AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: clive101 on 19 Jan 2018, 11:32 am
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I have PMC MB2 SE speakers with 7b3 amps and considering an upgrade to 28b3 power amps.
I do not push my current amps as they never get warm what would I expect to gain from the larger amps if I were to upgrade..?
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Why are you considering the upgrade? How big is your room and how loud do you listen to music?
According to PMC website your speakers are 90 dB 1W 1m efficient with 8 ohm (nominal) impedance and I doubt you will benefit from the extra watts / current that the 28B3 delivers. If you were driving very inefficient speakers (80-85 dB 1W and 1m) at low impedances (2-4 ohms) the 28B3 would be a worthwhile consideration. With your speakers I doubt you would gain much.
Other AC members have mentioned that the 7B3 is about 95% of that of the 28B3. Others please feel free to chime in...
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Thank you for the information, my dealer recently compared the two amps with a client, and in general talking recommend an upgrade as the difference in power really did make a difference.
I just wondered if any one had compared the two for general advice.
Edit
My room is 25 x 15 feet, low to medium volume, around very loud talking is the max average volume I would use
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Thank you for the information, my dealer recently compared the two amps with a client, and in general talking recommend an upgrade as the difference in power really did make a difference.
I just wondered if any one had compared the two for general advice.
Edit
My room is 25 x 15 feet, low to medium volume, around very loud talking is the max average volume I would use
Was the client using the same speakers you have? I would arrange with the dealer to have an in-home demo for a week so you can listen to the 28B3 and compare it carefully to the 7B3.
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I'm very skeptical of the advice your getting from your dealer. The 7B3 monos themselves have massive power and overkill already based on what you've indicated with speakers, room size, and listening levels. I think you'd be perfectly happy with the sound of a 3B3.
On the other hand, if you've got the cash and really want some beautiful amps to gush over, the purchase makes sense.
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The client was using different speakers and surprised the dealer how different the amps were, hence commented that with the PMC mb2 se would respond if not the same but even better.
Forgive me, I am relatively new in HiFi and the 7b3, I thought were plenty enough to drive the Mb2Se but question what I would gain with the 28b3 ..?
I did not want to go down the route of a demo for say a few weeks if the gain was not worth the effort and expense.
So seeking advice.
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Frankly, with a sens. of 90-dB and your stated listening level and room size, your 7B3's are plenty.
If you think that you're not hearing your music the way that you would like (with excellent recs), then you should consider changing other elements of your system, upstream from the 7s.
[what would you gain with a 28B3? imho....a lighter bank account. :lol: :green:]
cheers
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Frankly, with a sens. of 90-dB and your stated listening level and room size, your 7B3's are plenty.
If you think that you're not hearing your music the way that you would like (with excellent recs), then you should consider changing other elements of your system, upstream from the 7s.
[what would you gain with a 28B3? imho....a lighter bank account. :lol: :green:]
cheers
Agreed.
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Thank you for the information looks like we all agree, it seems my bank account may not be lighter after all :lol:.
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If you think that you're not hearing your music the way that you would like (with excellent recs), then you should consider changing other elements of your system, upstream from the 7s.
Thank you for you help, I have been upgrading upstream of the amps but that's a long story. I am playing digital files and learnt very quickly that noise and RF were an issue for me, finally, have it under control.
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Just a related curiosity, but I'm not sure how many people can really use the power of the 28s? It would seem to me that the 7Bs could let release the magic smoke from well over 99.9% of home speakers even at the high end.
I have relatively large and in efficient/sensitivity dynaudio C4s ~87dB I think, and I recently ordered a 4B3 thinking the extra head room of the 7Bs wouldn't be needed. Im not sure what I would do with 28Bs except admire them or find some 18" sealed subs to drive. Captain Obvious: 1000 WPC is alot particularly when its a conservative rating!
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I have relatively large and in efficient/sensitivity dynaudio C4s ~87dB I think, and I recently ordered a 4B3 thinking the extra head room of the 7Bs wouldn't be needed. Im not sure what I would do with 28Bs except admire them or find some 18" sealed subs to drive. Captain Obvious: 1000 WPC is alot particularly when its a conservative rating!
