Blackgate substitutes

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Bumpy

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Blackgate substitutes
« on: 28 Sep 2017, 11:26 am »
Can anyone recommend what caps to use in a speaker in place of Blackgates in a crossover for the 15" alnico bass driver. Values would be say 47uF and 100uF

I did have a good search but couldn't find an answer :)

FullRangeMan

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #1 on: 28 Sep 2017, 01:35 pm »
15" alnico bass driver
Wow look a special speaker, what is it?

Bumpy

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #2 on: 28 Sep 2017, 01:58 pm »
3 way open baffle inspired by Endorphin P 17, but without compromises.

Tweeter is 4" vintage alnico Grundig
Mid range is 8" vintage high magnet strength alnico Saba greencone
Bass is 15"vintage alnico Altec VOTT 416 8ohms

Silver wired throughout with quality components such as BGs and Audionote Kaisei. The speakers were built by Slawa at SW1X

FullRangeMan

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #3 on: 28 Sep 2017, 03:35 pm »
Seems a very refined, great speakers :thumb:
Congratulations.

Bumpy

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #4 on: 28 Sep 2017, 03:43 pm »
Its wonderful. Just trying a different crossover point for the bass. Hence the need for quality capacitors.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #5 on: 28 Sep 2017, 03:48 pm »
Whats the xover points?

Tyson

Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #6 on: 28 Sep 2017, 05:45 pm »
I've tried a bunch of different caps, and IMO the Clarity Caps are the best for large values like 100uF and 47uF.  They actually do some pretty cool things to reduce vibration and electrical seepage with the cap itself:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/claritycap/

wushuliu

Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #7 on: 28 Sep 2017, 05:58 pm »
I've tried a bunch of different caps, and IMO the Clarity Caps are the best for large values like 100uF and 47uF.  They actually do some pretty cool things to reduce vibration and electrical seepage with the cap itself:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/claritycap/

Yep.

Jeff

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #8 on: 28 Sep 2017, 06:29 pm »
Schematic?

As for the clarity, they may very well be a good candidate, but don't believe everything you read about "vibration and seepage".

Tyson

Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #9 on: 28 Sep 2017, 06:36 pm »
Schematic?

As for the clarity, they may very well be a good candidate, but don't believe everything you read about "vibration and seepage".

Very true.  What one should really do is buy them & do a direct comparison.  There's lots of "premium" caps that aren't worth the $$.  Only way to know for sure is to try it out.  IME the Clarity Caps sound better than other caps at large values. 

Jeff

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #10 on: 30 Sep 2017, 01:15 am »
There's lots of "premium" caps that aren't worth the $$.

Thank goodness.  There was a time when we only had a choice of either A or B  :(  Today, there are enough out there for us to actually have different opinions  :D

Quote
Only way to know for sure is to try it out.

I find most layman prefer "not" to buy that education.  Another caveat is that many applications are different.  Different enough to yield totally unexpected results.

Quote
IME the Clarity Caps sound better than other caps at large values.

Large values could be for shaping, bass shunt, or series bandpass.  All of which will yield different results.  This is to say nothing of the design, drivers, electronics, room, customer's taste...

While the Clarity has come a long way, I prefer the Mundorf EVO Oil.  Since you mentioned budget...  It is a better bang for the buck.  CSA's 47uf and 100uF are  almost 50% more coin.  The CSA is not 50% better.  In some respects, I prefer the EVO Oil.  Again, this will depend on the application, and desired effect.  I still have not seen a schematic, much less a specific desired result.  Without specifics, terms like "best", or "better" seem more appropriate for used car salesmen.  BTW, no offense to any of our respectable car salesmen out there  :lol:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #11 on: 30 Sep 2017, 01:26 am »
Hi Jeff,
In your opinion this early image from Lampizator site is true?

Bumpy

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #12 on: 30 Sep 2017, 10:27 am »
,,

Jeff

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #13 on: 3 Oct 2017, 04:06 am »
In your opinion this early image from Lampizator site is true?

Well, this is a tough one.  There appears to be a graph, but it is far from scientific.  So, why have a graph?  You can see a clear error in the graphic representation for the Jupiter Copper between gorgeous midrange and controlled bass.  While I do agree with about half of their characterization, I disagree with the magnitude of delta between the four caps.  We are not told what the Black line is suppose to represent.  I believe their bias towards the vcap explains why they feel that their copper foil polypropylene fairs so well.  Or vice versa.

They are correct about voltage leaky pios.  Pios are altogether unreliable IMO.  Not all paper caps are pio.

lokie

Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #14 on: 3 Oct 2017, 12:14 pm »
That is an interesting image that could be used for almost any component.



FullRangeMan

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Re: Blackgate substitutes
« Reply #15 on: 3 Oct 2017, 02:09 pm »
Thanks Jeff I appreciated :thumb: