AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: rw@cn on 5 Jan 2014, 03:02 am

Title: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 5 Jan 2014, 03:02 am
Any one know what this is about?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: mr_bill on 5 Jan 2014, 03:05 am
How did u hear?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 5 Jan 2014, 03:19 am
Josh mentioned it on the PA, but he didn't share details (because Wendell didn't supply any). One can have the 3.7s upgraded to the 'i' version, so I doubt it has anything to do with the panels. I'd bet on something to do with the XO, but I do wonder what that might be. It's yet another mystery - we still don't know what's super about the Super MMGs (aside from the DWM).  :D
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 5 Jan 2014, 11:42 am
Perhaps more information will be forthcoming in a few days.
Just think, we'll all feel like BMW drivers with the "i" at the end.
I was born in Dusseldorf and that is why they call me Rolf!
 A little Mel Brooks humor for you...

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 5 Jan 2014, 01:53 pm
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/01/magnepan-model37-model37i.html#more

Its official
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 5 Jan 2014, 03:17 pm
You beat me to it!


Dear Press Member,

Announcing the 3.7i

An improved 3.7 may come as a surprise given that the 3.6 had a 12-year run. But, this is unusual in other ways.

The changes did not require retooling or significant cost increases. It did not warrant waiting for a major product change as a 3.8. So, we decided to pass it on now.

Yes, it is unusual, and it is the first time in Magnepan's history that a speaker can be upgraded at the factory at a reasonable cost (details to follow).

But, what is not unusual--- we don't hype new models. Yes, it sounds better, but we leave that to you to describe.

Wendell Diller
 Marketing Mgr.
Magnepan


I guess we'll find out more presently.
I didn't ask what he's doing at CES this week but I'm sure he's kind of busy at the moment.



Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 5 Jan 2014, 04:15 pm
Dusseldorf, eh? I went through Dusseldorf once - on the way to Amsterdam (the return trip took us through Belgium on the way to Paris). We lived in Pfersee and I worked at a military facility in Gablingen-Siedlung (the antenna array is still there). When the weather permitted, I rode my bicycle to/from work. Man, I wish I were still in that kind of physical shape. :lol: Our son was born there. My grandmother (father's mother) was from Stuttgart. I have fond memories of Germany - returned to the US in 1984.

Getting back to the mysterious upgrade, I hope details are made known. If nothing else, it would satisfy my curiosity. It would have to be special to warrant my packing up perfectly good 3.7s and sending them back to the factory. I'd miss them at least as much as I miss Germany. If it's something I could do at home, I'd rather do it myself. That would be a lot more expedient, not to mention far less costly.

I suppose the 'i' just means improved. Mine are already improved. :D
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 5 Jan 2014, 04:59 pm
The BMW reference made me think of Mel Brook's The Producers.  What a great movie.
I'll find out if a DIY is possible for people who can solder without setting the house on fire.
I just got done listening to the remastered Roxy album - you should buy this one even if your turntable is still in mothballs.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 5 Jan 2014, 05:17 pm
Well I had just received an offer to trade in my 1.7s for 3.7s and was seriously considering it. I think I'll wait and see.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 5 Jan 2014, 05:42 pm
If it's just a crossover component change, one has to wonder why that was not sorted initially when the model came out.
If that's the case maybe this update should be designated 3.7f(ixed) vice "i"??

Regardless, I'm sure there will be no meaningful objective information from Wendell regarding this change.

Cheers,

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 5 Jan 2014, 05:49 pm
What I can tell you is that you have to ship the speakers back - no DIY kit.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 6 Jan 2014, 01:26 am
I'm hoping that it's a bit more than a cross over.
I'll post the details when I get them.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: drummermitchell on 6 Jan 2014, 02:15 am
Could only imagine the cost of shipping from Canada or Europe.
Better be a major upgrade   as sending 3.7's in those boxes they'd better be insured for full price.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 6 Jan 2014, 03:52 pm
I'm hoping that it's a bit more than a cross over.
I'll post the details when I get them.

I suspect we will hear from them during CES. I can wait.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: TitaniumTroy on 10 Jan 2014, 02:57 am
Still waiting  :roll:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 10 Jan 2014, 04:45 am
Yeah, slackers! :whip:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 10 Jan 2014, 03:50 pm
So, if I ordered 3.7's today do you suppose I would get the 3.7i's?  :scratch:

Whadda ya think?

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: KKM on 10 Jan 2014, 04:07 pm
So, if I ordered 3.7's today do you suppose I would get the 3.7i's?  :scratch:

Whadda ya think?

Gene
If I were you, I would make sure it's the latest version, 3.7i, unless you are looking for the 3.7 and the dealer discount's it.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 10 Jan 2014, 04:18 pm
If I were you, I would make sure it's the latest version, 3.7i, unless you are looking for the 3.7 and the dealer discount's it.

Thanks. I guess my real question is, will the 3.7i become the only model of the 3.7 or maybe an option? Or does anyone really know yet?

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 10 Jan 2014, 04:22 pm
I would think it would be a running change to the model.
With any luck they used the 20.7 as the reference model against whatever it is they did.

Does anyone know yet?
Not as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 15 Jan 2014, 03:12 pm
I just thought of something:
it looks like the dealers are getting their 3.7i models in so if anyone is interested perhaps they could see if their local dealer has both a set of 3.7s and the 3.7i's in stock and could hear them side by side.
If you go this route, please report back.  It might help others decide if they wish to pursue the upgrade or not (no details of which are presently available).
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 15 Jan 2014, 03:51 pm
That's interesting. I wonder if the dealers can describe what's different about the 3.7i!!! :oops: :scratch: :green: :thumb:

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 15 Jan 2014, 04:20 pm
Perhaps one will chime in?
The one comment I heard was orchestras sounded smoother for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: mr_bill on 15 Jan 2014, 04:40 pm
A little added smoothness would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

I am using with an NAD M51 and Mark LEvinson 433 - both clear and very detailed and with the 3.7s the sound is almost too detailed/aggressive.  I have moved to tweeters out and not much toe in at all in order to help calm them down a bit.

Any suggestion are welcome!
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Hasse on 25 Jan 2014, 11:02 am
3.7 becomes 3.7i
In past model improvements, driver changes and factory retooling were extensive. It is rare when improvements can be made that are audible in a blind test and do not require a major investment. So, in view of this good fortune, we chose to pass on these small improvements rather than save them for a 3.8.

Will you be able to hear the difference between the 3.7 and 3.7i? Yes, in a careful A-B test, but we don't do sales hype. It is not a 3.8. And for those that have a 3.7, we have some good news.

For the first time in our history, we are able to upgrade your 3.7s at the factory for a modest $500. (That is what you have come to expect from Magnepan---good value.)

http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_37 (http://www.magnepan.com/model_MG_37)

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: jk@home on 25 Jan 2014, 01:58 pm
I wonder what the "turn around time" of the mod would be, and if Magnepan could do it on-demand with a walk in visit. So then instead of shipping the panels there, one could make a road trip and hand deliver them.

One of my other hobbies in RVing, and it common practice for some of those folks to drive (and tow) thousands of miles, just to get at the factory warranty work. I wouldn't do it ( due the cost of the diesel only), but others have no problem with the trip.

 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SwamisCat on 25 Jan 2014, 06:34 pm
It would be funny if the i designation amounts to something like "razoring" or some other tweeker mod.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 25 Jan 2014, 10:11 pm
Shipping costs will be the killer for most people.
Too bad they won't offer a DIY version or something that your "local" dealer could take care of.
Anyone here going to be our guinea pig?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Waker on 26 Jan 2014, 06:56 am
I have heard that the improvement that makes your 3.7 the 3.7i has to do with the frame and a change to its bracing. It was stated the difference can be heard via a side-by-side comparison, but without that, the difference may not be easily detected.  I use a pair of Mye Stands on my 3.6Rs, and I suspect adding those or an equivalent would do as much for your 3.7s as the factory upgrade.  So, it would appear you should not lose sleep over what your 3.7 is lacking.     
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: andyr on 26 Jan 2014, 10:38 am
Regardless, I'm sure there will be no meaningful objective information from Wendell regarding this change.

