Rosewood RM-40 pair just discovered - - SOLD

John Casler · « **on:** 25 Mar 2013, 01:29 am »

I was recently contacted, and made aware that we have a Pair of Rosewood RM-40's that we didn't know about.

They were lent out by Brian several years ago as a REVIEW PAIR, and used in the BIG RIG Review System of Marty DeWulf of the great Bound for Sound.

Marty used them for a year of so in his system for reviewing purposes, and it is my understanding that they have simply been sitting in a spare room (likely full of equipment) since then.

They are located at Marty's home in Illinois, and would to be picked up by you or your shipper.

I have spoken with Shirley and she wishes them to go to a good home and VMPS'er.

I believe we already have an offer in the $3k range, but wanted to give everyone an opportunity to know about them.

I am thinking $3500 is a good fair price.

They are of the first MLS Rosewood Cabinets, and have TRT Caps.

I will add them to the INVENTORY thread.

John Casler · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 04:15 pm »

As an update, while the $3500 is a fair price, I am taking "OFFERS" and have already received a couple.

We don't want to hold onto these too long, so if interested let me know.

I doubt we will come across another pair.

rbbert · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 10:36 pm »

From the Bound For Sound review it sounds like these have older X-overs that cross the mid panels at a very low 166 Hz?

opnly bafld · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 10:50 pm »

I bought the original dual spiral tweeter review speakers a long time ago, these have the higher x-o and FST.

BFS issue #160 November 2004
http://boundforsound.com/cgi-bin/dbman/db.cgi?db=bitemA&keyword=vmps&sb=0&so=descend&view_records=1

Lin

John Casler · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 11:05 pm »

Yes, these are an MLS Rosewood Pair, and the 2nd review Marty did on the RM-40.

When we went MLS and FST the XO was increased to around 220-280Hz or so depending on the model.

Lin purchased the 1st Review pair (2002) with the Dual Spirals (as he said) and all the Dual and Single Spiral models crossed at 155-166Hz.

Hugh · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 11:06 pm »

John,

Any pictures?

I might be interested.

John Casler · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Mar 2013, 11:12 pm »

No exact pics of them, but they look like the twin of Shaukat's RM40's.

Brax · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 11:56 am »

John,

Where in Illinois are the speakers located? It's a 7 hour drive from one end of the state to the other.

bpape · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 02:04 pm »

Marty is in Northern Illinois - Kewanee I believe.

Bryan

John Casler · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Apr 2013, 04:17 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 2 Apr 2013, 02:04 pm

Marty is in Northern Illinois - Kewanee I believe.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan,

Yes, that is correct. They are in Kewanee.

John Casler · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Apr 2013, 05:07 pm »

Current top "offer" is $3000. . . .going once. . . .going

John Casler · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Apr 2013, 09:25 pm »

I have been informed we now have a $3200 offer

Hugh · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Apr 2013, 09:41 pm »

Too bad I got no more room in my house for another pair of speakers.

John Casler · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Apr 2013, 01:44 am »

OK, These are now SOLD.

Thanks to everyone who placed offers.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Apr 2013, 05:41 am »

Quote from: rbbert on 28 Mar 2013, 10:36 pm

From the Bound For Sound review it sounds like these have older X-overs that cross the mid panels at a very low 166 Hz?

I could be wrong but the only pole I know of is middle C or about 260 Hz. What is your source if I may ask? I owned several pairs 40s and worked for Brian. With all due respect to Marty, I would presume, if Marty quoted 166 Hz he simply typed the wrong number.

The FST arrived in the latter half of 40 evolution. Let me put it this way. Absolutely no 40 FST has 166 Hz pole.

rbbert · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Apr 2013, 01:06 pm »

Quote from: James Romeyn on 19 Apr 2013, 05:41 am

I could be wrong but the only pole I know of is middle C or about 260 Hz. What is your source if I may ask? I owned several pairs 40s and worked for Brian. With all due respect to Marty, I would presume, if Marty quoted 166 Hz he simply typed the wrong number.

