AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?

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boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #40 on: 25 Mar 2005, 06:17 pm »
Quote from: drystream
How about making a cardboard cutout of a preamp you think looks wonderful?  You could lean the cutout against your T7 and have the best of both worlds--the sound of the T7 and the appearance of Brand X.


Now that’s actually a good idea – LOL!!

I’m seriously considering transplanting the preamp into a more attractive box. There not that expensive, its just labor intensive. One of my other hobbies is building performance computers. I’ve built MANY of them over the last 10+ years, not just for myself but for others - office servers, workstations for DTP and gaming rigs. I’ve made some decent money doing to on the side over the years. So it might just be a project I’ll endeavor. I’ll audition the T7 against some other preamp before hand (when the buying time is right for me) and if I don’t find anything within my budget that bests it, I’ll seriously consider a transplant.

Hell, didn’t Frank get started by building his amps in Dynaco bodies. They made a beautiful chassis.

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #41 on: 25 Mar 2005, 06:20 pm »
Quote from: Otis
Ok, Boead, you've been telling us of your remarkable ability to hear the differences in wires and such - time to demonstrate that ability, and at the same time make yourself rich!

The well-known illusionist/debunker The Amazing Randi has offered on his site the sum of one million dollars if anyone can clearly show the abilities you claim.

http://www.randi.org/jr/080504string.html#8

My prediction: even for a million dollars, you won't so much as pick up the phone. It's oh-so-much easier to be a bigs ...


Interesting. Just some comments on the stuff on the Randi site:

I remember reading some of the absurd claims of Peter Belt in one of the underground audio mags years ago. I thought it was a joke, but I thought Enid Lumley was a joke too.  :D

Frank has detailed in the past how ABX testing can be flawed, and I certainly don't agree with the Julian Hirsch style "they all sound the same" comments made by QSC. QSC stuff was so poor it couldn't even compete against Peavey in the Pro Audio arena, so they got into the THX stuff and are widely used in movie theaters.

I think I'll have to get some of that "Quantum Rainbow Foil with Quantum Cream" to go with the Bybee stuff. After the Bybee thing quantum cleans the electrons, they can inspect themselves in the Rainbow Foil mirror and then apply Quantum cream so they won't get chapped.

I wonder if, when you're writing "ok" on your CDs, it makes a difference if you write in cursive or print? How about if you're left handed? Sinister doesn't seem to imply "friendly," so what will the resulting energy patterns be?

Should I start making my Wonder Bread (TM) caps with Quantum Rainbow Foil instead of Reynolds Wrap? Will I hear the difference?

nathanm

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #42 on: 25 Mar 2005, 06:49 pm »
There's plenty of other brands that meet the eye candy needs, even if they be the eye candy needs of one's friends who don't care about audio and yet need to be suitably impressed when the price is given and the visual signals hit the brain. I am glad there's at least a few companies making functional, no-nonsense equipment like Frank.  I haven't seen his stuff in person but the photos on the site (albeit small) appear well-made and fairly good looking.  It would not be too hard to cosmetically spruce them up, perhaps with wooden or metal-finish knobs.  But mostly they look like they mean business.

Boed expressed how important looks are to him, which I can understand totally.  But what about the connection between this and the placebo effect of cables?  Could it be that all those cables on Agon are being traded because the users aren't quite chuffed enough about the aesthetics as well?  You like the sound of the AVA gear but are letting how it looks bother you enough to want to sell it.  What does that tell you?  That your mind is playing tricks on you.  External appearances are influencing your perception.  Could this also be true for power cables and interconnects?

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #43 on: 25 Mar 2005, 07:05 pm »
Quote from: nathanm
You like the sound of the AVA gear but are letting how it looks bother you enough to want to sell it. What does that tell you? That your mind is playing tricks on you. External appearances are influencing your perception. Could this also be true for power cables and interconnects?


No you got the wrong idea. My mind is not playing any type of tricks on me, I just like form as well as function and I think the overwhelming population of the world does. We like beautiful things - I certainly do.
External appearances aren’t influencing my perception, what gave you that idea? I’ll post photos of my ‘mostly ugly’ audio gear that I have and have had. I’m usually more willing to spend the extra money on the components performance that its looks and I’m sick of it!

My power cords are NOTHING to look at, they don’t look much different then a Home Depot extension cord but they certainly sound much better – I’ve tried them too oh and for/as speaker cables – LOL, have you? They aren’t all that good. I’d listen to a piece of string if you could get a signal through it.

