[neobop]

The interconnects come out directly from the Rega arm shaft and they are Rega stock and they are shielded.
Then, they go to the Bellari VP-129 phono stage.

Guy,
Looks like you have a bigger problem.  Unless those wires change color in the arm tube, you shouldn't be getting those results.  The black wire should not be making contact with the left positive (black positive?).  That should be the white wire only.  The color scheme is as I posted above.  Maybe you wrote it down wrong?

The right channel is red and green.  The left is white and blue.  Did you untangle those wires at the cartridge? 

If that ground strap only contacts plastic, you'll have to create a ground inside the arm.  Maybe that's why Rega has it connected to the channel ground in the first place.  I'll see if I can find out how aftermarket kits are configured.
neo

[Guy 13]

Hi neobop.
Here is a revised and more complete wiring sketch of everything,
including the cartridge.
I am pretty sure that every wire is at the right place.
Have a look at my pictures and please comment.
Adding a ground wire going i the tube, that's a titanesk job, well for me.
Re-wiring the tube is also a big job, but might be easier ? ? ?

Guy 13






 

[Guy 13]

Forgot this hand sketch of the Rega Exact.




I don't know why, but the image won't download.
Therefore, here is the correct wiring of the cartridge.

Red = Right +
Green = Right -
White = Left +
Blue = Left -

Guy 13

[Grbluen]

I'm sorry for jumping in late, but the pictures that were shown of the broken tonearm wires also show some suspect soldering. In my opinion all of the solder connections look 'cold'. At least two of those 'joints' would be marginal at best. I think if your guy is any good with the soldering iron, your problem might just go away with the re-soldering.

[neobop]

I'm sorry for jumping in late, but the pictures that were shown of the broken tonearm wires also show some suspect soldering. In my opinion all of the solder connections look 'cold'. At least two of those 'joints' would be marginal at best. I think if your guy is any good with the soldering iron, your problem might just go away with the re-soldering.

Hi Don,
I think Guy just heated the joints removing the wires.  A couple look a little overheated, but that's not the problem.  The arm worked fine in the previous location.  Those joints will be redone anyway.
neo

[Guy 13]

Hi all.
I was thinking about something; it’s been turning in circles in my head for some time.
When I bought the turntable from the local Rega authorized dealer here in Ho Chi Minh City they told me that they had to import it and that someone will bring it as personal belonging.
When I got the table, I did what I do all the time, I went under the hood to see what’s under the hood and I was surprised to see that the motor had some kind of rust or oxidation on it’s housing, that was supposed to be a brand new table from the manufacturer.
I always had some doubt about that, I would not be surprised if this turntable was a Chinese copy ?
Anyway, I am stuck with it, I can’t spend many $ $ $ to buy another one and I cannot either spend mucho $ $ $ to replace something expensive or to afford expensive repairs.
I am still thinking on how I will add the ground wire and where I will connect it.
11 years ago I had a Limn LP12 with an Itok arm… I sold it for 500 USD am I kicking my ass today ?

Guy 13

[neobop]

Guy,
It's probably just a little older than advertised.  Do you think it would be worthwhile for them to copy the entire table?  It's a shame you sold the Linn, but all you can do now is move on.

Okay, that looks better.  Now, the question is, where does that black ground wire go to inside the arm, and is it still connected in there?  It should be connected to a ground inside the arm, if it wasn't pulled out.  If that black wire is disconnected inside, then you would have to make a ground connection on the aluminum part of the arm tube or pillar.  Lets assume (at least for now) that it's still connected inside.

Now, what you have to do is disconnect that bridge between the bottom ground connector for the black wire, and connector for the left channel ground (blue).  Don't worry about that brown strap.  It shouldn't matter.

Here are instructions for a complete DIY rewire job, including making a new ground connection inside the arm.  Hopefully, you won't need it:
http://www.vinylengine.com/hotwiredrega.pdf
neo

[Guy 13]

Hi neobop.
It's Sunday 10.30pm
and I am tired (Long vinyl cleaning day today)
and tomorrow I have to get up at 6am and go to work.
Therefore, I will re-read your post and see...

Guy 13

[Grbluen]

Hey Neo! 

[Guy 13]

Hi neobop.
This morning (Monday) I was to bring my Rega arm to the technician,
but I thought of something.
The black wire (Ground) will be soldered to the rubber plug with all the other cartridge wires,
but where will it exit from that plug ?
I think I will make a slot/groove along the plug and make another ground wire coming out
and then going to the ground lug of the Bellari phono stage.
I still have to check for the continuity of the black pig tail to the housing of the arm.
All that work and frustration because Mr. Rega did not do his homework.
Bad, bad, bad design.
Shame on you Rega.
Never again Rega.
You are on my black list Mr. rega.

