[SteveFord]

The reviews are starting to hit (see the Magnepan Stereo Speaker Reviews section) and now you know where the first run went - to the magazines for evaluation which comes as no surprise.
There's some other reviews coming which will deal with using them in a small room as a sub/satellite system which I think is how most people will end up using them, anyways.

[Robin Hood]

We are getting the first reports from dealers on the Mini Maggie System. Here are some excerpts from Mark Ormiston, president of Definitive Audio in Seattle.

"I have it set up on my desk with a Peachtree Nova fed by my laptop. To say it is impressive would be the under statement of my career.  So so cool..........Best new product for me since the Goldmund reference turntable when I was twenty four years old."

Is that enough power for the Mini Maggies? I believe the Peachtree Nova is 80w/ch. so maybe the Mini Maggies are not power hungry like other Maggies.

If the Mini Maggies also crave power, how can you bi-amp the Mini Maggies using a more powerful amp for the woofer panel and a less powerful amp for the ribbon panels or must a single stereo amp handle all three panels?

[josh358]

Looks like they're no more efficient than the big ones. Of course if you're at your desk and listening up close, you'll need less amp power. Whereas if you're listening in the far field, you could potentially need more power than you would with the larger models, since not being line sources after you get back a little bit the sound will fall off as the square of the distance rather than linearly. I doubt an 80 watt amp would be enough for far field listening, it certainly isn't for the big ones.

[SteveFord]

I just took a look at the LEDs on my Harman Kardon Citation 22 amp and I'm using between 20 and 50W on my MMGs playing some orchestral Zappa at fairly loud listening levels. 
There's headroom and dynamic peaks to consider but 80WPC RMS should be more than enough for something that's pretty much in your lap.

[josh358]

Something that's often overlooked is that 500 watts sounds only twice as loud as 50 watts. Another thing is that when you figure peak levels, you're generally doing so for only a handful of the recordings you own -- the loudest point of the loudest Mahler symphony, etc. And never for pop, unless you're into destroying your hearing and breaking your lease, because the peak/average ratio isn't that high.

[Robin Hood]

Looks like they're no more efficient than the big ones.

So can you bi-amp the Mini Maggies like the big ones? I believe some people are even tri-amping their larger Maggies.

Are there any power levels that could damage the Mini Maggies? Is a 300B set amp too little and a 1000wpc Class D amp too much for the Mini Maggies? Is any speaker damage due to underpowered or overpowered amps covered under Magnepan's warranty?

Are there any estimates as to the relative power requirements for the woofer panel versus the tweeter/midrange panels

[josh358]

So can you bi-amp the Mini Maggies like the big ones? I believe some people are even tri-amping their larger Maggies.

Are there any power levels that could damage the Mini Maggies? Is a 300B set amp too little and a 1000wpc Class D amp too much for the Mini Maggies? Is any speaker damage due to underpowered or overpowered amps covered under Magnepan's warranty?

Are there any estimates as to the relative power requirements for the woofer panel versus the tweeter/midrange panels

Suggest you ask these questions on the questions for the ask the factory thread at the top, I think most of us are as curious as you are. About all I know is that the crossover is located in the woofer, I imagine you can bypass it but I don't know how easy it is or what values you'd need. I do know that the Mini Maggies were shown at CES with a huge Bryston amp, 1000 watts/ch or something, and that they were running it hot.

[SteveFord]

Copied from the Ask The Factory Section:

Thanks for getting some response from Magnepan.  I was hoping to determine in advance what are the best amps for the Mini Maggies without being limited to the amp brands my dealer carries.

From scouring the websites I feel that there are two different themes for amps with Maggies. The first theme is that Maggies love high current and you can never give Maggies too much power. As a side note I seem to recall reading something about speakers being damaged by not enough power, whereas most people may believe that it is high power that may damage speakers. Thus I was trying to determine, all other things being equal, if a 500wpc amp is better for the Mini Maggies than a 1000wpc amp or should I step down further to a 200wpc amp?

The second theme from many people seems to be that Maggies love tube amps. I really don’t know if this is true or if people who convince themselves that solid state amps are better are deluding themselves to believe that a lower cost solid state amp sounds better when the reality is that many of these people cannot afford powerful tube amps.

Thus my interest in biamping comes from recommendations from other websites where someone is using moderately priced tube amps for the tweeters and midrange and very affordable solid state amps for the bass. I didn’t think I was trying to hotrod the Mini Maggies by biamping but now I can’t get it out of my mind that I am putting a 427 big block engine into a sexy Corvette Stingray instead of a stock 327 engine.