Good point.
My speakers are 90-dB, 6-ohms nominal, and I went from a B100-SST alone, then to a 4B2 (3 yrs), and finally to a 14B2. Very happy. Won't be upgrading anything, in the future. Will take full advantage of the 20-yr warranty!! :thumb:
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Yes the 7b3 have all the power I need, if I play for example Trentemoller Chameleon and crank up the volume, the windows and whole house gets effected and I am not joking you feel the bass through your body, an experience trust me one blast is enough.
The dealer explains it's more how the amps control the speakers and not the extra power if that's makes sense....?
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Yes the 7b3 have all the power I need, if I play for example Trentemoller Chameleon and crank up the volume, the windows and whole house gets effected and I am not joking you feel the bass through your body, an experience trust me one blast is enough.
The dealer explains it's more how the amps control the speakers and not the extra power if that's makes sense....?
You could have gotten by with just the 2.5 cubed. But, at least you are covered for the future. :)
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The biggest plus might (might?) be tighter bass slam.
Bigger amps usually have more control over speaker excursion.
And depending if the op speakers are 4 ohm or 8 ohm nominal impedance ..If 4 ohm the speakers might sound more dynamic. particularly high impact moments.
If 8 ohm I don't know if any difference would be noticed.
Also with lower efficiency speakers the difference would be more apparent. Higher efficiency speakers I think less noticeable.
Detail and such should remain the same.
(one other point that it may be your dealer just wants some 7B3 as 'used' trade in equipment?)
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Dealers sell gear. That's their mission in L-I-F-E. More $$$ inflow, the better (for them).
period.
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The client was using different speakers and surprised the dealer how different the amps were, hence commented that with the PMC mb2 se would respond if not the same but even better.
Forgive me, I am relatively new in HiFi and the 7b3, I thought were plenty enough to drive the Mb2Se but question what I would gain with the 28b3 ..?
I did not want to go down the route of a demo for say a few weeks if the gain was not worth the effort and expense.
So seeking advice.
Along the line with what others have said, I doubt you would hear a difference. My advice is save the money or put it towards something else (a nice vacation, buy some more music, etc.).
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I have PMC MB2 SE speakers with 7b3 amps and considering an upgrade to 28b3 power amps.
I do not push my current amps as they never get warm what would I expect to gain from the larger amps if I were to upgrade..?
Clive101, i'm on the opposite side of the fence on this one. In my view, you own one of the most beautiful pair of speakers in the world - and they should be paired with the best amps possible. If you can afford the trade-up to the 28 cubes then you should definitely do it. I agree with Elizabeth's point regarding the bass...especially since the MB2's dip down to the 20Hz range.
My goodness...i get chills just imagining the sensation of those lovely speakers with 28's powering them. You only live once, might as well light it up!
Here's a little vid posted just yesterday on the PS Audio site - on this particular topic.
http://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/high-power-amps/
Good luck :thumb:
TJ
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Better discussion of speakers/power, more rigorous:
https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power
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Thank you for the link but I think it is more to do with volume ( which I have plenty ) .
My issue is the sound quality and the gains from having a larger amp and not the volume, but interesting.
I have been looking a the specification of the Active version of my speakers.
https://pmc-speakers.com/products/consumer/se-series/mb2-se-active
Amplifier Power per Channel: LF 325W
MF 150W
HF 150W
Total 625 watts just wondering would that be the same as my 7b3 per channel ( 600 watts ) or does it not work that way as speaker cables etc
Need a bit more power to off set the speaker cable..? Separate amps in active speaker vs one amp..?
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clive: Best person to answer this is JT.
But in the end, try to audition if you can, and then decide whether there is any improvement in SQ.
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hi clive101, i think the basic message in Paul's video (above) is - if one has a choice in amplification (in terms of watts), go with the larger amp because it provides more headroom and - i believe - deliver lower frequencies with more precision. But that's just me.