I don’t have any Bling Bling, if you know what I mean!

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #44 on: 25 Mar 2005, 07:10 pm »
Quote from: nathanm
There's plenty of other brands that meet the eye candy needs, even if they be the eye candy needs of one's friends who don't care about audio and yet need to be suitably impressed when the price is given and the visual signals hit the brain. I am glad there's at least a few  ...



This begs the question of, "Why do I need to impress my friends?" I didn't buy my stereo for them, but for me. And what kind of friends have to be impressed with you?

It might be more effective to simply burn a few hundred dollar bills for them right up front. That will impress all people. (Although often negatively.)

The aesthetics of whatever audio equipment will have a highly subjective effect on the viewer, with only some being impressed.

Far better to burn some bills and have a 100% response rate.

Oh, and I do realize that you were mainly saying that one needn't have solid gold face plates on their gear so it will be attractive, but I couldn't resist the chance to take your remarks out of context.  :lol:

nathanm

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #45 on: 25 Mar 2005, 08:30 pm »
Quote from: boead
External appearances aren’t influencing my perception, what gave you that idea?

Well, this:
Quote from: boead
However, I was VERY disappointed in its build quality. Not that its bad but rather that its ugly! It’s the ugliest piece in my system, so much so that I have a hard time with. And it doesn’t have an IEC connector.

and...
Quote from: boead
It doesn’t ascetically sit well with the average sized audio component in width or depth. Its looks awkward and cheap, not so much to me as to others. I’m sorry, but the fact that it looks cheap is sad. I’ve had people that don’t necessarily care about audio, see it on my shelve and comment about it. I tell them what it cost and they ALWAYS look surprised, I’ve even gotten comments on it looking like something they saw at Radio Shack or had as a child.

and...
Quote from: boead
And the sad and honest fact is that if it was more ascetically pleasing to look at, I would never continuously consider replacing it.


I am not aruging against nice looking stuff.  I myself think the AVA gear is cool looking.  Obviously you don't.  No big whoop.  But I'm just observing that you have said that visuals are affecting your opinion of the equipment.  I am merely suggesting that this same thing comes into play with cords, which you denied could be the result of the placebo effect.  Perhaps a cool looking cord may "sound" better than another but not necessarily because of electrical performance.  It sounds like if the AVA gear was dropped into a case that fit what you like to look at (don't forget the super cool cord) then you'd be extra happy with it.  I just don't see how a box is different than a cable in this regard. The same idea of looks affecting one's opinion seems mutually applicable to both types of equipment.

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #46 on: 25 Mar 2005, 09:21 pm »
Nathanm- I'm with you. I kinda think the AVA gear is cool looking too. A lot of the gear with the shiny bright aluminum looks rather mid-fi to me.  :cry: .

You know what?- cords and cables all over the place; now THAT'S ugly!

What the world really needs is cables and cords that 'disappear' visually as well as sonically- then we would really have something!

 :|

WEEZ

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #47 on: 25 Mar 2005, 09:28 pm »
Quote from: WEEZ


You know what?- cords and cables all over the place; now THAT'S ugly!

What the world really needs is cables and cords that 'disappear' visually as well as sonically- then we would really have something!

 :|

WEEZ


I guess you could try color-matching. A beige cable would blend in better on a beige carpet, etc.

WAF could be high too. "Look, honey, I got color-coordinated speaker wire!"  :lol:

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #48 on: 25 Mar 2005, 10:03 pm »
"Super-Duper Cable Company, can I help you?"

yeah I want the Gonzo cord in beige. How much?

"The Gonzo doesn't come in beige, sir."

whadya mean it doesn't come in beige...

"Only the Gonzo Plus comes in beige".

okay, how much for the Gonzo Plus in beige?

"$500 plus shipping"

damn. what else have you got in beige?

"Well, I could probably special order the Gonzo in beige".

how much?

"$500 plus shipping.

but that's the same price as the Gonzo Plus in beige..

"Yes. It's a special order, sir."

okay, so I'll, uh, what's the difference in performance?

"The Gonzo Plus has really deep bass; smooth mids; and sweet highs".

..so what does the regular Gonzo sound like?...

"It has really deep bass; smooth mids; and sweet highs".

okay. special order the regular Gonzo in beige. here's my credit card info........

(Later that day...)

hey, honey! guess what?