The FST arrived in the latter half of 40 evolution. Let me put it this way. Absolutely no 40 FST has 166 Hz pole.

http://www.iar-80.com/page47.html

PMAT · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Apr 2013, 02:55 pm »

RM 40..... http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/vmps-ribbon-monitor-40-speakers-2-2005.html and here the RM-30's also at 166 http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/vmpsrm30.htm

James Romeyn · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Apr 2013, 05:39 pm »

I'll explain the apparent contradiction. The old BG single ended alnico magnet planar midrange crossed @ 166 Hz. The 5' long BG panel crossed about 115 Hz. The push pull neo planar that replaced the BG crossed at 260 and this pole never changed. I owned speakers with every one of these drivers. Multiples in fact.

The neo panel will quickly self immolate crossed lower than 260 Hz. Brian stretched it as far as it could be stretched from the start.

The difference in low end cutoff is one striking advantage the older panel had over the newer panel. I know this from personal experience, testing them with brian with his test mic and computer readouts and ABd them several times. None of this is 2nd hand passed along info as per the authors of every link posted here, which sum total value to me is nothing re. the spec in question.

None of these authors tested anything.

Readers are welcome to believe any mythology you please.

PS: I'm not saying this happened in this instance. But it is highly possible Brian mis-quoted the spec too in writing and this myth became "fact" somehow, passed around amongst the authors. A mid planar panel crossed @ 166 looks better than crossed at 260. Brian once told me his sensitivity formula is to add 3 dB overall for the passive, which is a bit of a stretch. Yes, the passive increases sensitivity, but not to overall bass output, only in the lowest half octave. It's just a mass of air like that in a port. Brian's sensitivity specs back in the days were 4-6 dB over stated. Some other makers did the same, so I'm not singling him out.

I remember the original SOTA speaker Brian was designing. The cabinet arrived at .33 cubic feet while Brian specified almost 1 cf. Stuff happens. In that case it was someone else's fault I won't name now.

Brian and I joked for decades about one demo he did when I was there with a mid range missing from one old Mini Tower (behind a grill)...Brian loved his sound room being super dark. We laughed about that incident for many years.

John Casler · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Apr 2013, 01:20 am »

Seems to be a bit of confusion here. Maybe I can sort it out.

First the initial review written by Marty is for the "FIRST" pair of RM40's Brian sent him which had dual Spiral Tweeters and the 166hz XO.

The second pair which we just sold, had the FST tweeter, and was built "after" Brian had decided to raise the XO to between 220Hz and 280Hz (he was experimenting a bit with different models depending on the woofer).

The other two RM40 reviews referenced above that mention the 166hz XO point clearly also state that the pairs had the twin Spiral Tweeters and not the FST.

I am not sure about the RM30 review (Roger might remember), but it was the new RM30 that caused Brian to raise the XO point, so either Rogers pair was so early that B hadn't raised it yet, or he was given misinformation (or used "old" information) in the review.

So to recap: Early VMPS panel speakers (after I came on board) had XO's as low as 155hz - 166hz and then raised in all models to 220-260hz.

The primary reason for the change upward, was to allow the dynamic cone woofers to increase the impact and air movement to sounds like snare strikes, rim-shots, and other percussive dynamics which needed "more air" to move. It was also one of the reasons Brian designed the RM30 with the intention of having twin 6.5" megawoofers to create that impact. And soon after he also started using improved MegaWooofers, finally ending up with the latest MegaWoofer with 40oz magnet.

In any event, I already answered that the pair for sale (now SOLD) was NOT the pair from the "initial" review, but from the "second" review.

Openly Baffled (on AC) purchased the first pair from Marty with the twin Spirals.

Brax · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Apr 2013, 01:44 am »

And I bought those RM-40s from Opnly a few years ago. If anyone can tell me what changes are needed to the crossover to move the mid panel cross over point up to 260 Hz I would appreciate it.

Also I am looking to replace the twin spiral tweeters with AC G3 ribbons I picked up a year or so ago, I'd love to have that help on this crossover change also.