In terms of active vs. passive, each of your 7B amps is delivering up to 600watts into each of your PMC passive speakers. The internal crossover network inside of each speaker is directing a unique set of frequency ranges into each driver (one set of frequencies into tweeter, mid-range, and bass driver). In the passive set up, the incoming signal to the crossover has already received the full amplification from your power amp.
In the active version of your speakers, the incoming signal is split into 3 sets of frequency ranges before amplification. Each unique set of frequency range is delivered to each of the 3 amps (one amp for high, one for mid, one for low)....then each amplified signal is delivered to each driver.
The power levels you mention (325w, 150w, 150w) correspond to the power of each dedicated amplifier in the active version of your speakers. Each power amplifier in the active setup is dedicated to a single driver. (low, med hi). So in total, the active set up has 6 amplifiers - corresponding to 6 drivers.
Since a 325w amp is used for the low frequency driver in the active setup, a person could interpret that a 7B would be more than enough power in a passive setup. But that 325w is applied to a more narrow range of frequencies for only one driver. A more efficient power delivery system.
Ultimately, to make a decision on a 28B vs. 7B i really think a person would need to A/B test both amps in the same listening conditions. Or....to be on the safe side....just go with the 28's :thumb:
Hope this helps.
TJ
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I have the 28bsst2 and they are sweeter sounding than the 4bsst2 they replaced.
The first 50 watts are Class A and it makers a difference as does the iron grip on bass
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The first 50 watts are Class A and it makers a difference as does the iron grip on bass
According to James Tanner, "Class A for about 1% of the power rating for amps".
That would roughly equate to Class A power of ~ 6W/9W (8Ω/4Ω) for the 7B³ and ~ 10W/15W for the 28B³.
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I had a very similar dilemma, and I ended up with a pair of 28B3's. I can almost guarantee you that everyone chiming in has never had a 7B let alone a 28B in their home. 1 watt out of a 7B is not the same watt out of a 28B... you must try
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The cubed series run class A for 1% of rated power, the squared about 5 %.
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Thank you all for the input....
I am very tempted for the audition of the 28b3 (not so keen on the extra cost) will be making a decision shortly to demo so keep any advice coming.
It's looking likely ...!
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The 28 monoblocks are very special. I'm tempted to call them thrill rides instead of amps.
You might consider the used market for the 28bsst2 revision. That's the only way I could swing it. There are two pair on audiogon now. I have no connection with sellers. Just a very happy and satisfied owner.
Serial #'s 000180 and higher have the most recent capacitors and transformers
Of course, once you get the greatest amps in the world you will also need to upgrade all your cabling. It makes a big and positive difference.
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Very wise advice but there is also some 28b3 versions at a good price but as I am in the UK not able to take advantage.
I have Chord Sarum T cables as a Loom, so ok for cables apart from the USB cable which is very special ..?
Edit UK Retail £21,000.00 or Canadian $ 36,855.00 for a pair of 28b3
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I'll offer up my experience, in brief, and while it involved Bryston amps (been a fan boy since the 80's) it is not the cubed nor 7B to 28B example.
A number of years ago I moved from a 4B-SST to a 14B-SST (both the pre-squared versions) so a 300 w/ch amp moving to a 600 w/ch amp (similar move to what your are considering relative to number of watts). The largest gains I experienced were:
1. much better control over the low end drivers in my speakers, especially at higher volumes (expected outcome)
2. a vast, IMHO, amount of detail retrieval at lower volumes. I was hearing much more content with the 14B than I did with the 4B.
Based on your anticipated usage I think #2 may relate more to your situation.
As is always the case YMMV and an audition is the only sure way to know for sure...
Good luck
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Great feedback and advice RonD. Goes to show, you don't necessarily need to own the products in question to provide meaningful input....right dznutz?
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Great feedback and advice RonD. Goes to show, you don't necessarily need to own the products in question to provide meaningful input....right dznutz?
Correct, that's assuming you have relate-able experience. Too many people talk out of their butts and dont have a clue, internet experts. Going from a 4B to a 14B will yield similar results as going from 7B to 28B. for me its the sheer effortlessness and scale that comes with the jump in peak power. Its not a matter of simply saying you have efficient speakers so you dont need the power.
