AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: ACHiPo on 5 Feb 2016, 04:21 am
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Well, thanks to Michael (mresseguie) I now have a new DAC on my radar--the Gustard X20. There was a little good information (and a lot of BS forum noise) on another site, but the good information sounded pretty encouraging, as this ~$800 DAC replacing a Yggy and Vega. Does anyone here have any further information or experience with it?
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No direct experience, but that one popped up for me too, a couple of weeks ago, when looking for DACs under $1k.
If you get one, please report back on it.
Looks well made.
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Hi, guys.
I actually tried to order one on Tuesday only to discover that the units already in the States had sold, and that every supplier/factory in China or Hong Kong had already closed up shop for Chinese New Year on Monday. This means nothing will ship from China for three weeks.
We have three weeks to discuss, dream, and fanasize to our hearts' content. Unless something new develops in that time, I will place an order for one X20. It will be delivered to Aldcoll to burn in and play with until I return to Oregon mid-March - poor guy. If you live nearby, you could visit him to hear for yourself (assuming he wants to share the sound).
Proper credit should go to Dave of ZenWave who first posted the link to Head-fi.org. Thanks, Dave! :thumb:
Michael
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Hi, guys.
I actually tried to order one on Tuesday only to discover that the units already in the States had sold, and that every supplier/factory in China or Hong Kong had already closed up shop for Chinese New Year on Monday. This means nothing will ship from China for three weeks.
We have three weeks to discuss, dream, and fanasize to our hearts' content. Unless something new develops in that time, I will place an order for one X20. It will be delivered to Aldcoll to burn in and play with until I return to Oregon mid-March - poor guy. If you live nearby, you could visit him to hear for yourself (assuming he wants to share the sound).
Proper credit should go to Dave of ZenWave who first posted the link to Head-fi.org. Thanks, Dave! :thumb:
Michael
I didn't make the correlation to Lunar New Year, but I did notice that the estimated delivery on EBay was mid-March, which seemed a bit long.
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In addition to EBay and Amazon.com, there's a site called Kidult.com (sp?). Oh, there's a site where you can order from China, but English is not the primary language (for some odd reason) so expect occasional confusion. There is a brand spanking new seller on Amazom.com called 'Worthy Audio'. I emailed back and forth with one of the owners/reps named Danny Liu. Even he said he called China to try to get an X20 DAC for me, but said everything had shut down.
Maybe one of you could call Worthy Audio to get a feel for them since they're so new. I never got the impression that they were not what they claim to be, so I expect they are for real. They just don't have any sales reviews yet. They're price is a tad lower than the usual $869 price quoted on most sites. They do offer 20 or so other products from China.
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i order mine from china,it take about 2 week for mine to arrive.this back in november 2015.it's does eveything that i want .the only thing i have on hand to compare to is modwright transporter,oppo 105 and the little brother X12.it's beat them all.It's kinda made me lazy,before i love vinyl and Now i kinda sit on my ass on the couch and use my ipad to select music and enjoy . :thumb:
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Long thread about this DAC:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19433-Chinese-DAC-shames-a-few-heavy-hitters
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it's does eveything that i want. t's kinda made me lazy,before i love vinyl and Now i kinda sit on my ass on the couch and use my ipad to select music and enjoy . :thumb:
That's a pretty good endorsement! :thumb:
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Long thread about this DAC:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19433-Chinese-DAC-shames-a-few-heavy-hitters
Very long. Unfortunately the valuable posts are few and far between.
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Very long. Unfortunately the valuable posts are few and far between.
Having browsed "What's Best Forum" (I believe I may have even registered for this forum; before browsing)
I got a hearty chuckle from your comment.
I think finding the proverbial "Needle in a Haystack" might be a more realistic activity to take on then finding posts with value on this forum. I believe I was actually "shockingly underwhelmed" at the proportion of information I came across that I found to be even useful.
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Very long. Unfortunately the valuable posts are few and far between.
This is an early leader for "Understatement of the Year 2016" :lol: :thumb:
I did like a couple of the op-amp replacement comments
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i order mine from china,it take about 2 week for mine to arrive.this back in november 2015.it's does eveything that i want .the only thing i have on hand to compare to is modwright transporter,oppo 105 and the little brother X12.it's beat them all.It's kinda made me lazy,before i love vinyl and Now i kinda sit on my ass on the couch and use my ipad to select music and enjoy . :thumb:
Awesome! I hope my experience comes somewhere near yours. [I'm already lazy and use my iPad too much, so I must be almost there already!] :icon_lol:
Soon....Alan told me he's all set to warm it up for me. [Just in case anyone is curious why I don't have it shipped to me (in Taiwan) - there's this silly 21% import duty on ALL audio gear coming into Taiwan that I've already burned my fingers on once (cost me over $400 USD!) that I'd like to avoid like the plague. I trust Alan to take great care of my new DAC and I suspect he'll get pleasure from it as well.]
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the only thing i have on hand to compare to is modwright transporter,oppo 105 and the little brother X12.it's beat them all. :thumb:
I used to own and loved the Modwright Transporter. The tube stage added a very pleasing bloom and air to the stock sound. Would you say the X20 had that same tube-like quality although it is SS or did you like it more for other reasons?
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I used to own and loved the Modwright Transporter. The tube stage added a very pleasing bloom and air to the stock sound. Would you say the X20 had that same tube-like quality although it is SS or did you like it more for other reasons?
I like it more becuase of DSD capability,plus sound stage is deeper,i can actually pinpoint where the musician is at.the bass is better then MW .I got a pretty good vinyl system .it's 90% there .but the convenient of DSD at my fingertip it :thumb:
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The X20 arrived. It took me all of 5 minutes to get it in and running, and that included about 3 minutes of relocating my phono stage.
It does not suck! :thumb:
It's got a bit of glare, etc., but it sounds darned good right out of the box.
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After all the reading I've done on this, I expected there to be some glare in the beginning. Much or all of it will (ought to) disappear after 150 to 200 hours of burn in. There are a couple different settings that the owner may opt for depending on how it sounds in his/her system.
I was chatting with the manager of a pretty decent audio shop in Taipei a couple days ago. When I told him I was planning to order the Gustard X20, he already knew about the DAC and volunteered two points without my prompting: it needs about 200 hours of burn in before it reaches its 'sweet spot' and it performs far higher than its price point. His shop sells Chord DACs (amongst other brands) and he admitted that the X20 will sound better than the Mojo, but suggested it would not sound as nice as the Hugo.
Mojo ~$599
X20 $799 to $869
Hugo ~$2200
I ordered my X20 two days ago, so I expect it will be delivered in a week to ten days. It ought to be all toasty and burned in by the time I actually get to touch it. :D
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After about 8 hours it is sounding much better. Great detail, musicality coming around, still a little edgy. Art Pepper's sax is right there, as is Nilsson's "Doctor". Tons of air. Letting it run 24/7 with DSD, 16/24, 24/96, etc in a loop from my Aurender. I am not disappointed and hopeful that I will be even more delighted.
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you can set your filter to >slow<,sound much better.less glare 8)
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you can set your filter to >slow<,sound much better.less glare 8)
Hmm from the remote I don't remember having "slow" as an option, just 50 kHz, 60 kHz, and 70 kHz. Its default was 50 kHz I think and I changed it to 70 kHz, so maybe I can drop it to 50 and improve smoothness.
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Update: Wow! It is definitely better tonight. Listening to Art Tatum "Piano Starts Here" DSD. The piano sounds very good. Not real, but darned good! No mean feat!
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Hmm from the remote I don't remember having "slow" as an option, just 50 kHz, 60 kHz, and 70 kHz. Its default was 50 kHz I think and I changed it to 70 kHz, so maybe I can drop it to 50 and improve smoothness.
Hmm on mine,i have 2 setting ,sharp or slow.i use usb for my input on mine.
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Sounds like they must have changed the firmware. I have not done anything with the drivers on the CD other than load them onto my computer. Not sure if that has anything to do with it? I'm running an Aurender S-10 via USB into the X20U. The filter choices are 50 kHz, 60 kHz, and 70 kHz. I tried different settings last night and this morning and didn't hear much difference, but it's already starting to smooth out very nicely.
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Hmm on mine,i have 2 setting ,sharp or slow.i use usb for my input on mine.
OE,
I figured it out. I've been listening mostly to DSD which has the 50, 60, 70 kHz filters. Last night I listened to PCM and saw the filter names you've mentioned. I switched to "slow", but haven't done much critical listening since then.
AC
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Ok, so NOW we're gettin' somewhere! :thumb: 8)
Let's see, about 56 hours in, and finding that I prefer the "sharp" PCM filter to the "slow" setting. The brightness and edginess continue to soften, but the detail remains. The "slow" setting seems to soften things a bit too much at first blush, but will continue to experiment.
Musicality continues to keep my toe tapping. I'm listening to Heart "Dreamboat Annie" this morning and it sounds great--not an audiophile recording by any means, but good tunes. Will break out some of my more minimalist recordings this weekend and report on the results.
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At 80 hours of break in, the DAC just seems to get out of the way. Had a great session last night (~72 hours) with Coltrane, Miles, and Pepper cranked way up. Definitely prefer the DSD to even the higher rez PCM from a somewhat limited sample (most of my DSD files are on HDDs awaiting my MS3 to return from the PC hospital). Regardless, any unnatural sibilance was gone--Jimmy Cobb's cymbal work on "So What" was natural and sparkly. One thing that continues to jump out at me is percussion--I noticed hearing the stick hit the cymbal, not just the shimmering sound of the cymbal. Same thing on drum hits--the "thwack" is distinct, and the tone of the drum is more noticeable than before (at least it seems--this stuff is very subjective, and I realize that once you notice something it can be "everywhere")
Anyway listening to a variety of HRX classical and pop (24/176.4) this morning and it sounds really grand. Smooth, effortless, very enjoyable.
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Just gotta love finding these little jewels. Sorry I am late to the party.
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Does the company have a website (I see a storefront on Amazon only)? I'm interested in seeing if there is a downloadable manual and whether they have a USB driver for Windows.
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Does the company have a website (I see a storefront on Amazon only)? I'm interested in seeing if there is a downloadable manual and whether they have a USB driver for Windows.
ContacT:
http://www.worthyaudio.com/gustard/
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Phil,
I ordered mine from Worthy Audio. It will be in Aldcol's hands by tomorrow. Worthy's price from the website is $799 - you get to bypass Amazon's fees. Easy as pie to order.
Michael
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Phil,
I ordered mine from Worthy Audio. It will be in Aldcol's hands on tomorrow. Worthy's price from the website is $799 - you get to bypass Amazon's fees. Easy as pie to order.
Michael
Thanks. I'd assume as I noted in my question that there is a Windows USB driver somewhere? Probably over the next few months I may sell my DAC and music server in the secondary system as I'm probably going to go NAS and an upgraded music server for the main system.
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Thanks. I'd assume as I noted in my question that there is a Windows USB driver somewhere? Probably over the next few months I may sell my DAC and music server in the secondary system as I'm probably going to go NAS and an upgraded music server for the main system.
Phil,
The DAC came with a mini-CD with a driver. I loaded it onto my desktop PC (thought it might have a manual, but it appears to just be a driver).
Evan
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Oh my goodness! Art Pepper "So in Love" in DSD is absolutely divine--detail, smoothness, liquid. Air and ambience. Stunning! :thumb:
I guess I'm at about 96 hours of burn-in at this point. The Gustard is definitely hitting its stride.
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Phil,
The DAC came with a mini-CD with a driver. I loaded it onto my desktop PC (thought it might have a manual, but it appears to just be a driver).
Evan
Evan - thanks - is it an ASIO driver?
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OE,
I figured it out. I've been listening mostly to DSD which has the 50, 60, 70 kHz filters. Last night I listened to PCM and saw the filter names you've mentioned. I switched to "slow", but haven't done much critical listening since then.
AC
you are correct ,I have my DSD over PCM turn off on the Aries ,now I see more filter setting.sound sweeter by the day. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Evan - thanks - is it an ASIO driver?
Phil,
Not sure if it's ASIO. The computer I installed it on isn't connected to the DAC. The file is an XMOS USB audio driver if that helps. Once I get my MS3 back I may be able to find out more info.
Here's what I found on the XMOS website:
USB: 2 high resolution channels OUT
• PCM up to 384 KHz (44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, 384) sample rates
• Asynchronous Isochronous transfer from host
• Native DSD, DoP64 and DoP128
· CODEC: I2S or DSD
• 16, 24, or 32 bit PCM
• DSD64 and DSD128
Evan
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Phil,
I ordered mine from Worthy Audio. It will be in Aldcol's hands by tomorrow. Worthy's price from the website is $799 - you get to bypass Amazon's fees. Easy as pie to order.
Michael
Well as the task master mresseguie has mentioned I have been asked to receive and burn in his new Gustard X20n as he is out of the country but just steps away from the factory :scratch:
With just two tracks on the unit I am liking it over my personal DAC that has been my weak piece of my system.
Unfortunately I have 44.1K for the vast amount of my library. I do have a few higher PCM tracks that I will wait for a while to give a run through.
The upside is we have the stereo on 6-10 hours a day so this should be a quick burn in.
Alan
P.S. If anybody need the boring and tedious burn in done I am reasonable to work with :thumb: :thumb:
Equipment
Gill Alana Pre Amp The Gustard will be inserted in this task also
Modwright KWA 150 SE
Daedalus Pan speakers with Daedalus Boulder cables
Squeezebox touch Boulder modded
Wywires Blue for the rest of the work.
Furman Elite 20 power
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Well as the task master mresseguie has mentioned I have been asked to receive and burn in his new Gustard X20n as he is out of the country but just steps away from the factory :scratch:
With just two tracks on the unit I am liking it over my personal DAC that has been my weak piece of my system.
Unfortunately I have 44.1K for the vast amount of my library. I do have a few higher PCM tracks that I will wait for a while to give a run through.
The upside is we have the stereo on 6-10 hours a day so this should be a quick burn in.
Alan
P.S. If anybody need the boring and tedious burn in done I am reasonable to work with :thumb: :thumb:
Equipment
Gill Alana Pre Amp The Gustard will be inserted in this task also
Modwright KWA 150 SE
Daedalus Pan speakers with Daedalus Boulder cables
Squeezebox touch Boulder modded
Wywires Blue for the rest of the work.
Furman Elite 20 power
Alan,
Enjoy the process--it was pretty interesting listening as it changed over time. You should be able to run the DAC 24/7--the stereo doesn't need to be on, just the computer/server and DAC.
Evan
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Alan,
Enjoy the process--it was pretty interesting listening as it changed over time. You should be able to run the DAC 24/7--the stereo doesn't need to be on, just the computer/server and DAC.
Evan
Never Ever will I say to the wife that the speakers don't need to producing sound. And I have all the people on this board to back me up RIGHT :nono:
As I have looked around and I don't find a manual for the X20. I did post a question on the manufactures web page.
ACHoPo I did read about your preference for the DSD files. Did you install the DSD Driver?
DSD plug-in Download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/?source=navbar
And the USB driver that appear to be a universal third party for XMOS
Windows XP/Vista/7/8 Driver：
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntDUtqp
And no driver need for the MAC Folks
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Hopefully we will have another convert in aldcoll. Leave it on 24/7. No issues.
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I sleep better to music.