Cheers,

Dave.

Haha - I'd second that!  :icon_lol:

Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: andyr on 26 Jan 2014, 10:39 am
I have heard that the improvement that makes your 3.7 the 3.7i has to do with the frame and a change to its bracing.

What "bracing"?  (There is none on a stock Maggie!  :P )

Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 26 Jan 2014, 12:09 pm
Actually, NO information will be forthcoming other than what is on their web site.

You're being asked to blindly ship your speakers plus $500 for the Mystery Upgrade.
I did my best to find out what the customer's money would be spent on so that people would have a reason to do this and was stonewalled.

I understand the reviews will be glowing.






Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: drummermitchell on 26 Jan 2014, 02:15 pm
If WAKER is correct then it would be cheaper to keep your Mags at home and order the MYE stands.
No shipping costs or stress from Neanderthal couriers.
Would have to be a huge upgrade before I'd think about shipping mine from Canada.
I also have MYE stands :thumb:.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: sfdoddsy on 7 Feb 2014, 01:52 pm
I'm not sure what Magnepan hope to achieve with this veil of secrecy. There's the 'Super' MMG v regular, the 3.7i, the refusal to send speakers for review to places that will measure them, lack of any measurements on their site, etc etc etc.

It's redolent of snake oil and makes me far less inclined to buy their products (I've previously owned and enjoyed MMGs and 1.7s).
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SubieDriver on 7 Feb 2014, 03:13 pm
It's a shame they're being so secretive, but I understand at least one reason why: If they publish what they've done, they'll suddenly have competitors doing the same thing for cheaper.
Mye & Peter Gunn will probably take the info and incorporate it into their work, reducing the rebuild jobs Magnepan gets.  Not that they need the rebuild jobs to stay in business...
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 7 Feb 2014, 03:33 pm
When I ask the most basic of questions regarding new products I often think of Get Smart and their Cone of Secrecy - both Max and the Chief have it lowered over their heads and can't hear one another.
I would do things differently but it's not my company.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 7 Feb 2014, 03:37 pm
Here's just one of my theories of life!  :thumb:

It's a lot easier to raise someone else's kid than your own.

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rollo on 7 Feb 2014, 05:36 pm
  Perhaps the secrecy is a ploy to gain interest. Think about what the modders offer. A more rigid frame or stand. Now it appears Magnepan woke up or finally realized the biggest fault. I would think this should have been addressed years ago. Cost factor may have had some influence or Magnepan just wanted the mod companies to go away. No one but Magnepan will ever know that. Smoother sound ? The beauty of Maggies for me was their neutrality. Colored ? We will soon find out.
     Now saying all that over the years Magnepan has offered valuable upgrades to their line with great success. So trust in Magnepan has been proven. They will not release a revision unless proven by blind testing. Thanks for that. So if one trusts Magnepan then the revision is a plus.
    The secrecy has its merits just look at the thread. Got everyone talking about it. BRILLIANT !!


charles
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 7 Feb 2014, 06:50 pm

I see  a total of six 3.7s for sale on Audiogon. Wonder if this has anything to do with it.

Some may be opting to sell off their 3.7s for the new 3.7i figuring after shipping and the cost of the upgrade, they are going to be into it for about a thousand.

Look for a drop in 3.6 prices also.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Minn Mark on 7 Feb 2014, 07:10 pm
I appreciate the advancements but,.....I love my 3.6's.   Biwired, with original feet, tweets on inside, fed by solid state AVA electronics, spinning vinyl.

Happy listening !
 
Mark
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Elizabeth on 7 Feb 2014, 07:50 pm
Magnepan are a cult. So the veil of secrecy is great. Gives the cultists something to cult about,
LOL
Magnepan are to listen to, Either you like them or not. No other applications matter. No one needs to be 'convinced' by charts, measurements or whatever.
Take 'em or leave 'em. No problem.
They already sell all they can make. So what is the problem with that?
My ONLY beef is the drop in used prices with the intro if the 3.7 So many maggie owners jumped for the 3.7 that it crushed the used market for 3.6 etc..
Only so many Maggie crazies out there.... On the plus side the low used prices should get us a few more Magnepan converts...
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 7 Feb 2014, 09:39 pm
  Perhaps the secrecy is a ploy to gain interest.     
The secrecy has its merits just look at the thread. Got everyone talking about it. BRILLIANT !!
charles

But did it get everyone spending their money? 
I think the bunch of 3.7s up for sale is a dash to avoid the inevitable depreciation due to the mystery "i" revision. 
They may be switching brands, they may be going for the latest and the greatest, who can say.

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 8 Feb 2014, 04:54 am
I got to hear a pair of 3.7i's last saturday at Audio perfection here in Minneapolis with an Ayre VX-5 amp, Ayre CD player and an ARC LS 27 preamp and an Atma Sphere MP-3 preamp.  I loved the sound.  It was smooth and a little darker and warmer compared to the 1.7's that I compared them too.  I went there to listen to the preamps as I am going to sell my Pass labs X1 preamp and go back to tubes to pair with my Pass X250 amp and 1.6's maggies.

Any one want to buy a Pass X1 preamp for $2K?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: tgx78 on 8 Feb 2014, 05:11 am
Time for me to upgrade from 3.5R now  :D
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 8 Feb 2014, 05:35 am
Were you able to do a side by side with the earlier 3.7s? 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 8 Feb 2014, 06:42 am
Were you able to do a side by side with the earlier 3.7s?

No I wasn't.  But the 3.7i's were clearly darker and warmer sounding than the 1.7's with the same gear.  In fact,  I was very surprised at how dark and warm the ARC preamp was as they are supposed to be very neutral sounding.  I am sure that the Ayre gear contributed to much of the sound.  The ARC preamp was too dark with the 3.7i's and it sounded better with the 1.7's.  I have never heard a maggie sounding warm or dark before.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Hasse on 9 Feb 2014, 04:49 pm
I would think it would be a running change to the model.
With any luck they used the 20.7 as the reference model against whatever it is they did.

Does anyone know yet?
Not as far as I'm aware.
The upgrade is not needed for the 20.7 because it is already there. I spoke to a reliable source at the High-End Show in Stockholm yesterday. He said they have done something to the bass/mid panel and that it has nothing to do with the X-over. Results in better integration and a warmer, fuller midbass he sez  :thumb:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: berni on 9 Feb 2014, 06:15 pm
Push pull?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 9 Feb 2014, 07:02 pm
My dealer wasn't sure but he thought there was a capacitor upgrade in the 3.7i's.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 9 Feb 2014, 08:58 pm
Push pull would be well worth the money and would be a significant upgrade BUT the smidgen of information that was dispensed was that it did not require any retooling and it does not justify a new model designation. 

I suppose we'll have to wait for someone to buy a set of the new ones and pull the staples out and take a picture.


Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: k6davis on 11 Feb 2014, 09:01 am
I'll be ready to place my order to upgrade my 1.7's to 3.7i's in about a month, but by the time I get my pair, I hope we'll all know the details about what's changed.

I've only heard the 3.7, which was very impressive. Impressive enough that I started moving things around on the budget spreadsheet.  :)

A "warmer and darker" 3.7 would suit me even better!

Meanwhile, is there any new information?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 11 Feb 2014, 10:40 am
Nope.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 11 Feb 2014, 10:55 am
For sure, it cannot be very much done for $500. If they need to swap the bass/mid panel, what do they do with the old ones? Recycle the perforated sheet metal with the magnets? Will they stop producing the 3.7 (without the i)?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 11 Feb 2014, 09:50 pm
I'll tell ya what, whoever gets a set of the 3.7i's pull the staples, pop the socks off and take a few detailed pictures.
I'll do the same with my 3.7s and we'll penetrate the ridiculous Veil Of Super Secrecy and end the speculation once and for all.
Then people will be able to make an informed decision regarding this whole upgrade business.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: k6davis on 11 Feb 2014, 09:54 pm
I'm sad to say that I'll be of no help whatsoever.