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I had a pair of PMC MB2i's. I originally ran them with a pair of 7bsst2's. I then upgraded to 28b sst2's, and was extremely happy with the results.
Each 28b has 2 sets of speaker outputs on them. So i ran a one speaker cable from one output to the bass, and the other cable from the other output to the midrange on the MB2i from each 28b. I then ran a jumper
from the mid to highs. I found the bass to be very well controlled and could(when turned up a bit) give a good kick in the chest. The mids were so detailed on smooth.
I would not recommend the 28b sst2's though, i would definitely go the the 28b cubes. Why, i found the sst2's a bit hot on the high end of my Mb2i's.
BTW now i am running a pair of bryston model T actives with the cube amps. I currently have a pair of 7b/4b cubes and find the top end is much more tamed.
Now wish i had a chance to pair the cube amps with a pair of MB2i's.
So if you can afford the 28b cubed, or can audition one go for it, you will not be disappointed.
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wow. cool story adol290. you are a lucky person to own, and have owned such wonderful gear. My dream speakers are the MB2's. I am currently running the Bryston Mini T's and love them - driving them with my 4BSST2. I am trying to develop a plan to move to the new Active Mini T's over the next few years. It will be a journey.
Although I have not owned the 28's, i have heard them in several different listening environments.
Overall, I totally agree with your advice - if a person can afford the move to 28 cubes (especially with such lovely speakers) then definitely go for it. No brainer.
peace out.
TJ
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Clive,
In order to chime in please tell us what preamp you are using.
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Clive,
In order to chime in please tell us what preamp you are using.
I am using the Bryston BP26 as a preamp.
Long story short. I have found that using Dave direct suits me better now, before I preferred the preamp.
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BTW now i am running a pair of bryston model T actives with the cube amps. I currently have a pair of 7b/4b cubes and find the top end is much more tamed.
Nice system adol290. I'd enjoy reading more about your impressions.
That's exactly where I hope to get to ... just have to add a pair of 4b cubes and a BAX-1 :lol:
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Listening session tonight is pure joy. The amps have been on for 27 hours and the tubed phono preamp is fully warmed up. I turn it off overnight.
Been burning in new speaker cables on my FryKleener Pro and after 240 hours things are starting to sound very good in man cave #1.
These 28's have made all the difference in my system. It is the best decision i have made regarding my soundsystem.
Bel Canto Pre 6 solid state and Hagerman Cornet 2 phono pre with Amperex mid 1950's Vintage tubes. Morrow signal cables everywhere. Cardas M power cables on the pre and phono positions. Stock Power cables on the 28's!
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I as well own a pair of 7B3's and although they have plenty of watts and volume I am considering a jump to the 28's. My intention is not to blow the roof off of my house but as other posters mentioned I am looking for more control or better command of the speakers particularly on the lower end ....
I am feeding an Yggdrasil DAC to an ARC LS26 pre amp and then the Brystons . Makes for a good combination. ..
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We have similar systems zoophaugus. I have the yggy dac as well feeding an arc Ref 5se, feeding 7b3 amps... I use a bdp2 as the player. The sound is great. I just made the jump to the 28b3 amps and should receive them soon. I hope to hear the improvement others mentioned on the thread.
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We have similar systems zoophaugus. I have the yggy dac as well feeding an arc Ref 5se, feeding 7b3 amps... I use a bdp2 as the player. The sound is great. I just made the jump to the 28b3 amps and should receive them soon. I hope to hear the improvement others mentioned on the thread.
Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the 28s once you get them, especially as compared to the 7s. I just got 28 Cubes myself and though they are my first Bryston product so no Bryston comparator, I am thrilled with their sound. I have a Bryston BP26 and DAC2 coming Tuesday to try out with them.
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I now have my amps up for sale so when they are sold I can order the 28b3.
