don't think it is. If I bought 2 of these can you place them any-how and any-where in the room. Multi subs is the way to go. This is know. But the drivers don't need to stare you straight on like a regular speaker ,, right ? This was my quarry .. I think you can play with payments too , right ,, to get your room right ?
Anyway ,,,, this OB bass is KILLER !!!! I was going to sell my Mags ,, but I think I will use the OB servo bass with them and enjoy best of both worlds ,,,,

They are directional, and they have nulls to the side, so they excite the room modes less than a box sub. With OB you don't want or need a "swarm" approach. With box subs a swarm approach works well, but I personally still prefer the sound of OB bass.

Captainhemo · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 05:00 am »

Another point, you should keep the open back at least 3' off the front wall. But like Tyson says, there are nulls to the sides so they can be placed very clsoe to a side wall

I believe you also asked about the difference between the 8's and 12's earlier. I believe the 12's are gong to play with moe authority down low,, probably signifigantly more below 30Hz. I haven't heard the 8's so I can't comment from experience just from what I've read

-jay

2bigears · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 11:09 am »

ahhhh, ok,, 12's it is.. it's what i'm playing now and with great results. and you say with ob ,, a swarm is not needed.
interesting. now all i need to do is sell the V's or chop the heads off. but if only 1 sub is all thats needed,,
it might be better to leave them be,, and build a single one of these great flat packs,,,, hummmm, thanks guys ..

bdp24 · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 11:22 am »

Quote from: 2bigears on 18 Jan 2015, 04:43 am

. I love these new flat packs .... I just wanted to know if bass was directional which I don't think it is. If I bought 2 of these can you place them any-how and any-where in the room. Multi subs is the way to go. This is know. But the drivers don't need to stare you straight on like a regular speaker ,, right ? This was my quarry .. I think you can play with payments too , right ,, to get your room right ?
Anyway ,,,, this OB bass is KILLER !!!! I was going to sell my Mags ,, but I think I will use the OB servo bass with them and enjoy best of both worlds ,,,,

The frequency at which you cross-over to your main speakers matters too. If it is above about 80Hz (not much higher---maybe 100Hz), you need a sub for each channel because the ear can locate frequencies higher than that. And yes, an OB sub's direction DOES matter---it absolutely MUST face you. The output from the front and back cancel each other on both sides of the OB frame, creating a "null" on each side of the OB frame. If you face a side towards you, you will be in the null of the sub. One of the cool things about OB bass is that the null faces the side wall, so doesn't "load" the room in that dimension.

HAL · « **Reply #45 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 11:36 am »

Quote from: 2bigears on 18 Jan 2015, 11:09 am

ahhhh, ok,, 12's it is.. it's what i'm playing now and with great results. and you say with ob ,, a swarm is not needed.
interesting. now all i need to do is sell the V's or chop the heads off. but if only 1 sub is all thats needed,,
it might be better to leave them be,, and build a single one of these great flat packs,,,, hummmm, thanks guys ..

I have both the 3x8" and 2x12" (in the Super-V's) servo woofer systems. The 12" does play lower in frequency with more output. I use to have two of the Genesis 12M servo subwoofers which were sealed cabinets. I like the OB sub more in my room.

Another thing to think about is just removing the 12" drivers and amps from the Super-V's and get the new flat packs from Ruben. Makes it a lot cheaper to ship the rest of the Super-V's to a new owner. Then they can get new drivers and amps from Danny.

2bigears · « **Reply #46 on:** 18 Jan 2015, 05:29 pm »

ok,,,,, i got it now.. thanks all you good AC guys. and that idea HAL ,,,, it's a great idea. as shipping will cost a bit as I'm up north.
but to wreck the good wood work on these V's would be a crime. but to ship them without the amps and 4 big woofs is a better idea
thanks for that good smart thought ,,,, i think that makes perfect sense. thanks again !!!!

Outofthewoods · « **Reply #47 on:** 19 Jan 2015, 05:39 am »

Quote from: Captainhemo on 17 Jan 2015, 05:12 pm

I was wonderin gthe same thing, I'm guess it must be very clsoe to the height of a dual 12", possibly a shade taller depending on base/top thickness. My guess is based on a ('x9" cavity for the 8" wooders and 3/4" for the 2 braces. but maybe it's a little less ? Even if the driver cavities were 3.5x3.5 you'd still have 27" before to/bottom plates

How close is that Ruben ?