What?

i didn't go for the super gonzo after all. i just special ordered the regular gonzo in beige.

Wonderfull!

 :mrgreen:



 :?

WEEZ

nathanm

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #49 on: 25 Mar 2005, 10:22 pm »
Quote
Nathanm- I'm with you. I kinda think the AVA gear is cool looking too. A lot of the gear with the shiny bright aluminum looks rather mid-fi to me.
The silver\metallic finish seems to be the popular trend in most mainstream electronic-type gadgets I've noticed.  I bought my mom a NAD L-53 recevier (catchy name, aina?) and they did a good job of faking the typical 1/2" thick aluminum faceplate.  It even feels solid enough.

I can agree with boead in that really light equipment can be a bit of an annoyance.  However, if I were to buy a Van Alstine product I'd rather not pay for them to ship me big heavy chunks of billet aluminum.  Perhaps there could be a slot in the case where the end user could insert a steel or lead sheet.  Actually a friend of mine suggested doing this deceptively, by adding sheets of lead to equipment and selling it for higher prices with the idea that people assume heavier gear is better quality. Ha!  

But then again, there are cables that are overly bulky and heavy.  For instance, I built a 10AWG power cord which was simply ridiculous.  The IEC connector didn't have enough tension to hold the damn thing in the equipment.  So the lesson was; what's built to survive the greasy floor of a mechanic's shop isn't really the best for a home audio power amp.  

I don't know why the IEC type plugs are even used, they generally suck.  There's no way to really bring the loose prongs back to life once they get bent outta shape.  I like bayonet-style or connectors that lock into place, like an XLR, BNC or a Speakon connector.  I think hifi gear should go the speakon route, definitely more full-ass IMO.  Stuff held in by friction alone just isn't as nice.  I'd like to be able to pick up my preamp by its cord and swing it around.  :P  Heck, the captive cord of Franks' would be great for that too! (kidding)

I do remember seeing some beige-techflex-covered cables somewhere.  You even got a little suitcase for them.  Aww.  Well, a little wooden case could come in handy for something, but I'm sure one could be gotten for less than a couple thousand.  What they should really do is make a cable covering that actually looks like a cobra skin and fill a void in the jacket with vegetable oil so that when you swapped your cables "snake oil" would shoot out of the end!  There could be a little plastic snake head as the barrel and the + terminal of the RCA would be the tongue\vegetable oil spout.

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #50 on: 25 Mar 2005, 11:05 pm »
Nathanm, when you said perception I assumed you were talking about the perception in its performance/sound. I have no ‘sonic’ perception problem, it sounds great. Are you insinuating that I believe it sounds worse then it does because of how it looks? Are you insane? I have a hard time with its looks. I said that. Its perception is that it is a cheap and//or old opice of stereo ware. I’m sorry for being so honest, From talking to other Van Alstine owners via email over the past few months we’ve laughed at “how ‘nobody buys a piece of AVA gear because of its looks!’ – HAHAHA” type of thing.

My cables are plain Jane, nothing to look at. Actually, the MIT’s I have are installer’ type with no boxes and fancy labels or badges. I saved some money that way because they sound the same/similar as the ones with the badges.

The additional shipping from a company between 20 and 60 lbs is maybe $30. Big deal!
Heavier gear for the purpose of anchoring the component down and dampening has its merits.

You lost me in regards to IEC that ‘generally suck’ – Umm, how so? Bends or break? Really, what the hell are you doing that s breaking the IEC’s?!?! Calm yourself down and take it easy – LOL!!

Really, you have said noting all that intelligent and have only tried to be funny in a nonsensical way.


Weez, Hey man, how is it cool looking? Is it in that sort of old/retro sort of campy way? I’m knocking your opinion, I understand. I’m an artist by nature and profession. I like design, style and form very much so. I only bought the AVA because I trusted its sound quality and I’m keeping it because of the very same quality in sound and make. I NEVER said it was poorly made, it’s certainly not.

Wow, you guys that replied so far are closed minded. This is a tough room, didn’t expect that at Audio Circle.

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #51 on: 25 Mar 2005, 11:15 pm »
Yeah, oooozing snake oil coming out of beige snakeskin Gonzo wires. How cool is that.

Geez, even Audioquest has come out with battery biased , or ah, something or other cables so they always stay 'broken-in'. Or something.

