[rosconey]

quote
Close to 500 hits and no comments on all the pics I posted and all of two people seem to be interesting in my impressions -one I think really being a 'sympathy post' (thanks Stace).
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-waaaaaaaaaaaaa
or is it the opera singer attitude-me me me,me me me.
i know a whiny opera singer yeh thats it me waaaaa me waaaaaa me waaaaaa.

[Hank]

Okay, I'll post a sympathy post.  Sympathy for you having to manhandle/move those monsters.  The pair I built for Danny were unbelievable heavy.

Okay, feel better?

Now post some photos so we can admire.

I imagine the paucity of posts is due to the fact that most guys' wives will not allow them in their homes.  For the lucky few that are allowed, I say BUILD 'EM!

[audiojerry]

Azryan,

It looks like you are now getting some positive responses the last couple of days. I'm sure there will be more. Your post is beginning to get some of the attention it deserves.
   
Thank you for the really thorough narrative on your experience and impressions with the Alpha's. You demonstrate a very good understanding of speakers and how the Alpha's compare to other speakers you have had experience with. I am very much in agreement with your viewpoints in that regard. The Alpha drivers and their implementation in a line array seem to create a room loading ability that is completely different from the point source that I am used to.

I am hoping that jonwb, who lives within spitting distance, will be inspired to get his completed and invite me to listen.    If they are as good as you say, it may me impossible for me not to order a pair for myself!  

Danny is a very experienced and knowledgeable speaker designer, and the application of his talents and theories must show their full potential with the Alpha. They must be his 'Statement' speaker, and I hope that he will be able to continue to stock the components required to build them.   Less than $2000 for the components, and less than $5000 for a finished pair represents incredible value.

[azryan]

rnhood,

Thanks. I can only say what I hear, and compare to what I've heard and that's what I found. Other people might hear something diff. and/or prefer something diff.
I wouldn't be so silly as to say this is the best speaker in the world since that's just a realm of endless and pointless debate IMO.

"How much do these Alpha's weigh all up?"

I don't really know at all. Clearly far more than I do (135). Danny said 200-250lbs., but I just followed his PDF file so I'm thinking the exact weight should be almost exactly what Danny's are -whatever exactly that is?

"And, can you give me a comment or two on that eART digital amplifier?"

I've written a review of it back when I got it. I'll try to find it and link it to you. I wrote in on the HD forum -should still be there I'm hoping.

It seemed to be maybe a bigger diff. going to it from diff. solid state, and one other Tripath based digital amp, as now going from the Newforms to the Alphas, but that could be partly based on the order of upgrades.
VERY dynamic, totally smooth (no digital dryness, yet nothing warmed over). When I put into my system I thought the Outlaw might hold it back to the point of there being no point of having such an amp, but the diff. was obvious and instant. I told my wife also that if she didn't hear any diff. that I'd send it back. It's just too much $ to have her feel it didn't do anything. She told me not to send it back. I believe it's the most accurate and high end part of my system -not to take anything away from the Alphas at all. I'm lucky I got it when they were intro priced, or I couldn't do it now.

Then again w/ the Alphas I could go w/ a lower powered (cheaper) eAR model.

jacket-fan,

"Did you post some on the Outlaw forum during the "we expect to ship in three weeks" times?"

Yeah. I was one of the first to get a 950. I didn't have that noise prob. w. mine, but later sent it in and got a 'blue dot' 950 for the hell of it. I think maybe it was the noise filter element of the eARTwo that blocked it? I can have the volume cranked to -0db and w/ my ear to the Newforms and now Alphas there's only a slight hint of noise, which when seated normal is FAR beyond audible.
I know there's better DAC elements and I'd like that new Denon 2900 or a modded universal player from Modwright, but I'm still up in the air.

Thanks for you comments too.