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Right on Clive! Good job :thumb:
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I am late to the post
I have always had Bryston
I have owned most amps ST,SST,SST2
Recently move to new house purchased a 4B3 for a 30X22 room,,,,very nice sound so nice i moved up to the 7B3
Room still not finished,i am using FS-788 speakers i have owned for a very long time
I am thinking for a box speaker the 7B3 should be enough
Did you think of a loaner set (28B3 )to test in you home
Here is my set up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177657)
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We have similar systems zoophaugus. I have the yggy dac as well feeding an arc Ref 5se, feeding 7b3 amps... I use a bdp2 as the player. The sound is great. I just made the jump to the 28b3 amps and should receive them soon. I hope to hear the improvement others mentioned on the thread.
Hi tie-breaker, have the 28b3 amps arrived yet please let us know how they sound compared to the 7b3 amps..?
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I thought I would update the post, I will have the new 28s for demo early June....
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We’re you in the Cyrus line at one time. Maybe what hi if? I recognize your user name
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I went from 7bsst2s to 28bsst2s a couple of years ago.
For me it was the extra headroom with my current hungry Magnepan 3.7s in a large room.....
For you, I think the 28's would be massive overkill. The $$ could do you more good elsewhere......
You're overpowered as it is........unless you're listening in a hotel ballroom
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I do agree with the power issue. Well powered up with the 7b3 but is it more a matter for control....?
I listen at low levels, when I crank up the volume medium to loud the speakers do start to sing better....so perhaps the larger amps will help me....?
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I do agree with the power issue. Well powered up with the 7b3 but is it more a matter for control....?
I listen at low levels, when I crank up the volume medium to loud the speakers do start to sing better....so perhaps the larger amps will help me....?
If I were you I'd spend some money on a guy specialized in room acoustics. That would benefit you a LOT more than just buying bigger amps.
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If I were you I'd spend some money on a guy specialized in room acoustics. That would benefit you a LOT more than just buying bigger amps.
Yes I do agree.... but it's taken 18 months to get the wife acclimatised to the speakers....!
However, I am going to look into this but the sound seems pretty balanced IMO, which is astonishing, a few dealers unrelated to the purchase of the equipment have commented how balanced the sound is.
Even so, there is always be room for improvement.... no pun intended.
I will update on this matter in the next few months, thank you for the advice.
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The pair of Bryston 28 b 3 have been installed
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The pair of Bryston 28 b 3 have been installed
And... what's the verdict??? Hope you get many hours of listening enjoyment with them!
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The pair of Bryston 28 b 3 have been installed
congratulations Clive101!! right on.
got pics?
TJ
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The pair of Bryston 28 b 3 have been installed
Very nice,,,,,enjoy
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Thank you for the recent comments of support, the 28b3 (s) are demo units and in black and my system is silver so unfortunately no photos.
I had too many other commitments so was unable to do a detailed session with them but...…
I do not wish to put down the 7b3 I had 18 months with them and enjoyed every moment but these beasts are different and for me " Low Level Listening " I am immersed in the music at low level volume where as the 7b3 were just playing music not singing to me. The 7b3 needed little more volume to get my PMC MB2se singing.
With the volume turned up say loud speech to very loud TV playing the 28b3 were still better by a long short, sound stage wider, strangely I thought lower noise floor, overall a very mature sound.
Bass better controlled and tight slightly more bass, more gravitas in mid range and more rounded treble. I could go on but will wait until the weekend when I can get a better listen.
The next question is to ask myself, " Is the extra spend worth it " ….?
If you have to think too long the answer is usually no.
Well pretty much made up my mind, I normally decide quickly, but will make a final decision over the weekend.... more to follow....
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I thought I would up date the post....
I decided to make the purchase...... however there seemed to be a mix on the part ex price with me and the dealer :scratch:
So very close to pulling out of the purchase until the 7b3 sell privately and or the matching BP26, which may be as well as, Camjam London is soon to start and I may divert funds to my headphone ring...!
Overall the 28b3s are a beast of an amp and grip the speakers ( it's not about the volume ) its more how it controls the speaker. My advice if you can afford the 28b3s it's a no brainer to purchase they sing where as the 7bs can be a little shouty buy comparison, although it seems at the moment I be using the 7bs for a little longer.
I still like the 7b3s it's just when you try the 28b3s your put into a different league .
