Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?

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finsup

Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #40 on: 19 Jul 2016, 10:31 pm »
The old trick for breakin of speakers was to wire them out of phase, then make them face each other a foot or less away from each other. Then letter' rip. They will mostly cancel each others' output that way, so you won't hear them.

With open baffle this of course doesn't work as well. When I went through M1 breakin, I would lean 2'x4' GIK acoustic panels up against front and back in the morning before work, then crank the volume. 9-10 hrs a day of that while I was away for a couple weeks got me through the bulk of breakin process. Subtle changes after that.

I was just reading this thread and was going to suggest the same thing.  So, not having any experience with OB speakers, why doesn't wiring them out of phase not work as well? I was also going to suggest putting them in a spare room if you can to mitigate the volume with the volume turned up.  And, if you have neighbors, throw a blanket of them too.

Asking Clayton for amp recommendations in addition to the S500 Dragons or the LIO with MOSFET is something I would do.

Blueone302

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #41 on: 31 Jul 2016, 04:03 am »
Okay sports fans....  The M3's were delivered today.  I think I can put the amp pre-amp question I originally posted to rest.  The Decware Torii MK IV/Don Sachs SP 14 Model 2 obviously have what it takes to make them sing.  I see no weak link there.

Now for this break in thing. Of course I had to un-box them and hook em up.  By the way, they were packed extremely well.  The exterior of the shipping boxes had some gashes and divots in them.  Once unpacked, the speakers were pristine in appearance.  Check.

So I fired up the amp and pre, let them simmer for about 20 minuted and then got down to it.  (No, I wasn't dancing.)

First short version of honest impressions are....

Oh, and my wife sat for a while and said the vocals were better and that the overall sound was "more clear".

The Good:

The best vocal from any speaker I've ever heard.  Period.  And that was male or female, loud or soft, whisper or scream across every genre.  The articulation was fantastic on everything I played. 

Percussion....  Drums, cymbals, glockenspiel, triangle, rim shots, you name it, it was all there in spades.

The Bad....

Some mids are a bit too forward.  The high register, especially in the higher register on female voices is hard; what I call a bit strident and overpowering.  So much so in fact that the mid/highs really help exacerbate the observations about the bass response below.  I think I read this will relax?  If possible, I would like known outcomes from owners.  So share your thoughts here and on the next line.

Most disappointing aspect was that there was very feeble bass extension.  In fact, until I jacked the volume up to achingly loud, there was very little bass of any kind.  I would blame part of this on the still newish Duelund Caps in the Pre, however the Cornwall III's have no such issues with the same tracks. 

A side about the previous note on bass response.  I am optimistic.  When I bought the Cornwall's,  I got them from a guy in a bind who needed to sell them.  To be honest, I bought them to make a few hundred bucks.  At first, they were terrible.  No bass at all.  I chalked it up to room placement and old cd's and even older compressed recordings.  (And I do believe compression was a mitigating factor)  But, after five months, they've really came alive. so much so that I actually love them.   I would credit the pre, but they were sounding a lot better before I introduced the line stage.  So I went back and read the email from the guy I bought them from.  At the time, he couldn't tell me for sure how many hours were on them, but he guessed less than 100.  They had also been sitting unused for months.  All of this to say that I believe the Cornwall's coming alive is likely a combination of being played extensively for the last several months, and some micro tweaks in terms of placement.

Bottom line, I'm hoping the same happens with the M3's.  One way or the other, there's only room for one pair of speakers in my room.

So, if you happen to be passing through Gastonia, NC tomorrow on I-85 and hear loud music, it's just my Spatial M3's loosing up for their audition.

genjamon

Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #42 on: 31 Jul 2016, 04:49 am »
How far away from the walls are the M3's? You need some space, especially from the front wall, for full bass extension and output. Review the user manual for more info on that. Otherwise, I'd say give them some time. Though I don't recall the M1's being bass shy out of the box.



As for midrange/highs stridency, did you get the "S" version, or the standard? Upgraded crossover or not? The compression tweeter will take time to settle down, but those other upgrades also should help remove any stridency. Again, time is your friend with this.

zybar

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #43 on: 31 Jul 2016, 10:27 am »
Okay sports fans....  The M3's were delivered today.  I think I can put the amp pre-amp question I originally posted to rest.  The Decware Torii MK IV/Don Sachs SP 14 Model 2 obviously have what it takes to make them sing.  I see no weak link there.

Now for this break in thing. Of course I had to un-box them and hook em up.  By the way, they were packed extremely well.  The exterior of the shipping boxes had some gashes and divots in them.  Once unpacked, the speakers were pristine in appearance.  Check.

So I fired up the amp and pre, let them simmer for about 20 minuted and then got down to it.  (No, I wasn't dancing.)

First short version of honest impressions are....

Oh, and my wife sat for a while and said the vocals were better and that the overall sound was "more clear".

