Crossover assembly 101

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gab

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #120 on: 22 Jan 2015, 08:54 pm »

I have this old pic about spacing/laying out coils too, hope it helps Perry:



From here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

Steve.

Danny - could you remark on this layout for me? I'm trying to reuse a nice box I have laying around to keep from building a new one (for my center channel external crossover). Trying to follow #7 from the troelsrgravesen link above. Thanks!

gab



Danny Richie

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #121 on: 22 Jan 2015, 10:22 pm »
Are the brown paper cylinders coils as well? 

gab

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #122 on: 22 Jan 2015, 10:26 pm »
Are the brown paper cylinders coils as well?

yes - just wrapped around the coils during shipping from Sonicraft. Haven't removed them yet.

EDIT - I just measured the inductance values with my LCR meter and didn't see any mutual inductance coupling issues as laid out above. Same measurement as standalone inductor measurement. I also couldn't really get them to interact very much at all no matter which way they were placed. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

gab

Danny Richie

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #123 on: 22 Jan 2015, 10:49 pm »
Okay, the three wrapped in paper and the foil one on the bottom right is going to be just like illustration number 5.

Measuring the inductance is not going to tell you anything. The inductance values won't change.

gab

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #124 on: 22 Jan 2015, 11:35 pm »
Okay, the three wrapped in paper and the foil one on the bottom right is going to be just like illustration number 5.

Measuring the inductance is not going to tell you anything. The inductance values won't change.

Then I am confused by the trolsen do's and don'ts illustration. I see that this crossover from Skiing Ninja looks like a configuration "7" to me, not a "5"




For example, the 2 coils mounted closely together show the one laying flat has the air gap pointing in an up/down arrangement and the one adjacent to it has the air gap pointing in an east/west arrangement as opposed to the air gap pointing directly towards the flat inductor. That to my eyes is a illustration "7" not a "5". BTW - I am presuming that Skiing Ninja has oriented the coils properly.

In my layout it may be hard to see but the 3 inductors laying flat have the air gap pointing in a up/down position and the four foil inductors (in the cardboard tubes and without) standing upright on the MDF board have the air gap pointing in either a east/west or north/south arrangement versus the air gap pointing directly towards its adjacent flat inductor. To my eyes, I have done the same thing as Skiing Ninja did and it appears to be a illustration number 7 not an illustration number 5.

What am I not getting?

Regarding my LCR meter measurements not being reflective of inductor coupling, do you know what measurement equipment Troels may have used in making the coupling measurements as shown here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

Network analyzer versus an LCR meter? Guess I need to start reading up on this stuff (like maybe here: http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5967-5377E.pdf)

gab



Danny Richie

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #125 on: 23 Jan 2015, 12:27 am »
Quote
What am I not getting?

Sean's placement is just like number 7. Yours are too if you take away the two foil inductors at the bottom. But if you just look at the foil inductors only then they are just like number 5 in their orientation towards each other.

And the way to measure them is to pass a signal from one to the other. In other words read the coupling with acoustic output of a driver connected to a coil that is near another coil that is actually getting the signal.

gab

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #126 on: 23 Jan 2015, 04:40 am »
Sean's placement is just like number 7. Yours are too if you take away the two foil inductors at the bottom. But if you just look at the foil inductors only then they are just like number 5 in their orientation towards each other.

And the way to measure them is to pass a signal from one to the other. In other words read the coupling with acoustic output of a driver connected to a coil that is near another coil that is actually getting the signal.

Thanks Danny. I get it now. I'm going to work out a new layout tomorrow and run it by you. I'm going to still try to re-use that box (which is looking less promising, but who knows). Regardless, I learned a lot today! :thumb:

Captainhemo

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #127 on: 26 Jun 2016, 05:11 pm »
I'm finally taking the plunge and building some networks  myself.
Just a quick question, is it better to split the negative leg say at the input connector before picking up components from both a high pass and low pass filter (so both  filtes basically have their own neg lead going back to the input), or can  all components going to ground  connect at one spot then the   neg lead split into two parts and sent to each  driver ?

jay

mlundy57

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #128 on: 26 Jun 2016, 05:45 pm »
Jay,

Six of one, half dozen of the other. I've done it both ways. For me it comes down to which is going to be easiest and/or cleanest to layout.  The tube connectors can handle up to three of the 16ga wires. If I have more than one wire going into the tube connector I twist the wires together before inserting into the tube connector. On the NX-Otica networks I just built, each of the three sections had their own positive and negative leads going to the tube connectors.

