[CanadianMaestro]

Is it just me, or have we been accustomed (brainwashed?) to tossing the stock power cord when we open a box of new audio gear? And then using an after-market cord?

[Tympani]

Personally wouldn't call it "brainwashed". I listen to my gear for 1-2 months, certainly well beyond their break-in period, before trying other cords (well, maybe a couple of sneak peeks before then). I want to know how it sounds as delivered. its the only way to assess the impact of swapping. And I have a bevvy of aftermarket cords sitting in a drawer that consistently don't help, and actually hurt the presentation.

As a general rule, I have found that digital components show the most substantial benefits from PC upgrades.

Re: Power conditioners, these have been a mixed bag for me, and other than for "protection" many of my components sound better plugged straight in. I use dedicated circuits, and a Running Springs Dmitri conditioner.

[Wapiti]

Perhaps a bit brainwashed; marketing and peer pressure/claims are powerful particularly in the context of an enthusiast pursuit.  Yet, many hear differences with power cords, cables, footers and other tweaks.  There is also the impact of expectation bias at play.

A tweak is worth the expense if the changes you perceive are worth the money you spent.  This applies to placebos as well (it matters not a whit if what you perceive is "real").

After all, it is a hobby.  A hobby's very purpose is to waste time and money.

With respect to power, I have found an isolated ground and a PS Audio PowerPlant regenerator to be beneficial.  The latter is an expensive bit of kit however.  I have had mixed experiences with power cords, most of which appear to do harm.

As with all things audio, try it and see.

[XMAN]

Is it just me, or have we been accustomed (brainwashed?) to tossing the stock power cord when we open a box of new audio gear? And then using an after-market cord?

i've been listening to my gear for 20 years with stock cords and just now discovered how much power cord improve the sound.

[XMAN]

Personally wouldn't call it "brainwashed". I listen to my gear for 1-2 months, certainly well beyond their break-in period, before trying other cords (well, maybe a couple of sneak peeks before then). I want to know how it sounds as delivered. its the only way to assess the impact of swapping. And I have a bevvy of aftermarket cords sitting in a drawer that consistently don't help, and actually hurt the presentation.

As a general rule, I have found that digital components show the most substantial benefits from PC upgrades.

Re: Power conditioners, these have been a mixed bag for me, and other than for "protection" many of my components sound better plugged straight in. I use dedicated circuits, and a Running Springs Dmitri conditioner.

I have found the same results with power conditioners however the Changs i have is one of the cheaper models.  I suppose a good power conditioner will improve the sound in areas where the power is poor in general.  I have found a dedicated circuit with #10 awg or larger makes more difference than a power conditioner and getting a breaker with the over voltage protection would be the way to go also isolated ground with hospital grade outlets.  Being an electronics technologist and an electrician its a relatively cheap upgrade for me. 

[Tympani]

OK, I guess it's time to move on from the "tweaky talk". But really, if your stuff sounded like junk, no one would even bother. I see it as a compliment and an affirmation of great design.

[CanadianMaestro]

OK, I guess it's time to move on from the "tweaky talk". But really, if the stuff sounded like junk, no one would even bother. I see it as a compliment and an affirmation of great design.

Absolutely. Many cables are well-designed.   

[Rod_S]

Ya thats what is great about this hobby - so many empirical reports can not be ignored. 

james

I would say you have to be careful of statements like that considering I would suspect about 95%+ of the population couldn't hear a difference between ST-> SST-> SST2 - Cube amps or between say any Bryston amp and other manufacturers like Emotiva, ATI, which are much, much cheaper. In those cases claims of snake oil could be used towards Bryston amps.

[James Tanner]

I would say you have to be careful of statements like that considering I would suspect about 95%+ of the population couldn't hear a difference between ST-> SST-> SST2 - Cube amps or between say any Bryston amp and other manufacturers like Emotiva, ATI, which are much, much cheaper. In those cases claims of snake oil could be used towards Bryston amps.

Hi

I would hope that our customers - granted a small percentage of people - could tell the difference between our products otherwise there is no point to our products or our attempts to improve them.

jaems

[Rod_S]

High-end audio is by nature a very limited market segment to begin with and the discussions above about wanting to hear a difference when one really can't be heard or simply doesn't exist with respect to cables also applies to the amps. I would wager that most of your customers claiming to hear differences actually can't under a double blind, level matched, etc. test which would further support any nay sayers who believe two solid state amps performing within spec can't be distinguished from one another. What is measurable can not necessarily be heard by the human ear so yes technologically amp A may be "better" than amp b, lets say SST vs cube but that's not necessarily going to translate into a listeners reality when un-swayed by word of mouth, positive reviews, newer is better, more expensive is better, heavier is better, etc., etc.

At the end of the day you have to choose to accept or dismiss it and just continue to do what you do and continue on making your products as good as you can.

[zoom25]

Hi

I would hope that our customers - granted a small percentage of people - could tell the difference between our products otherwise there is no point to our products or our attempts to improve them.

jaems

Being in Mississauga, I'm surrounded by Bryston gear. You guys definitely have your own clean, neutral sound vibe that's quite recognizable over other hi-fi brands. I've owned Emotiva in the past and still own Emotiva products (DAC/Pre-amps). Emotiva is no Bryston...

