I bet I can make your speakers sound better.

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Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #60 on: 24 Nov 2015, 06:42 pm »
They have the upgraded parts from you, but I guess I was wondering if there is a change that might match the tweeter just a little bit better. (I suspect most people wouldn't notice, their amp wouldn't show them the tweeter being faster)

All tweeters are faster than woofers. Speed is really the measure of how fast they dissipate stored energy and all of that relates to moving mass in a big way.

In this model the crossover point is really low. This means the tweeter more easily and seamlessly integrates with the woofer. They are also dead on in a phase relationship. So they blend together a LOT better than just about any mini-monitors out there.

So I think you are just hearing resolution levels that are beyond the norm.

Folsom

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #61 on: 24 Nov 2015, 06:54 pm »
I think with the Sonicap upgrades you're hearing the best those tweeters can do.  If it's still not satisfying then it may be time to explore other speakers.  Danny's N-Series offers more resolution and speed while still being extremely easy to listen to with no ear fatigue.

The problem isn't the tweeter, it's really good. The problem is it's nearly too good for the woofer.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #62 on: 24 Nov 2015, 07:39 pm »
The problem isn't the tweeter, it's really good. The problem is it's nearly too good for the woofer.

Actually, that is also a really good woofer. The quality levels match very well.

Freo-1

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #63 on: 25 Nov 2015, 10:31 pm »
Looking forward to the pics and your assessment of the expected improvement in sound.

Thanks! 

Got the speakers back yesterday.  Although the crossovers still need to break-in, I can safely report that the improvement is nothing short of astounding. 

 


The parts take up most of a 8" by 12" enclosure.  Compare to the stock unit:

 


The sound is much improved across the entire audio spectrum.  The bass is fuller, yet tighter.  The mid-range is significantly improved in clarity, and the treble sounds as if a new and improved tweeter is in the speaker.  Given what manufactures charge for their better speakers, makes one wonder why they often don't put better parts in the crossovers.  I got a education some time back when I had crossovers re-done in a pair of Legacy speakers.  The parts in those were not very good quality.

The improvement is so good, that I would put this up against the V.2 version of the SCM 19, and I bet this would sound better.  The major difference is the V.2 has a new tweeter, made in house vice the scanspeak in the V1.  The woofer/mid is the same.

Danny, I am floored at the difference.  The fact that I have a second set of stock speakers to compare them to really allows the differences to be focused on. 

I'll post an update in a week or two after the caps break in.  Should only get better. 

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #64 on: 25 Nov 2015, 10:49 pm »
Thanks! 

Got the speakers back yesterday.  Although the crossovers still need to break-in, I can

Post some pics and feedback when you get a chance.

Freo-1

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #65 on: 25 Nov 2015, 10:54 pm »
Post some pics and feedback when you get a chance.

Copy that.  Just posted the update.   :D

  

Folsom

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #66 on: 25 Nov 2015, 11:27 pm »
Actually, that is also a really good woofer. The quality levels match very well.

I don't disagree, but I won't say no to possibilities. I've been trying to think of ways to encourage what I want. Do you have a picture of the bottom of the PCB board? I can open my speakers, but it's much harder than looking at a JPEG.

Did you ever do any NOrh speakers Danny? I bet you could make them sound amazing, given how much those rather special enclosures did for them to begin with, but they needed crossover help. For awhile everyone on here had them.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #67 on: 25 Nov 2015, 11:44 pm »
I don't disagree, but I won't say no to possibilities. I've been trying to think of ways to encourage what I want. Do you have a picture of the bottom of the PCB board? I can open my speakers, but it's much harder than looking at a JPEG.

Did you ever do any NOrh speakers Danny? I bet you could make them sound amazing, given how much those rather special enclosures did for them to begin with, but they needed crossover help. For awhile everyone on here had them.

Are we talking about different speakers? What woofer are you talking about?

I have looked at the NOrh speakers. And I have used those drivers in other designs.

Folsom

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #68 on: 25 Nov 2015, 11:47 pm »
Are we talking about different speakers? What woofer are you talking about?

I have looked at the NOrh speakers. And I have used those drivers in other designs.