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"Well as the task, master mresseguie, has mentioned I have been asked to receive and burn in his new Gustard X20U as he is out of the country but just steps away from the factory :scratch:"
:rotflmao: :beer:
Strange but true. It must have something to do with outrageous import duties here.
It appears you're going to have to suffer with this new DAC for a while. :icon_twisted:
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"Well as the task, master mresseguie, has mentioned I have been asked to receive and burn in his new Gustard X20U as he is out of the country but just steps away from the factory :scratch:"
:rotflmao: :beer:
Strange but true. It must have something to do with outrageous import duties here.
It appears you're going to have to suffer with this new DAC for a while. :icon_twisted:
So if anyone has a manual of the PDF variety or at least a clue to the battery so I don't screw up my task.
They said there should have been a manual in the box but I didn't see it and since I am only the drop ship site I took care on flinging the packing to points I can find. :shake: :banghead: :banghead:
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The link below will give you the user's guide. The first half is in Simplified Chinese; the English version begins on page 21 (though the browser window suggests it is page 20).
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2
Please, no flinging of packages. :wink:
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The link below will give you the user's guide. The first half is in Simplified Chinese; the English version begins on page 21 (though the browser window suggests it is page 20).
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2
Please, no flinging of packages. :wink:
Having a issue with the provided link with a couple different browsers.m I cant get a complete page to load. Could you download the manual and email to me or post here. I will be glad to pass along a English shortened version.
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It's going - it takes a bit for the pages to pop up on Google Chrome.
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Google Chrome will display it but if one hits the download button if will block it (unless one wants to risk it) for the following reasons:
"Google Chrome blocks downloads
Chrome automatically blocks harmful downloads that try to cause problems on your computer, like:
Giving you viruses
Leaking your private data
Changing your browser and computer settings
Adding unwanted extensions or toolbars to your browser
Why the download was blocked
Your file download may have been blocked for one of two reasons:
We think it might be a malicious, unwanted, or uncommon file.
Malicious: You tried downloading malware.
Unwanted: You tried downloading a deceptive piece of software. This program, disguised as a helpful download, may actually make unexpected changes to your computer.
Uncommon: You tried downloading an unfamiliar and potentially dangerous piece of software.
We've found that the website you tried to download the file from has been known to distribute malware."
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I nevertheless could load a page with three different browser's. And I tried multiple times. And since I am just the warm up crew my time has been spent. I did email the factory and they said the manual was in the box. I sent a pick of the items received in this units box #326? Or there about and no manual. I believe that is the trend from the postings I have seen. Just would like to understand the filter settings and battery for remote as no info inside it. Would like a on power volume setting for when I try it as a pre amp. But again just a happy temp.
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Hmm. I just sent you five attachments. I hope one will work for you.
I could not figure out how to copy the pages to paste onto here. Odd.....anyone else try?
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My box didn't have a manual, either. That's why I loaded the driver CD. Good news I didn't need a manual.
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Losing track of hours, but something over 100 at this point and the sound is very nice indeed. Detail continues, edginess is gone. Grit, glare is unnoticeable if it's there. Sibilance is natural. The soundstage continues to extend beyond the speakers. Very happy with this DAC.
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Hmm. I just sent you five attachments. I hope one will work for you.
I could not figure out how to copy the pages to paste onto here. Odd.....anyone else try?
I did - did not work. I guess I could have tried the 'alt + print screen' and dumped them into Paint.
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Well after a few emails with the factory I have received a PDF of the manual. Bill also dais that they will be putting the manual on their web site. I will be glad to email a copy to those that contact me.
No need to PM me as my email is below my avatar. Please put something in the subject line like Manual from a AC friend. :spammer:
ACHiPo you can drop in the next time you are in Oregon.
What I was glad to see were the instructions for Foobar for DSD for us folks that are just taking the plunge or still on the fence :peek:
They also sent a picture of the battery. It is a CR 2025 ( I am having a issue getting mresseguie's remote to work) :scratch:
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What is their website and what is their email address? Thanks. I want to ask them a few questions.
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Aldcoll,
Are you trying to push my buttons? :wink:
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What is their website and what is their email address? Thanks. I want to ask them a few questions.
I don't know who builds the Gustard. And this is a reoccurring theme from several boards.
They are marketed at the below web site and it appears to just be a major ecommerce for the Asian products. IF you care to contact me directly I might have some information as I have been doing major hunting the last few days.
Here is the link http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html
MikeR The power button doesn't work but the rest of the remote seems to function. But it will be a while till I turn it off. Say April ??
I didn't find any manuals for any of the products on the website
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I contacted the seller I bought my X20 from (very responsive). They sent me a link that timed out. I've asked for a PDF.
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What battery are you guys talking about?
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What is their website and what is their email address? Thanks. I want to ask them a few questions.
A
Rick from looking at your website you have been inside the X20 some. How does the volume work outside of it being digital. Is it cutting into the music signal? If I am stating this correctly. So if it is used in a pre amp configuration will most of the input music be strangled for no better term?
In a couple days I will be setting up that way so I can get some pre amp work done
Thanks Alan. Hit me up for a manual
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Oh, BTW, the remote control's power button doesn't work. :duh: In all the excitement surrounding the DAC's impending delivery and the power cord's wandering travels, I had forgotten to mention this.
The volume is entirely digital. If I recall correctly, the range is 0dB to -99dB. Is that right?
Several owners have experimented with using the DAC as a preamp in their systems. They seem quite happy with this arrangement. I do not know what preamps they started out with, so YMMV. I am hoping that I will like this DAC as a preamp in my system enough that I can retire my T8 (sell).
Ric has suggested a few tweaks on another forum - some easily done by 'all thumbs' types - others would require an experienced modder.
What else have I forgotten?
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Thanks for the on off info.
And just a note as you will be returning shortly. That cute kitten you dropped on in the trap that you said was the love of your life?
Well it had never seen the inside of a house,,,,,,,,,,,that it couldn't destroy. And you said it was box trained? I didn't realize that the box was 1400 square ft. And it loves to sharpen it's claw's on my cherry Daedalus Pan's. You said you really wanted a pair. And since I have upgraded two models you can have my old Pan's for my replacement cost.
Enjoy your extended stay. I will take care of fluffy for you. They guys should have the sheet rock on the ceiling fixed by your return.
You Friend Alan. Lover of animals and audio stuff
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Sounds fabulous as a preamp, compared to a ARC REF5SE.
Oh, BTW, the remote control's power button doesn't work. :duh: In all the excitement surrounding the DAC's impending delivery and the power cord's wandering travels, I had forgotten to mention this.
The volume is entirely digital. If I recall correctly, the range is 0dB to -99dB. Is that right?
Several owners have experimented with using the DAC as a preamp in their systems. They seem quite happy with this arrangement. I do not know what preamps they started out with, so YMMV. I am hoping that I will like this DAC as a preamp in my system enough that I can retire my T8 (sell).
Ric has suggested a few tweaks on another forum - some easily done by 'all thumbs' types - others would require an experienced modder.
What else have I forgotten?
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Thanks for the on off info.
And just a note as you will be returning shortly. That cute kitten you dropped on in the trap that you said was the love of your life?
Well it had never seen the inside of a house,,,,,,,,,,,that it couldn't destroy. And you said it was box trained? I didn't realize that the box was 1400 square ft. And it loves to sharpen it's claw's on my cherry Daedalus Pan's. You said you really wanted a pair. And since I have upgraded two models you can have my old Pan's for my replacement cost.
Enjoy your extended stay. I will take care of fluffy for you. They guys should have the sheet rock on the ceiling fixed by your return.
You Friend Alan. Lover of animals and audio stuff
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I hope?
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Sounds fabulous as a preamp, compared to a ARC REF5SE.
still? Even after re-tubing?
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Now that is a mighty fine endorsement! :thumb:
nc42acc, is your X20 stock, or have you tweaked it in anyway (WA-Quantum Chips, etc.)?
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As if the dual ES9018S chips weren't already very powerful, ESS Technology has announced the next series of chips. I wonder if I'll actually need to upgrade in a couple years.....[Did I really just say that?]
Check it out:
ESS Technology Introduces the SABRE PRO Series of DACs Setting a New Performance Bar with Unprecedented 140 dB Dynamic Range
Flagship ES9038PRO SABRE DAC Brings Music to Life for Audiophile and Professional Products
CES 2016 – Las Vegas, NV - ESS Technology today announced its new professional series of Digital-to-Analog Converters (DAC) targeted at premium audiophile and recording studio equipment. The flagship offering for this professional series is the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC. This first member of the ESS PRO SABRE series sets a new benchmark in high-end audio by offering the industry’s highest dynamic range (DNR) of 140dB. The ES9038PRO also offers impressively low total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N) at -122dB in a 32-bit, 8-channel DAC.
ES9038PRO-B-sm.jpg
“The immersive nature and quality of the audio experience that listeners value is a direct result of how well the digital source material is converted to the analog sound that human ears understand,” said Dan Christman, ESS’s Chief Marketing Officer. “Our audiophile and professional customers are constantly driving us to push the technical envelope to deliver better performance and enhance the listening experience. We are very pleased to announce that our new PRO series, with the flagship SABRE ES9038PRO, takes that experience to a new level, both for the home and professional studio environments.”
Technical Specifications
The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC features ESS’s patented 32-bit HyperStreamDAC technology. The HyperStream architecture is responsible for both the outstanding sound quality of ESS PRO SABRE DACs and the extremely low THD+N. Other 32-Bit 8-Channel DACs, using typical delta-sigma architecture, feature –107 dB THD+N (0.0004%), which when subjected to individual listening tests do not equal the clarity and sound stage of the ES9038PRO. This new flagship SABRE DAC was created to integrate seamlessly with both the existing and future portfolio of ESS headphone amplifiers as well as other audio building block technology.
Designed to Recognize and Realize the Artistic Vision
The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC was designed for premium home theater equipment including Blu-ray players, preamplifiers, all-in-one A/V receivers, and more. For serious audiophiles it provides the most immersive listening experience – bringing music to life. Studio environments can also leverage the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC’s industry-leading performance for professional audio workstations and other equipment. The PRO series enables studio professionals to recreate popular signature sound styles, using external DSP and specialized software packages, while remaining true to the artists’ musical vision.
The Complete SABRE PRO Series of DACs
In addition to the SABRE ES9038PRO, ESS is also announcing other members of the PRO series - the ES9028PRO and ES9026PRO SABRE DACs. These 32-bit, 8-channel PRO series DACs are designed for the audiophile/enthusiast who demands the high quality and performance of a SABRE DAC at a more economical price point. The ES9028PRO and ES9026PRO are pin-compatible upgrades for previous generation ESS products—the ES9018S and ES9016S – and feature 129 dB and 124 dB dynamic range (DNR), and -120 dB and -110 dB total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N).
Product briefs with further technical details and block diagrams are available here.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/ess-technology-introduces-sabre-pro-series-dacs-setting-new-performance-bar-unprecedented-140-db-dynamic-range/
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Well the wife is off to the exercise thing with the gals. Fluffy is cowering in the corner and I am Jamming.
The Gustard running as a pre amp. It is plugged in to the Modwight 150 and it sound pretty darned good.
The X20 has been running for three days so there is still room to grow I hope. I seem to be missing some of the high end.
Sound stage is immense compared to the Parasound I usually run. Lots more detail, a little more snap in the base.
I am currently listening to some of my limited high Rez and a Vast improvement.
I am not to impressed with the volume control limits or should I say small area to work in.
Sound starts at -55 and -18 to 20 normal listening and those last 20 go so fast for that little you might want to turn it up before the ears bleed.
I will slip the Gill in in the morning.
Now back to Fluffy and some Tori Amos and Sir Eric Her Kitty Kitty
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Evan not as big of a difference after the new tubes in the REF5SE. If I didn't need the additional switching I could happily live with the X20 alone driving the amp.
still? Even after re-tubing?
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Only thing not stock is the power cord.
Now that is a mighty fine endorsement! :thumb:
nc42acc, is your X20 stock, or have you tweaked it in anyway (WA-Quantum Chips, etc.)?
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As if the dual ES9018S chips weren't already very powerful, ESS Technology has announced the next series of chips. I wonder if I'll actually need to upgrade in a couple years.....[Did I really just say that?]
Check it out:
ESS Technology Introduces the SABRE PRO Series of DACs Setting a New Performance Bar with Unprecedented 140 dB Dynamic Range
Flagship ES9038PRO SABRE DAC Brings Music to Life for Audiophile and Professional Products
CES 2016 – Las Vegas, NV - ESS Technology today announced its new professional series of Digital-to-Analog Converters (DAC) targeted at premium audiophile and recording studio equipment. The flagship offering for this professional series is the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC. This first member of the ESS PRO SABRE series sets a new benchmark in high-end audio by offering the industry’s highest dynamic range (DNR) of 140dB. The ES9038PRO also offers impressively low total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N) at -122dB in a 32-bit, 8-channel DAC.
ES9038PRO-B-sm.jpg
“The immersive nature and quality of the audio experience that listeners value is a direct result of how well the digital source material is converted to the analog sound that human ears understand,” said Dan Christman, ESS’s Chief Marketing Officer. “Our audiophile and professional customers are constantly driving us to push the technical envelope to deliver better performance and enhance the listening experience. We are very pleased to announce that our new PRO series, with the flagship SABRE ES9038PRO, takes that experience to a new level, both for the home and professional studio environments.”
Technical Specifications
The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC features ESS’s patented 32-bit HyperStreamDAC technology. The HyperStream architecture is responsible for both the outstanding sound quality of ESS PRO SABRE DACs and the extremely low THD+N. Other 32-Bit 8-Channel DACs, using typical delta-sigma architecture, feature –107 dB THD+N (0.0004%), which when subjected to individual listening tests do not equal the clarity and sound stage of the ES9038PRO. This new flagship SABRE DAC was created to integrate seamlessly with both the existing and future portfolio of ESS headphone amplifiers as well as other audio building block technology.
Designed to Recognize and Realize the Artistic Vision
The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC was designed for premium home theater equipment including Blu-ray players, preamplifiers, all-in-one A/V receivers, and more. For serious audiophiles it provides the most immersive listening experience – bringing music to life. Studio environments can also leverage the ES9038PRO SABRE DAC’s industry-leading performance for professional audio workstations and other equipment. The PRO series enables studio professionals to recreate popular signature sound styles, using external DSP and specialized software packages, while remaining true to the artists’ musical vision.
The Complete SABRE PRO Series of DACs
In addition to the SABRE ES9038PRO, ESS is also announcing other members of the PRO series - the ES9028PRO and ES9026PRO SABRE DACs. These 32-bit, 8-channel PRO series DACs are designed for the audiophile/enthusiast who demands the high quality and performance of a SABRE DAC at a more economical price point. The ES9028PRO and ES9026PRO are pin-compatible upgrades for previous generation ESS products—the ES9018S and ES9016S – and feature 129 dB and 124 dB dynamic range (DNR), and -120 dB and -110 dB total harmonic distortion plus noise (THD+N).
Product briefs with further technical details and block diagrams are available here.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/ess-technology-introduces-sabre-pro-series-dacs-setting-new-performance-bar-unprecedented-140-db-dynamic-range/
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So this evening twice I muted the Gustard and paused the Squeezebox. After getting a fresh beverage and additional delays I hit play on the SQB it wakes up and BLAM SOUND. Thew Gustard says MUTE but damm that sounds like -16db.
I have tried too repeat and only once of five times did it happen again......... :scratch:
And I should say the SQB is WIFI so no cross remote signal.