Hey, to each his own. But just give me cables with good quality 6n copper (no silver,please) super litz teflon/air dielectric zero ohm zero capacitance zero inductance cables about an inch thick with really really good wonder soldered connectors with ultra good jacks plated with a substance from Pluto that are still flexible so they won't make your equipment slide off the shelf. And they better sound good too, by god, and make sure they cost around maybe no more than 1/3 of my system cost. But they gotta be beige.

WEEZ

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #52 on: 25 Mar 2005, 11:36 pm »
Boead,

Yeah in a retro way, I guess. Compact; simple, functional. Not flashy or gaudy. Stands the test of time kinda look. Loads of features and great sound. If I were looking for audio jewelry I'd be looking at out-spending my budget (or my wife's idea of my budget  :lol: ). Might get 10% better sound at 500% more cost.

By the way, I used to own a Dynaco ST-400. I didn't think it was great looking. I owned a Stereo 70 too. Not pretty. Both gave me good service and enjoyment, though.

WEEZ

nathanm

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #53 on: 26 Mar 2005, 01:08 am »
Quote from: boead
Nathanm, when you said perception I assumed you were talking about the perception in its performance/sound. I have no ‘sonic’ perception problem, it sounds great. Are you insinuating that I believe it sounds worse then it does because of how it looks?

No, I know you didn't mean the sound specifically.  I was referring to the overall perception of the product in the most general sense, that's all.

I wasn't intending to put you or your tastes down, I was simply bringing up the rhetorical question that if looks affect perception then why wouldn't looks affect perceptions of cable performance as well?  Clearly the looks aren't affecting YOUR perception of the sound, but what if they could be for all those cable traders?  I'm just throwing that out there.

Quote
Are you insane?
Don't know, I haven't been tried in a court of law.  But thank you for your concern.

Quote
I have a hard time with its looks. I said that. Its perception is that it is a cheap and//or old opice of stereo ware. I’m sorry for being so honest, From talking to other Van Alstine owners via email over the past few months we’ve laughed at “how ‘nobody buys a piece of AVA gear because of its looks!’ – HAHAHA” type of thing.
No need to apologize, you're being very clear.  I totally understand where you're coming from. :)

Quote
You lost me in regards to IEC that ‘generally suck’ – Umm, how so? Bends or break? Really, what the hell are you doing that s breaking the IEC’s?!?! Calm yourself down and take it easy – LOL!!
Well "suck" is probably a bit of hyperbole, but I already described 'how so'; the fact that they are just a friction connection and heavy cords don't always stay tight in the socket, that's all I meant by "generally suck".

Quote
Really, you have said noting all that intelligent and have only tried to be funny in a nonsensical way.
Well thank you for noticing.  I am training for a job in marketing at one of the major hifi cable companies!  Wish me luck!

Quote
Weez, Hey man, how is it cool looking? Is it in that sort of old/retro sort of campy way? I’m knocking your opinion, I understand. I’m an artist by nature and profession. I like design, style and form very much so.
There's no accounting for taste.  Of course AVA doesn't look like something from Rowland, Pass Labs, or Pathos but it can still be considered "cool" in its own right.  Compared to something that tries to be overly flashy, something that might tack on all sorts of wavy plastic bits as they do in the mainstream consumer market, Van Alstine gear could be considered very cool looking indeed.  It depends!

Quote
I’m knocking your opinion, I understand. I’m an artist by nature and profession. I like design, style and form very much so.
Actually, so am I.  I guess that means that there's no right or wrong in matters of taste, even if by profession a person is direcetly involved in design.

Quote
I only bought the AVA because I trusted its sound quality and I’m keeping it because of the very same quality in sound and make. I NEVER said it was poorly made, it’s certainly not.
Well you did, but immediately corrected yourself.  The confusion may have arisen from these two sentences, the second of which contradicts the first.  I knew what you're saying, however "build quality" doesn't have anything to do with it being ugly or not.

Quote
However, I was VERY disappointed in its build quality. Not that its bad but rather that its ugly!

Quote
Wow, you guys that replied so far are closed minded. This is a tough room, didn’t expect that at Audio Circle.
Thank you for your kind words.  We could use more open-minded people like yourself around here. :wink:

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #54 on: 26 Mar 2005, 01:24 am »
Quote from: WEEZ

Yeah in a retro way, I guess. Compact; simple, functional. Not flashy or gaudy. Stands the test of time kinda look. Loads of features and great sound. If I were looking for audio jewelry I'd be looking at out-spending my budget (or my wife's idea of my budget  :lol: ). Might get 10% better sound at 500% more cost.