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Was the client using the same speakers you have? I would arrange with the dealer to have an in-home demo for a week so you can listen to the 28B3 and compare it carefully to the 7B3.
My room is the same dimensions as yours. I recently sold my 7Bsst2's and BP26 and replaced the with the Esoteric F-05 integrated amp after auditioning the 4B3/BP173. The F-05 significantly outperformed both at 120/240 WPS. My speakers are 91 db and 8 ohms nominal 3.7 min. FWIW.
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After 3 years I am about to revisit idea of making the purchase of the mighty 28b3 amplifiers
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The 28's are fantastic. I have had mine for almost 6 years. The grip on the music ... yet all plays with a sense of ease. I don't know how they bring such power and sweetness together in a kilowatt amp.
My preamp is the Pass Labs XP-32. Just got it after having the XP-22 in house for 4 months.
Absolutely a magical combination!
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Nice preamp, looked it up almost fainted with the price.
I am using Chord Dave so no preamp. I did have the BP26 which I preferred but tried several months later straight from Dave and much preferred it so sold the BP26.
Can anyone lift these amps without help and when they are delivered door step only as Covid 19 ?
I will post back when I place the order then the wait.
What colour LED lights does one have a choice ?
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The 28's are fantastic. I have had mine for almost 6 years. The grip on the music ... yet all plays with a sense of ease. I don't know how they bring such power and sweetness together in a kilowatt amp.
My preamp is the Pass Labs XP-32. Just got it after having the XP-22 in house for 4 months.
Absolutely a magical combination!
I have the XP-22, and am thinking of getting Bryston 28B3 amps. How did you like the combination? How do the XP-32s sound compared to the XP-22 with these amps? I might upgrade preamps one day.
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BTW, no way I could (or would ) swing the list price for this preamp. Most of my system was carefully built over several years buying used, demo, close out, whatever. My Black Cat Cables are the only items I paid list price. And my NOS Mullard ...
Here is a review I wrote for the VMPS speaker forum here in audiocircle.
....
More to follow said I and here it is.
I loved the XP-22 and it was a great fit for the rest of the system. But I did NOT stop reading and the user reviews of the xp-32 became a worm gnawing my brain.
You know how it is.
The dealer has a generous trade in program and I took advantage.
Early stages of break in - it’s a demo with few hours- but the improvement on day 1 with cold phono tubes, cold bryston 28s and cold essentially new preamp flabbergasted me.
Listening tonight day 3 and nice improvement. One recording tonight featured a kick drum that must have been treated with padding. Played this record 50 times and never heard ithe soft detail articulated thusly. That’s something.
We have beautifully resolving speakers thanks to Brian. Here’s a preamp to take full advantage and doing so with every musical advantage.
There is a sense of ease that is uncanny. Detail in spades. Beautiful tonality.
Something special here and no tubes to worry about.
Can’t wait for full break in. Running Hagerman cable cooker to accelerate results
Stay tuned.
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I have just pulled the trigger on the 28s all I have to do now is wait.
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I have just pulled the trigger on the 28s all I have to do now is wait.
Hi Clive
Looking forward to your opinion on the 28's :thumb:
james
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I have just pulled the trigger on the 28s all I have to do now is wait.
Congrats!
And welcome to the thrill ride!
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when are you listing the 7b3's? i am interested :)
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Sorry the Amps were sold before I ordered the 28 b3 (s).
Still waiting for 28 (s) to arrive....but the wait is soon to be over they are due next week. Lucky me :)
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Hi Clive
Looking forward to your opinion on the 28's :thumb:
james
Certainly will update when they arrive.
One question if I may
I have requested grounding posts to be added to the Amps.
Would you know the size of the spades or banana plugs or ring size hole that fit the grounding posts ?
Thank you.
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Certainly will update when they arrive.
One question if I may
I have requested grounding posts to be added to the Amps.
Would you know the size of the spades or banana plugs or ring size hole that fit the grounding posts ?
Thank you.
Hi Clive
No I am sorry I do not - maybe ask Mike - mpickett@bryston.com
Why the grounding posts?
james
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Thanks for the point of contact.