Alan
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Has anyone compared it to Teac's UD-503?
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Yes, I sent the UD-503 back after a week.
Has anyone compared it to Teac's UD-503?
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There a Gain setting also on the front to adjust also, i have mine adjust to plus 12 db which make a big different on my BentAudio passive pre amp. :o :o :thumb:
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I have owned one of these for about 3 months.
I have nothing but great things to say about it.
I am using an Opera CD 2.2 for redbook, and it sounds better than the tube DAC that is built into the Opera.
I am also using a pc for hi rez PCM and DSD via USB. Again, sounds incredible. Much better than the $800 price tag would suggest.
The only thing I am disappointed in, is there is almost no information that I can find on how to use the I2s over HDMI.
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So, Aldcoll, how are you enjoying this DAC? I'm sure someone out there (across the pond) is extremely interested. :icon_lol:
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Yes, I sent the UD-503 back after a week.
The one reason the Teac has appeal then is the AUX input.
Has anyone compared to the Parasound P5?
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I am laboriously burning in mressrguie's Gustard X20 and keeping his kitty Fluffy while he travels the the Asian wonderland's.
While i don't own any DSD files it is preforming quit well and even more so on the few high Rez files. Fluffy likes the Stray Cats :thumb:
I personally own a Parasound ZDAC and I have also been looking for a upgrade. I think I have found it.
The x20 has a couple points that need some attention. I there is something missing with the high's either rolled off or as Ric said "you hear a cymbal but you don't hear the stick working it". I did a bunch of Jazz listening and it is quit apparent.
I have neen running it as a pre amp and feeding it with a Squeezebox Touch. And if the SQB is paused and the X20 muted. You then start the SQB up and it plays even with the mute set.
Activation of the mute is a little cumbersome as you have to hold the button just enough but not to much.
I plan of putting the Alana Pre back in and see how that sounds.
I will say the Sound is Heavenly. Large sound stage and dynamics.
I need to read about the HDMI input and I now know that my Comcast Box really does have 96 output.
I really wish there was a way to gather some of the assorted brands and hear them all for a day. But If I want to do that I will have to hurry before the long awaited traveler returns. He has demanded that it be boxed ready to be swept away upon his arrival.
But here it is a Official invite for a Oregon Dac shoot out at my place :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Hmm. Are you certain Fluffy wasn't introduced by Sue?
Once we return, there will be a nearly two-week period before I snatch the DAC away, so you're looking at the end of April as of now. It would be great to compare DACs after I return. Let's make a short list of 'DACs to die for' that our wives won't kill us for considering. Echo and Stereotypes in Portland might be persuaded to part with something for a weekend trial.
Let's also see what improvements are possible once that well traveled TWL Digital American HP power cord shows up in another week or so.
I wonder if any of Ric's or TDSS Bob's tweaks can fix that roll off.
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Might want to see if John C. will let you guys borrow a DAC-9 to compare.
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The x20 has a couple points that need some attention. I there is something missing with the high's either rolled off or as Ric said "you hear a cymbal but you don't hear the stick working it". I did a bunch of Jazz listening and it is quit apparent.
interesting, especially since I've noticed more percussion with the Gustard.
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Me too
interesting, especially since I've noticed more percussion with the Gustard.
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So after the better part of this weekend of trying different setup's of the X20 as a per amp or using a pre amp I have gotten a handle on the a fore mentioned high end roll off or loss. And first of all the percussion sounds great, it's the light nuance of some cymbal work that I was missing.
When I posted that a few days ago I was running the X20 as a Pre Amp. And since the stereo is in the front room and we were working on tax crap the volume was -34 to -37. And since this is a digital volume I think I was cutting out enough of the signal or the 44.1 k tracks were some scientific number that I will allow someone else to extrapolate.
So I swapped stuff around and put the Alana back in and the X20 is back to 44.1 and most of what I was missing was back.
I dropped in the Parasound ZDAC and while it sounded like crap I was hearing the lightest stick action on the cymbal.
But let me also state that the X20 is about 20 times the DAC as the ZDAC. Now I just need to finish the tax stuff so I can see if I can order one for myself.
This little box is the best improvement in my audio set up and the bang for the buck is outstanding. :thumb:
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Might want to see if John C. will let you guys borrow a DAC-9 to compare.
Tommy might be willing to have you demo his DAC DAC, too.
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Toys Toys :bounce: :bounce:
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Hi, I have experience Gustard X20u in my house like month ago. My buddy have also Hydra Z: http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-z ........ what I found as this combination work best to my ears. I have at that time home TEAC 501UD and with all respect in my opinion was out preform Gustard+Hydra Z. Next week will have home new TEAC 503NT so I will definitely call my buddy back with Gustard X20u for little showdown.
Ritchie
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Look forward to the review. And this is the first I have heard of the Hydra.
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I am also using a pc for hi rez PCM and DSD via USB. Again, sounds incredible. Much better than the $800 price tag would suggest.
The only thing I am disappointed in, is there is almost no information that I can find on how to use the I2s over HDMI.
Send me a email and I will pass along the manual. aldcoll@comcast. Keep my email to private please.
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Looks like the Gustard U12 that I found was a detriment to the sound of the X20.
Hi, I have experience Gustard X20u in my house like month ago. My buddy have also Hydra Z: http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-z ........ what I found as this combination work best to my ears. I have at that time home TEAC 501UD and with all respect in my opinion was out preform Gustard+Hydra Z. Next week will have home new TEAC 503NT so I will definitely call my buddy back with Gustard X20u for little showdown.
Ritchie
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Look forward to the review. And this is the first I have heard of the Hydra.
Will do. Just make sure we have fair review I have mine two friend's with me to tel me their opinions.
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Which power cords are folks using with their X20 DACs? I know Aldcoll is using the stock PC right now, but the Triode Wire Labs Digital American High Power PC I purchased (from an AC member) ought to arrive in his mailbox by March 14th. I hope that makes a difference.
Once I return, I'm going to place my PI Audio UberBUSS and my TWL 10+ PC into the mix just to see if that influences the SQ.
There are specialty USB cords that separate the power wire from the signal wires that may be worth a try. Also, it seems to me that there are: Regen USB, iFi USB, and ??? USB cords available to further reduce jitter.
I'm very interested to compare SQ with:
1. X20 as DAC/pre + solid state amp
2. X20 as DAC/pre + tube amp
3. X20 as DAC/pre + hybrid amp
Alan has the Modwright solid state amp; I've got my Audio by Van Alstine 400R hybrid amp, so I just need to track down a tube amp for a show down. If there is no one who can supply one, I'll try Echo, Pearl, or another audio store for a loaner.
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Where do you live? I have a truckload of amps and USB cables. So far the best USB cable in my system is the Kimber AG B bus.
Which power cords are folks using with their X20 DACs? I know Aldcoll is using the stock PC right now, but the Triode Wire Labs Digital American High Power PC I purchased (from an AC member) ought to arrive in his mailbox by March 14th. I hope that makes a difference.
Once I return, I'm going to place my PI Audio UberBUSS and my TWL 10+ PC into the mix just to see if that influences the SQ.
There are specialty USB cords that separate the power wire from the signal wires that may be worth a try. Also, it seems to me that there are: Regen USB, iFi USB, and ??? USB cords available to further reduce jitter.
I'm very interested to compare SQ with:
1. X20 as DAC/pre + solid state amp
2. X20 as DAC/pre + tube amp
3. X20 as DAC/pre + hybrid amp
Alan has the Modwright solid state amp; I've got my Audio by Van Alstine 400R hybrid amp, so I just need to track down a tube amp for a show down. If there is no one who can supply one, I'll try Echo, Pearl, or another audio store for a loaner.
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When I'm not in Taiwan, I can be found in Corvallis, Oregon. Aldcoll is just 25 minutes south of me in Harrisburg. He must be just 20 minutes north of Eugene.
Echo Audio (Echo HiFi), and Pearl Audio are in Portland. They've always got tube gear on hand. Echo is a great source of gently used gear and could loan something out Saturday afternoon if it is returned by Monday morning. Pearl sells McIntosh. There's an audio store in Eugene, but I kinda think they do not sell tube gear. I've got a couple ideas....email time...
I smell an audio GTG brewing....
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Sorry guys would love to join you but you are a fur piece from North Carolina.
When I'm not in Taiwan, I can be found in Corvallis, Oregon. Aldcoll is just 25 minutes south of me in Harrisburg. He must be just 20 minutes north of Eugene.
Echo Audio (Echo HiFi), and Pearl Audio are in Portland. They've always got tube gear on hand. Echo is a great source of gently used gear and could loan something out Saturday afternoon if it is returned by Monday morning. Pearl sells McIntosh. There's an audio store in Eugene, but I kinda think they do not sell tube gear. I've got a couple ideas....email time...
I smell an audio GTG brewing....
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Sorry guys would love to join you but you are a fur piece from North Carolina.
Actually, I've been envious of your location for some time now. There are some amazingly great GTGs held in your area. :(
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Lot of room on this side of the world, come on over we will welcome you home.
Actually, I've been envious of your location for some time now. There are some amazingly great GTGs held in your area. :(
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Which power cords are folks using with their X20 DACs? I know Aldcoll is using the stock PC right now, but the Triode Wire Labs Digital American High Power PC I purchased (from an AC member) ought to arrive in his mailbox by March 14th. I hope that makes a difference.
Once I return, I'm going to place my PI Audio UberBUSS and my TWL 10+ PC into the mix just to see if that influences the SQ.
There are specialty USB cords that separate the power wire from the signal wires that may be worth a try. Also, it seems to me that there are: Regen USB, iFi USB, and ??? USB cords available to further reduce jitter.
I'm very interested to compare SQ with:
1. X20 as DAC/pre + solid state amp
2. X20 as DAC/pre + tube amp
3. X20 as DAC/pre + hybrid amp
Alan has the Modwright solid state amp; I've got my Audio by Van Alstine 400R hybrid amp, so I just need to track down a tube amp for a show down. If there is no one who can supply one, I'll try Echo, Pearl, or another audio store for a loaner.
I'm running a stock cord, and thinking of picking up a Pangea.
I'm running a Black Cat USB that I picked up here. I haven't tried anything else.
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Once I return, I'm going to place my PI Audio UberBUSS and my TWL 10+ PC into the mix just to see if that influences the SQ.
There are specialty USB cords that separate the power wire from the signal wires that may be worth a try. Also, it seems to me that there are: Regen USB, iFi USB, and ??? USB cords available to further reduce jitter.
One of those USB cords that separate power form data is the PI Audio cable. By far the best I've heard. A couple of reviews I wrote about it:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/p-i-audio-and-other-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cables-25273/#post450309
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/pi-audio-and-curious-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cables-uptone-regen-and-similar-usage-27760/
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Which power cords are folks using with their X20 DACs? I know Aldcoll is using the stock PC right now, but the Triode Wire Labs Digital American High Power PC I purchased (from an AC member) ought to arrive in his mailbox by March 14th. I hope that makes a difference.
Alan has the Modwright solid state amp; I've got my Audio by Van Alstine 400R hybrid amp, so I just need to track down a tube amp for a show down. If there is no one who can supply one, I'll try Echo, Pearl, or another audio store for a loaner.
I am using a Wywires Blue Power cord and a High Class DIY Coax. And the Wywires stock cable is a difference.
IF we can pull of a review, return to the mother land party I will make some effort to gather a couple different DAC's in the same ball park. And the whole tube amp hunting and choosing I will leave up to you. And as I usually say the amp will need to have the speaker selection narrowed.
While you have chosen a DAC (for now or then next chip comes out :scratch:)
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RPF,
I did not know that Dave made this audio cable. I knew about his power cable and his Mac Mini Power Cable.....or did I misunderstand his email way back when? [just checked old emails, i did not know about the USB cord] Time to order one now. [Edit: I just ordered Dave's 1.5m USB cable.....Oh, Aldcoll...]
Thank you for your review post on CA.
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Pi digibus ->>stock power cable,uptown usb>>furutech usb >>>Gustard :thumb:
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RPF,
I did not know that Dave made this audio cable. I knew about his power cable and his Mac Mini Power Cable.....or did I misunderstand his email way back when? [just checked old emails, i did not know about the USB cord] Time to order one now.
Thank you for your review post on CA.
You're welcome. Btw, the TWL Digital American HC PC made a big difference on my EE DAC Plus. I'm sure it will do the same for your Gustard. :thumb:
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The x20 has a couple points that need some attention. I there is something missing with the high's either rolled off or as Ric said "you hear a cymbal but you don't hear the stick working it". I did a bunch of Jazz listening and it is quit apparent.
As an ex-percussionist, and a jazz fan, I have to disagree with the above assessment. I pay a lot of attention to percussion.
I also listen to quite a bit of 20th century and contemporary classical, which has quite a bit of percussion, and I don't even hear what you are hearing (or not hearing) on orchestral percussion with the orchestra playing forte.
I will do some listening this weekend, with specific attention to percussion reproduction. Hopefully I can get my friend to bring over his Benchmark DAC2, which goes for about double the Gustard.
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As an ex-percussionist, and a jazz fan, I have to disagree with the above assessment. I pay a lot of attention to percussion.
I also listen to quite a bit of 20th century and contemporary classical, which has quite a bit of percussion, and I don't even hear what you are hearing (or not hearing) on orchestral percussion with the orchestra playing forte.
I will do some listening this weekend, with specific attention to percussion reproduction. Hopefully I can get my friend to bring over his Benchmark DAC2, which goes for about double the Gustard.
Simoon,
I'm with you (also a percussionist, albeit an amateur) as I think percussion is one of the things the X20 does really well (I'm still trying to wrap my head around why a DAC can do drum and cymbal hits better than another).
AC
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I received my Gustard X20u Monday March 7, I immediately connected it to my system via coax to the oppo 103 and began streaming Tidal it remained that way for 48 hours. My initial impression was relaxed (no glare or edginess) yet I could hear lots of information. The next evening the sound had changed enough that relaxed was not my first word, it still presented lots of information but now the tonal scale was tilting up more and some cuts may of had some glare. Third evening I installed the USB drivers and connected the X20u to my dedicated audio PC (win 10 pro, i7-4790, 8gb ram with dac-up usb port) with AQ jitterbug at PC and modified up tone regen at dac (linear PSU), back to relaxed (maybe because the usb card had not had a signal applied before?).
Thursday I began some simple mods (Ric Schultz at tweakaudio.com has posted these) to the unit; first was to bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper foil (you could alternatively use a audiophile fuse), wow transparency was now off the charts, couldn't listen long but this was really nice. Next day I opened the top and took out the steel bolts and nuts holding the tranny's in place, I then disconnected the Ac lines from the tranny at the IEC, cut off the shrink wrap and twisted the AC wires then reattached them to the IEC. I did the same for the wires from the tranny to the digital and analog boards, I also added some old cheap damping to the big caps on the analog board (old blu tack, and cork). I closed the top, put it back and ran a signal for a couple of hours before listening. That evening I listened for 6 hours, my notes say "I do not think I have ever enjoyed music more than I did tonight". The stage was the widest and deepest it has ever been, transparency was the best ever, dynamics were the best ever, no glare just pure, hi-end analog like sound. Density of information as I call it; outstanding. Saturday I did a few more mods which many of you may not want to do since it involves removing the voltage selector switch, PC board soldered to the IEC and direct soldering the tranny wires to the IEC, and eliminating the wire from the front on/off switch to the PC board at the IEC (which is no longer there), so if you want to now turn the unit off you have to unplug it. The sound took another step up with even more transparency and a slightly bigger stage, though now maybe on a few tracks I was getting a slight bit of glare.