Brian,

"You call that a picture!? I can't tell a thing about the finish with that pic.-"

Oh man! hehe I SAID it's one of several to come! hehe I said I'm waiting for my buddy to email me the dig. cam pics. There are some closer up shots, but now I'm going to take one that only shows the veneer just for you! heh

"Is it maple?"

Red birch. VERY much like maple, but reddish instead of yellowish. My room paint is 4 shades of reddish brown so the veneer is a perfect match. Oddly enough the whole thing matches the tone of cardboard box.

"-The guy was originally going to paint them black but then decided he didn't have time, so he ended up having us put that damn Parts Express vinyl on the enclosures. It ended up looking half way decent, but I'd have much preferred using a real veneer.-"

Oh man... you've gotta use real wood. You must've had a hard time seeing him do that.

So you're going to build a pair for yourself? I was wondering if you were.

wshuff,

"-How do you decide whether the ribbon or woofers go inboard or outboard? Is it for aesthetic reasons, or does the orientation effect the sound?"

Danny's pics show them on the outside so I did it that way. The off axis response is great it might work fine either way? Maybe Danny can say more about this.
I could always switch it if I hear a technical reason why it's better to have the Neos on the inside.

jonwb,

"-...and he has a Miata. I got one of them too... this is getting creepy(er) by the minute."

Hehe... and man was it hard hauling the MDF home from Home Depot in it! hehe

"what did you use for wiring?"

Danny sent me some simple OFC stuff. 14 ga. I think. I'm not a wire tweeker. At least not yet.

"internal or external crossover?"

Internal. There's plenty of space for it, and I just didn't want to go external for looks. I've got them bi wired so there should be plenty of copper running inside them, and dead enough that the x-over isn't getting vibed and damaging the signal. Just my preference. I know others have VERY strong wire opinions.

"-standard caps or fancy caps?"

I upgraded to the Sonicaps. I believe in the x-over there's SO much more wire than in your speaker wire, and it's of such smaller ga. that if you're going to tweek it oughta go into the quality of x-over parts first.
I heard a slight but noticalbe diff. going from some cheapo cap to top of the line Theta cap on the Newform ribbon, I decided I'd get the best for the Alphas too.

Hope you get to building your own! I'd love to hear your review copared to the things you've heard. That helps SO much IMO in helping to figure out all sorts of components that we might not be able to hear until we buy them.

rosconey,

Hehe... I was just shocked that no one seemed interested.

I'm not looking for pats on the back or anything. I wasn't 'asking' for sympathy posts, I was thanking Wshuff for posting what I knew 'was' a sympathy post. hehe
I'd just like to make that clear.
There's all of 'zero' Alpha reviews and it's Danny's best. Seemed weird. -though I've read a lot of impressions from limited time w/ them.

Hank,

Thanks man! I gotta tell ya...to build mine, I just copied your pics, and changed the veneer!
It would have been a lot harder without them. I'm sure the ones you built are better though.
But for a novice like me they're very dead, and the drivers fit tightly, and the veneer looks mostly killer IMO which is good enough for me.

Ya know, they really don't 'look' that heavy. Then you touch them and it's about twice what you imagine! hehe.

Thanks Jerry!

[F-100]

Azryan,
  I admire your woodworking skill. It's amazing what a man can build with a cheap circular saw and a $2 blade. Congratulation, you should be proud of your new toy.

BTW, if you don't mind telling us how much cost for the entire project (not including your hard labor and tools).

Thanks

[drphoto]

My response to your post is that I got the Alpha plans from Danny today and am going to start on my own set.

I was just going to get the Diluceo, but your thread has encouraged me to pursue this, as I always wanted a line source anyway.

I'll try the cabinets, and if I can't get it right, will just call Brian.

I can't believe you cut the wood with a circular saw. I can't even cross cut a damn 2x4 straight. Will probably have a cabinet shop do the cuts on a table saw, then do the assembly and routing myself.

Thanks for all the info.