When I get my pair, I'm not pulling any staples nor popping any socks!  :lol:

Of course, before long, we'll all know what the changes are....
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 11 Feb 2014, 10:24 pm
If someone else wishes to assist, the offer stands.
It's not too difficult to do and it would benefit quite a few people, I'm sure.
The information will have to come from the owners.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: teiki arii on 17 Feb 2014, 04:28 pm
Hello everybody,
since I live in France, I won't be able to get this update from 37 to 37i. I can't mail them because their email is not working. So I am very interested in improvement and photos about it.
Best regards.

My Magnepan 37 works with updated Threshold SA/6e but better with Cast Duelund 0.68 Ohm resistor on "medium attenuator" only. I tried to put on tweeter attenuator but It doesn't work properly in that configuration.. 8)
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 18 Feb 2014, 03:42 pm
If I remember, I'll call the gent at the Listening Room this Saturday and see what he has to say.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 18 Feb 2014, 04:54 pm
Why don't you give Magnepan a call and ask them yourself?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 18 Feb 2014, 05:19 pm
Why don't you give Magnepan a call and ask them yourself?

Sorry, my comment was directed to the silence about the 3.7i.  :duh: If the folks from Magnepan won't talk to anyone else, they probably won't talk to me.  :green:

I think that a dealer just might have both 3.7 models on the floor and would be able to comment. It is probably too soon to expect this, but a telephone call only takes a few minutes.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 18 Feb 2014, 05:23 pm
I live 20 minutes from the Magnepan factory and I have called them with questions before and have had no problems.  I even stopped by the factory and they were very accommodating.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: mr_bill on 18 Feb 2014, 07:18 pm
I heard the 3.7i speakers on Saturday. They sounded awesome at the dealer, but no way of comparing with 3.7.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 18 Feb 2014, 10:32 pm
Both Josh and I tried for the better part of a half hour with Wendell and you can file the entire conversation under F for Futile.
Perhaps someone else will have better luck in learning why anyone should pack up their speakers and ship them plus $500 to Magenpan for an upgrade.
What the heck are we actually paying for?  That's not an unreasonable request. 
If your car mechanic said give me your car and $500 for an upgrade you'd ask him what he planned on doing, wouldn't you?



Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 18 Feb 2014, 10:37 pm
Big news from my dealer.  He said that if your Magnepans are fairly new you probably already have the i in place.  He said basically they were tensioning the mylar tighter initially and about 6 months or so ago they stated producing them a little looser so that they sounded a little more natural with a little more umph in the bass.  They decided to mark them as i to differentiate them. So he said the upgrade is that they loosen the mylar slightly.  That's why they are not making a big deal out of it and why they haven't said much.  That's what the dealer said anyways.  He also said that he isn't planning to send any of his older ones in because they are played enough that the Mylar has loosened a little anyways with break-in.  Bottom line, enjoy your speakers. :)
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 18 Feb 2014, 10:52 pm
Wouldn't that be funny? 
It could very well be the case.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 18 Feb 2014, 10:54 pm
Wouldn't that be funny? 
It could very well be the case.


As far as I know or am concerned its the truth.  I am not concerned any longer about the i.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: zuluwarrior0760 on 19 Feb 2014, 01:25 am
This really wouldn't surprise me at all.

On the plus side of the ledger, Magnepans have given me more goosebump moments
than all the speakers I've had before combined.  I really don't see ever owning another
brand.....

having said that, the company is NOT without issue:

1.  They pack their speakers like lightbulbs.  The reports of damage are legendary!
Their frugality should enable them to sell 3.7s for 5800 instead of 5600 and ship
them in crates the way these speakers deserve to be shipped since in this day and
age a person's city of residence and the city of their dealer are rarely the same.....
It's for this reason that i would NEVER EVER!!! send a pair back to the factory
for an upgrade, even if the upgrade made fire shoot out of my ears, it was soooo
stupendous.....

2.  Magnepan's dealer network is largely useless.  There......I said it.......
Their dealers are useless because the margins on Maggies are half what they
get on other brands and most carry the brand as a kind of cachet, but are less
than helpful when it comes to service both before and after the sale......
Some are better than others, but since most people are getting a box delivered
to their local shipping depot rather than a dealer at their door, I would say
Magnepan needs to expand their DIRECT sale policy to their entire line
including 20.7s and invest the savings in a nice call center where a fellow audiophile
will be happy to take your query and help you aim your tweeter directly into
your earlobe.......via lasers and mirrors....

3.  Wendell Diller needs to cut out the damn cloak and dagger crap that
he as the marketing guru for the brand is known for...........If you're going to advertise
an upgrade, then tell people what it consists of and let them make the decision......

The only reason not to is likely because it really is an upgrade simply to correct
mylar that is stretched too taut.......

$500 plus shipping???????  No thanks, I'll take break-in instead.....

or better yet, mine are only a few months old (my second pair after UPS
turned my first into an origami project) So I probably got an I at no charge.......
Maybe magnepan will send me some metal badging, so I can put it on the front
so my audiophile friends will bow to me!!!!



Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 19 Feb 2014, 01:43 am
UPS could break an anvil!
What did they do to your speakers? 
The big danger is dropping them from a height as they go WHUMP! and that will trash the foil.
When the 1.7s came out there as a lot of people complaining about the sound and I think they were listening to speakers with shipping damage.  I know I found a broken packing strap in my driveway when mine were delivered - the driver had it pop in two when he was carrying them to the door but luckily, no damage.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: zuluwarrior0760 on 19 Feb 2014, 03:04 am
my original dealer, where I heard them after RMAF 10 was Cherry Creek Audio.
I thought about buying them at my closest dealer and picking them up, but
their audio snobbery overwhelmed me, now I wished I had overlooked it......
I can talk about them now because they're out of business (shocker!)

Here's what UPS did to mine, but they were only half the equation...
http://stewart0722.smugmug.com/Other/magnepan-damage-photos/28768937_xBj954#!i=2442212261&k=F2HdRV9

...the dealer stated they came on a pallet, but the dealer took them off the pallet, so he
could ship it by UPS, instead of freight......come to find out, freight would have
cost me only 47.00 more!!!

I contacted Wendell and he confirmed the dealer should have never removed them from the pallet
and that Magnepan NEVER recommends shipping by UPS......(now ya tell me).  The dealer
accused me of throwing them under the bus and refused to refund my original shipping
even though UPS paid him a partial, but almost total claim....including refunding shipping....

Magnepan refused per Wendell to drop ship replacements to me even though they knew
well what had happened to me..........so what I did was have a shipping co. pick them up
at the dealer on the pallet and then build a coffin for them with foam in top/bottom/sides etc
and then ship them freight for me which cost me about 400.00 instead of the 200.00 I originally
paid, but I felt that was how Magnepan should ship them in the first place, both to decrease
risk of damage and increase future value due to suitability for reshipment.....I'd certainly
pay a 200.00 premium, AND I DID......

one thing I did find out is that aluminum trim models are mdf under the trim whereas wood
models are oak etc through and through.......so for durability, I'd say go with wood.......which
is what I requested on the replacement pair......

Again, the replacements arrived perfect and I could not be happier with the sound......the
really are mind blowingly good..........just wish they didn't come with Magnepan's stodgy stance
on so many things........