Perhaps Wendell’s response is a typical response from Magnepan that speaker mods are not recommended. But in all the Magnepan forums I see nothing but many users trying to mod, tweak and hotrod their Maggies, whether it is modding the frames, removing or changing fuses and biamping or triamping speakers.

Here's my take on things:
If you can afford them, go tubes. 
If you can't or simply don't care for tubes, the guys here on AC can steer you to some really nice SS amps. 
I picked up an old Harman Kardon Citation 22 and it sounds great with Maggies.  The HK is around 200WPC which won't run out of steam too easily, my tube amps are 250 and 300WPC and don't run out of steam, either!
Too much power is better than too little as clipping is the killer.
I would throw some tubes in the mix somewhere along the line, though.
You should listen to Wendell on the new speakers as they spent a tremendous amount of time on the .7 series and there's very little that needs to be done other than hook them up and enjoy.
I think that's why the 1.7s met with so much resistance: there was nothing much that the home user could do to them while the 1.6s were a known commodity which could be tweaked with abandon.
The factory did some major changes with the current models but they certainly aren't going to be specific!  I will say that messing with the crossovers is not a good idea as improvements are unlikely to result.
The real King of the Tweakers is the factory - they really have tried just about everything you could do with them.  Some of the results they incorporated into the new speakers, some they rejected for a multitude of reasons (impractical, dubious results or it would make the speakers too expensive).
If they say biamping would screw up the phase response that means that they've tried it.  They put a lot of effort into that area, BTW.
One last thought: I bought a tremendous preamp a few weeks ago (a heavily moddified Carver C1) and I didn't check all of the switches on the front when i first hooked it up as I was rather impatient to hear what all of the fuss was about.
Wouldn't you know it, I blew BOTH FUSES in my MMGs.  What would have happened if I had removed the fuses?  Probably nothing good.

P.S.
If you're sitting right on top of them, I would think a small tube integrated amp (Jolida?) would be just perfect.

[Robin Hood]

My budget for an amplifier is $2500 max. I thought perhaps the following amps might be good if I buy a new amp:

1. Vincent Audio SP-331 Hybrid Amp 300wpc for $1200
2. Wyred 4 Sound SX-500 550wpc for $1800

If I buy a used amp, I found the following online:

3. Audio Research M100 or VT100 100wpc for $2400
4. Conrad Johnson Premier One 200wpc for $2400

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations on using any of the above amps with Maggies? I believe Audio Advisor may offer a 30 day return policy on the Vincent Audio amp; I don't know if Wyred Audio offers any return policy other than something being defective; and I assume that any amps bought online are final sales with no guarantees.

I would prefer to be blown away or wowed by my amp purchase instead of buying an amp that is just adequate for the job, but perhaps that's not possible with my budget.

Any advice or recommendations?

[rw@cn]

I saw the following nice amps on the 'Gon: Classe, Sanders, Mark Levinson (ML ? old but still a great amp). I didn't see any Bel Canto 1000s but they are usually available.

Also don't forget Odyssey and Digital Audio Company. Both of these companies have highly rated products and are also site sponsors.

[josh358]

OK, well first of all, if you're using the Maggies as nearfield monitors, they just aren't going to need as much power as they would if you were listening at a significant distance. You're going to gain several dB of output level. So I don't think you need a supersized amp here, unless you like bleeding eardrums.

Tubes vs. transistors -- well, you'll find people on both sides. And in the middle, because there are ABX tests that suggest that with modern gear you can't tell the difference when you're listening within the linear range (not overloading them) and when you compensate for freq response variations in some tube gear. So I can only suggest you listen. I've found the sound of tubes very variable, anyway, much more so than solid state devices of a certain type. I've heard tubes that reminded me of a crystal goblet, and tubes that sounded like sandpaper. It really depends, or at least it did, when amps weren't as clean as they are today. To each their own.

Bi amping -- if you chose your own crossover type, you'd have to make sure you know what you're doing re integrating the three drivers, this is not straightforward as the woofer is widely separated from the midrange, the driver power response isn't consistent, and the design isn't axial. So you'd probably want to emulate the crossover in the Mini. We don't know what it is. You'd have to dissect the woofer to find out, or take measurements. I say leave the design work for them. Since these are nearfield monitors, it isn't as if you need the extra headroom bi-amping can provide. It really does seem like overkill in this particular application, like (to borrow your metaphor) putting a V-12 in a subcompact.