[azryan]

F-100,

"-It's amazing what a man can build with a cheap circular saw and a $2 blade.-"

Thanks a lot! But really, I'm no builder.
I grew up around a shop-like garage, but really never did anything like is ever. That's the point I wanted to make.
If you've got the time and space, it's not terribly hard. It helps to have some saw horses to cut on. I used milk crates on the garage floor!! My back ended up killing me! hehe

"-BTW, if you don't mind telling us how much cost for the entire project (not including your hard labor and tools)."

Mostly the cost was Danny's kit, ~$100 for sonicap upgrade, plus ~$200 for 4 sheets of blackhole 5 (yikes! But it is good stuff).
Then there's the $120 for 5 sheets of MDF (I have a 'map' I made of how to cut it all up that worked well for me w/ little scrap), $13 for Titebond2 wood glue, fat floor spikes and binding posts from Parts Express ( =Danny rec. top quality but costly binding posts, but I went w/ the 091-1245 from Pt. Exp. I'm a cheapskate I guess).
Veneer was $200 (maple, birch and oak are the cheapest at the local place), already had the polycoat and black base plate paint from doing the subs in the same finish.

I got lost along the way adding it all up, but I think about $2,500 or $2,600-ish.

I did have to buy a $30 circ. saw, $50 circle jigs, $30 router, $25 roundover set, got some free straight bits from a neighbor and library (why does a library have router bits???) and the $2 saw blade. Already had the drill and my wife's 'Do it Herself' toolkit w/ screwdriver, torx bits, etc... hehe

Overall I just call it well under $3K, and I've got tools and better skills now to do other stuff sometime. I'm going to do a equipt. shelf next, so I can have a row of equip. on the floor (on glass) and another row above it.

drphoto,

"I was just going to get the Diluceo, but your thread has encouraged me to pursue this, as I always wanted a line source anyway."
GREAT!
I know YOU'll take pics too!

No doubt those Diluceo's are killer for what they are -awesome Eton cones, true ribbon tweeter, and technically flatter response than the Alphas, but then there's the laundry list of Alpha benefits.

I'd like a 'dead flat' speaker, but really it's just a slight tonal character diff., and there are far more advantages in lower distortion, eff. power handling, dynamics, bass loading, bass range, etc...

What do you use now? What are some of the best speakers you've heard? You can PM me if you want or whatever.

If you have someone build the cabinets fully it'll be a breeze for you. It was very easy to solder the x-over and the drivers. I soldered the drivers in my HT room so I didn't have to move a finished speaker around (plus it was 107 outside, so I was done working in the garage)!

"-I can't believe you cut the wood with a circular saw. I can't even cross cut a damn 2x4 straight."

Cutting MDF is easier I think. I didn't freehand it that's for sure. I measured everything very carefully (then measured it again!), then clamped down a 4' long ruler butting up against the edge of the saw's flat edge. You just have to find out how far the ruler has to be from the measured line so that the blade cuts right on the line.

All this is is an upside-down table saw. Same thing really, and as table saw accurate if you set yourself up right.

Remember the saw blade makes like an 1/8" fat cut, and your measured lines should be sharp pencil thin, so cut TO the line not down the middle of it, or inside it making the cut piece too narrow.

And once you cut the first piece... uh... say a 'side piece', then you can use that MDF edge (the outside edge from the factory cut sheet) as a perfect straight edge to guide the circ. saw w/ the rest of the cuts, eventually you'll have a scrap piece that you can save for always having an 8 foot straight edge!
You can use an uncut sheet of MDF to cut that first (easier to handle) piece. Then you don't need to clamp down a ruler that's shorter than the cuts you want.

I thought this up halfway through, and wish I would've done it from the start.

"Will probably have a cabinet shop do the cuts on a table saw, then do the assembly and routing myself."