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: mrlittlejeans on 19 Feb 2014, 03:08 am
The secrecy on the upgrade is ridiculous.  Not sending any out for review because they're worried about trade secrets or whatever is also ridiculous.  I wonder why the change in philosophy.  It's not like anyone that wanted to reverse engineer these things couldn't buy a pair and play all day.  What would they learn from a stereophile review that would allow them to design a better product that they couldn't learn by buying a pair and opening it up?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that the 3.7's don't measure as well or have something else funny going on that they didn't want Stereophile to write about.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 19 Feb 2014, 08:07 am
Big news from my dealer.  He said that if your Magnepans are fairly new you probably already have the i in place.  He said basically they were tensioning the mylar tighter initially and about 6 months or so ago they stated producing them a little looser so that they sounded a little more natural with a little more umph in the bass.  They decided to mark them as i to differentiate them. So he said the upgrade is that they loosen the mylar slightly.  That's why they are not making a big deal out of it and why they haven't said much.  That's what the dealer said anyways.  He also said that he isn't planning to send any of his older ones in because they are played enough that the Mylar has loosened a little anyways with break-in.  Bottom line, enjoy your speakers. :)

How can they loosen the Mylar without doing a complete stripping of it? The Mylar is glued on all sides.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: helpme on 19 Feb 2014, 03:03 pm
Big news from my dealer.  He said that if your Magnepans are fairly new you probably already have the i in place.  He said basically they were tensioning the mylar tighter initially and about 6 months or so ago they stated producing them a little looser so that they sounded a little more natural with a little more umph in the bass.  They decided to mark them as i to differentiate them. So he said the upgrade is that they loosen the mylar slightly.  That's why they are not making a big deal out of it and why they haven't said much.  That's what the dealer said anyways.  He also said that he isn't planning to send any of his older ones in because they are played enough that the Mylar has loosened a little anyways with break-in.  Bottom line, enjoy your speakers. :)

So, if this is true, the next big question for those of us who purchased recently is: When exactly did they start shipping modified 3.7s without "i" designation.
Serial numbers please!!!
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 19 Feb 2014, 03:15 pm
I live 20 minutes from the Magnepan factory and I have called them with questions before and have had no problems.  I even stopped by the factory and they were very accommodating.

Did you ask them about the 3.7i?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 19 Feb 2014, 03:24 pm
How can they loosen the Mylar without doing a complete stripping of it? The Mylar is glued on all sides.

I guess that's why there's a $500 charge. :)

I wonder if they will post the serial number of the first factory shipped 3.7 with this modification.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: AdvoCat on 19 Feb 2014, 05:09 pm
I have agreed to buy  3.7s at private sale and am considering having them shipped directly to the factory for retrofitting to the i.  First, is it worth it?  Second (and regardless of your response to the first question), what shipper do I use and what special instructions do I provide?  I am a newbie at this, but have lucked out in buying 1.7s and having them shipped.  Magnepan hasn't gotten back with me yet with a recommendation.

Thanks for any ideas or recommendations you might have.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Bill of NY on 19 Feb 2014, 05:23 pm
the mylar losen thing is kinda weird wouldent you get more flap earlier if that were true?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 19 Feb 2014, 06:30 pm
I would assume that they are not loosening the Mylar by such a large degree to cause any major issues, just to slightly change the tone. 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: berni on 19 Feb 2014, 08:34 pm
After the wires are glued on the mylar , loosening seems stupid!
The glued wires are holding some kind of the tension.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: jhm731 on 19 Feb 2014, 09:12 pm
Maybe they've rearranged the damping pads:

(http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/pics/magnepan_tc_system_3.jpg)
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 19 Feb 2014, 10:26 pm
According to Mr. Diller, that information about mylar loosening is incorrect and the dealers know as much as everyone else as they're taking this secret to their graves and it's all done on a need to know basis in the middle of the night, burn instructions before reading, all parties involved are being kept chained in the basement and it's probably a waste of time for them to think too much about spending their pensions if you know what I mean  (or words to that effect).
Is it worth doing?  I certainly wouldn't give anyone $500 for a mystery upgrade that will supposedly make my speakers smoother sounding or what have you. 

I'd use FedEx but any carrier can destroy anything at any given time.

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 19 Feb 2014, 10:39 pm
I read a random persons post on audio asylum as well that he supposedly received an email from Windell saying it was not true.  All I know is I agree with you that I know Magnepan and the freight company will happily take your money for possibly nothing.  I can say the dealer felt confident in what he was saying so I have no reason to disbelieve him until magnepan decides to actually tell us first hand.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 19 Feb 2014, 11:23 pm
The whole thing is just to get free exposure on the internet.
Much ado about nothing, as they say.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: munosmario on 20 Feb 2014, 02:24 am
Both Josh and I tried for the better part of a half hour with Wendell and you can file the entire conversation under F for Futile.
Perhaps someone else will have better luck in learning why anyone should pack up their speakers and ship them plus $500 to Magenpan for an upgrade.
What the heck are we actually paying for?  That's not an unreasonable request. 
If your car mechanic said give me your car and $500 for an upgrade you'd ask him what he planned on doing, wouldn't you?

Steve, as you can see below, those excerpts from Harry Pearson's April 2011 review of the 3.7, in the Absolute Sound, show that the shroud of mystery regarding technical specifics of the 3.7 is an old stand of Magnepan/Diller. So, no surprise now that Magnepan/Diller continue the same policy. More important, despite his mighty status in the hi-end industry and his long standing relationship with Diller, HP was not spared the mystery treatment and had to patiently accept it. Consequently, however frustrating, no one should be surprised or take it personally if any inquiries regarding technical aspects of the upgrade turn out to be futile.

The excerpts follow:

Quote>

....It [the 3.7] sounds unlike any of its ancestors. It is the culmination of Winey’s art. The technological ins and outs, and their workings, are things the company is trying to keep as secret as Iran its atomic research programs. (See the sidebar.) Maybe they fear being reverse-engineered. No surprise there.
________
Sidebar

Later on, in an e-mail, I got Diller to expand (somewhat) on the mysteries of the 3.7s.

“The drivers are purely resistive since they are like a straight wire. The crossovers are first-order which provides a gentle phase angle…” And the crossover to the tweeter “is very close to the same point.”

As for the quasi-ribbon:
“The tweeter is a true ribbon. However, I am aware that these definitions have been a subject of debate. Our short version is—any deviation from a foil (usually aluminum) suspended in magnetic gap is a ‘quasi-ribbon.’ And there have been a lot of creative variations of the true ribbon.”

And, to wit:
“As I said earlier, the Tympani IVa bass is the Gold Standard we set as a goal and that is what we went after. The midbass is much fuller than the 3.6 which gives the subjective impression that the 3.7 is much more efficient. However, we are not making any claims for increased efficiency….The low frequency ‘achievable’ is the same as the 3.6, but, due to much better midbass ‘slam’ everyone is saying it goes deeper.”

And, to wit, a last thought: from HP:
“When pressed for a more definitive technical explanation, Diller can still be frustratingly vague, at times, no change there. (Remember, I have known him since near TAS’s beginning days). So, what's the big secret? Iranians aside. Maybe, from a marketing perspective, he thinks the review might be more interesting if he keeps me in the dark.”

Mario



 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 20 Feb 2014, 02:39 am
Yes, I recall. 
The workings of the audio industry borders on the surreal at times.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 20 Feb 2014, 02:43 am
The whole thing is just to get free exposure on the internet.
Much ado about nothing, as they say.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: jhm731 on 20 Feb 2014, 03:36 am
Is Wendell related to Phyllis Diller?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 20 Feb 2014, 04:19 am
What a pathetic way to handle a product recall.  They won't tell you what the problem is, and oh by the way, YOU get charged for their production mistake.
That's rich!

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: zuluwarrior0760 on 20 Feb 2014, 04:25 am
The customers are Billy in the Doritos finger cleaner commercial
and Wendell is the old guy who sez:

"You ask too many questions Billy".......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugo7Y2lRsxc

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rhoni on 20 Feb 2014, 05:58 am
The 3.7 has been in production for more than 2+ years.  You would think that stereophile could have borrow a pair from a private party for their review and measurements.  No need to get it from Magnepan. 