[CanadianMaestro]

Being in Mississauga, I'm surrounded by Bryston gear. You guys definitely have your own clean, neutral sound vibe that's quite recognizable over other hi-fi brands. I've owned Emotiva in the past and still own Emotiva products (DAC/Pre-amps). Emotiva is no Bryston...

Ayre...Krell...Bose...Classe...dCS...al l ain't no Bryston. 20-yr warranties.   

Who's your Bryston dealer there in Mississauga? I know Bay/Bloor Radio does Bryston.

Out West here, there's quite a loyal following too.   

[zoom25]

Ayre...Krell...Bose...Classe...dCS...all ain't no Bryston. 20-yr warranties.   

Who's your Bryston dealer there in Mississauga? I know Bay/Bloor Radio does Bryston.

Out West here, there's quite a loyal following too.   

I deal with Trutone in Mississauga and also Bay/Bloor in Toronto. With the crappy CAD and knowing there's always support locally, combined with the price/performance value along with 20 years warranty...it's an easy call.

Everytime I go Trutone, I always see the Bryston on the Solid Tech Rack of Silence.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/7/7b/200x200px-ZC-7b85d871_IMG-20130810-00027.jpeg

One day...



Also, side story and experience with Bryston. I also go to some stores in Hamilton besides those in Mississauga, Toronto and other standard spots in GTA. Depending on which place you go to, the dealer's markup will be different and they'll either praise or downplay a brand. With Bryston, I've yet to hear a dealer say anything bad. It's hard to fault in.

[CanadianMaestro]

Yep, they've been around a while and are well-known in pro circles probably more so than with consumers.

[XMAN]

Ya thats what is great about this hobby - so many empirical reports can not be ignored. 

james

Do i understand you correctly,  are you implying that you do not believe cables matter beyond measured results? 

[James Tanner]

Do i understand you correctly,  are you implying that you do not believe cables matter beyond measured results?

No ... I am saying that if people are reporting differences then some validity to their observations has to be taken into account.

james

[XMAN]

No ... I am saying that if people are reporting differences then some validity to their observations has to be taken in to account.

james

Thanks James that's what i thought but after reading the snake oil comment above i wasn't quite sure.  I believe we don't have instruments to measure the same parameters that we can hear they just haven't been invented.  Early in my quest for high quality audio i had a hard time believing it would matter due to my electronics background but i came to the conclusion many years ago that we all know very little and the more you learn the more this becomes clear.  Reproducing sound with the primitive tools at hand is quite incredible and more complex that we can imagine. 

[zoom25]

Thanks James that's what i thought but after reading the snake oil comment above i wasn't quite sure.  I believe we don't have instruments to measure the same parameters that we can hear they just haven't been invented.  Early in my quest for high quality audio i had a hard time believing it would matter due to my electronics background but i came to the conclusion many years ago that we all know very little and the more you learn the more this becomes clear.  Reproducing sound with the primitive tools at hand is quite incredible and more complex that we can imagine.

Aside from instruments, I often question if our methodology and test parameters are perfectly suited to study whatever that we are trying to study. Paying attention to one particular thing diminishes our central auditory nervous system's ability to process all the other massive amounts of information (stereocilias are always operational). Fatigue over repetitive trials is another thing to consider. Temporal issues are also a huge concern. How long should each interval be. How much break between intervals? Always good to mix up interval length in seconds, minutes (hours and days becomes tough to arrange).

For testing, often times I let things play via headphones (HD 800 and SPL/ambience constant) and listening passively without criticizing or looking for things. Often times, when I switch to other conditions, I can pick up the changes without actively listening. Not the most scientific, but from my experience, my brain subconsciously gets a lot of things right when it comes to long lasting preferences.

Just my $0.05 CAD. Anyways, back to BDP-2.

BTW Aside from cables, I've found my solid state rig to react to isolation platforms and materials. Often times, the result is not the most desirable or natural.

[RipTorn]

Congratulations James and company,. Just a note ,I don't know how much the BDP 2 contributes to the sonics however I recently added an .AC conditioner including new aftermarket AC cords to the BDP and my dac ,..All I can say right now is WOW ,.

Well reading some of the responses I guess I must be wrong , I guess I'm not hearing a lowered noise floor along with the other Benifits that makes my listening pleasure even more enjoyable.
Retiring from the Chicago Symphony must of ruined my hearing to be taken in by this audio snake oil. Oh well

And by the way Mr.Tanner when someone pays you a friendly compliment at least have the manners to acknowledge it ,,,,However this wasn't the first time on Brystons threads ,...so long to you ,.

[James Tanner]

Well reading some of the responses I guess I must be wrong , I guess I'm not hearing a lowered noise floor along with the other Benifits that makes my listening pleasure even more enjoyable.
Retiring from the Chicago Symphony must of ruined my hearing to be taken in by this audio snake oil. Oh well

And by the way Mr.Tanner when someone pays you a friendly compliment at least have the manners to acknowledge it ,,,,However this wasn't the first time on Brystons threads ,...so long to you ,.

Hi RipTorn

Sorry - Not sure I understand?  Acknowledge a compliment?

james