Guy 13
I will be back with my findings, if I don't get run over by a 40 tons truck.

[Guy 13]

Hi neobop
and I am sure other as well followers of my misadventures.
I have checked with my ohm/meter to see if the tiny black ground wire
was really making ground/connection with the arm and... and...
Yes, thank God it is.
There is at least one good news in this storm of bad news/surprises.
Now, the tiny black ground wire that as to go out of the arm assembly, I will get some kind of slot, gutter so that it can come out, because everything is super tight.
Tomorrow I will explain up to three times to the Vietnamese technician
that will do the modifications and repair to make sure he does not screw up the whole thing.
I am very anxious to put this bad luck adventure behind me and start enjoying the 80+ vinyl that I have just cleaned with my Spin Clean machine.

Guy 13

You may ask why I did not go to see the Rega authorized dealer from who I bought the Rega turntable.
Well, I did go see them for something else
and they more or less with a zillion excuses that they were not interested in
after sales business and I did contact Rega UK directly,
they are even worst, they told me:
Do business with our authorized dealer in Vietnam,
that's why we have authorized dealers.



   

[neobop]

Now, the tiny black ground wire that as to go out of the arm assembly, I will get some kind of slot, gutter so that it can come out, because everything is super tight.

Guy,
The black wire was connected to the round junction at the bottom of the arm along with all the other wires.  On the other side of that junction your tonearm interconnect wires are soldered.  That junction is also strain relief.  It prevents the wires getting pulled out and disconnected inside.  I suggest using that connection and running a separate wire for ground, along with your interconnect.  The only thing you have to do in order to use it, is disconnect that bridge between the ground connection and the one next to it (left channel ground). 

You can run the black wire out some slot, but you'll have to secure it to the bottom of the arm so it doesn't get disconnected.  If that bridge on the connector can be severed, it will make a neater more secure job.
neo

[Guy 13]

Guy,
The black wire was connected to the round junction at the bottom of the arm along with all the other wires.  On the other side of that junction your tonearm interconnect wires are soldered.  That junction is also strain relief.  It prevents the wires getting pulled out and disconnected inside.  I suggest using that connection and running a separate wire for ground, along with your interconnect.  The only thing you have to do in order to use it, is disconnect that bridge between the ground connection and the one next to it (left channel ground). 

You can run the black wire out some slot, but you'll have to secure it to the bottom of the arm so it doesn't get disconnected.  If that bridge on the connector can be severed, it will make a neater more secure job.
neo

Hi neobop.
Thanks for your comments/advices.
The above is exactly what I wanted to do
and what I will do as soon as possible.
I have figured out everything, well, I hope I did.
Thanks again.

Guy 13

[Ericus Rex]

...and that black ground wire will go to the ground lug on your phono preamp.

[Quiet Earth]

I was looking at the Bellari phono schematic and it appears that there is no capacitor located at the RCA input jack. It seems to me like there should be a 220pF cap, or at the very least a 100pF cap to limit the bandwidth and to match the high frequency peak found on most MM cartridges. After you get your arm wiring sorted out you should add a 220pF capacitor to the L & R input jacks and see if that helps. Even if it does not cure the FM problem, the sound quality should improve as the typical MM resonant peak will not be as prominent. (Less sibilant sounds, and more controlled, natural sounding.)

If you don't want to solder a 220 pF cap at the input of each RCA jack (or across R1 and R18), you can solder the capacitors to a cheap RCA plug, and use a good RCA Y connector to attach the capacitor plugs in parallel with your tone arm RCA cable ends. (Similar to cartridge resistance loading, but in this case capacitance loading.)

Edit, having trouble loading the image. Trying again......


[/img]

[Quiet Earth]

Here is the schematic :

http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/63463243/23432455/egyeb/bellari_vp-129_sch.pdf_1.png


(Waiting for SRB to pop in and make it all better as he normally does.)

[neobop]

I was looking at the Bellari phono schematic and it appears that there is no capacitor located at the RCA input jack. It seems to me like there should be a 220pF cap, or at the very least a 100pF cap to limit the bandwidth and to match the high frequency peak found on most MM cartridges. After you get your arm wiring sorted out you should add a 220pF capacitor to the L & R input jacks and see if that helps. Even if it does not cure the FM problem, the sound quality should improve as the typical MM resonant peak will not be as prominent. (Less sibilant sounds, and more controlled, natural sounding.)