Has anyone posted private measurements of the 3.7 ?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 20 Feb 2014, 04:12 pm
I sure hope Wendell is reading this thread. It's obvious his failing company needs a lot of help and there are a whole bunch of experts here that just know they can run it much better than he can.  :thumb:

Hilarious.  :green:

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rollo on 20 Feb 2014, 04:54 pm
    Remember the customer is always right. The best consumer is an educated consumer. All the customer wants is info. Give it to them. Does not have to be specific. A hint like " we reworked fastening system " or something similar.
    Maggie owners are willing to bite but bite what ? Something to chew on is all they are asking. The other side is that Maggie does not release a revision until it is blind tested by their staff. If one trusts Magnepans reputation it should be a non issue.
    The real question is does the total cost of such [ shipping ] worth the money ? Bang for the buck. Mye stands or upgrade ? Hmmmmm.




charles
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: AdvoCat on 20 Feb 2014, 05:20 pm
The comments in this thread have discouraged me from upgrading, or from having them shipped.  I'll just get them myself and wait for more information before making the leap to the 3.7i.  Frustrating, but it would be at least a $1200 investment (with shipping) to do it.  That really devalues the base model, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 20 Feb 2014, 09:14 pm
I sure hope Wendell is reading this thread. It's obvious his failing company needs a lot of help and there are a whole bunch of experts here that just know they can run it much better than he can.  :thumb:

Hilarious.  :green:

Gene

I assume you're being facetious.  If not, it's silly commentary because that's obviously not what the posters here are saying.
It's certainly a legitimate question what a customer spending $500 and risking the shipment of his speakers is getting for said expenditure.  Zero information from Magnepan regarding this "i"improvement is unacceptable.

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 20 Feb 2014, 10:01 pm
I had some measurements on my old PC which met an untimely demise.
Basically, it was flatter frequency response in the low end and the foil smoothed out the sound compared to the old wires (if I put that in a way that makes sense).
I'm sure a review in TAS is forthcoming on this little upgrade but I wouldn't expect anything more than general subjective comments.

Yes, the resale value has taken a real hit over something which, I suspect, doesn't amount to very much at all and the customer could do themselves if they can manage to solder without setting the house on fire.

I like Wendell and I like Magnepan speakers but every one here has raised valid points.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rhoni on 21 Feb 2014, 07:09 am
500 + shipping and not knowing what your're getting other than a receipt that says you have a 3.7i makes no sense.  If you are selling an upgrade, state the upgrade and present your sale pitch.  The customer will make an informed decision.

My impression of the 3.7 is there is a better blending of the drivers but i think the 3.6 has better bass.  This is from memories of many auditions of the 3.6 and finally my purchased of the 3.7.

I will take better driver blending over better bass.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Waker on 21 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm
For those who have the 3.7s, I hope you are not too bothered by not having the upgrade.  For the cost, it cannot be that major. By the time the factory takes your speakers off the truck, unpacks them, does the upgrade, repacks them, perhaps in new cartons depending on shipping damage, and resend them, $500 for time, labor and materials does not go that far.  Until you do know what the upgrade is, a few bolt-on mods will probably provide a sense of satisfaction.  The Mye Stands or an equivalent, Cardas jumpers, etc, and, controversial as they are, some after-market fuses will all add up to noticeable improvements.  The Furutech fuses provided more resolution to my 3.6Rs, no doubting that--in my experience, in my system, but I did double the ratings for both for a larger filament in each.  Not to open any discussion on that, just to say there are some tweaks to be done for about the same cost until the upgrade is disclosed. I would not ship mine, anyway--not for any reason, even for sale.  Nothing is handled with care. 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 22 Feb 2014, 02:23 am
Dave, I think it's unfair to classify the mysterious upgrade as a product recall. Mine have not been upgraded (to the factory 'i' version) and I certainly wouldn't consider them broken in any way. I'm very happy with them. So pleased am I that I have no interest in packing them up and sending them to the factory for elective surgery. Besides, I've done a little elective surgery of my own – part of the fun.

I find myself in unusual territory because I have always spoken in defense of Magnepan's business philosophy and of the company's right to maintain secrecy about technical details. This is different and I feel differently about this situation. Unless this upgrade involves a 'deep' technology, I see no reason why it should be such a closely guarded secret. If one has his 3.7s upgraded, must he enter into a 'hush contract' with Magnepan (I promise not to peek and never to divulge what I didn't see ;-))?

Various things in my life drove me to invest in a mancave and some bigger Magnepans. I was, after all (and still am) in love with my MMGs (and it has also been a blast tinkering with them). One audition of the 3.6s and I was sold – what a stunning tweeter! I decided to go for the 3-series instead of the 1.7s, but I wondered when the 3.6 was going to be updated in the same way. The word from Magnepan (Leland asked Wendell) was that it wasn't happening anytime soon, so I purchased a pair of 3.6s. A few months later, the 3.7s debuted. Even though that secret cost me around $2k (when I traded up), I defend Magnepan's right to have kept it. This, however, is different.

When each of the .7s was introduced, we knew something significant about the changes. We knew wires had given way to foil and we knew the crossovers had been simplified as well as built with boutique quality parts (such is the claim. anyway). These are significant changes and they were anything but secrets. I suspect there were numerous tweaks to the 'black art' aspects of their design, and I support Magnepan's right to protect that information. I see it as justified and proper. This, I reiterate (again), is different.

I'm not pissed off or anything, but I do not understand why this must be such a covert operation. For crying out loud, at least tell us what the hell it addresses. We aren't asking for every detail, but only some general information. I suppose this is the ultimate test of faith. My inclinations run in a different direction. Without any information to guide my decision, I'm not disposed to interest. Thanks, but I'll pass. For all I know, the enhancement involves something that I've already addressed (one way or another). 

I may not think of it as a product recall, but I agree to the pathetic (I'd say deplorable) way this upgrade is being executed. To be blunt and honest, I'm a little bit offended. Oh well, I still dig their speakers and I'd hesitate to call whatever the upgrade 'fixes' a production mistake. I suspect the product was considered finished and polished when it was introduced, but there is more than a kernel of truth to the assertion that Magnepan actually does tinker with their products. I'd guess that they 'stumbled into something' that is beneficial and decided to put it into production with the current speaker. Perhaps, the upgrade cost is an acceptable loss for the company - it's possible. Since we know nothing, well, we just don't know.  :scratch:

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 22 Feb 2014, 04:32 am
Kevin,

I understand your point, but without any information from Magnepan regarding this "improvement" what the heck are owners supposed to think?  Understandably, dealers get queries and start spreading possibly incorrect information and we're left with multiple rumors, one of which describes the panels as not tensioned correctly.  But heck, maybe it's some other explanation and this really is some sort of valid improvement to the design?  The whole thing is just puzzling as hell and a fantastic example of a company not treating its customers well.  I thought Magnepan was above the kind of silliness employed by so many other companies operating in "high-end" audio.

As you know, I don't own 3.7's, but if I did there's no way in hell I'd consider shelling out the moola and sending my speakers to Magnepan without getting a damn good explanation of what the heck they're doing.  I suppose I'm in the minority here since I have much more technical interest in these type of things than most users.

Maybe "recall" is the wrong word, but what the heck is the right word?  :)

Cheers,

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 22 Feb 2014, 05:16 am
I'm not very technically inclined but I won't pay for something based on blind faith and I'm surprised that any company would ask their customers to do so.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: berni on 22 Feb 2014, 11:19 am
I think this odd decision to announce a upgrade is going backwards for Magnepan.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 22 Feb 2014, 01:02 pm
I think this odd decision to announce a upgrade is going backwards for Magnepan.

I think that this odd decision to keep this veil over whats in this upgrade is going to backfire on Magnepan and they may now be too embarrassed to actually reveal whats in it for fear of a chorus of "that's it? That's the big deal?" from their customers.

What may have turned out to be a bit of teasing fun may result with egg on their face.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 22 Feb 2014, 03:20 pm
Dave, I think 'upgrade' is a perfectly applicable term. Of course, that's making an assumption since we are clueless what the 'upgrade' is. That, and that alone, is what's annoying about this whole thing. I'm pleased to read that I'm not alone is treating it with disinterest because of the secrecy. I think many, if not most, of us who frequent forums such as this are interested in the technical details. I don't and won't forfeit money for an unknown.

Berni, I think your comment is curious. Over the years, I've read posts clamoring for Magnepan to be more proactive about their products and now that Magnepan is giving the consumers what they said they wanted (How about a factory upgrade?), the forum chatter is railing against it. The problem, as I see it, hinges completely on the secrecy.