Sunday was my final tweak, so far, I took some 3M5030 emi/rfi absorbing material and applied it in a few places: placed 1 long piece over both transformers, cut a piece to fit between the LED PC board the the digital section, cut a piece to fit behind the usb card attached to the divider wall, cut a 3"x7" piece to go under the digital board, and a few small pieces to cover some small openings between the boards on the dividers. This was an excellent tweak that took any hint of glare and now gave me that density of information that before only analog could achieve. By that I mean digital has for a while given me a very solid 3D image in the lead center position, palpable presence as I call it, but images to the back and sides and center even tho they had very distinct position and transparency were more 2d'ish. With all these mods done I now had the 3'dish effect on the back and side performers. Their image was distinct in space with great tone and dynamics and body that hereto before was only possible on the better analog set ups. Listening last evening the X20u has now surpassed the 168 hour mark with signal and I am enjoying music more than ever. Relaxed, analog like sound with tremendous 3d palpable presence thru the entire stage. This dac truly loves strings of all types, the attack is there the body and the sustain are the best I have heard. I also hear things that before blended in with the sound, percussion now has taken on new meaning to me as everything is just clearer and has a dynamic envelop that makes it more real. This DAC is a bargain at $870 and I suspect it will hang and even embarrass dac's costing many thousands more. Marty from North Carolina has said his stock unit beat a yggy and Vega. This modded one will crush a stock X20u.
My old dac was a NAD M51 that I had sounding very good in my system, I even wondered how can the X20 be better. I bought it because of the very favorable comments on head-fi, and whats best forum (yes you need to read thru a lot of crap) and the fact that I could up-sample redbook to 2x DSD via usb. I run roon, tidal and HQPlayer on my audio PC with one physically attached HDD. I never thought this dac would be a paradigm shifter for me. I am sure there are better dac's, but for how many thousands more?
So to summarize this very long post, sorry. Stock Gustard is stunning, needs a lot of break in, probably 7 days of continuous signal. To get the most out of it: 1) bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper tape, or use a good audiophile fuse and 2) remove the steel bolts and nuts holding tranny and then cut shrink and twist the ac wires from tranny to IEC and digital and analog boards. Those simple easy to do mods will take your dac to a new level. The other stuff I did is great as well but requires some soldering skills and things that will void a warranty. Ric is continuing the mod process well above this first level. Picture below of dac with bolts removed and twisted ac wires.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139151)
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Twisting wires is a big deal. It's silly they don't come twisted.
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Twisting wires is a big deal. It's silly they don't come twisted.
Agreed, Open the top of most your other gear the wires are twisted. I guess the appearance is neater when they are not twisted. Sure sounds better twisted.
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So to summarize this very long post, sorry. Stock Gustard is stunning, needs a lot of break in, probably 7 days of continuous signal. To get the most out of it: 1) bypass the fuse by wrapping it in copper tape, or use a good audiophile fuse and 2) remove the steel bolts and nuts holding tranny and then cut shrink and twist the ac wires from tranny to IEC and digital and analog boards. Those simple easy to do mods will take your dac to a new level. The other stuff I did is great as well but requires some soldering skills and things that will void a warranty. Ric is continuing the mod process well above this first level. Picture below of dac with bolts removed and twisted ac wires.
Quadman,
Thanks for the post! The only thing that is a bit confusing is that the break in of my X20U took a good 300+ hours, after which many of the things you describe are happening on my unmodded DAC. You started your tweaks after about 48 hours. The question I have is how much, if any, the tweaks would help a fully burned-in X20U?
AC
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AC,
Excellent question on your part!
Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).
I hope there's noticeable improvement.
Michael
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AC,
Excellent question on your part!
Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).
I hope there's noticeable improvement.
Michael
I plan to run my DAC as-is for a few more weeks to get a solid baseline, then test out some of the less invasive tweaks. Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!
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"Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!"
And I sheepishly admit that this is the first time I've heard of Poncho Sanchez.....I'm listening to the 'Live at Montreux' now. I like this....but it is precisely the sort of music that drives my wife batty. She complains about being unable to concentrate with this kind of music. :o Sigh...
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Quadman,
Thanks for the post! The only thing that is a bit confusing is that the break in of my X20U took a good 300+ hours, after which many of the things you describe are happening on my unmodded DAC. You started your tweaks after about 48 hours. The question I have is how much, if any, the tweaks would help a fully burned-in X20U?
AC
Ric Schultz is the one who first performed these mods, he has told me he did not begin modding his Gustard until it had two weeks of continuous burn in on it and the results he has achieved with his 2 week old unit mirror what I have reported. He has his unit in the open and the top off so he can do one thing listen and remove it to see the effect. He is currently well beyond what I have posted and is reporting very favorable results. I do not know as I have just gone as far as stated. I will be trying in the future his mod for replacing the coax cable by soldering a replacement directly to the board rather than going thru a connector, he said that one was huge.
Technically my first mod (wrap fuse in copper foil was at 72 hours) the twist ac wire and remove tranny hardware was at 96 hours. I do believe the dac does need at least a week with continuous signal to fully break in, yes I asked myself the same question. Remove the top of almost any other hi-end piece and you will see the ac wires are twisted, power cord wires are twisted, Putting large magnetic steel bolts in the middle of a toroidal transformer will have an effect on it's sound, super hi-end co's (read expensive) probably use solid brass bolts instead. It is well known that replacing stock fuses with more exotic materials improves sound, bypassing with pure copper improved the sound. I have never had a line level item blow a fuse in over 25 years of audio. Don't bypass your amps fuse that way otherwise you could have a pile of molten metal.
Without trying you will never know, getting a small piece of copper foil to wrap fuse should be easy (or quality audiophile fuse), removing the tranny bolts (10mm wrench) easy and as long as dac sits on shelf trannys won't jump around. Twisting wires is pretty easy but some care must be observed when you remove the wire from the analog board (far right) and snake it thru the opening between the divider and front plate as there is a film like ribbon connector there as well. It is not difficult you just need to be careful. Twist wires then run back thru those same openings and attach to pc board. These first mods will not void a warranty and have a positive effect on the sound. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
btw- Love Poncho :thumb:
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Hello, quadman.
I'm curious - What are the yellow pieces you placed on top of (what appear to be) caps?
and
Why did you use cork on the other caps?
I recall Ric mentioned WA Quantum chips - Have you tried them?
I'm not passing judgement. I've never tried any mods like these, but I am very curious.
Thank you,
Michael
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Hello, quadman.
I'm curious - What are the yellow pieces you placed on top of (what appear to be) caps?
and
Why did you use cork on the other caps?
I recall Ric mentioned WA Quantum chips - Have you tried them?
I'm not passing judgement. I've never tried any mods like these, but I am very curious.
Thank you,
Michael
Michael, That yellow stuff is blu-tac a clay like material that is used to stick lite items to walls etc, Stereophile (Sam T) years ago wrote about using it to damp so I had a bunch from way back and used it since I had it, The cork I also had and used because I had it. No rhyme or reason as to which cap had what. Now that stuff may be doing nothing or just the most minor of things. Ric has used EAR SD40AL to damp caps and other things and he has not damped those big caps, just the rectangular blue ones I believe. He does use quantum chips and reports very good results with those. I don't have but will probably order some and try. I believe he uses on DA chips, the power caps on the analog board (the 4 big ones in a row closet to front panel). I realize my damping stuff is probably placebo or tiny tiny positive and as I did I would rank as the least important tweak, other, better material may have greater or worse effect. Someday I will get around to trying other stuff.
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Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).
I hope there's noticeable improvement.
Michael
Well I quit tracking hours. I feel safe to say there are 300+ hours on the unit. It has been on since it came through the door.
I have mostly used the COAX and OPTIC.
I probably have a little over 100 hours on the OPTIC and I am working on the difference that I can hear. More later :thumb:
The New Digital Power Cord from Triode Powerlabs just went in this morning and I will let it settle for a few days before I offer any thoughts.
And I did hook up a USB feed just now. I think I should have done that before I went to the coast a few days ago. So I guess I will go for a walk as this is pretty rough to listen too. O the things I do for you and you don't even rub my head :evil: :evil:
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"Meanwhile, Poncho Sanchez is sounding mighty fine!"
She complains about being unable to concentrate with this kind of music. :o Sigh...
Isn't that the point?
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O the things I do for you and you don't even rub my head :evil: :evil:
:rotflmao:
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AC,
Aldcoll can chime in as I'm unsure how many hours he has logged on it, but the TWL high current Digital American power cable I purchased from an AC member has finally found its way to his address (many many thanks to Ron for fixing things!).
I hope there's noticeable improvement.
Michael
Well after 24 hours of USB input the sound is pretty darned good for a USB PRINTER cable :scratch:
I have the receiving dock on the look out for a PI USB cable :thumb:
I did add the Triode Wire Labs Digital power cord and did some A/B with my Wywires Blue PC and quit a noticeable enhancement is about all of the areas, dynamic, sound stage and clarity. I will do some of the cymbal listening I have mentioned in past postings.
At this time I am limited in my actual testing as the oldest daughter is visiting so all my time is limited. I have a few more days of her company and I will hope to get some serious listening.:bounce:
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Alan,
You're a buddy and I like you, but I honestly have to draw the line at rubbing your head. :o I can see plying you with fine whiskey :dance: or letting you use my F12G sub while I'm off galavanting around the US. :thumb:
PI Audio Dave informed me my 1.5m USB cable is burning in and will ship on Friday, so it ought to arrive by Thursday or Friday of next week. I imagine it will require additional burn in, but it'll have a good start already.
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Alan,
You're a buddy and I like you, but I honestly have to draw the line at rubbing your head. :o I can see plying you with fine whiskey :dance: or letting you use my F12G sub while I'm off galavanting around the US. :thumb:
PI Audio Dave informed me my 1.5m USB cable is burning in and will ship on Friday, so it ought to arrive by Thursday or Friday of next week. I imagine it will require additional burn in, but it'll have a good start already.
Heck Yes I say :flame: :flame:
The things I do for you list got longer or shorter :scratch:
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Now a SERIOUS question: What dac did the Gustard X20 replace in your setup?
Or what I really would like to know and hear is how does the X20 compare to some of the current HOT models in the same price range of about $700-$2000?
I.E. Yaggi Benchmark, used like a older Lampi or new. A couple tubes or none at all.
Quadman: I will try a few of the simple DIY you mentioned even though I don't own the unit and I was only tasked with BURNING it in and being the receiving agent of the shipment. Any thoughts of removing the volume circuit (if that wouldn't cause a major cost or issue)
I tend to prefer using the Pre Amp so as not to degrade the digital signal since a majority of my listening is with the wife at home and that requires @-40 db to keep the hackles down.
Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX? What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.
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For me, the Gustard is replacing my aging Cambridge Audio Dac Magic Plus. These are still sold new in places, but I often see prices discounted to ~$300 instead of the $499 MSRP. There's nothing 'wrong' with my old DAC; it simply became the weak link in my steadily upgraded system.
I'm eager to try the X20u as a DAC/preamp in the hope it can replace my current preamp. If it cannot replace my preamp, I am hoping the Tortuga Audio LDRx preamp (or possibly another tube preamp) will be the preamp for me.
Alan, I really do appreciate your helping me out like with this. I hope it hasn't created difficulty for you. I figured you'd enjoy the opportunity and at the same time Sue would not consider lopping your head off. :thumb:
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Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX? What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.[/color]
I'm using the AES input from my Aurender. Sounds great, although I did have some dropouts this evening, so not sure if that's the AES, DAC, or just probability.
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Now a SERIOUS question: What dac did the Gustard X20 replace in your setup?
Or what I really would like to know and hear is how does the X20 compare to some of the current HOT models in the same price range of about $700-$2000?
I.E. Yaggi Benchmark, used like a older Lampi or new. A couple tubes or none at all.
Quadman: I will try a few of the simple DIY you mentioned even though I don't own the unit and I was only tasked with BURNING it in and being the receiving agent of the shipment. Any thoughts of removing the volume circuit (if that wouldn't cause a major cost or issue)
I tend to prefer using the Pre Amp so as not to degrade the digital signal since a majority of my listening is with the wife at home and that requires @-40 db to keep the hackles down.
Also anybody used any of the inputs beside the USB, OPTIC or COAX? What has you experience been.
In the next week I will try all of the inputs that I can with current equipment.
The X20u replaced NAD M51 which I thought was sounding great in my system. The X20U clearly is better, especially with the first level of mods (bypass fuse/audiophile fuse, twist AC lines and remove tranny bolt hardware). I have only used USB and Coax input and enjoyed them both.
As to the volume control that is well above my level, my understanding is it is handled in the dac chip and really should be pretty transparent down to at least -18 to -20 db. Other way more knowledgeable people can chime in here.
Marty (nc42acc) did a mini review of the X20U and 3 other dacs here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?20090-DACs-Galore-and-Expectation-Bias
looks like he preferred it the most.
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I started reading about this dac over at head-fi awhile back, I just today looked at the price on Amazon and had a impulse buy moment. Hope it sounds as good as I have read.
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I will take you pictures from Black and white to color panorama :thumb:
Sorry that was toooo easy. It is a great piece and let us know your impressions.
Alan
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Alan, I hope your right. It will be along wait, don't know how long it will take to get here and then along burn-in.
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About 200 hours on the burn in. Just plug it in to a source and turn it on for a seek. Let me know if you want a manual as they don't come with the units. Or at lest that is the common rule.
Alan
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Hi, PeteG.
I'll bet it arrives in under two weeks. At least, that seems to be what most folks experienced.
Talk about long waits. When I ordered mine, I thought I'd be back in Oregon by March 15th, but no. "We" decided to stay in Taiwan until April 11th. I'm very eager to hear my X20! I imagine Alan hasn't minded the extra time too much.
I didn't view all of them, but those are beautiful photographs on your website. :thumb:
Michael
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Let me know if you want a manual as they don't come with the units. Or at lest that is the common rule.
Alan
Thanks Alan, email sent.
I didn't view all of them, but those are beautiful photographs on your website. :thumb:
Michael
Michael, Thank you.
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At some point I would like to use the Is2 input on the X20, I'm using a mac mini would the Gustard U12 (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-u12-32bit-384khz-xmos-usb-digital-audio-interface.html) work for this or just a waste of time and money.
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Pete,
Did you purchase the X20 or the X20u?
The X20u includes the i2S interface. When I was preparing to place an order, I noticed there were a few X20 units (sans the i2S interface) available for less money. I've forgotten the prices.
The interface is not a DAC. Unless I'm mistaken the Gustard U12 is the interface in an external case. If you ordered the X20u, you have no need of the U12.
I found this all very confusing in the beginning, too. There's an X12, an X20, a U12, and an i2S interface card all presented without a whole lot of explanation. What a PITA! I got over my confusion through repeated exposure to all the different sites.
IHIH you.
Michael
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I ordered X20u, was thinking how I could use the i2S input for DSD256/DSD512.
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I don't have a definite answer to this question. IIRC you must have software (Audirvana, Jplayer, HQ Player, or ??) installed. Nc42acc, ACHiPo, or quadman are more knowledgeable, so I suggest asking one of them directly.