I asked for the grounding posts as I might ground the case at a later date
please see the link.
https://www.russandrews.com/images/pdf/GroundingV6.pdf
Not adding an earth rod to the case as this is dangerous.
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The 28 B3 (s) have landed.
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...now you've got the heavy weight champions right at home :thumb:
may the sound be with you 8)
al
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Well I have had time to listen to the 28Bs these are my findings.
I have had the 7b3 for three years and very happy with them they are excellent amps but sorry to say the 28s are in a different league.
Heat
The 28s run warmer than the 7bs which is to be expected as double the power output and only a little taller to dissipate the heat but no deal breaker, do not cheat on ventilation.
On low to medium volume they tick over at around 500 watts (240 volt) where as the 7bs use around 250 watts.
Cost vs SQ improvement.
Double the cost ....Double the improvement (using PMC MB2 SE speakers) for my ears others may differ.
If your in Canada the cost appears half of what we have to pay in the UK so if this equates backwards for amps made outside Canada and you are a Canadian resident it represents exceptional good valve.
Sound
This powerful amp really grips your speakers. I am no expert in power matching amps tp speakers but if the 7b and 28b have the same tech but with different power always go for the power. Power is best ?
The sound stage was wider, detail was easier to hear, bass more texture. The best improvement for me was able to listen at lower volume level (saving my ears) and still be immersed with beautiful music with the same feeling as if it was louder.
Test reports
The amps have very close test reports maybe this is why all the instruments had good separation.
And for me the serial numbers hit the magic spot... all my life I try to avoid the number 13 but oddly that number hits me time and time again, new car delivered, theatre seat, hotel door numbers, the list is endless all end up with the number 13. All end up being lucky ....
Guess What... the serial number ends with ?
Guess I lucked out again !
I feel very privileged to own these amps and very happy with the purchase.
Thank you James (and the Team) for making such a wonderful amp they will give me many years of pleasure.
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Hi Clive
So glad you love the amplifiers - they really are special.
I have been asked that given the same circuitry why the 28B's just sound so good on so many speakers and I think the answer has to do with the fact that speakers are more difficult to drive than most people assume. The 28B's are just so powerful and so capable and just do not care what difficult load is in front of them.
One funny thing that happened was I had a customer call me and say that he was using a 28B on a three way active system and thought it was the best 'tweeter' amp he had ever heard - including his tube units? :lol: I think that says a lot for the transparency of the 28B's.
Best and ENJOY!
james
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Good to hear your28’s have landed!
I like to turn them on 24 hours before I plan an extended listening session. The sound improvement on Day 2 is significant. Warmer, creamier, the delicacy of the high frequencies.... even the speed.... it all gets better at least with my “Squared” models.
Cheers!
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Hi,
I am considering a pair of 28B3 amplifiers or 7B3, so have been interested in the views of this Topic. The cost difference at this point doesn't figure in my decision-making at this point as buying the right thing once is usually cheaper than buying things twice.
In terms of sound quality, the 28B3 seem to win they are not just louder than 7B3's
However one of my concerns is for those people who did upgrade was there practically much of a physical difference between the two, did the 28B's look much larger or you did not notice the difference after a couple of weeks. I have looked at them together and the figures but cannot decide if the size differences will really matter over time.
Are the 28B's installable by one person?
I am also considering a Preamp with a Theatre bypass is the BR-20 is the best option in terms of sound quality, I already have a BDA 3.14 so the streamer in it is handy but not a deal-breaker.
Many thanks, Stuart
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Hello Stuart,
I can only help with the 28b3, size wise a little deeper but weight can be an issue for one person...
I can manage the weight (just) but normally two people is ideal.
The extra performance IMO is worth the extra hassle of the weight but you need to be strong for a self install....
Ask friends family or the neighbour next door for help then an easy install.
Hope that helps ?
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Regarding physical size differences and whether it's a dramatic difference. I guess it comes down to where you will have them. If they are in a rack and all you basically see is the front panel then it's not a huge difference. If however they are out in the open by the speakers then yeah, the 28's are noticeably larger compared to the 7's. I have both 28B-SST2's and 7B-SST2's.