If you don't want to solder a 220 pF cap at the input of each RCA jack (or across R1 and R18), you can solder the capacitors to a cheap RCA plug, and use a good RCA Y connector to attach the capacitor plugs in parallel with your tone arm RCA cable ends. (Similar to cartridge resistance loading, but in this case capacitance loading.)

Hi Q E,
Soldering in 220pF caps is not a good idea.  Depending on the cart it could have the opposite affect as intended.  HO carts have inductance, and combined with shunt capacitance lowers electrical resonance.  Most carts have recommended capacitance load of 150 to 300pF.  That's total shunt capacitance including tonearm internal wire + interconnect.  When that recommended capacitance is exceeded, the cart usually gets brighter and extreme high end is rolled off.

Capacitance loading plugs should work, but with most arm wire/interconnect being 125 to 150pF, I'd think 100pF would be around the maximum.  With many carts no additional capacitance is needed.  50pF is a better idea IMO if adding caps internally.  It depends on the cart and interconnect. 
neo

[Quiet Earth]

Well, we have a radio station interference problem here and I think that all of the variables must be considered. The open loop gain of the first gain stage (tube) plus the open loop gain of the second gain stage (op amp) need to be bandwidth limited and electrically under control. Otherwise, if they are left wide open you are only asking for trouble. That is a fact that cannot be denied.

This is the primary reason why I brought it up, because there is an RF issue. We must look at the entire system - not just the antenna (the arm wires).

But beyond that I also believe the rule of limiting capacitance to 220 pF for a MM cartridge is more of an urban myth than a hard and fast truth. The modeling for that 220pF capacitance situation is theoretical and static. It does not represent what will actually happen when the cartridge is playing music into the load.  In other words, it's an approximation or a starting place. A base line.

Removing all of the capacitance that the cartridge sees will not get rid of its natural characteristic impedance, and it will not improve the high frequency performance as a whole. Sure, it might extend the bandwidth beyond 15kHz, but there will be a lot of fingernails-on-the-chalkboard pain and a lot of excess sibilance to pay for that effect.

For example, my own MM Cartridge sounds way better (i.e., more correct) when the load capacitance is set to 470pF, not 220pF. That is 470pF plus the high capacitance of the 1meter long litz cable connected to the end of the tone arm (which is also wired with high capacitance litz). So it is probably around 660pF total, give or take. If I set the load capacitance to 100pF or zero it sounds bright, shrill, and edgy as all get out (by comparison).

Anyway try. At least try to add some capacitance to the front end because you will never know until you hear it for yourself. You might tame a sibilant record (like every pop record ever made), and you might even get rid of a radio station. It's pretty cheap to make a few capacitance plugs and experiment for yourself.

Hope you get things sorted Guy. Sorry for the diversion.
 

[neobop]

If Guy still has a problem after rewiring, maybe some caps will help.  It could be a good suggestion. 

As far as urban myth - you couldn't be more wrong.  This has been documented, measured, many times.  Here is an article by Werner Ogiers EE about loading the M97.  The goal here is different, to brighten a dull cart.  But look what happens to response when recommended 250pF is changed to 370pF.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/load_the_magnets_e.html

neo

[Quiet Earth]

Hi Neo,

I respect your opinion and your experience too. How could I be "more wrong" by actually selecting the input capacitance value of my phono stage, and then listening to decide which sounds more correct? That is what I do at home in real time and real space. Listening is not a simulation. I choose the value of C that sounds best while I am playing the record, not what the math tells me to choose. In my case either 470 or 220 pF sounds the best, with 470 being the most often used. If I go by theory alone then I cannot stand to listen to most of my pop/rock collection.

Thanks for the link. I have read that article before (and many others) and I know what you are getting at. Those are nice simulations and calculations but they don't tell the whole story. Did you notice that they also play with the input resistance as well as the capacitance? Not that it matters ....... the proof is in the listening, not the simulations. The calculations are good for getting a general understanding of how the load might react, but they do not really represent what is actually happening while the cartridge is talking to the load, and the load talking back. You have to play the record to get that data. (You have to listen to it.)

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I know that I am way outnumbered on this topic, (which should be another thread anyway) and I can only speak for my own cartridge and system, and what I hear at home. 


But to recap, the main reason I brought up the capacitance is that I noticed there was none (zero) in the front end of the Bellari. I think there should be some, especially if you are picking up a radio station. Or perhaps if you hear way too much sibilance in those Paul Simon records. It's just one more thing to explore and you can decide for yourself if it helps or it hurts. I think experimenting is ok, isn't it? Sure it is.

Cheers everyone!