I own a Mac Mini, but I don't have any of the above mentioned players. My buying the DAC came about faster than I had anticipated - a moment of weakness it was. :D
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I don't have a definite answer to this question. IIRC you must have software (Audirvana, Jplayer, HQ Player, or ??) installed. Nc42acc, ACHiPo, or quadman are more knowledgeable, so I suggest asking one of them directly.
I own a Mac Mini, but I don't have any of the above mentioned players. My buying the DAC came about faster than I had anticipated - a moment of weakness it was. :D
Or perhaps a moment of clarity and wisdom :)
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Or perhaps a moment of clarity and wisdom :)
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! I continue to be delighted with the Gustard. Just ordered some PCs from Pete--I'm skeptical, but thought I'd give PCs another try now that the resolution of my system is kicked up a few notches with the Darwin Truth ICs and Gustard DAC.
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I ordered X20u, was thinking how I could use the i2S input for DSD256/DSD512.
It is my understanding you can do that with the u12 and X20u if you have the source material at that resolution or an up sampling program such as HQplayer, Jriver, audirvana etc. I have also read where the u12 is a bottleneck/weak point in the chain, but will allow you to stream higher resolution than USB. If you can find a newer driver for the USB; I have seen one forum member on head-fi stream dsd 256 via usb. I cannot or have not found one to do so yet. I up sample everything to DSD128 and it sounds wonderful. The Tanly also can do what the u12 does and do a better job, but Gustard has reversed the wiring of L and R channels on the I2S ports of all their products. So with the Tanly the channels would be reversed, unless you can get them to re-wire the unit to Gustard standard before buying. Here's a bit of a thread on that subject from head-fi
It comes from the different pin assignment of Tanly output and DAC-X20 input for DSD.
Usually, DATA (I2S) is shared with DSD R (DSD), which Tanly follows.
However, DATA (I2S) is shared with DSD L (DSD) in DAC-X20. See the pin assignment of U12 output as well as DAC-X20 input. The combination of U12 and DAC-X20 works correctly both for PCM and DSD.
Since Gustard has changed the pin assignment of U12 output without notice, I believe they made a mistake saying DATA/DSD R and LRCK/DSD L at the beginning.
Actually, there was no hardware change in U12.
Some customers pointed out the channel swap in DSD. Instead of recalling all the U12 units already in the market, they changed the specifications of HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD interface which DAC-X20 and DAC-X12 follow.
DAC-X12 was already in the market as they reaslised the U12 pin assignment was wrong, and the new DAC-X20 had to follow this "new" specifications to keep compatibility with U12.
That is why HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD interface of Gustard is unique and not compatible with any other manufacturer's product.
You should have ordered your Tanly by indicating DAC-X20 HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD input or U12 output (the current one, not the previous one).
I posted the following on Gustard U12 thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/3105#post_12206039
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I'll try the U12, might even modd it a little. My X20 & U12 have shipped but it will take a while to get here.
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Ok, so minor surgery complete and the patient is stable. Stock fuse replaced, power supply wires twisted (you don't need to removed the sleeve), and transformers set free from their mounting bolt and isolated with rubber coasters. Will give it a listen tomorrow morning.
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Ok, so minor surgery complete and the patient is stable. Stock fuse replaced, power supply wires twisted (you don't need to removed the sleeve), and transformers set free from their mounting bolt and isolated with rubber coasters. Will give it a listen tomorrow morning.
Kewl. :wink: I'm very interested to learn what this does. Did you brace the transformers, or are they 'loose'?
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Kewl. :wink: I'm very interested to learn what this does. Did you brace the transformers, or are they 'loose'?
While I was skeptical, there does seem to be improved smoothness and musicality after the mods. Detail doesn't seem changed much. Bass seems a tad fuller and tighter as well, although the soundstage seems to have shrunk laterally a tad. All in all the tweaks seem to be an improvement. I may pick up some nylon bolts for the transformers (they are loosely sitting on a couple rubber coasters I had lying around that were just the right size).
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Are the improvements enough to make you recommend others try them, or is this something that one could choose to not do and just be happy with stock?
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I'm now 'speakerless'. In preparation for our return to the States, I dropped my LS/5-R speakers and their stands off at a good friend's home yesterday. They will enjoy the (huge) improvement in SQ over their Bose HT setup plus they will care for my speakers while I am gone. I didn't relish leaving my speakers exposed to the heat and humidity of summer. They run the AC all summer long. 8)
Oh, wait. I've got my wife's Jambox. Ooooh, sweet.... :(
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Are the improvements enough to make you recommend others try them, or is this something that one could choose to not do and just be happy with stock?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm now 'speakerless'. In preparation for our return to the States, I dropped my LS/5-R speakers and their stands off at a good friend's home yesterday. They will enjoy the (huge) improvement in SQ over their Bose HT setup plus they will care for my speakers while I am gone. I didn't relish leaving my speakers exposed to the heat and humidity of summer. They run the AC all summer long. 8)
Oh, wait. I've got my wife's Jambox. Ooooh, sweet.... :(
Given that it took less than 20 minutes to do the tweaks, there's improvement, and they're reversible I think it's worthwhile. Ric claims the Schurter fuse I used is only 25% of what copper foil yields, but I'm not going to short out the fuse.
That being said, the tweaks are not "mindblowing"--you can definitely live without them.
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Rubber under the trannies will sound rubbery. I recommend double cardboard or one half inch thick plywood or other wood with hole in middle to compensate for the nipple in the chassis. Fuse bypassed or super sounding Audiophile fuse will take it up another level. I would remove the non shrunk heatshrink tubing on the wires that get twisted, as I bet it degrades the sound. Of course, once you remove the sleeving then it can never look totally "stock" if you put it back to stock. But, no one who bought it would look inside and if they did it still looks great.
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Rubber under the trannies will sound rubbery. I recommend double cardboard or one half inch thick plywood or other wood with hole in middle to compensate for the nipple in the chassis. Fuse bypassed or super sounding Audiophile fuse will take it up another level. I would remove the non shrunk heatshrink tubing on the wires that get twisted, as I bet it degrades the sound. Of course, once you remove the sleeving then it can never look totally "stock" if you put it back to stock. But, no one who bought it would look inside and if they did it still looks great.
Ric,
The sheet metal inside the chassis has some pretty sharp corners, so I decided it was best to leave the sleeves around the power supply wires. Given the torroids are potted in "rubber", I'm not sure that an extra 1/8" of silicone from the coasters I repurposed does much one way or another. Given claims of the benefits of pulling the steel bolts from the torroids, I figured it might be worth a shot to get the transformers up off the steel chassis. Regardless I'm not hearing rubbery sound, so things are AOK. :thumb:
AC
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The transformers are not potted in rubber. They are not "potted" at all. Potting refers to sticking them in a pot and then filling the pot with epoxy, wax or other. These are standard toroids....dipped in varnish, wrapped with clear plastic and then the center is filled with epoxy......unless you have something I don't. Also, the chassis is not steel, it is aluminum, but it does help to raise the transformers off the chassis as the chassis is grounded.
I am glad you are enjoying the sound.
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Ric,
The sheet metal inside the chassis has some pretty sharp corners, so I decided it was best to leave the sleeves around the power supply wires. Given the torroids are potted in "rubber", I'm not sure that an extra 1/8" of silicone from the coasters I repurposed does much one way or another. Given claims of the benefits of pulling the steel bolts from the torroids, I figured it might be worth a shot to get the transformers up off the steel chassis. Regardless I'm not hearing rubbery sound, so things are AOK. :thumb:
AC
In regard to the sharp corners you could cut some strips of duck tape and cover those edges. You need to make sure you get the AC wires (all 5 runs) twisted as tight as you can and still be able to connect to the respective points, I don't think that can be done with the shrink on. The schurter fuse is a slight improvement over stock thats why I went with a copper foil bypass. I have never had a fuse blow on a line level component in over 25 years, power amps are a totally other issue. My wife reminded me that she has copper foil tape from her days when she did stained glass so if you want to try some PM me and we can arrange.
I have now followed Ric deeper into the rabbit hole and have replaced the stock diodes on the output board and will soon solder in a custom made coax cable connecting the digital and analog boards. I wish I knew some audiophiles around the knoxville area so I/we could compare this dac to others that cost way more. Based on the sound I am now getting out of this dac I imagine we have to go pretty high up the ladder to find it's master.
For anyone who wants to try the mods but have no skills/desire to do so themselves check out Ric's website tweakaudio.com he offers a level 1 mod package for just over $400. Thats a big jump in sound quality and a total investment in under $1400 (dac + mods). I hope I am allowed to say that. It is a way for the average person to experience these changes, of course it will void your warranty.
Happy listening :thumb:
Be well
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Quadman-if you want to try some amazing products on the Gustard Alan Maher has a new line of products using Graphene (fuse wrap $15-20) and (chips $35 for 5 to be placed on transformers etc).The chips blow away the the WA quantum ones (I know I've had both throughout my system).Because they're Graphene based they take 60-200 hours to burn in.But once they do -WOW!
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Quadman-if you want to try some amazing products on the Gustard Alan Maher has a new line of products using Graphene (fuse wrap $15-20) and (chips $35 for 5 to be placed on transformers etc).The chips blow away the the WA quantum ones (I know I've had both throughout my system).Because they're Graphene based they take 60-200 hours to burn in.But once they do -WOW!
Never heard of him so I googled him and.... quite a strange website with almost no useful information and could find nothing on the graphene stuff, what the heck is it?
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Basically they're slighly smaller than a postage stamp and work VERY well on electrical panel breakers ,transformers,circuit board open traces near power supply etc.i think they work by lowering impedance but I'm not sure.They DO work very well-probably the most effective DIY product for the price I've ever come across
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Can some kind soul email me the darn manual. I have tried the links provided and they just say I have come late to the party. Can't find any manuals. If you PM me I can provide you with my email address. Thanks in advance!!
I just received the Gustard and hooked it up via USB to my CAPS server. I downloaded the xmos stereo usb class 2 driver off the cd that came with the DAC. The driver shows up in my Downloads folder.
However the driver is not showing up in HQ Player nor is the Gustard. No problems with the Hugo that I am borrowing. Both DAC and driver shows up.
Just discovered the remote did not come with a battery. :evil:
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3 volt battery a CR2025 and the on off does not work or was it simply not programed. My email is on the left. There is some configuration needed for the Xmas. Just don't go to xmos.com and download that one. While it is sizeable it only allows you to write the code for your own Version . :scratch:
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Thanks for your reply.
Are you saying the driver on the supplied CD is not the right driver? I thought that I read that others have downloaded this driver and they were good to go.
Thanks for the info on the battery I need to get. :thumb:
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I had to open the manual and do some configuration. Worse part of that was in had to first, ask my wife to read me 5he manual. And from there it went to @#$$÷#* but the DAC worked.
Just remember to nod you head and use a different tone of voice and let her know it all due to her help :tempted:
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Thanks for your reply.
Are you saying the driver on the supplied CD is not the right driver? I thought that I read that others have downloaded this driver and they were good to go.
Thanks for the info on the battery I need to get. :thumb:
The XMOS driver from the CD worked for my Aurender (I didn't need it for my HAL MS3 from Foobar for some reason). Of course MY remote came with a battery :green:
Once you get through the birthing pains, you'll be quite happy I assure you. I've got a Furutech IEC/fuse holder coming as well as a HiFi tuning fuse (and some copper foil just for giggles and grins). The TWL power cord is still breaking in--things sound amazing, but no more amazing than before the PC.
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ACHiPo, which model of Aurender are you using? Any idea why the Gustard X20 works without a driver installed in foobar? Also, are you using WASAPI to go out the door to to Gustard X20?
Scotty
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Well IIRC, I loaded the Gustard X20U DAC USB driver on the MS-3 before sending it to ACHiPo.
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ACHiPo, which model of Aurender are you using? Any idea why the Gustard X20 works without a driver installed in foobar? Also, are you using WASAPI to go out the door to to Gustard X20?
Scotty
Once the XMOS driver is selected as output from my PC any audio signal is sent to the DAC has been my experience. I haven't head of WOOPSI till just now.
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ACHiPo, which model of Aurender are you using? Any idea why the Gustard X20 works without a driver installed in foobar? Also, are you using WASAPI to go out the door to to Gustard X20?
Scotty
I have an S10 Aurender. No idea why the S10 needs a driver while the HAL doesn't? Of course, it coulda been Rich's doing?
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I had to open the manual and do some configuration. Worse part of that was in had to first, ask my wife to read me 5he manual. And from there it went to @#$$÷#* but the DAC worked.
Just remember to nod you head and use a different tone of voice and let her know it all due to her help :tempted:
Thanks for emailing the manual! I realized my mistake after reading it. I just copied the driver file over to my downloads folder without actually opening it up and intalling the driver :duh:
Music is flowing! :thumb:
Ain't computer audio great. I can build a server but can't remember to actually install a driver correctly.
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FINALLY, after buying my X20 two months ago and having it shipped to Alcoll's home (for his enjoyment - or was it torment?), I got to hear my Gustard with my amp and my speakers (and with his system, too).
I am not disappointed. I am very happy with my choice. The soundstage really opens up and everything just sounds so much better than my Cambridge Audio DacMagicPlus DAC.
I'll need more time to experiment, but my initial impression is that I prefer using my tube preamp with the DAC rather than using the digital preamp function in the Gustard. As I have time to pair with different amps, I may or may not change my mind-to be determined.
I have not experimented with different settings and likely will not for the foreseeable future because I will be traveling for the next few months.
Someday, I hope to compare the X20 with DACs that sell for >$2000 to gauge just how far it hits above its price point. For now, I'm delighted with the sound I get for my $800 investment.
Michael
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FINALLY, after buying my X20 two months ago and having it shipped to Alcoll's home (for his enjoyment - or was it torment?), I got to hear my Gustard with my amp and my speakers (and with his system, too).
I am not disappointed. I am very happy with my choice. The soundstage really opens up and everything just sounds so much better than my Cambridge Audio DacMagicPlus DAC.
I'll need more time to experiment, but my initial impression is that I prefer using my tube preamp with the DAC rather than using the digital preamp function in the Gustard. As I have time to pair with different amps, I may or may not change my mind-to be determined.
I have not experimented with different settings and likely will not for the foreseeable future because I will be traveling for the next few months.
Someday, I hope to compare the X20 with DACs that sell for >$2000 to gauge just how far it hits above its price point. For now, I'm delighted with the sound I get for my $800 investment.
Michael
If you do end up making it over here you can compare it to my Sony HAP, but because I have the HAP I have no reason for a server/streamer setup and so the computer side of my setup might not be totally ideal... but it should give a good idea.
It sounds like the X20 should be comparable if not a little better! :)
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Dave,
Now that we are back home, my wife and I have begun taking a hard look at available cargo space in my Tacoma vs. what our imaginations had conjured. I may have to ground ship it to you if there is too little space.
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Got my X20u/U12 all set-up with about 200hrs on it, so far I like the U12>I2S>X20 more than X20 w/usb input. Only mod is a HiFi Supreme fuse in both U12/X20. The sound I'm getting is way above its price, I'm very impressed with it. I did want to play dsd256/dsd512 using the U12 usb interface but using my mac mini I only can get dsd64/dsd128, I can use bootcamp/Win10/driver to get dsd512 to work but I'm happy so far, might look into it later. You know I have to throw-in a picture :wink:
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/peteg-photos/DSC01788.jpg~original)
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...I may have to ground ship it to you if there is too little space.