Assembly and routing are the much harder part IMO -though not hard or anything. I cut that stack of all the MDF (in my first pic) over a few days over a month ago. It was so fast it hurt to see it all sitting there for a month not being able to afford the kit -and expected to have it sit there for maybe up to 6 months even. Things just worked out now.

Set the blade to cut just a hair deeper than each 3/4" MDF sheet, and using that cheapo $2 fine tooth blade, it just zips right through like butter.

Then you can say 'you built them' 100%. That's extra cool for sure! hehe

I built my sonotube end caps w/ a $15 jig saw and cut the circles by hand and filed them smooth. Now THAT was HARD -and stoopid! hehe

[Brian Bunge]

Ryan's right.  Cutting the MDF is the easy part.  Routing all the holes, while not hard, is very time consuming and really wore on me over the course of six baffles.  

Ryan, $200 for veneer?  For how many sheets?  Just 2 or was it 3?  I don't see a specific price posted for red birch, but in the future you might want to check www.tapeease.com for veneer.  Even with shipping their prices have been nearly half of any place I've found local to me.

[wshuff]

drphoto,

Louisville?  What state?  If Kentucky, then I'd love to hear the Alphas when you get them finished (and with all this good discussion, I know you are inspired).  I'll offer the same deal.  You provide the speakers, I'll bring the cheap American beer.  Deal?

[azryan]

Brian,

Yeah $200 for 2 sheets. Each 4'x8'.

Damn, so that place is like half price?? Man! Well, the one thing I can say for 'in town' is that you can hand pick the veneer sheets.
There were several sheets at the place I got mine and the two I bought were clearly from the same cutting. There were others that looked very diff. in both grain and color.

If you're going to stain it, I suppose that makes the diff. much less important, but I just poly coated mine.

I started it at the outside edge of the neo slot and it reaches all the way around and back to the front just past halfway over the woofer holes. Then I used the 2' trimming off the top to cover the top, bottom (for the hell of it) and the area between the neo slot and the center of the woofers. At those spots the diff. pieces of veneer only have ~an 1/8" touching so you can't see the connection at all.

I stuck one side down then overlapped the other piece.

Then I trimmed the overlap a bit, and carefully filed the overlap down to the venner's paper layer.

Then I could push that veneer down totally flush w/ the already stuck down side, and lightly sanded so there's no gap.

Looks the same as how most veneer's made up of a few sections anyway.

Maybe that was the 'hard way'? I dunno. It's all I could think of and it works. I shoulda asked you probably how to do it, but didn't wan't to bother you.

[Brian Bunge]

I'm not really concerned about matching the veneer.  I can order sequence matched sheets for a small upcharge.  I've done this on several occasions and they've all come out just fine.  I'd sure check with Tape-Ease before I bought any more veneer local; just to be safe of course.  I've also just about had it with paperbacked veneers.  We've had way too much trouble with it.  The NBL stuff has been MUCH better quality than any of the paperbacked stuff we've bought.  It's more expensive, but well worth it, IMHO.

[azryan]

Thanks. Man, I wish I woulda known! hehe

[BradJudy]

The NBL stuff has been MUCH better quality than any of the paperbacked stuff we've bought.  It's more expensive, but well worth it, IMHO.

I have an upcoming project that will be my first adventure in any veneering beyond edging.  I had been planning on ordering something from oakwood (http://www.oakwoodveneer.com), but am interested in your comments.  Have you bought from Oakwood and would you recommend the NBL veneer from TapeEase instead?  

I've been reading up on veneering tips and tricks - any suggestions for beginners.  I've seen your work and know you guys know what you're doing.    (I definitely plan on several test runs on scraps before the actual project.)

Thanks

[Brian Bunge]

Brad,

I've never ordered from oakwood so I can't comment on them.  I've found that the veneer facing on the NBL veneer is much better than any of the paperbacked veneers we've bought and we've not had any trouble with the NBL veneer bubbling like we've had with paperbacked.