They are very heavy thus awkward to move around by one person due to their large size. I definitely needed assistance unboxing and putting them in place. The boxes make them even more awkward to move because the boxes are of course larger than the amps themselves.
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I hope you got the front handles for your 28's! They aren't just for show.
When I move my 28's - which is rarely - I ask a friend to come over. We each take a side and can get it without straining our backs. Those handles front and back are super appreciated. 85-90 pounds each and it's almost always a weird angle of approach, so two people are better than one.
Don't worry about vacuuming under them, hah!
Regarding size, I came from a Bryston 4bsst-2 and it took a while to get used to these two silver beasts.
Last Fall I put them on 3" platforms with cones. Poor things had spent several years atop scrap plywood, oh the horror of it. Natural maple dyed black, not stained, and 6 layers of satin lacquer topping. The added height really stuck out, took a while to get used to it.
Once the music starts you'll forget about it anyway.
I did notice a slight tonality change for the better atop the maple platforms. Just before the New Year I replaced all the 3/4" fiber board on my Solid Steel shelves with 2" maple and noticed a similar improvement. All from Timbernation. Great people to deal with. 10year customer.
Happy New Year, enjoy your new thrill rides, welcome to Club 28!
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Thanks for the advice on the 28's you see them in dealers etc and it is difficult to tell next to other big amplifiers etc, so the practical experience of living with them is very useful.
Regards
Stuart
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Thanks for the advice on the 28's you see them in dealers etc and it is difficult to tell next to other big amplifiers etc, so the practical experience of living with them is very useful.
Regards
Stuart
They are easy to live with because they pull their weight.
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Thanks for the advice,
I went with the 28’s and the BR20 in the end and no regrets so far.
Cheers
Stuart
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I think it was probably a mistake to get them. Please get something even more ridiculously sublime and sell the 28s to me.
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Clive I currently run 7BSST2 to power my ATC SCM50PSL Classic's that are 85dB efficient and are somewhat comparable to your PMC'c - 5dB on my end so I find the ATC's do not come alive until higher volume listening levels are achieved ! and low listening levels are not attainable without a huge loss in detail of the music.
Also I had my system in a quite large room where it didn't preform that well at all, moved it int a small 12x12 heavily dampened room that I built and it sounded unreal but still needed high volume but bass was improved so much. I was also considering as you are to go the 28B route but I couldn't get an in home audition as my location to a dealer.
Paul
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Not too sure of you question.... but I found better detail at lower volumes with the 28s than the 7s.
I found the 28 amps grip the speakers... Power is king not for loudness but for gravities.
Perhaps try to get a secondhand pair you will not be disappointed.
Depends on your geographical location what options you have ?
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We’re you in the Cyrus line at one time. Maybe what hi if? I recognize your user name
Hi Schmidtmike76
I think you will find that’s me. I’m Clive197, clive101 is someone else.
Sold all my Cyrus kit when moving over to Bryston and am now very proud owner of a 4B3 and BR20.
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Hi Everyone,
I am using a Chord Dave balanced out to balanced in on the 28 (s)....
Just wondered if anyone prefered the RCA input over Balanced with the 28 (s) who had a choice of both with the same source ?
Is there any difference inside the amp for example does it convert RCA to balanced ?
Thanks
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This is a very interesting thread. I can understand why a more powerful amplifier in the same series (7B cubed VS 28B cubed for example) could sound better at high SPL's , particularly with a speaker as capable as the PMC's. But I am perplexed that you would experience such a difference at low volumes while only pushing a watt or two. I would have suspected the two amps from the same series to sound very similar at low output levels ?
Cheers,
Scott
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The Bryston amps I believe run in Class A mode at low wattages and as you step up the series from 3 to 4 to 7 to 28 the available power increases and so does the Class A wattage range before each amp switches to Class AB. Class A may have a different tonal characteristic vs Class AB.
So depending on how low, low level listening is and how many watts are being used where say a 7 may have moved into the AB range the 28 may still be operating within it's A range which may be contributing to the difference.