I think this thread (and all others on this topic) illustrates what is dangerous about keeping such secrets. Speculation about what the upgrade entails is running wild (yes, I'm guilty too). I wouldn't object to Magnepan's guarding the fine details if they are part of the 'black art' of the design, but to give absolutely no information whatsoever (beyond the cost) is simply unacceptable. Frankly, I'm insulted.

Emil, the veil of silence has already backfired - just look at this thread. The folks in White Bear Lake may have a bit of egg on their faces, but the more disconcerting (I hope) matter for them is the attitude the furtive nature of this upgrade is instilling in us. As an owner of 3.7s, I feel somewhat disrespected by the manufacturer. Such feelings are not generally associated with repeat business. I wouldn't be surprised if it drove more than one owner to become a former owner - the ultimate backfire.
 
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Waker on 22 Feb 2014, 07:31 pm
 Ok, enough--I call for a black op in White Bear.  We form a tour group, people off the grid, go in deep cover, infiltrate sensitive areas, gather intel, text it out to be sure--some frozen gulags rumored to be up there.   :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 22 Feb 2014, 07:44 pm
You'd be wasting your time, the location of the factory is a secret.
Their mailing address is actually an old biker bar which has since become a woman's clothing consignment shop.
I understand that they're actually located in an abandoned underground cold war era ICBM silo somewhere in Wyoming.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: k6davis on 22 Feb 2014, 08:34 pm
As a long time Maggie fan, I've been following this thread with interest, mostly because I'm waiting for someone to have a link or some info about the upgrade. I have gone from SMGc to 1.6 to 1.7 and I'm looking to upgrade to the 3.7.. well now the 3.7i.

At first, I thought the reaction of you 3.7 owners was over the top, but when I put myself in your shoes, I'd be upset too.

I think Magnepan's biggest mistake is not that they haven't revealed what they've changed. I think it's reasonable for them to keep their trade secrets, secret. But I think that they should have arranged to launch the 3.7i properly. They should have arranged for at least two respected reviewers to compare the 3.7 to the 3.7i and subjectively describe how much and what kind of improvement there is. That's what I have been waiting for and I'm really surprised that there's been no evaluation of the speaker yet.

My local dealer has said that Magnepan has had a rush of orders for the new model, but he'll be getting a pair in the store soon. I'll head over there and take a listen. Hopefully, they will have the 3.7 on hand at the same time.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 22 Feb 2014, 09:49 pm
I think it's reasonable for them to keep their trade secrets, secret.

I am in agreement with this. However, information could be forthcoming without giving away trade secrets, unless this upgrade is in the realm of the 'black art' of the design. Even if that were the case, simply stating that something in particular is being altered doesn't reveal how. At the very most, such a comment would only serve to illuminate the importance of that aspect of the design. I'm finding it impossible to support the complete lack of information. Most consumers like to have an idea what they are getting when they fork over their hard-earned cash. Somehow, 'it sounds better' doesn't cut it, even though 'so and so says it sounds better' is often the impetus for selecting one piece of gear over another. :lol:

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: helpme on 22 Feb 2014, 11:17 pm
Here's a thought.
Perhaps Magnepan doesn't want us sending them our 3.7s for upgrade?
Perhaps they needed the announcement of an upgrade to promote selling the new 3.7i?
Perhaps they are busy building new ones and didn't really want the hassle of time wasted, shipping issues, damage control, Etc. Etc.?
Perhaps this has worked quite well for them? Oh wait, perhaps I should remove the "perhaps" from this line.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 23 Feb 2014, 12:21 am
They knew there would be a bit of an uproar from the 3.7 owners.
Free publicity prior to the magazine review, I suppose.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Waker on 23 Feb 2014, 07:07 am
     
    "Their mailing address is actually an old biker bar, which has since become a woman's clothing consignment shop."

  I just couldn't shake it off, so I made a run up to White Bear Lake to do some nosing around on my own. Pulling up to
  the plant, I almost steered into a ditch.  It was all gone--disappeared--only a field of snow where it stood.  I stared in
  disbelief for what seemed like an eternity when movement off to the side brought me around--an old guy was walking
  along the snowbank across the road.  Stumbling out of my car, I asked, "What happened to the factory that was here?"
  Glancing around nervously, he kept walking, saying, "Better check in town."
  "What's that supposed to mean," I yelled, but he didn't look back.  Approaching the city limits, I thought, why the f***
  would he say something like that?  Turning on to Main Street, I didn't know what to expect, but what I saw surprised me
  even more than that empty field.  White Bear Lake was from a bygone era--it was an eerie setting, a place left behind.       
  There were a few throwback taverns, some strip joints, a ramshackle bait shop/gas station, a brick-front hotel called 'The Lakeside',  long since turned flophouse, a wood shanty drive-in, some storefronts crowded together between two stop lights.  Idling slowly along, I was appalled at how seedy it all was--this was no tourist town.  I pulled in at an angle in front of some old shops. Above a dusty window display, a sign read, 'Second Time Around'.  A faceless mannequin wore a blue dress--it was a used apparel shop, alright.  On a hunch, I walked up to the door--the sign said 'We Are Open'.  Once inside, I could see a counter in the back. I browsed my way through crowded racks, toward the rear slowly, until a young woman appeared from a back room.  She was gorgeous, a slim blond in tight jeans and a red blouse.  As I stared at her plunging neckline, she laughed. With a sly look, she smiled and said, "You look a bit lost--my name is Maggie--can I help you?"
Embarrassed and trying to gather myself, I stammered, "Yes, I think so--I'm not sure what I'm looking for, a dress perhaps--something for my wife, but I'm not sure what size she is--do you do modifications?"
Laughing again, she said, "Do you mean alterations? Yes--we can tailor a dress--can you describe her?" Stalling, I tried to think of something--then it hit me.  Taken aback, I said, "Excuse me, what did you say your name was?"  As she slowly smiled again, I heard racks of clothes rustling behind me. Before I could turn, I was down on the floor. In a daze, I could feel my hands being bound with what felt like bra straps. Panties--some kind of lingerie--was pulled down over my face.  Before I could yell, something was stuffed into my mouth to gag me. I felt myself being dragged across the floor--then everything went black.                             
 