The Good:

The best vocal from any speaker I've ever heard.  Period.  And that was male or female, loud or soft, whisper or scream across every genre.  The articulation was fantastic on everything I played. 

Percussion....  Drums, cymbals, glockenspiel, triangle, rim shots, you name it, it was all there in spades.

The Bad....

Some mids are a bit too forward.  The high register, especially in the higher register on female voices is hard; what I call a bit strident and overpowering.  So much so in fact that the mid/highs really help exacerbate the observations about the bass response below.  I think I read this will relax?  If possible, I would like known outcomes from owners.  So share your thoughts here and on the next line.

Most disappointing aspect was that there was very feeble bass extension.  In fact, until I jacked the volume up to achingly loud, there was very little bass of any kind.  I would blame part of this on the still newish Duelund Caps in the Pre, however the Cornwall III's have no such issues with the same tracks. 

A side about the previous note on bass response.  I am optimistic.  When I bought the Cornwall's,  I got them from a guy in a bind who needed to sell them.  To be honest, I bought them to make a few hundred bucks.  At first, they were terrible.  No bass at all.  I chalked it up to room placement and old cd's and even older compressed recordings.  (And I do believe compression was a mitigating factor)  But, after five months, they've really came alive. so much so that I actually love them.   I would credit the pre, but they were sounding a lot better before I introduced the line stage.  So I went back and read the email from the guy I bought them from.  At the time, he couldn't tell me for sure how many hours were on them, but he guessed less than 100.  They had also been sitting unused for months.  All of this to say that I believe the Cornwall's coming alive is likely a combination of being played extensively for the last several months, and some micro tweaks in terms of placement.

Bottom line, I'm hoping the same happens with the M3's.  One way or the other, there's only room for one pair of speakers in my room.

So, if you happen to be passing through Gastonia, NC tomorrow on I-85 and hear loud music, it's just my Spatial M3's loosing up for their audition.

Hang in there and get hrs on them.

The items in your bad category will improve noticeably.

These are definitely not bass shy speakers and they sound good at 75-80 db's - you don't have to crank them once broken in.

As genjamon stated, placement is also key.  Placement to the front and side walls will impact how the speakers sound.

George

Blueone302

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #44 on: 31 Jul 2016, 04:56 pm »
Placement.  Right now they are about 39 inches from each sidewall, 42 out from back wall.  12 ft between the two.  I'm not gonna play with placement until I've got twenty-thirty hours on them.

CSI

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #45 on: 31 Jul 2016, 06:01 pm »
I have just over 100 hours on my M4's. I would suggest the following:

1. Follow Clayton's instructions closely during break in. Placement in particular will make a big difference. It will be experimental since all rooms are different.
2. Mine didn't have really satisfactory bass until about 75 hours. They have improved steadily since then. I no longer feel the need for a subwoofer.
3. My M4's have the older compression driver so, in theory, they should have a worse sibilance problem. But I had very little of that during break-in and even less now.
4. If sibilance persists after break-in, check your sources. They are pretty sensitive to that. For example, I frequently use streaming sources and find that Rhapsody is generally more listenable than Deezer although Deezer has more HF extension. I think Deezer may be a bit more forward in the upper mids which can account for it.
5. As usual with high res gear, everything (cables, room treatment) will make an audible difference. My Decware Torii Jr. sounds great, my LIO MOSFET amp even better (at least for bass control) and my Red Dragon S500 is the killer app.
6. No matter what you do they will improve with time.

logdar

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #46 on: 2 Aug 2016, 09:50 pm »
I have about 75 hrs on my M3s (I received them last thur).  With an Emotiva Stealth DAC running into the S500, I definitely do NOT have any bass issues.  But I know what you are taking about referring to the forward sense of the mids.  But I need more listening time to make a final decision.  For fun, I'm going to run the M3s tonight with a $500 Marantz PM5005 integrated amp.  Should be interesting to see if I can hear a difference.

zybar

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #47 on: 2 Aug 2016, 09:54 pm »
I have about 75 hrs on my M3s (I received them last thur).  With an Emotiva Stealth DAC running into the S500, I definitely do NOT have any bass issues.  But I know what you are taking about referring to the forward sense of the mids.  But I need more listening time to make a final decision.  For fun, I'm going to run the M3s tonight with a $500 Marantz PM5005 integrated amp.  Should be interesting to see if I can hear a difference.

You will hear a difference.

The M3's easily reveal all system changes (Amps, DACs, cables, tubes, power cords, and Ethernet cables) I have tried.

George

Blueone302

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #48 on: 7 Aug 2016, 04:56 am »
George,

  I noticed on another thread how you received your M3's on June 4th?  And then I think it was June 26th when you posted your impressions after initial run in.  Just curious; can you guesstimate how many hours you had on them at that point?

  I think I must have a little over twenty hours on them.  The top end has lost some of that strident sound. It's obviously smoother.  The low end bass extension is perhaps a tad better.  They are definitely capable.  I played some bass tracks (Albeit louder) and some test tones below 30Hz and they were able to dig them out. 

