[bavmike]

How about this... There have been NO real sonic revolutions in solid state analog technology (amps/preamps/turntables/tape deck's, tuners, etc.) since the 70's. I base this on my experience, so my flak jacket is on, and I am well armed.   

I agree with that if you only stick with certain manufacturers. Some build the same products that were being built in the 40’s today.

[paul79]

I agree with that if you only stick with certain manufacturers. Some build the same products that were being built in the 40’s today.

Ok, what revolutionary ways have we figured out how to run a tube/transistor since the 70's? Heck, 60's for that matter.

Parts are better than they were in the 60's and early to mid 70's. Absolutely. Silicon is refined. Electrolytic capacitor tech is refined. There are some real creative topologies out there. However, nothing really revolutionary in my opinion has happened in many years.

[Wind Chaser]

How about this... There have been NO real sonic revolutions...

Here's a prediction, many are going to ditch their tube amps once and for all and replaced them with Class D amps. Why? Sonic merit superiority. Tube tech has been exploited and like an abandoned mine shaft, there's nothing left to be had.

[bavmike]

Ok, what revolutionary ways have we figured out how to run a tube/transistor since the 70's? Heck, 60's for that matter.

It’s the rest of the package that has been revolutionized. Transistors have improved as well. Share some amp spec sheets from the 70’s that can compare with the best of 2018’s class D.

[opnly bafld]

I agree with that if you only stick with certain manufacturers. Some build the same products that were being built in the 40’s today.

You are telling me that somebody is using something other that a round wheel?
............and it's better?

[paul79]

Here's a prediction, many are going to ditch their tube amps once and for all and replaced them with Class D amps. Why? Sonic merit superiority. Tube tech has been exploited and like an abandoned mine shaft, there's nothing left to be had.

Nothing about my previous statement should have reflected that tubes are superior to solid state.

[Wind Chaser]

Nothing about my previous statement should have reflected that tubes are superior to solid state.

Tubes amps are NOT superior to SS. But since were talking about a revolution, well you know... Class D is changing the audio world.

[paul79]

It’s the rest of the package that has been revolutionized. Transistors have improved as well. Share some amp spec sheets from the 70’s that can compare with the best of 2018’s class D.

Look up Sansui BA-F1. 1979 amp. 600kHz impressive enough? Transistors were pretty good in the late 70's.. Electrolytic caps too.

[bavmike]

Look up Sansui BA-F1. 1979 amp. 600kHz impressive enough? Transistors were pretty good in the late 70's.. Electrolytic caps too.

600khz? That’s the only spec that matters? I don’t think too many people that were around in the 70’s could hear that high.




The SNR and THD is decent, but the damping factor and 8 ohm minimum impedance isn’t very impressive. What would the inflation adjusted cost of that amp be today?

[paul79]

600khz? That’s the only spec that matters? I don’t think too many people that were around in the 70’s could hear that high.

Come on man. You just trying to be funny? Not by a long shot is it the only important spec. Look at the rest. Impressive that it can do it, nonetheless.

[bavmike]

Come on man. You just trying to be funny? Not by a long shot is it the only important spec. Look at the rest. Impressive that it can do it, nonetheless.

Updated last post.

[maty]

The true revolution:

With this class D amps generation or with the next -> the number of small manufacturers will be drastically reduced.

And with the news DAC with super clean power regulation + powerful DSP, the lace.

If we add it to the fact that the vast majority of the population has become accustomed to the terrible recordings...

This evening I listened the 24/96 vinyl rip: The Rolling Stones - Blue & Lonesome (2016) and the sound is AWFUL. But the customer reviews say the opposite.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Lonesome-Rolling-Stones/product-reviews/B01M1BPRQ1/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_srt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=1

I just talk only about the sound quality. By the way, the DR is only 10.

[paul79]

600khz? That’s the only spec that matters? I don’t think too many people that were around in the 70’s could hear that high.

The SNR and THD is decent, but the damping factor and 8 ohm minimum impedance isn’t very impressive. What would the inflation adjusted cost of that amp be today?

This amp was like $699 in 1979/1980, but find me a class A/B amp with similar listed specs today. I would guess about $15K is what you would pay.

Do you need better damping factor than 100?
I have never heard an amp with better sounding bass than the BA-F1. It is focused bass that blooms and launches into the room, and it rolls on the floor with some recordings. Sounds very real to me. I don't know if that makes allot of sense, but it is what comes to mind. 

[bavmike]

This amp was like $699 in 1979/1980, but find me a class A/B amp with similar listed specs today. I would guess about $15K is what you would pay.

Do you need better damping factor than 100?
I have never heard an amp with better sounding bass than the BA-F1. It is focused bass that blooms and launches into the room, and it rolls on the floor with some recordings. Sounds very real to me. I don't know if that makes allot of sense, but it is what comes to mind. 

I think $2400 could get you a class D amp today with much better specs than that. And wouldn’t weigh 50lbs either.

[paul79]

I think $2400 could get you a class D amp today with much better specs than that. And wouldn’t weigh 50lbs either.

Where's the specs?

[bavmike]

Where's the specs?

Under $500 can get you an amp with one of these inside:

https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/ncore_mp/nc122mp/Documentation/NC122MP_02xx.pdf

Detailed specs like that are what you get with today’s class D.

[paul79]

Under $500 can get you an amp with one of these inside:

https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/ncore_mp/nc122mp/Documentation/NC122MP_02xx.pdf

Detailed specs like that are what you get with today’s class D.

Impressive in some areas, no doubt. Where is the Slew Rate? Rise Time? These I feel are VERY important specs for my goals.

[paul79]

Here is a pretty impressive looking amp:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjJiZmLq-rZAhWsz4MKHWXxB_EQjBAINDAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectralaudio.com%2Fdma-150.htm&usg=AOvVaw0yYiPnhibjVlKFWOFkqGAP

[bavmike]

Impressive in some areas, no doubt. Where is the Slew Rate? Rise Time? These I feel are VERY important specs.

There’s far more specs on that datasheet than I can find on the Sansui.

[bavmike]

Here is a pretty impressive looking amp:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjJiZmLq-rZAhWsz4MKHWXxB_EQjBAINDAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectralaudio.com%2Fdma-150.htm&usg=AOvVaw0yYiPnhibjVlKFWOFkqGAP

I’d put the latest under $2000 class D up against anything at any cost from any era.