I came around to the sound of several men talking in low voices.  I was able to push a wad of cloth out of my mouth that reeked of chloroform or whatever it was that put my lights out.  The acoustics told me I was now in a cavernous space--like a hanger or warehouse.  Careful not to move, I listened closely for anything being said.  So far, I had counted three voices.     
"Whaddaya mean he was on the plant road? What the hell happened to the barricades?"
  "I dunno, Wendy--like I said, the old man was out on his daily walk--you know how he misses the place--he did what he could--told this dope to come into town."
   "Ok, Stevey, we gotta come up with something--any ideas,  Marko?"
   "It's too early to let anything out about the move--we gotta put this guy on ice--any ID on him?"
Hearing that, I gasped for air--I was done for.
    "Hey shut up--he must be awake."
They all walked over to me lying there--I felt a hand on my head--the underwear came off, and I was looking up at three faces.  We were in a warehouse--I could see tall stacks of thin cartons in the dim light.
    The one I figured for Wendy said, "Who are ya, and why the snooping around?"
"Just call me Waker", I said.
    "Ha, that figures. I told you he was one of them", Marko said.
"Yeah, I'm from the Planar Circle--just came up looking for some answers on the 3.7 upgrade", I said.  "Have you been reading our thread?"  They all laughed uproariously at that. 
With a grim look, Stevey looked at me, "Look, Waker--you stuck your nose where it don't belong--now you're a problem."
Imagining my fate, I said, "If I'm going to end up in a dumpster, at least tell me--what happened to the factory?"
Looking from one to the other, Wendy nodded, turned to me, and said, "We pulled up stakes, kid--you weren't supposed to see that. The plant is in China now."
Stunned, I said, "Oh, come on--someone on the Circle would have known that."
Again they all laughed.  Marko chimed in, "That Planar site is a front, an industry plant--put there because it's good for business.  Hell, all the regulars on there are us and some guys from the plant.  We do it to keep the interest up."
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. "Well, what about Steve Ford, the guy who runs the thing? You can't tell me he's a fake."
"Oh, that stooge?", said Wendy, "We let him think he's running something.  He goes on about this and that, and we reply as if we're interested--it's all astroturfed to keep up the threads.  The rest on there are like you--customers to buy our products."
 I was reeling--spinning--trying to make some sense out of this madness.  "Ok, Ok", I said, "Then at least tell me this--what is the 3.7i upgrade? You owe us that much."
Now Marko said, "Listen, there is no upgrade.  The "i" stands for imported--you're all getting 3.7s made in China, now." 
I shot back, "Oh, BS--then why is everyone sending back their 3.7s? What's the point?"
Wendy sighed, looked around, then said, "It's like this---we take back all the early 7's, made in America, and ship 'em back the imports, made over there for half the cost.  No one can hear the difference. Then, we sell the units that were made here to rich Chinese for five times the cost--they love anything made here and won't touch one made over there--it's a status thing with them, and they know their knockoffs.  We're making a killing--see, I intend to retire rich."
Mad now, I yelled, "What are you going to do with me--let's get it over with.  By the way--when were you going to announce the move? It's bound to come out soon."
"Yeah", said Marko, "But not yet--look, I got a plan for you. We aren't into bad endings, so we're gonna give you a job--you'll have to relocate, though."
"Oh, what's that going to be? Working in your dress shop?", I moaned.
"Well, let's just say you're gonna be pretty good with chopsticks in a few months. Sorry, kid, but you're getting on a slow boat to China.  You'll be on the factory floor, walking around, smiling--keep up the good work, you know? They're gonna love you, and I won't have to keep going over there."
I was in a daze, couldn't get any words out, tried to get up and run--stood still--slow motion--struggled--yelling--I was swimming, thrashing, looked around--suddenly, I was on my couch, could hear sweet music--there, from my Maggies--it was all a dream. I sat up--remembered I had just been reading on Audio Circle, had then decided to order some 3.7i's--must have drifted off………..


           The above is purely a work of fiction and is in no way meant to disparage real persons or to represent actual events.  My thanks to Steve Ford and the fine folks in White Bear Lake, MN, who make the speakers we all love to listen to.
 
   




     
 

 



                                                                       
     
   
   
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 23 Feb 2014, 09:22 am
That was great!
You have now entered the Magnepan Zone...
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Tuck on 24 Feb 2014, 11:58 pm
I don't know if this will make anyone feel any better or not.   I looked into ordering some last Saturday and was told that there is a price increase for the 3.7I       They now list for $5,995.00 which is essentially a $500.00 increase depending on finishes.   The store didn't have any to listen to and could not tell me how long for delivery.     They were supposed to check on that today and call me.   That has not happened.    I was ready to place my money down, but with surprise increase and stores lack of being able to tell me what I would be getting for that increase I have held off.    I admit the 3.7's are pretty darn sweet and it was a stretch for me to even consider those.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rhoni on 25 Feb 2014, 07:06 am
Ok so the real reason for 3.7i designation is so magnepan can raise the price.  I wonder if the 20.7 is going up as well?

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: berni on 25 Feb 2014, 08:28 am
I am just tempted to try the Speltz autoformer on my OTL Graaf gm200 to see if they bring any noticeble improvement.(less power needed-longer tube life, less distortion, better low end?...)
Maybe anbody knows more?

What if MAGNEPAN would inbuild a similar device into the 3.7 to raise the impendance? :?
Ok it is not in their manner, but?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Tuck on 25 Feb 2014, 04:51 pm
Ok so the real reason for 3.7i designation is so magnepan can raise the price.  I wonder if the 20.7 is going up as well?

I hate to be cynical, but that may very well be the case.   The speakers get the highest praises from many different sources and to be honest I think worth the praise.  However, before anyone actually starts to send their 3.7's in for the upgrade, you may want to hold back until the 3.7I's are out there and you can make a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rollo on 25 Feb 2014, 05:12 pm
They knew there would be a bit of an uproar from the 3.7 owners.
Free publicity prior to the magazine review, I suppose.

  Si Senor.


charles
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 25 Feb 2014, 08:14 pm
Seems Magnepan has finally gotten on the bandwagon with other manufactures   putting out
Mark II or "i" versions every few years to  generate new business. Can you blame them? At least they do give the option to upgrade existing 3.7s.
The 3.6s went on for about 12 years before the into the 3.7s. No? That's unheard of.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: jk@home on 26 Feb 2014, 02:52 am
Yep, some manufacturers do this to get new mag reviews out there as often as possible. Paradigm is ( or at least used to be) guilty of this, V1s, V2s, V3s, etc.  Would kill the used/resale values, but why would they care about that.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rhoni on 26 Feb 2014, 03:08 am
The lifespan of the 3.6R is 12 years.  I think there might have been one price increase along the way.  That is amazing that Magnepan can continue to be a viable company with the same product for this long.

Tech company will have something new every year and something radical every 4-5 years.

At some point, the 3.???? will have to have push pull driver or someway to decrease the mass of the diaphragm.
This means moving the 20.7 technology down to the 3 series.

Anyone wants to guess as to the TAM for magnepan 3.7 speakers ????
How many units can Magnepan sells over a 2, 5, 10 , 15 year period.

I have to admit that I'm a repeat buyer and I've been upgrading with each new generation.  Starting with Tympani 1D, to MG 1.6 and now at MG 3.7.

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 26 Feb 2014, 12:29 pm
There have not been any dramatic changes in moving mass over the years, except for some bass drivers (copper to aliminium etc.). The push-pull Magneplanar drivers are far from being massless. Mylar is still 12 µm. It once was 6 µm for the Tympani IVa mids. Mylar, wiring and glue still makes them rather high mass. The masses of the various parts of the diaphragm and the tension steers the resonant behaviour of the speaker. Push-pull will lower distorsion at high SPL.
 
There seems to be a different thinking behind the 3.7 and 20.7. The 3-series is really a bit handicaped by having bass and mid sharing the same sheet of Mylar. In the 3.6 it is clear they handed over to the ribbon tweeter at a lower frequency to reduce the bluring effect of the mid. In the 20 and 20.1 they let the mid operate to higher frequencies and therefore the ribbon comes in at higher frequencies and blends better.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 11 Mar 2014, 05:50 pm


Is this still a mystery? :D
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 12 Mar 2014, 09:50 am
But of course!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96259)
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Mar 2014, 04:18 am
Just wondering if anyone is currently using the Maraschino amp to drive 3.7.......
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 14 Mar 2014, 08:59 pm
I'm sure that somebody is; perhaps they'll pipe up?

The weather is warming up some so I'll have to take a little motorcycle trip and see what the deal is with these suckers.
No, not to Area 51 the secret location of the Magnepan factory which is NOT in China.  It's located somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle which is a real torture test for the adhesives.
Instead, I'll run down to Maryland or Delaware and see if I can't hear some side by side with the plain old versions.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Hasse on 24 Mar 2014, 03:55 pm
Anyone heard the 3.7i, or even better compared them side by side with the 3.7?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 24 Mar 2014, 05:24 pm
So far, the mysterious 3.7i is only rumor, innuendo and pure speculation on the part of this thread.  :thumb:

Of course, I could be wrong.  :oops:

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 24 Mar 2014, 09:58 pm
It's my understanding that all of the 3.7s made in the past few months are the 3.7i's (the speaker from an alternate universe).

Has anyone here done an A/B comparison?  I haven't.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 26 Mar 2014, 02:33 am
Do you suppose if you actually bought a new 3.7(i) and you were looking at it, would you actually know that it is in fact a 3.7i or would you just have to have faith that it is in all probability a 3.7i even though it doesn't actually have 3.7i actually written on it anywhere, or does it?  :scratch:

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: k6davis on 26 Mar 2014, 02:54 am
Anyone heard the 3.7i, or even better compared them side by side with the 3.7?