   I'd like to fully run them in so I can give them a fair shake before I get anywhere near the 45 day point.   I don't want to leave my Decware Amp running all day while I'm working, so I may hook them up to an older JVC HT amp and run it in pure audio mode for a couple of weeks.  Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.   

zybar

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #49 on: 7 Aug 2016, 11:17 am »
George,

  I noticed on another thread how you received your M3's on June 4th?  And then I think it was June 26th when you posted your impressions after initial run in.  Just curious; can you guesstimate how many hours you had on them at that point?

  I think I must have a little over twenty hours on them.  The top end has lost some of that strident sound. It's obviously smoother.  The low end bass extension is perhaps a tad better.  They are definitely capable.  I played some bass tracks (Albeit louder) and some test tones below 30Hz and they were able to dig them out. 

   I'd like to fully run them in so I can give them a fair shake before I get anywhere near the 45 day point.   I don't want to leave my Decware Amp running all day while I'm working, so I may hook them up to an older JVC HT amp and run it in pure audio mode for a couple of weeks.  Any thoughts or suggestions much appreciated.

I played the speakers 24/7 until I had a few hundred hrs on them.  After that the hrs logged were from joyful listening.  I lost track of total hrs, but it is way beyond the recommended number for break-in.

Having super efficient amps (non-tube amps) I had no concerns about running 24/7.

Your idea to run them on the HT amp is a good one.

Glad to hear that you are hearing improvements.  You have lots more to come since you only have around 20 hrs.

George

Blueone302

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #50 on: 24 Aug 2016, 05:24 am »
** Sparse Update **

   I've probably gotten a little over 100-20 hours on the Spatials.  I like them a lot.  However, I'm not yet settled in my evaluation.  Let me rewind a bit.

   I have them running with the Decware Torii MK IV and the Don Sachs SP14 via the Oppo 105D.  Bass is better.  Not optimal. (To me)  But a lot better.  Have not A/B'd them yet, but I think they are better overall than the Cornie's.   I got to this point primarily via run in,  playing with placement of the speakers (BIG difference) and a little tube rolling.  I can live with this as is and be pretty happy.  However, along the way and just because, I also introduced an old Sony 10 inch sub and they were even better.  IMO anyway.  So, the sub route is definitely an option down the road.  But, before I make any concrete decisions, I'm gonna let it stew a bit longer and do a head to head between the M3's and the Cornwall III's, the Decware Torii and a Class D SDS-470 C.  Hopefully, an AudioCircle Comrad with a VR LIO will be able to bring some of his toys to the party.  I'm also considering a version of a KT-88 Tube Amp, also built by Don.  I like my options.  I'll do the A/B evals by mid to late September, digest a bit and write the outcome up sometime in October.

  As a teaser, I will say this; over the last few days I've had some special moments with the latest iteration.  For grins I dug out an old Herb Alpert CD, "Blow Your Own Horn" and an Old Ray Charles CD, "My World".  Both have great bass lines on various songs.  Thing is, I've been listening to these two CD's for over twenty years.  And yet there were several times I caught myself looking to my left and right because the music was all around me.  That my friends is a cool bring a smile to your face feeling.  So yes, within the synergy of this present set up, everything, and I do mean almost everything is better.  As for my comments on my fondness for the low register, I may be a bit of a bass head after DJ'ing part time years ago.  Even now at 57, I still like my music a tad loud and when the music calls for it, I want to feel the bass. 

   I'm also not out to advertise for any particular builder, boast on whether it's all about a brand, tubes, solid state or class Z.  And quite honestly, I don't want to expand on or spend more on this hobby.  That said, music soothes me and settles me.  It gives me joy and it relaxes me.  Hope that makes sense.  I think this is one reason my wife is so patient and indulging.  So, in essence I just want to enjoy the music. Right now I am.

J

Magnaryder

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #51 on: 24 Aug 2016, 03:18 pm »
I've been following the Spatial Hologram M3 threads here and around the web for a while with great interest. My M3s were delivered yesterday afternoon. I'm driving them with an E.A.R. Yoshino V20. I'll follow up in a while with impressions after I get more time on the but the 45 minutes I did get to spend with them last evening was damn nice.

ray 

Guy 13

Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #52 on: 24 Aug 2016, 10:58 pm »
A warm welcome to AudioCircle Magnaryder.

Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.




Blueone302

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Re: Spatial M3 - What AMP and Source Are You Using?
« Reply #53 on: 24 Oct 2016, 03:36 am »
Felt like to be fair I needed to come back and mention how the M3's played out in my evaluation.  Long story short, I sent them back. Not so much because I didn't like them, but because they were simply not the best fit for my listening/living room.  If you want to read about it, I wrote a short novel about the whole odyssey and posted it over in the starting block section under "How Not to Build a System."