Well Michael, if you're gonna do that you might as well start a tour. And if you're gonna start a tour you might as well send it to me. :green:
I would take very good care of it and see how it compares to a Lampizator L4 and for fun I could get a SR Black fuse to put in it for yours to keep if you like it...just a thought. :shh:
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Well, mods are done (for now). I finally made it to the hardware store to get nylon hardware, and used it to secure the toroids on top of cardboard spacers (replacing the coasters I had been using). I've installed a HiFi Tuning Gold fuse, and gave all the contacts a swipe with Caig before reconnecting everything. It's hard to see, but I was able to get 2-3 twists per inch even with the sleeve--it's quite loose and the wires can be twisted easily within the sleeve.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141473)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141474)
I picked up a Furutech IEC, but decided I am happy enough with the sound as it is to not risk making it worse with additional tweaks at this point. The TWL power cords are sounding quite nice, and their burn-in process has been pretty enlightening for a skeptic like me--not only do they make a difference, but I could hear things get better, then worse, then finally significantly better over the course of 300 hours. Pretty bizarre, and I still don't understand it, but I will be ordering a couple more PCs from Pete so all my audio gear has them.
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Got my X20u/U12 all set-up with about 200hrs on it, so far I like the U12>I2S>X20 more than X20 w/usb input. Only mod is a HiFi Supreme fuse in both U12/X20. The sound I'm getting is way above its price, I'm very impressed with it. I did want to play dsd256/dsd512 using the U12 usb interface but using my mac mini I only can get dsd64/dsd128, I can use bootcamp/Win10/driver to get dsd512 to work but I'm happy so far, might look into it later. You know I have to throw-in a picture :wink:
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/peteg-photos/DSC01897_zpsdkqw4ldr.jpg~original)
Looks nice Pete!
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Looks nice Pete!
AC, Thanks. Sounds nice too.
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I keep forgetting one other tweak--Daedelus Isolation Devices. No idea what they do for the DAC as I've used them from the get-go, but they help with my tube amps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141476)
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I keep forgetting one other tweak--Daedelus Isolation Devices. No idea what they do for the DAC as I've used them from the get-go, but they help with my tube amps.
When I was at RMAF last year Lou had a little demo with his DID's and the only piece he placed them under was the dac. I could hear an instant improvement in clarity and focus. I'm sure it was Dan's dac but don't remember the model, or if it was tubed of not.
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Been breaking in a Gustard X20U for about a week and so far have been pleasantly surprised. Of course the only way to get to DSD 256/512 is for a DCC. The problem for me is that the only option without getting phase inversion is to go with the U12 DCC. Not that the U12 is bad...just that there are more interesting options out there.
While I like the sound at DSD128, I bought the DAC with the intention of getting 256/512 out of it. There is a DCC to be released in May that comes in at $300 with the F-1 XMOS USB Digital Interface Module XU208 U8 upgraded version. I may contact them to see if they would consider adapting the I2s for the Gustard.
Better yet, I wish someone could come up with a i2s cable or box that can be easily adapted.
Please correct me if I am wrong on the above statements.
Regards,
Randy
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Randy, thanks for the good info.
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guys, im not sure i understand the tranny mod that you are talking about. first what is different in X20 and how the trannys are bolted to the chassis compared with other DACs? secondly how does removing the bolt and placing cardboard under it changes anything? I dont understand the rationale!
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Help Isolate some of the AC stuff making a nice playing field for all.
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guys, im not sure i understand the tranny mod that you are talking about. first what is different in X20 and how the trannys are bolted to the chassis compared with other DACs? secondly how does removing the bolt and placing cardboard under it changes anything? I dont understand the rationale!
We're following Ric Schultz's lead. Twisting the wires makes perfect sense--it's standard practice for noise reduction. As for eliminating the conductive bolt and raising the transformers off the chassis, I have no idea how or why those tweaks should work. I honestly can't hear much difference--the fuse and PC seemed to have the biggest effect, and those were pretty subtle.
I figured I'd try anything that was reversible and safe.
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Just a quick listening update: I was in the mood for a little Art Pepper this morning, so I selected "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section" on the Aurender and went about my business of pulling a couple espresso shots, checking work email, etc. I found it tough to concentrate, as the music kept pulling me in. While not sounding particluarly "real" (as in I'm not in the studio and they're not in my office--I was listening nowhere close to live levels anyway), Philly Joe Jones' stick and brush work grabbed my attention and my toe was tappin'.
At this point I have no idea how much has to do with the DAC, the cabling, tweaks, or even the time of day or my frame of mind. I do know, however, I'm quite happy with the sound I'm getting.
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I have now had my X20u for over 6 weeks and I wanted to update my experience with this vastly underrated DAC. My X20u is no longer stock as I have performed almost all of the Mods Ric does in his level 1 mod package (tweakaudio.com) click on Gustard Mods. Some of these mods are very easy to perform and just require opening the top and some common sense, others require a good soldering iron and good soldering skills and patience and will void your warranty, but really are you going to send this dac back to China to get repaired? If you want to take this DAC to its highest level I suggest getting the level 1 Mod package.
Let me preface any further comments with how I listen to this DAC. I built a dedicated windows 10 pro audio computer, with a small 120 Gb SSD for OS and audio programs, 8 Gb ram, and an i7-4790 processor. The motherboard is a gigabyte H81n with a dac-up usb port. My music is stored on an external USB attached HDD. I use an AQ Jitterbug at the dac-up usb port and a modest usb cable from the jitterbug to an uptone regen at the dac input. For audio programs I use Roon integrated with HQPlayer and Tidal. I up sample all music signals to DSD128. Looking forward to the day I can do DSD 256 and hopefully DSD512.
I am blessed to have a very high-resolution stereo playback system. Both Vinyl and digital based. The TT is a well-known English table with a $5K cartridge. I have been a friend with Wally, from Wally set up tools for over 25 years and I am highly skilled in TT and cartridge set up. My vinyl is very good. Digital is as described above. Speakers are actually designed by Wally with input from many very knowledgeable engineers. They use Audio technology drivers and Raal ribbon tweeter. They can extend down to 20Hz and are very transparent. My amps are the wonderful Wyetech 211C, single ended and capable of 18 watts per channel with 70-watt peaks. The speakers are very amp friendly and we run only the mids and tweeter with the SE amp, the bass is handled by a 250 watt custom SS amp, we also EQ only the bass signal. I have been an audiophile for over 25 years with many systems and rooms over the years; this is not my first rodeo.
I apologize for the long preamble, but felt it necessary to back up what I am about to say and so you can understand how I run this dac. This DAC in its level 1 modification state is a paradigm shift in my listening experiences. I now experience music at a level, I previously thought took mid 6 figures. The transparency, layering of information, palpable presence of ALL performers, geometrical size of sound stage (both width and depth), tonality, dynamics, density of information… go down the check list are all there. I performed the last of level 1 mod about 10 days ago and since all listening has left me gob smacked (love that word). I hear everything; even that percussionist in the far back of the orchestra has a presence, depth and clarity that before were just a blend with the music. A perfect example I was listening to a Sibelius Violin concerto, conducted by Walter Hendl with the Chicago symphony and Jascha Heifetz on Violin, this was a reference LP for me, one I have heard hundreds of times. About half way thru a tympani comes in and with the LP you were clearly aware of it and its location. The musician keeps striking the tympani softly as the movement progresses, on vinyl you heard the soft rumble of the tympani to the right and deep in the stage. With the Gustard you are now aware of each soft strike of the mallet on the skin of the tympani and the expansion of air within the kettle; layers and layers of information. My jaw dropped as I never heard that level of resolution and presence before thru any other system. I hear the same type of effect on jazz, rock, blues what ever. Musicians that before blended into the musical soundscape now had presence and body with precise location and clarity. I now hear music in an entirely different way, paradigm shift.
Now I have not compared this dac to other mega or mid-priced dac’s as Knoxville has a very quiet audiophile group, if one at all. Best I can do is compare it to my LP playback system and previous dac the NAD M51. On poorer and older CD’s originals from the 80’s the LP still has a edge, but it is close. On better digital recordings I have to give it to the DAC, soundstage size is superior, Transparency is superior, dynamics are superior, location within the sound field is superior and yes even tonality I give an edge to the DAC.
I have to ask myself, why am I shouting to the high heavens about a DAC made in China, that has no dealer network or support for in the USA. I guess it comes down to value and bang for the buck and my excitement about its performance. This dac proved to be a paradigm shift for me, yet because of it’s price it will NOT be taken seriously by audiophiles. How could it possibly be as good as the Vega, yggy, PS Audio Direct Stream on and on….. without comparing I don’t know, except no other audio product in my 25+ years and trade shows have shifted my perception on music playback like this piece does. I believe Marty when he did his mini dac shootout and called the Gustard (and this is stock) the best and that the Vega just missed the little details. The Gustard does not miss the little details.
My next step is to try to get up to DSD512 and that new F1 card based on the new Xmos xCORE200 series chip that has been released sounds very promising. There is supposed to be an all in one DDC coming out in May based on this card that may give the Gustard a chance to play DSD512 via I2S with a board that is SOTA. I can’t wait to see where this goes. Then we can go play with the T&A Dac 8 DSD and see where the Gustard stands. It is WAY above its price point.
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I am glad the Gustard has been a positive experience. I have to give the credit to Stuart over at Head-Fi.org for his review that sparked my interest. He was dead on with his assessment.
Marty
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I am glad the Gustard has been a positive experience. I have to give the credit to Stuart over at Head-Fi.org for his review that sparked my interest. He was dead on with his assessment.
Marty
Marty,
Thank you for your advocacy. I'm delighted with the purchase!
AC
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Received an Uptone Amber Regen last night and installed it. Not a night and day difference, and in fact I really can't hear a difference, but viscerally the music seems more engaging and pleasing. Details jump out, grab your hand, and twirl you around. Yeah baby!
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Received an Uptone Amber Regen last night and installed it. Not a night and day difference, and in fact I really can't hear a difference, but viscerally the music seems more engaging and pleasing. Details jump out, grab your hand, and twirl you around. Yeah baby!
Leave it in for a week or 2 then take it out and see the effect on the music. Your description tells us there was a nice difference. I almost cried when I had to take it out of my system due to a failure of the regen. That was back when the macbook air was my audio pc and NAD was my dac. I was shocked how thin the sound became.
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Has anyone used an Intona USB isolator with the X20? Also I wonder if Gustard will come out with a new USB XMOS XU208 digital interface (U20).
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I have this DAC and sent it to Ric Schultz for the Level 1 mods. He has had it for a couple weeks now so I should be getting it back soon. I will post impressions of the upgrade and sound in comparison to my current NAD M51 DAC.
My system includes a MacMini running Audirvana Plus. At some point this Summer, I will try another type of server. A couple questions I have are:
1) Do users find a noticeable difference playing PCM versus DSD on this DAC?
2) To play DSD, do you need to download drivers on the DAC?
I have no DSD files and am completely clueless on it. The hype on Computer Audiophile about HQPlayer is intriguing but it seems like it takes some computing power to use it well. For what it's worth, I am currently using the Gustard U12 converter so it seems like I wouldn't have to worry about the phase inversion issue if Intried to play DSD through it.
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I have this DAC and sent it to Ric Schultz for the Level 1 mods. He has had it for a couple weeks now so I should be getting it back soon. I will post impressions of the upgrade and sound in comparison to my current NAD M51 DAC.
My system includes a MacMini running Audirvana Plus. At some point this Summer, I will try another type of server. A couple questions I have are:
1) Do users find a noticeable difference playing PCM versus DSD on this DAC?
2) To play DSD, do you need to download drivers on the DAC?
Listening to my X20 I do like to upsample everything to DSD128, using a U12 feeding the I2s input (HDMI) on the X20. Your Mac will not need a driver.
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Thanks for the info. One thing I may try first is to download some DSD files and play them through Audirvana using the U12 with the I2s input.
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Just wanted to say what I told Randy: if you are going to use something like HQPlayer and upsample EVERYTHING to DSD512 then no need to be concerned about the non-standard pin/wiring on the HDMI/I2S port (and reducing your choices to Gustard's own fine DCC). As long as you don't play PCM through I2S then simply reverse your leads (any one of them, dac, preamp or speaker...I'd do DAC into preamp so other inputs would be non-reversed).
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As mentioned earlier, I am a complete novice on DSD. However, it seems that getting a powerful machine to upsample to 512 might hold a lot of promise. My original plan was to streamline my 2009 MacMini setup to a NAS or the upcoming sonic transporter and using something like a Sonore microRendu (when available).
Upsa piling would require a lot more firepower than that. I am going to be interested to hear more impressions on DSD up-sampling with this DAC.
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As mentioned earlier, I am a complete novice on DSD. However, it seems that getting a powerful machine to upsample to 512 might hold a lot of promise. My original plan was to streamline my 2009 MacMini setup to a NAS or the upcoming sonic transporter and using something like a Sonore microRendu (when available).
Upsa piling would require a lot more firepower than that. I am going to be interested to hear more impressions on DSD up-sampling with this DAC.
My i7-4790 based windows 10 pro machine is using around 14% of the cpu when doing DSD128, an i5-based machine should be able to handle DSD128 albeit at a much higher CPU usage rate. Been a long time since I used Audirvana, can't you up sample to DSD with that? And for just PCM up sampling why are you using the u12? USB from the Mac to x20 can do all PCM rates, the u12 stock is a bottleneck and compromises the sound of the dac. I get it if you are trying to do DSD256 or 512 then the u12 is currently needed. But for your usage just run USB to dac with no u12. DSD is more analog like compared to PCM.
Also cannot recommend the UPtone regen enough it really helps both the M51 and x20.
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Thanks for the comments. These are all good points. I am using the Regen and it is definitely of some help. The NAD is slightly better through the U12 than through a direct USB connection so that is why it is in the chain. When I get the Gustard back, I will have to test it with and without the U12. It would be great to get a component out of the chain.
I will have to explore DSD through Audirvana. I know it can play native DSD files but Indon't think it can upsample to DSD.
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My i7-4790 based windows 10 pro machine is using around 14% of the cpu when doing DSD128, an i5-based machine should be able to handle DSD128 albeit at a much higher CPU usage rate. Been a long time since I used Audirvana, can't you up sample to DSD with that? And for just PCM up sampling why are you using the u12? USB from the Mac to x20 can do all PCM rates, the u12 stock is a bottleneck and compromises the sound of the dac. I get it if you are trying to do DSD256 or 512 then the u12 is currently needed. But for your usage just run USB to dac with no u12. DSD is more analog like compared to PCM.
Also cannot recommend the UPtone regen enough it really helps both the M51 and x20.
The Uptone Amber seems to help a bit, although it's definitely just a "coloring within the lines" effect--no definable sonic change, just meatier. Think I may try out the Intona for giggles and grins, both alone and in conjunction with the Amber.
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The Uptone Amber seems to help a bit, although it's definitely just a "coloring within the lines" effect--no definable sonic change, just meatier. Think I may try out the Intona for giggles and grins, both alone and in conjunction with the Amber.
I believe you use the Aurrender, rather than PC and I would not expect as much of an impact as you would get going straight from PC to X20 with the regen.
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I believe you use the Aurrender, rather than PC and I would not expect as much of an impact as you would get going straight from PC to X20 with the regen.