Tape-Ease has veneering tips on their website and that's what I've always gone by.  Use contact cement and either a veneer hammer to scrape the veneer (gives better pressure than a J-roller) or you can use the edge of a solid piece of wood to scrape the veneer.  Use the solvent based contact cement, which can be bought at HD or Lowe's, and make sure you have good ventilation.

[gotmikey]

I just finished slapping on my first sheet of veneer I got on E-bay on the backside of one of my Ellis 1801's.  At first I was a bit nervous of veneering and the results I would get, but I must say if you follow directions veneering is simple, simple, simple.  I used Dapwood contact cement and it works great.  Just as others stated above, make sure you have ADEQUATE ventilation.  I was gonna do it in my garage with all the doors open , but when a can says, "BEFORE USE TURN OFF MAIN GAS VALVE" you start to think twice.     Just make sure you let it gas off for about twenty minutes and stick on there carefully.  The results are rewarding.

[BradJudy]

Thank to both of you for the advice.  I'll look at ordering NBL from TapeEase when the time comes and I'll read through their tips.  Any advice on finishing (gloss)?  There are a number of methods and opinions.  Brian, if you don't mind saying, what do you do on the GR speakers?  I'm guessing I'll do alright with what I do, but thought I'd ask.

[azryan]

C'mon guys.. talking veneer as it relates to the Alpha kit like cost and how to apply it was cool, but just veneer talk in general is off topic.

You guys should be PM'ing Brian IMO, or starting a new thread, or going to his forum for more of this.

I wouldn't want people to stop reading this thread 'cuz it looked like it stopped having anything to do w/ Danny's Alpha kit. How often does this kit get spotlighted? Almost never?

I'm going to be posting several new pics soon, and will post the link here. Don't want people to miss it if they were interested in seen closer-up shots of Alphas.
They look awesome from behind too! Those 4 flared ports are killer.

So back to Alpha kit comments ok?

[jonwb]

So back to Alpha kit comments ok?

The Alphas sure are tall, aren't they?  




Just kidding!  Actually, if you do some searches on this forum, hometheaterforum.com and harmonicdiscord.com, you'll find Brian has posted basically step-by-step instructions... so do a little homework and don't make the poor guy type it all out again.

OK, Ryan, I got a couple Alpha construction ?'s for you:
1. Did you solder your connections to the speakers or use crimp-on terminals (and why)?
2. When you routered your recess for the tweeters, did you just make it the length called out on the plans or did you have to tweek it a little?
3.  Any stuffing in the tweeter cavity?
4.  What type of fasteners did you use to attach the drivers to the enclosures?
5.  Did you paint the silver rivets on the Neo8's?

Thanks,
Jon

Audiojerry... consider yourself invited.  I'm shooting for the end of June.  You may need to bring some electronics w/ you since I'm still pretty much a mid-fi guy  

[Brian Bunge]

Jon,

Actually, the weight of the cabinets is more substantial than the height!

And don't worry, I ain't gonna post step by step veneer instructions again!  Once was enough.

Brad,

Currently we're using polyurethane in satin, semi-gloss, and high gloss finishes.  They're wipe-on polys as we are not set up to spray finishes at the moment.

Ryan,

Actually, I kinda like threads that sort of ramble off course and then come back around to the original topic naturally.  I think it makes them more personable and light hearted.  But then again, I think I sometimes just like to hear myself talk!  

[drphoto]

Ryan,

Since I'm considering this project (inspired by your results!) I'm really interested in seeing more detailed constuction pics.

In particular, I'm a bit confused about the shape of divider that forms the tweeter compartment...based on the plan.

Hopefully you can set up a gallery here. (or you could email me all that you have)

BTW: did you 'round off' the front baffle edges? After seeing my neighbors Proacs...I actually kinda like the look of razor sharp edges, but maybe there are sonic benifits to rounding.

On the veneer isssue....I might go with an auto type paint finish. I think these would look really sharp in Porsche metallic silver/clearcoat.