-jay

Hi Jay,

You're close. They're 32 1/4" before spikes.

I can vary the height if needed.

Ruben

bdp24 · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 Jan 2015, 08:27 am »

Quote from: Outofthewoods on 19 Jan 2015, 05:39 am

Hi Jay,

You're close. They're 32 1/4" before spikes.

I can vary the height if needed.

Ruben

For anyone wanting to use the 32-1/4" sub cab as a base for monitor speakers, set the speakers on the sub upside down if that puts the tweeters at around ear level. And put the front of the speaker cab flush with the top panel of the sub, to avoid diffraction effects.

HAL · « **Reply #49 on:** 20 Jan 2015, 12:23 pm »

H Frame flat pack and tools on the way!

sts9fan · « **Reply #50 on:** 20 Jan 2015, 01:59 pm »

How many sheets of MDF is each kit?

2bigears · « **Reply #51 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 06:25 pm »

Rubin ,,,, do these things even need sides ?? i am wondering if you can even use less material.. just a supported baffle ?? or are the sides a big part of the sound ???? just thinking out loud here ???? ha

HAL · « **Reply #52 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 06:31 pm »

They are getting here Friday!

2bigears · « **Reply #53 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 06:49 pm »

i guess that's a question for Danny ,,,,, if your not worried about driver protection as with kids or whatnot ,,,,
will just a supported baffle sound the same or do you need this little box ??

Outofthewoods · « **Reply #54 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 09:34 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 20 Jan 2015, 01:59 pm

How many sheets of MDF is each kit?

Approx. (1) sheet of 1.25" ultra refined MDF.

Thanks,

Ruben

bdp24 · « **Reply #55 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: 2bigears on 21 Jan 2015, 06:25 pm

Rubin ,,,, do these things even need sides ?? i am wondering if you can even use less material.. just a supported baffle ?? or are the sides a big part of the sound ???? just thinking out loud here ???? ha

The side panels are required to keep the woofers from cancelling each other's output (they are wired in opposite polarity) at too high a frequency. The sound from each driver has to travel around the sides until it reaches the wave from the other driver (in a two-woofer sub) to cause cancellation (+1 plus -1 = 0). The shorter the path between drivers, the higher the frequency at which cancellation occurs. If you measure the distance from the middle of the forward-firing woofer to the edge of it's baffle, then along the inside surface of a side panel from the baffle to the front edge of that panel, then the distance from that front edge to the rear edge of the panel (on the outside, of course), around the corner to the inside surface of the back half of that panel, measuring from that back edge to the rear of the baffle, and finally from the intersection of the side panel and rear side of the baffle to the center of the rear-firing woofer, you have the effective size of a much larger baffle. The sum of your measurements times two is the height and width of the simple OB baffle required to equal the H-Frame's bass extension and output. Some OB speaker builders DO use just a big flat baffle (attached to a base), which, if large enough, produces the same output as an H-Frame. The Frame, however, is a much less-resonant structure, the panels (top, bottom, sides, and baffle) all bracing one another. The H-Frame thereby produces higher QUALITY bass than a simple flat-baffle OB woofer design. Danny recommends an H(or W)-Frame for his OB woofers for that very reason!

Outofthewoods · « **Reply #56 on:** 21 Jan 2015, 10:00 pm »

Thanks! I was in the middle of a reply when you posted.

The walls of the cavities are in effect an extension of the baffle.

Ruben

dBe · « **Reply #57 on:** 22 Jan 2015, 05:14 am »

Those are superb! Nice job.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #58 on:** 22 Jan 2015, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: HAL on 21 Jan 2015, 06:31 pm

They are getting here Friday!

Let me know how it goes Rich. I'm looking in to some different alternatives as I move into my new digs.

HAL · « **Reply #59 on:** 22 Jan 2015, 06:26 pm »

Will do!

Ruben is sending the tool kit to build them as I have 10 left thumbs and no wood working tools. I can probably manage a glue up of the two 3x8" H frames, install the drivers and wire them up.

Have been talking to Skiing Ninja about getting them finished along with the OB baffles. Waiting for warm weather!