I'm talking about the X-LS encore. I'd like to see the crossover bottom.

I just meant to the title of this thread, that NOrh speakers would be something you could bring up to date to be current. The other night I stumbled upon them again for some reason, and it occurred to me you could do some magic with them since their crossovers are considered to be pretty poor.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #69 on: 25 Nov 2015, 11:51 pm »
Copy that.  Just posted the update.   :D

  

I'm not a big fan of those caps. But they are a big improvement over what was stock.

Lots of binding posts in there as well. Those equal a lot of insertion loss. Some tube connectors would be a big improvement. I'd highly recommend them.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #70 on: 25 Nov 2015, 11:52 pm »
I'm talking about the X-LS encore. I'd like to see the crossover bottom.

Yeah, if you start comparing that woofers to others out there, and especially look at the spectral decay, it is pretty tough to beat.

What do you mean by the crossover bottom?

Folsom

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #71 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:03 am »
Yeah, if you start comparing that woofers to others out there, and especially look at the spectral decay, it is pretty tough to beat.

What do you mean by the crossover bottom?

I don't have a schematic, or a picture of the bottom on hand. I've come up with one minor change that might do what I'd like with the X-LS. Again, I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement, but I believe there's a minor possibility without having to graduate to a whole new class of speaker.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #72 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:14 am »
I don't have a schematic, or a picture of the bottom on hand. I've come up with one minor change that might do what I'd like with the X-LS. Again, I don't think there's a lot of room for improvement, but I believe there's a minor possibility without having to graduate to a whole new class of speaker.

Well, I have all of that information and I know what those woofers are capable of. Give me a call and I'll go over some options with you that will take them up a notch.

Freo-1

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #73 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:16 am »
I'm not a big fan of those caps. But they are a big improvement over what was stock.

Lots of binding posts in there as well. Those equal a lot of insertion loss. Some tube connectors would be a big improvement. I'd highly recommend them.

Well, so far, I'm noticing a huge improvement in sound.  I can certainly look into tube connectors.

What caps do you like?  I have always liked Mundorf caps.

BTW, I really like the woofer in this speaker.  Hard to find a better built 6" driver.

 

srb

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #74 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:26 am »
BTW, I really like the woofer in this speaker.  Hard to find a better built 6" driver.

Looks a bit anemic and wimpy.  ;)

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #75 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:29 am »
Well, so far, I'm noticing a huge improvement in sound.  I can certainly look into tube connectors.

What caps do you like?  I have always liked Mundorf caps.

I prefer the Sonicaps for this application. They are a little clearly and preserve the imaging and sound stage a little better. And the tube connectors are huge. I am more impressed with them every time I get to A/B them with anything else.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #76 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:32 am »
BTW, I really like the woofer in this speaker.  Hard to find a better built 6" driver.

This woofer reminds me of what I see all the time in car audio. They put a motor structure on a woofer that is three or four times what it needs to be then just increase the distance in the gap to drop the field strength back down. They could keep a tighter gap and drop the magnet weight, but that would require higher assembly tolerances and it would loose the look of having a big magnet. And be magnets sell product.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #77 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:34 am »

BTW, I really like the woofer in this speaker.  Hard to find a better built 6" driver.

 

And for me I would rather see some venting below the spider and a non resonant polymer frame.

Looks good though huh?

Freo-1

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #78 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:38 am »
I prefer the Sonicaps for this application. They are a little clearly and preserve the imaging and sound stage a little better. And the tube connectors are huge. I am more impressed with them every time I get to A/B them with anything else.

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm going to keep the Mundorf caps, as I really like them.  I can look into tube connectors. 

I also need to make a second set of crossovers for my other speakers.  I may look into Sonicaps.  I used Jupiter caps in the 6883B power amps (as opposed to Mundorfs in the 1625 amps), and they sound excellent.

Freo-1

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #79 on: 26 Nov 2015, 12:40 am »
And for me I would rather see some venting below the spider and a non resonant polymer frame.

Looks good though huh?

Trust me, it sounds VERY good as well.  Have not heard a better 6" driver yet.