I'm a bit surprised (and skeptical) I hear any difference based on the Aurender's topology, plus the X20 is supposed to have improved jitter treatment on its input (I think).
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Guys i did look at the specs on amazon and thee is also no spes on worthy audio website so my question is does X20U have femto clock? if so is there only one or one per channel?
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Here is the most info from the web. Possibly the manufacturer?
The manual link has never worked for me. I did manage to get a PDF from them. IF you send me a email I will pass it along.
Alan
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html#comment_html
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Will be doing most of the level I mods this coming weekend, also the Intona industrial isolator will be here . I will start going directly to the X20u, till I'm able to do DSD256/512. Wet and cold weekend so hopefully a nice long listening session.
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So I am planning to do all (most 8)) of the Level 1 mods that Ric suggests.
Do you just wrap the copper foil around the entire fuse and then pop it back in?
Thanks
Randy
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yes, wrap the whole fuse is good, don't over lap as it may be to big for holder. I cut a piece 19mm x 15mm (fuse is 20mm long and circumference is 15.7mm). Also clean the copper a bit with dexoit or similar if you have before applying.
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yes, wrap the whole fuse is good, don't over lap as it may be to big for holder. I cut a piece 19mm x 15mm (fuse is 20mm long and circumference is 15.7mm). Also clean the copper a bit with dexoit or similar if you have before applying.
Thanks!
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Got the Intona in from Germany hooked it up to the USB of the X20u and it communicates beautifully, matter of fact when I click on a song it starts quicker than before. As far as SQ I will let it burn-in awhile but very positive in the short time it's been in the system, especially very subtle notes are now very clean/clear/precise.
I did most of the mods, didn't wrap the fuse just put in a HiFi Supreme fuse. Found some nylon nut & bolts at Lowes. I'm very happy with the sound so far, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this dac.
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Hopefully you put two thicknesses of cardboard underneath the trannies.....to me gives the best sound. Of course, you make cardboard donuts so the chassis nipples are still clear in center. Did you remove all AC connectors and switches and AC filter?.....and twist wires?
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Got the Intona in from Germany hooked it up to the USB of the X20u and it communicates beautifully, matter of fact when I click on a song it starts quicker than before. As far as SQ I will let it burn-in awhile but very positive in the short time it's been in the system, especially very subtle notes are now very clean/clear/precise.
I did most of the mods, didn't wrap the fuse just put in a HiFi Supreme fuse. Found some nylon nut & bolts at Lowes. I'm very happy with the sound so far, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this dac.
If it works like the Regen then it helps a lot. So what did you do for the mods, audiophile fuse, twist AC wires, and remove steel bolts for tranny anything else?
I have my buddies stock Gustard burring in since last Friday, Wed. night it had over 120 hours on it, I listened for 1 1/2 hours then switched to my level 1 x20u. Stock the x20 is really good and I was really enjoying the music, thinking, gee how much better are the mods. Then after switch I played same songs at same level, foolish me. Modded is another level, much more analog like, more transparent, bigger sound stage that involves you more in the music. I was grinning ear to ear thinking about the amazing level this dac has reached. :thumb:
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I put wood under the transformers/nylon nuts & bolts and twisted all wires, I did not remove AC connectors, switch or filter.
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I put wood under the transformers/nylon nuts & bolts and twisted all wires, I did not remove AC connectors, switch or filter.
That's basically the same level of mods I did (used cardboard rather than wood), plus the TWL American Digital PC. I'm happy with how things sound, although I am toying with the idea of adding an Intona box before the USB cable with the Regen right before the X20U just for kicks.
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Only Quadman has done "most of level one mods" He has yet to try the WA Quantum Chips but has ordered them, then he will have all of level one mods plus some damping and shielding that he did on his own. I sent him my digital cable to install (that he modded slightly as it was shorted) and he installed the exact diodes I use...damped the way I suggested. So far, you guys have done about half of only the AC mods. You do the rest of the AC mods and you will get another whole level. What I am doing now is bypassing the entire fuse holder and fuse. I use the AC receptacle as if it had no fuse in it. I solder the hot wires from the transformers (white) as close to the incoming hot AC pin as possible. This sounds even better than a great fuse and holder. I am also damping the AC receptacle with EAR SD40AL (available from Michael Percy). I use this same material to damp the two blue caps on the output board (pieces of damping going across the top of the caps and to the side and inside brace of the DAC). I found the hardwired and damped stock receptacle to be better sounding than the Furutech Fi-10. More airy and extended.....maybe it is because it has less mass? Keep tweaking! It just gets better and better!
BTW....double layer of cardboard under the trannies sounds much better than one half inch plywood I tried.....also do not tighten the nylon hardware....just use it to keep the transformers from moving around. You do not need the nylon hardware if you are careful when moving it around. I have mine without cover (tweak nut that I am) so don't need no stinkin plastic bolts....he he. I glue (very thin layer of Amazing Goop) two cardboard donuts together and then use thin double stick tape to hold them down lightly to the chassis.
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I"m pretty sure you're certifiable. :duh:
I sure do hope people don't bypass the fuse which is there to protect them. That's just asinine to actually encourage that.
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If people want a fuse, they can have a fuse.....I have no problem with that.
However, line level transistor gear usually has no more than 50 watt transformers.......the most power you could ever get through them would be to completely short the secondaries. If you did this then the transformer would maybe draw 1000 watts for a few seconds and not blow your circuit breaker....however, in that same few seconds it would get so hot it would just open a primary winding on the transformer (I know, I have done this).....just a puff of smoke and then nothing. The primary winding on a small transformer is like 30 gauge wire.....NO flames, no fire.....just a puff of smoke. The transformer is its own fuse! Now if you had a rag soaked with gasoline on top while you shorted the secondaries.....you then would certainly get a nice fire. Most people I know do not have the cover off their equipment and have gasoline soaked rags on their transformers. Line level transistor gear is very, very free from even ever blowing a fuse. When is the last time any of you ever heard of anyone who blew a fuse in a transistor line level piece of gear????!!!!????.....really, in nearly 40 years I have never heard of it. Have you blown a fuse in a transistor DAC, preamp, tuner, CD player, transport? If you have, you are the first I have even heard of. Dynaco sold hundreds of thousands? of PAS2/3 tubed preamps that had the power cord soldered directly to the power transformer (before UL ratings obviously). Don't think they even burned anyones house down.
Most people are way more conservative than me.....however, I feel very confident that having no fuse in a line level (transistor) piece of gear is perfectly safe......I am sure the EEs will have a fit with this statement.....but just try the experiment that I did ....you will see...you cannot start a fire....unless you have extremely flammable material on top of the transformer.
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unless you have extremely flammable material on top of the transformer.
Cardboard that you're recommending under the transformer is flammable and only gets more flammable with time. :duh:
I'll disagree with everything you wrote above. It's about safety Ric. Period.
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Just try the experiment. Put an AC current meter on a 50 watt transformer (sitting on cardboard) and also put a temperature sensor on it. Then short the secondaries and then plug it directly into the wall. See how many seconds it takes for the primary winding to open and how much current it draws and how hot it gets....then you will know something. Right now you are just knee jerking. And what are the chances that any 50 watt transformer will ever have its secondaries completely shorted (not opened but shorted...think about it)......probably about the same as winning the lotto. Really, never heard of it.
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Guys, please avoid personal attacks in the thread.
Thanks
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Why modify something that sounds so good? I have all the items to mod Custard #1 but I am afraid it will make it worse.
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Why modify something that sounds so good? I have all the items to mod Custard #1 but I am afraid it will make it worse.
That's what audiophiles do - try to get that extra few percent of better sound (and that is usually a moving target). Don't have the DAC (at least not yet) but have been following the thread with interest.
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Custard DAC's and flaming transformers. This is getting interesting! :o :icon_lol:
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Custard DAC's and flaming transformers. This is getting interesting! :o :icon_lol:
LOL :lol:
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Phil once you try Custard you will never go back. Just do it, it's only $800!
That's what audiophiles do - try to get that extra few percent of better sound (and that is usually a moving target). Don't have the DAC (at least not yet) but have been following the thread with interest.
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What dish is that? Flaming Custard, sounds like bananas foster.
Custard DAC's and flaming transformers. This is getting interesting! :o :icon_lol:
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There's nothing wrong with hot equipment, unless the police find you :green:
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/450741785-two-eco-friendly-cardboard-audio-speakers-on-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=lsIpVikDEAJlX7mkMb5c3HWFOwzjowCHoweBbbh%2FVt8cpmqcSRDVm6ZgXVAaPFT6)
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The problem comes inter-winding insulation failure on the primary side of the transformer. The voltage is higher and this increases the likelihood of a fault occurring. That being said the AC line fuse is there to prevent a fire from happening in the first place.
So far no piece of electronics gear I have ever seen has been designed to be incombustible
and fireproof. When I have built electronics projects using toriodal transformers they have come with neoprene mounting gaskets for the top and the bottom of the transformer. An upgrade would be a sorbothane gasket which you can cut out from sheets of sorbothane which can be ordered online from McMaster Carr in various thicknesses and Shore durometers. http://www.mcmaster.com/
Another mod would be to replace the steel mounting bolt with a brass bolt which is non-magnetic.
Scotty
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Why modify something that sounds so good? I have all the items to mod Custard #1 but I am afraid it will make it worse.
NC,
None of the changes made my X20 worse, but I don't think you're missing eargasmically mind blowing sound without them. They are not even a cherry on top of the sundae, more like an extra sprinkle or 3. I definitely don't think they're worth burning the house down, regardless of how low the probability is.
AC
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There's nothing wrong with hot equipment, unless the police find you :green:
(http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/450741785-two-eco-friendly-cardboard-audio-speakers-on-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=lsIpVikDEAJlX7mkMb5c3HWFOwzjowCHoweBbbh%2FVt8cpmqcSRDVm6ZgXVAaPFT6)
LMAO :thumb: :rotflmao:
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I am just being over dramatic and making excuses for not jumping in and modding Custard #1. Calling for rain tomorrow, might be the time to hit the workbench.
NC,
None of the changes made my X20 worse, but I don't think you're missing eargasmically mind blowing sound without them. They are not even a cherry on top of the sundae, more like an extra sprinkle or 3. I definitely don't think they're worth burning the house down, regardless of how low the probability is.
AC
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I am just being over dramatic and making excuses for not jumping in and modding Custard #1. Calling for rain tomorrow, might be the time to hit the workbench.
Well then, time to get busy!
:whip:
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I'd vote for keeping the fuse and upgrading to Audio Magic, Furutech, etc... The effects fuses can have range quite a bit though. I recently talked to a couple people who have tested a lot of fuses and AM and Furutech were the best in their opinion, but SR black was not involved which I've heard a lot of positive comments on. Neither liked SR red at all.
As far as mods, they usually make a small difference but are often overstated. What is one person's small almost unnoticeable change is another person's night-and-day change. It's all relative and in the ear/brain mechanism of the listener.
My guess would be that few could tell minor mods from bone stock in a blind test, but it's all in good fun and experiments are good. Too many people make up their mind without any experience and with incomplete or wrong information (and not just about audio). IMO it's best to keep an open mind.
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You could probably get a bigger improvement from swapping out opamgs in current to volt stage, assuming that it is not also a discrete circuit.
Scotty
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Can anyone report what OPAMP's appear to be used in the Gustard? Perhaps it could be easily converted for rolling opamps.
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Can anyone report what OPAMP's appear to be used in the Gustard? Perhaps it could be easily converted for rolling opamps.
Full balance Discrete components Analog Line.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142207)
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Sorry, no. The output stage of the Gustard has three stages in series. The first stage is single surface mount I-V converter op amps for each phase (AD4898-1). Excellent sound. You will not do better in an op amp. Second stage is OPA 1632 differential amplifier (also an op amp). Third stage is discrete buffer. Changing the op amps for I-V conversion would be a waste of time. Been there. What you need is a fully discrete output stage....my first try will be tomorrow. This output stage will also have its own separate regulators and power supply parts separate from those powering the stock output stage. Hopefully, we get better sound. The stock output stage is REALLY GREAT!
You can see two of the IV converter op amps in the fore ground in the above pic and straight back and in between the middle two red Wima caps you can see an even tinier 1632 on each channel.
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As Ric mentioned I maybe the only person currently who has a very close to level 1 mod and did the upgrades in stages listening after each. I also have a friends STOCK Gustard here which has been burning in for more than a week. I can compare that unit to my level 1 unit. Friday evening the stock X20u had over 170 hours on it, I listened to it for a couple of hours; IT is a really nice dac as it is stock and you would not think you are missing anything at all. It checks most of the boxes Tonality, transparency, huge stage, solid palpable well defined images, dynamic and great bass. I was enjoying it, my only concern was a very slight digititis which if you had a full SS system and brightish speakers may be annoying. (All listening was with dedicated audio window PC i7 based, Roon and HQplayer, AQ Jitterbug, wire world USB cable (red one), USB regen with stock PSU, Gustard. Upsampling all music to DSD128). Then I switched to the level 1 mod Gustard, same level and same songs that I played in the last 20 minutes. Immediately images had tighter focus, there was more transparency (quieter background), the stage was wider and deeper, and image location was more specific. Bass was tighter and had better definition, the air in the body of a double bass was more distinct, the softest tympani taps were distinct as individual strikes (as opposed to a rumble) and the air in the tympani kettle was more apparent. There was a more relaxed feeling much like going from really good digital to really good analog. It seemed like there was more energy, but my writing skills and vocabulary cannot begin to describe that effect. Music was just more involving with the L1 X20u, more real you don't want to turn it off, just keep listening.
Now is this a night and day difference comparable to go from $300 bookshelf speakers to $10K speakers, no. To me it is a very significant change that involves me more in the music in a way I have not been involved before. I mentioned much earlier in this thread about a paradigm shift. The L1 is what I talk about. The Stock Gustard is just a REALLY nice audio component that I very happily would own and enjoy until that next great unit comes along that involves me more in the music. The L1 does that and more, paradigm shift. I am stunned such a modest cost unit can deliver such an experience.
I just started the Level 1 mod's to my friends Gustard. Today I pulled the steel hardware from the tranny's and placed them up on 1/4" thick basswood. I removed all shrink and twisted all 5 runs of the AC lines and I wrapped the fuse in copper foil. I will report on it's progress Tuesday as my next serious listening session is Monday evening.
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I removed all shrink and twisted all 5 runs of the AC lines and I wrapped the fuse in copper foil.
:duh:
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:duh:
We are free in America, that is my choice. You can spend big $$$$ on audiophile fuse and sleep better. Like Ric said in OVER 25 years as a audiophile I have NEVER had a SS line level item blow a fuse. I am comfortable with this. You are not. We get it. :D
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Sorry, no. The output stage of the Gustard has three stages in series. The first stage is single surface mount I-V converter op amps for each phase (AD4898-1). Excellent sound. You will not do better in an op amp. Second stage is OPA 1632 differential amplifier (also an op amp). Third stage is discrete buffer. Changing the op amps for I-V conversion would be a waste of time. Been there. What you need is a fully discrete output stage....my first try will be tomorrow. This output stage will also have its own separate regulators and power supply parts separate from those powering the stock output stage. Hopefully, we get better sound. The stock output stage is REALLY GREAT!
You can see two of the IV converter op amps in the fore ground in the above pic and straight back and in between the middle two red Wima caps you can see an even tinier 1632 on each channel.