Re amps, a lot of people speak highly of the Wyred, but like everything, it's controversial. I do know the Premier One. It was a crystal goblet amp with wonderful imaging, remarkable for its time. But C-J stuff tended to be lush and euphonic, not neutral, and I'd say that's certainly true of the Premier One. You'd really have to hear this stuff, even if I'd heard all four I wouldn't know which you'd prefer.

[rw@cn]

  I forgot that we are discussing Mini Maggies. While my suggestions are still valid, they may be overkill.

[Robin Hood]

How about adding a second DWM woofer to the Mini Maggies? Is stereo separated bass be more desirable than centered combined bass? I'm not sure if this is an accurate description, but I assume that the DWM does not provide any stereo separation by itself but may tend to blend the separated tweeter/midrange panels together?

Since the DWM woofer has inputs for both L+R channels, does that mean that you have to feed signal to both L+R inputs for the DWM woofer to be fully energized? In otherwords, is there any reason to feed a mono signal to the L+R amp inputs on the DWM since nothing is being blended?

[Rclark]

I got that part of this thread was the jubilation over the long held relationship of tube amps and Magnepan speakers.

Which is cool, and maybe I'm a big idiot who has no idea what he's missing, but I'm more than willing to put my amp up against anyone in Wa state with tubes on a set of MMG's. My chip amp makes these things about get up and dance.


 

[SteveFord]

As one of my buddies said, "There's magic in those glowing bottles".
Try getting a tube buffer and see what that does for your system - if you don't like it you can always resell it but you might get hooked.

[josh358]

How about adding a second DWM woofer to the Mini Maggies? Is stereo separated bass be more desirable than centered combined bass? I'm not sure if this is an accurate description, but I assume that the DWM does not provide any stereo separation by itself but may tend to blend the separated tweeter/midrange panels together?

Since the DWM woofer has inputs for both L+R channels, does that mean that you have to feed signal to both L+R inputs for the DWM woofer to be fully energized? In otherwords, is there any reason to feed a mono signal to the L+R amp inputs on the DWM since nothing is being blended?

Why not ask this in the ask that factory thread? I've wondered about some of these questions myself.

[Rclark]

Well, I just got my Warpspeed, and hearing them together for the first time (modded battery amp and battery LDR together) and right now sounding delicious. Apparently from all I've read about it on the DIYaudio threads, people are favoring it against some super pricey tube preamps. I know what my ears are telling me too.

 Not so sure I need a tube anything at this point, but I will definitely see if I can try a tube buffer some time.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97379.msg1004548#msg1004548

 But I am going to look at taking my level of dac as far as I can in the coming months. Battery is a must.

[Rclark]

.... Please bear in mind I say none of those things to be contrarian. It is my eventual goal to have an ultimate system, and if that means I need tubes, so be it. I only say those things because even now, as it stands I am getting fantastic sound quality from my amplification stage, and I can't imagine much more improvement from a quality standpoint, anything from here would be incremental, amp wise. I would bravely place my amp system against anything any of you have.

 ...It's just I've come across so many statements by users who prefered my amp versus such and such tube amp, or even the new ClassD amps, where users are claiming the long held advantages of tube amps are over.

 I'm still learning, don't mean to step on toes. Could be I'll hear a nice tube amp and punch myself in the face.

 I wish there was a Dodd inline buffer tour. I'm going to get a hold of that guy.

[andyr]

.... Please bear in mind I say none of those things to be contrarian. It is my eventual goal to have an ultimate system, and if that means I need tubes, so be it. I only say those things because even now, as it stands I am getting fantastic sound quality from my amplification stage, and I can't imagine much more improvement from a quality standpoint, anything from here would be incremental, amp wise.

I too get what I consider to be fantastic sound quality out of my (ss) amps but I would urge you to try a few tube amps, just to see whether you like what they do to the sound.     Not sure which Maggies you have, though, so can't suggest whether you need to go for a 100w amp or a 200w amp

It's just I've come across so many statements by users who prefered my amp versus such and such tube amp, or even the new ClassD amps, where users are claiming the long held advantages of tube amps are over.

Class D is no contender for good sound, IMO - simply lots of watts cheaply. 


Regards,

Andy

[Rclark]

No no no, I'm not talking about plain old class d amps, I'm talking about the amp everyone's been raving about, the brand ClassD, I'm sure you've seen that monstrous thread that's here? I know an AC'er who could run any amp; he runs a battery powered ClassD and loves it.

 I do intend to find a way to hear some tubes.