These are all competitive to the AVA T7.

Weez, hardly 500% more? Come now let’s not exaggerate for the sake of argument.

Also consider BAT, Rogue and Cary can be had in stores for about 15% to 20% less msrp


Transcendence Seven SLR Preamplifier with phono and remote (their best)
http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/preamplifier/transcendence_seven_sl.htm
$2090 retail (factory direct)

The BAT VK30 with phono and remote.
http://www.balanced.com/products/line/Vk-30/index.html
$2720 retail (22% more) - $3400 msrp

The BAT VK3i with phono and remote.
http://www.balanced.com/products/line/Vk-3iX/index.html
$1920 retail (7% cheaper) - $2400 msrp

Cary Audio SLP-98P with phono and remote.
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/audio/large/slp98p.shtml
$2400 (12% more) - $3000 msrp

Rogue Audio 99 with phono and remote.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_99.htm
$2000 (4% cheaper) - $2500 msrp

Audio Research SP16 with phono and remote.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audioresearch_sp16.htm
$2000 (4% cheaper) - $2500 msrp

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #55 on: 26 Mar 2005, 01:42 am »
Nathanm, I understand and respect your response.

Most quality cords have IEC female ends that grab hold of the IEC connector quiet well. Wattgate, Furutech and Schurter make quality ends and are commonly used on popular cords.

We shouldn’t be comparing AVA to mainstream components with plastic parts. A loaded AVA T7 is almost $2100!

Good luck with your training  :D

1PsychProf

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #56 on: 26 Mar 2005, 04:04 pm »
Boead,

But he was saying that you would probably have to spend significantly more to get a 10% improvement in sound (and I would think 10% improvement would be a very large gain over the T7).  I don't think any of the units you mentioned (eg., Cary, Bat, Rogue,etc.) -especially their bottom line units you are using for comparison - will give you ANY improvement over the AVA unit.  

I paid $1499 for my T7 (with phono), so 500% of that is $7500.  I would like to know which units out their for this price, will give me a 10% improvement over the AVA.  (And then I'll buy it used on Agon for $3k and give it a try!)

Dave

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #57 on: 26 Mar 2005, 05:01 pm »
Oooops- you guys are right. Slip of the keystroke. Meant 50%.

We've accomplished nothing here. But it HAS been fun. (silly, but fun).

best,

WEEZ

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #58 on: 27 Mar 2005, 12:52 am »
The AVA T7 is very good but so are all the above I mentioned. Don’t fool yourself for a minute and believe the T7 is superior to any off them. You may prefer the flavor of one over another but that’s about all.

A friend has the BAT VK3i. I was planning on bringing my T7 over to his place for an listen, he’s using a Rogue 90 amp and a Meridian 588 CDP with Alon Model One speakers. I’ll let you know what I think in a week or two.

From my experiences listening to the BAT VK3i, a Conrad Johnson PV14 and an older CJ PF-2 solid state preamp I can tell you that the BAT is extraordinary. Its rich and flavorful with a very large soundstage and tight focus. It takes well to tube rolling and is extremely well made with expensive transformers and beautifully designed boards. It remote is nicely made too. At $2500 msrp (less 10% to 20% retail) - with a phono section it directly competes with the AVA and side by side, the physical comparison is so opposite its appalling.  I’ll listen to both and give you my impressions but judging from what I heard, the AVA T7 isn’t light years better if at all.

1PsychProf, you said you paid $1500 for yours. I guess that’s a deal or you don’t have all the options.

Transcendence Seven R-series Straight Line
$1300
RIAA Phono Section
$350
Buffered Tape
$140
Remote Control
$300
Total: $2090

I’m not sure what Weez was getting at but if you read this post you would see I suggested spending no more then the cost of an average component. Not sure what the whole $7500 thing is about.

I’m sure Franks head is exploiting by now. Sorry Frank.

avahifi

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #59 on: 27 Mar 2005, 06:59 pm »
I can't believe this.  1500 views of this thread about nonsense, and only 250 views of a thread a few lines down about a client's reaction to building our new Ultimate 70 amplifier kit.

It looks like smoke and mirrors outweights any interest here in devices that might actually improve the musical listening experience by nearly ten to one.

What are we doing here anyway?

Lets see any of you cable junkies start with a clean sheet of paper and come up with a good audio amplifier design from the ground up all by yourself.  Fat chance!

Frank Van Alstine