I have the 3.7i on order. I'm hoping they arrive this before this weekend. I'm upgrading from the 1.7, so unfortunately, I won't be able to add any insight to how they compare to the 3.7.

I can't believe there hasn't been an formal (let alone informal) comparison written somewhere by now. But then, I guess it's not trivial to have $12k worth of large, heavy speakers around for such a test.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Tuck on 28 Mar 2014, 12:11 am
I pick up my 3.7i's tomorrow afternoon.     This is going to be an interesting weekend.   Will report back after a initial impressions.  I can only compare them to my older Vandersteen's though
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Goosepond on 28 Mar 2014, 06:56 pm
I pick up my 3.7i's tomorrow afternoon.     This is going to be an interesting weekend.   Will report back after a initial impressions.  I can only compare them to my older Vandersteen's though

Outstanding!

Be sure to let us know if you can tell if they are 3.7i's or you just have to take their word.  :green:

Gene
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Tuck on 31 Mar 2014, 09:00 pm
OK
I picked them up on Friday Afternoon.   Right before the earthquake in LA/La Habra...   Got out of town just in time.

Yes they are 3.7i's.   Both the shipping box and the instructions indicate just that.   Now that you mention it though, I need to look at the label on the back of the speakers just to satisfy my curiosity.    That said, not knowing much about the 3.7s' my first impression is that the 3.7i's sound more open than the demo units in the store.   Of course, my environment is different than the store's with hardwood floors versus carpet.   In addition, my listening room is more or less shaped like an auditorium which has both good and bad points.    I do have substantial furniture and wall hangings so that do soak up some of the sound but overall they seem a bit brighter.   The bottom line is I feel there is enough of a difference between the store and my home that for me to make a comparison between the two would just not have an value.     Now if someone wants to loan me a set of 3.7's I wouldn't mind in the least.

For what it is worth, the speakers at the store did not have the resistor installed and after several hours of listening I didn't think they needed it.    I have not installed the resister at home but may do so in the not to distant future as I do feel there are a bit bright.    As it is, right now I am just trying to establish a base line.   Once I am comfortable with their sound, I will begin to experiment.   Without a doubt they blow away my older Vanderteen's and for the first time I actually felt as I was in the presence of the artists or instruments.   

From what I can see, any changes that have been made would be internal....    As I experience more, I will let you all know.

   

   
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Elizabeth on 31 Mar 2014, 10:28 pm
I find the 'Al Sekela's RF choke' tweak instead of a tweeter resistor is better. Over on Audio Asylum Al posted using a small RF choke in the tweeter attenuation position. I bought some and yes I like it better than the resistor.
Much discussion over there about it. You can search by RF or choke or his name.
I have them in my 3.6s
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 1 Apr 2014, 12:36 am
Congratulations!
We like pictures, you know...
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: kevin360 on 1 Apr 2014, 01:53 am
You might wish to use resistors on the ribbons and the midranges during break-in. When the bass starts taking over the show, remove them and decide whether or not you need to pad the ribbon. Enjoy your new speakers. :thumb: I sure wish I knew what was improved about your 3.7s (compared to mine (but, mine aren't stock :wink:)).
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Emil on 1 Apr 2014, 08:36 pm
First review!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-magnepan-37i-loudspeaker/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-232
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: harri009 on 1 Apr 2014, 09:24 pm


It looks kinda like they padded the back of the midrange. ?? What do you guys think?


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97184)
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 2 Apr 2014, 12:55 am
From the photo that looks an awful lot like the same stuff that's on the side of the ribbon, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: berni on 2 Apr 2014, 05:48 am
Some sort of strut support for the plate?
Touch it and tell more.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 2 Apr 2014, 10:56 am
That part of the speaker is very weak and a support is greatly needed.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: sparky62 on 3 Apr 2014, 02:28 am
In the photo of the rear 3.7i, the padding seems to go the whole length on the diaphragm.  My 3.6 midrange does not extend the full length of the bass panel.  Does the 3.7 extend top to bottom?

If the review was sworn to secrecy (with his words) maybe he is trying to tell us something with pictures.  What do you think?

Jim
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 3 Apr 2014, 05:36 am
As far as I know, the mid of the 3.6 goes from top to bottom. The main difference is that the 3.7 have foil conductors.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: NIGHTFALL1970 on 3 Apr 2014, 10:04 am
Was the manufacturing change really worth a $500 increase?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: rw@cn on 3 Apr 2014, 03:21 pm
I would think that $500.00 is probably somewhere around their breakeven cost.

Magnepan does need to understand that this is 2013 and upgrade their customer relations policies. They have somehow managed to make even their staunchest fans angry with their "no information" policy. I have put my 3.7i purchase on hold for now.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 3 Apr 2014, 09:10 pm
There's nothing like that on the back of my 3.7s.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 3 Apr 2014, 11:35 pm
Was the manufacturing change really worth a $500 increase?

Manufacturing change?  I thought the $500 is simply the cost for the "upgrade".......whatever that is.

Is the new (full) price of the 3.7i $500 higher than the 3.7?

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: NIGHTFALL1970 on 4 Apr 2014, 12:27 am
Dave,
I thought as you did that the price was the same.  According to a new review the price of a 3.7i is $6000.00.
What did they add that justifies a $500 increase?
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: jtwrace on 4 Apr 2014, 12:28 am
Dave,
I thought as you did that the price was the same.  According to a new review the price of a 3.7i is $6000.00.
What did they add that justifies a $500 increase?
Oil, Healthcare just to name a couple.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Davey on 4 Apr 2014, 12:40 am
Please.  If that were the case, there's be a concurrent price increase across all their products, wouldn't there?

The recent photo's seem to yield clues, but the original question remains.

Dave.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 4 Apr 2014, 01:06 am
Don't forget Wendell's recent fact finding junket to Tahiti.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Tuck on 4 Apr 2014, 04:23 pm
Dave,
I thought as you did that the price was the same.  According to a new review the price of a 3.7i is $6000.00.
What did they add that justifies a $500 increase?
Actually the new price is $5,995.00.    Is it justified?   It depends on what your expectations are.   
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: AdvoCat on 4 Apr 2014, 05:22 pm
So, is the change structural?  If so, does it remedy any of the perceived deficiencies that Mye stands and others have addressed?

Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: sparky62 on 4 Apr 2014, 09:25 pm
As far as I know, the mid of the 3.6 goes from top to bottom. The main difference is that the 3.7 have foil conductors.

Thanks Roger.  I had a bit of brain fade.  I was thinking of the damping on the back of my 3.6.  It does not extend all the way down to the bottom of the panel.
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: MGbert on 5 Apr 2014, 01:13 am
First review!

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/first-listen-magnepan-37i-loudspeaker/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-232

OK, I'll jump in to the fray...

I'm surprised no one has commented on the observation on the last page of this "mini-review" - that the "i" mod seems to do a better job of integrating the ribbon tweeter with the mids.  That is no small feat, since the one "complaint" about the ribbon tweeter is its singular nature compared to the bass/mids and probably explains why the factory says the mod only works on 3.7's (although there are the mini-Mags and 20.7s which have true ribbon tweeters).  Although not a true ribbon, stock MMGs have a tendency for the QR to be heard as a separate driver from the bass/mid.  My Gunned MMGs essentially eliminates that tendency, and does it by crossover trickery which is probably dangerous for a true ribbon.  The photo seems to indicate a second rectangular block framing the ribbon; perhaps some damping material?

MGbert
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: SteveFord on 5 Apr 2014, 04:36 am
I couldn't help but notice the installed resistors in the review photo...
Title: Re: Magnepan 3.7i
Post by: Roger Gustavsson on 5 Apr 2014, 08:53 am
Thanks Roger.  I had a bit of brain fade.  I was thinking of the damping on the back of my 3.6.  It does not extend all the way down to the bottom of the panel.

That far down you will have lower frequencies, the bass uses the lower section and there are no "dividers" like button or strips stopping the "contamination" to the midrange section. The damping on the back of the mid is just a piece of tape. Magnepan have used it on other drivers too, like the push-pull tweeters of the Tympani, in order to adjust the frequency response.