Also, when the polarity gets reversed at the driver(s) there are two ways to do the color coding: (1) code the wires coming off the network toward the drivers so that white wires connect to the negative poles of the drivers and red wires connect to the positive poles i.e. reverse the polarity with the color coding; (2) color code the wires so that they correspond to the tube connector (from the amp) so that the red wires coming off the board are connected to the positive tube connector and the white wires are connected to the negative tube connector then reverse polarity at the drivers as necessary.

I find the first method confusing when reading a wiring diagram that shows the polarity being reversed at the drivers. Plus if I or somebody else has to work on the network later and either forgot or didn't know the color coding had been reversed it could be a headache so I prefer to use method 2, Keep the color coding consistent with the amp input. Either way works, it's just which you find easiest to work with.

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #129 on: 26 Jun 2016, 07:26 pm »
AThanks Mike,  that is what I thought but I wanted to be sure.
I agree, method one of color coding could be confusing, better to stay as the  schematic shows.

I did notice in  the pics you had split all  3 legs  at the connectors.... I'm building so P2P Encore networks and thought it might be easier to have the 3 components that go to ground all conected at the same point then split the  neg wire to each driver

I will post a pic soon

jay

mlundy57

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #130 on: 26 Jun 2016, 09:02 pm »
AThanks Mike,  that is what I thought but I wanted to be sure.
I agree, method one of color coding could be confusing, better to stay as the  schematic shows.

I did notice in  the pics you had split all  3 legs  at the connectors.... I'm building so P2P Encore networks and thought it might be easier to have the 3 components that go to ground all conected at the same point then split the  neg wire to each driver

I will post a pic soon

jay

When I built the N3 and all the Encores I only had one negative and one positive wire connected to the tube connectors then split off just before the first driver.

You could run the wire all the way from the crossover to the first driver then jumper up to the second driver (two wires twisted together soldered to the tabs of the first driver, one from the crossover and the other to the second driver).

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #131 on: 27 Jun 2016, 03:20 am »
When I built the N3 and all the Encores I only had one negative and one positive wire connected to the tube connectors then split off just before the first driver.

You could run the wire all the way from the crossover to the first driver then jumper up to the second driver (two wires twisted together soldered to the tabs of the first driver, one from the crossover and the other to the second driver).

Mike

This is not for drivers in paralle (like the Otticas, N3's, Encore CS's  etc), I do that in cases  where it applies but not here

jay

Captainhemo

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #132 on: 5 Jul 2016, 04:19 pm »
finally  laid thiee out, just need to solder up and wire



rockdrummer

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #133 on: 4 Dec 2016, 02:05 pm »
I have a question about crossover placement and grill magnets. I have two small neo magnets on each side that will be, at the absolute closest, about 2 inches from the very corner of the super v crossover.  I am using Danny's layout like the pics on page 3 of this thread. So there are coils somewhat near those magnets.

I have no idea if that can affect anything. 

Do any of you have an opinion?
Thanks.
Ben

Captainhemo

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #134 on: 7 Dec 2016, 04:41 pm »
I don't think they will be an issue Ben. IIRC , in one of the Ottica threads, Danny had mentioned it wasn't an issue with the  magnets on the drivers so I doublt the little  ND grill magnets  will be a concern

jay

rockdrummer

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #135 on: 8 Dec 2016, 09:33 pm »
Thanks Jay.  I was hoping that was the case.  Digging the magnets out was going to be the end of me.

ben

Danny Richie

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #136 on: 9 Dec 2016, 01:21 am »
Those magnets are small enough and the inductors are far enough away for them to be okay.

pinkfloyd4ever

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #137 on: 2 Jan 2017, 01:46 am »




Danny, I'm finally working on my Insignia upgrades I ordered back in April  :?

Does my inductor positioning look ok to you (or anyone else who knows)? Specifically the stock one relative to the 0.47 Erse.

Btw, have you ever considered having crossover PCBs made for your bigger selling DIY kits?
« Last Edit: 2 Jan 2017, 03:09 am by pinkfloyd4ever »

Danny Richie

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Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #138 on: 2 Jan 2017, 03:59 am »
Yeah, that looks good.

And all of our X-Series speakers have fully assembled crossovers.

rockdrummer

Re: Crossover assembly 101
« Reply #139 on: 12 Feb 2017, 02:18 pm »
I am wiring super v crossovers. One of the inductors seems to have coating going to the end of the wire. I have two questions, do I need to remove that coating for conducting/soldering purposes? And can i sand that coating off?
Thanks. Ben