Hi Ric. i have another Chincese DAC with the picture attached bellow, do you think i can the an opamp upgrade on it? I mean I know it is just a direct replacement. i want to know what to replace it with. what is the best option?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142234)
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There is a thread on Headfi on that DAC. One guy replaced the first op amps with Sonic Imagery 994 discrete op amps (a little over $200 the pair with shipping) and the second opamps with latest Burson V5 jobbies ($130 pair plus shipping). He did a bunch of other tweaks as well. Have fun!
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There is a thread on Headfi on that DAC. One guy replaced the first op amps with Sonic Imagery 994 discrete op amps (a little over $200 the pair with shipping) and the second opamps with latest Burson V5 jobbies ($130 pair plus shipping). He did a bunch of other tweaks as well. Have fun!
thanks for the heads up man, appreciate it.
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what are those variable reisstors? i assume they set bias. would teaking them be advisable and if so how would i go about doing that. i do own a multimeter but i have no idea what to to go about it.
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Please read the Headfi thread. They talk about the variable resistors and changing them to expensive Vishays.
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Hi
i haven't open up mine yet,what size of Fuse doe it have?
Thank you
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Hi
i haven't open up mine yet,what size of Fuse doe it have?
Thank you
Small slow-blow, 1A.
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Hi
i haven't open up mine yet,what size of Fuse doe it have?
Thank you
5x20mm, 1A, sloblow
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I just started the Level 1 mod's to my friends Gustard. Today I pulled the steel hardware from the tranny's and placed them up on 1/4" thick basswood. I removed all shrink and twisted all 5 runs of the AC lines and I wrapped the fuse in copper foil. I will report on it's progress Tuesday as my next serious listening session is Monday evening.
Last night I listened to the slightly modded dac and it has improved some (211 hours). Tighter images, slightly quieter background, touch more transparency. I really enjoyed listening to it. Then I went to my level 1 dac, lets just say the slightly modded one has a ways to go before I think paradigm shift. The next set of mods are scheduled for this weekend when I finish the AC mod (remove pc board soldered to IEC and solder Tranny wires directly to IEC, remove wire lead from IEC PC board to front pc board this eliminates the ac line filtering and on/off switch). I will also damp the IEC with some Ear material that Ric has mentioned. I plan to leave the fuse (wrapped) in the circuit so anyone, even me, could swap to a audiophile fuse down the road.
Next report on progress will be next Tuesday. This is fun :dance:
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Some exciting news over at head-fi on the gustard x20 thread, on page 48, post 712 @bitcars details how to get the X20u to play DSD256 with the DIYinHK 3.34 Xmos driver. I followed his instructions except I turned off digital signing in Win 10. Installation went perfectly and my first attempt to play DSD256 did not, my dac showed DSD128 but the PC's CPU was at mid 20's % so it was up sampling. Then I re-read some of Jussi's set up notes (for HQPlayer) I had copied from other forums and he states if you have a native asio DSD driver then under SDM pack in settings you can select none (with the 3.2 driver I had selected SDM). It worked and now the dac showed DSD256 and the CPU usage was in the low 20's. @bitcars uses foobar and he explains how to set that up. At last we have a driver thats lets us play DSD256 through the Gustard :banana piano: I thought the sound was a step forward, not night and day, but nice. More transparency, acoustic instruments had some extra detail (piano boards held the sustain longer, and guitars had more air inside them) Massed strings sounded wonderful. The stage seemed larger but that may have been due to the increased transparency which made images more distinct and 3D'ish. I was more involved in the music.
On another note I have now completed the full AC mod to my friends X20u and damped the larger caps with ear SD40al material. This is what I would call a pretty significant upgrade getting about 85% of the full level 1 mod. The biggest differences being a bit less transparency and size of the sound stage; also performers are not as solidly located in this stage as full L1. Now this would not be noticeable to you until you heard a full L1 then you would begin to understand what I am saying. If you just listened to the full ac mod with damping you would not say to yourself I wish I had more transparency and a bigger stage. As usual you do not know what is missing until you hear it. Friday I will remove the diodes on his output board and replace with Ric's recommendation and then probably Sunday I will solder in my custom made coax cable. Then I only need the Quantum chips to get to Ric's full level 1 mod (they are ordered, just waiting for them). I will report after each mod.
For those of you that only did the first 3 steps of the AC mod 1) twist AC wires 2) remove steel tranny hardware 3) wrap fuse or use audiophile fuse you are missing quite a bit by not completing the AC mod and damping those caps.
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Hi, Quadman.
Thank you for the update on tweaks and their effects. As an X20U owner, I'm interested.
I'm traveling right now, so I don't even have it with me. Grr.
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Has anyone gotten the Gustard X20u to play a DSD512 signal? I would assume owners of the Gustard u12 should, in theory, by connecting it to the X20 via i2s connection be able to play DSD512 if the dac is in fact capable of playing DSD512. I don't remember anyone reporting on DSD512 playback.
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I got the Level 1 mods back from Ric about a week ago. For me it was easily worth the money. Compared to my NAD M51, I am hearing more details in the music and am getting a nicer soundstage. With the stock version I noticed that the soundstage did have more depth than with my previous DAC but that depth now seems amplified. Issues that I had with sharpness right out of the box are gone. All in all, I am very happy with this and recommend it.
I do have a Gustard U12 so I could try to upsample to DSD 512. However, I don't have any software installed that will do this and am not sure that my 2009 MacMini would be up to the task. My next step is going to be removing the U12 to see how it sounds going straight to the USB through a Regen.
At some point, I will have to get some DSD files to see what the fuss is about. Ultimately, I do want to test upsampling to DSD and try a new setup with a better transport than the Mac (microRendu?)
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Sorry to follow up on my own post. Is there somebody out there who can PM me a version of the users manual in English? Thanks.
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Sorry to follow up on my own post. Is there somebody out there who can PM me a version of the users manual in English? Thanks.
PM sent.
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So late afternoon yesterday, I swapped the stock diodes on on the output board with Ric's suggested ones. Now my buddies dac is only missing the custom coax cable from a full L1 dac mod. I let it run with a signal for 4 hours before I listened to it. While it was settling in I listened to my L1 dac on DSD256, I must say I really like the sound at this resolution, density of information is probably one of the best descriptions I can come up with. The stage is huge, of course, but the solidity, presence and energy of all performers is what grabs your attention. It could for persons who have only heard redbook PCM or up sampled PCM be a bit unsettling, off maybe? I have asked myself more than once is there a phase(y) thing going on because of this density of information. Then when you start to break performers down individually you realize that it is as it should be they are tightly focused, located in a specific place in the stage with great transparency and what I call palpable presence and a dynamic energy that you do not quite get with PCM. Now PCM is also very good but lacks that extra amount of "density" that DSD256 provides. I guess it was this effect, thou to a lesser extent (than DSD), what @sruffle meant when he said "but that depth now seems amplified"
On to the diode change, I replayed the same tracks I had just listened to with my L1 dac at the same volume. Things were coming together very nicely and I was hearing only slight differences between my L1 and his close to L1 dac. Confession, his dac has a different oscillator clock than my dac. Mine was purchased in late February and has a Gustard labeled clock which is a slightly different size than his (purchased in mid April) Accusilicon labeled clock, so they are most likely different clocks and until they both have the same level of mod, it will be hard to make comments on his dac vs. my dac. So my comments are based on how his dac is improving compared to my dac and am I getting the same "density of information" that I get with mine. I will speculate that his dac has a bit more weight to the bass while mine is maybe more focused and tighter and his dac (to use a common audiophile comparison) would be a touch on the tube side and mine a touch on the SS side. Once I solder in the new coax cable on both dacs (so they are the same, pure silver) then I can make some sound comparisons. As it is now I really enjoyed listening to music with both dacs and feel as tho my buddies dac with the diode change has moved into that paradigm shift territory I mentioned much earlier in this thread. With the same coax cable in each will the new accusilicon clock dac beat the Gustard clock dac. We will see, that is a story for next week.
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My plan was to purchase an Yggdrasil later this summer, running a disc spinner through it via coax or optical since I have 300+ redbook CD's and purchase an music server (possibly a HAL 3) later this year or early next year. Reviewers have said the Yggy does wonders with redbook CD's, any idea how the Gustard X20U would sound with redbook discs?
Thanks
- Martin
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Martin my Yggdrasil sits waiting to be listed on Audiogon. The Gustard X20 plays beautiful music daily through my system. YMMV.
Marty
My plan was to purchase an Yggdrasil later this summer, running a disc spinner through it via coax or optical since I have 300+ redbook CD's and purchase an music server (possibly a HAL 3) later this year or early next year. Reviewers have said the Yggy does wonders with redbook CD's, any idea how the Gustard X20U would sound with redbook discs?
Thanks
- Martin
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Marty,
Did you compare the Yggy to the Gustard playing redbook discs?
Thanks
- Martin
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Martin my music collection is predominately Redbook ripped to ALAC and AIFF used through an Aurender.
Marty,
Did you compare the Yggy to the Gustard playing redbook discs?
Thanks
- Martin
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My plan was to purchase an Yggdrasil later this summer, running a disc spinner through it via coax or optical since I have 300+ redbook CD's and purchase an music server (possibly a HAL 3) later this year or early next year. Reviewers have said the Yggy does wonders with redbook CD's, any idea how the Gustard X20U would sound with redbook discs?
Thanks
- Martin
Martin, Rich's HAL 3 server is a great buy, sounds superb and you can't get better customer service.
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Martin, Rich's HAL 3 server is a great buy, sounds superb and you can't get better customer service.
Yeah the reviews sound really good, glad you like the server!
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Martin, Rich's HAL 3 server is a great buy, sounds superb and you can't get better customer service.
+1 on that - listening to the older MS-2 now (sounds the same) and also have the MS-3
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Uptone Amber Regen update: I'm still struggling with network issues, but I was able to get my USB output on my Aurender to work again, which means my Uptone Regen works again. Pretty big improvement over the AES input I'd been using for the last couple weeks.
Now I just need to figure out WTF's going on with the Aurender on my network.
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Have you updated your Aurender? I know the latest update made some very needed changes.
Uptone Amber Regen update: I'm still struggling with network issues, but I was able to get my USB output on my Aurender to work again, which means my Uptone Regen works again. Pretty big improvement over the AES input I'd been using for the last couple weeks.
Now I just need to figure out WTF's going on with the Aurender on my network.
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Now I just need to figure out WTF's going on with the Aurender on my network.
What are you using for NAS? I finally got my Synology DS716+ and have it up and running (about a month and a half) and it seems to have lots of updates too. I suspect the other post with the Aurender firmware is more likely the culprit. I dragged my HAL MS-3 to the dealer to compare it to an Aurender N100H but his Berkeley Reference DAC driver didn't like Windows 10 so hopefully sometime over the next month he'll lend it to me.
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Have you updated your Aurender? I know the latest update made some very needed changes.
Yes I upgraded the software a couple weeks ago as part of my troubleshooting--it didn't make any difference.
Finally got a chance to try out a few different things today and I'm gaining on it. The problem has something to do with my wireless extension router.
I pulled the wireless extension router out of my electronics closet and hooked it up to the Comcast router. Confirmed that it functioned properly (could connect to internet wirelessly through the extension router via iPad).
I pulled the Aurender out of my rack and took it into the kitchen (where my Comcast router is). Confirmed everything functions correctly regardless of whether I was plugged into the wireless extension or the Comcast router directly. I could access the Aurender via iPad on either wireless network. I also confirmed I could access the Aurender's files from my desktop wirelessly connected to either router.
I then reinstalled everything, and while I now get an IP address on my Aurender (and can play USB again!), I can't connect to the Aurender on my iPad or see the Aurender on my Music Server or desktop through either wireless router.
So, the problem must have something to do with the wireless extension router. Something to do with it not physically connected to the Comcast router. Weird thing is it worked for many months.
Of course, having a 75' Ethernet cable running through the hallway is not a long term solution, but I'm going to pick up a long cable and see if I can get everything stable with it hardwired. Hopefully it will stay that way once I unplug the long Ethernet cable, since it worked ok for several months.
Pretty weird! (especially the USB output bug!)
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What are you using for NAS? I finally got my Synology DS716+ and have it up and running (about a month and a half) and it seems to have lots of updates too. I suspect the other post with the Aurender firmware is more likely the culprit. I dragged my HAL MS-3 to the dealer to compare it to an Aurender N100H but his Berkeley Reference DAC driver didn't like Windows 10 so hopefully sometime over the next month he'll lend it to me.
Phil,
I'm still using the MS-3 as my NAS. I'm a bit suspicious that something done when fixing my MS-3 has something to do with the issue since these issues started after I got the MS-3 back. Hopefully getting everything hardwired and rebooted in place will put things right again. The MS-3 is still running WIN8.
Evan
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Phil,
I'm still using the MS-3 as my NAS. I'm a bit suspicious that something done when fixing my MS-3 has something to do with the issue since these issues started after I got the MS-3 back. Hopefully getting everything hardwired and rebooted in place will put things right again. The MS-3 is still running WIN8.
Evan
Evan - are you using something like? - http://lifehacker.com/5822590/turn-an-old-computer-into-a-networked-backup-streaming-or-torrenting-machine-with-freenas
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Evan - are you using something like? - http://lifehacker.com/5822590/turn-an-old-computer-into-a-networked-backup-streaming-or-torrenting-machine-with-freenas
Phil,
No I'm not using that app. I just have the MS-3 connected to the WiFi extension router. The Aurender is also plugged into the extension router, and connected to the MS-3 as an NAS via the Aurender software. I'm pretty sure the problem is an IP conflict. Now I just need to figure out how to fix it without breaking something else.
Evan
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Evan,
Have you tried running the MS-3 without the extension router and just the WiFi to your network?
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Evan,
Have you tried running the MS-3 without the extension router and just the WiFi to your network?
Rich,
Yes I tried that. The MS-3 works fine without the router, but the Aurender needs to be hardwired to a router. It worked fine for several months. About 6 weeks ago it was spotty, then went totally out a couple weeks ago.
I'm going to try one more time to power everything down, then power it back up again starting with the Comcast router. It should work, as it did for months. Worst case I can use the 100' CAT6 cable to connect the Aurender to the Comcast router when I want to play something not on my playlists.
There's always vinyl :?
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That is what I have to do here on power outages. Cable modem, then WiFi Router, then range extender. If not, the range extender kills the network.
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Time to get this thread back to Gustard. Was distracted last week by a KCBS BBQ contest which I competed in, thats over, back to audio. I soldered my custom silver coax cable into my friends X20 over a week ago and listening you would be very happy with the change, transparency went up and images seemed more there. Then I switched to my L1 dac with Ric's copper coax cable and something was just a touch off, his stage seemed smaller than mine and the images from his were blurred just a bit more. Now this was only noticeable when I compared it directly to mine. I was very content just listening to his. So as Ric has said "that coax cable is directional". I then reversed the cable direction and let his dac play a signal for 2 hours while I listened to mine. Then I switched to his dac, OMG, WOW nice change. His stage had become much bigger, images much tighter focused with that 3D palpable presence I just love. There seemed to be more energy present. it was really nice and I felt his dac had now surpassed my dac as to transparency. Last night I soldered in a custom silver coax into my dac, crossed my fingers hoping it was the correct direction (no arrows on these things), I got lucky and it was, it matched the stage size of my friends. Now I need to listen more this weekend to see the differences between the two dacs, as really now the difference is the oscillator clocks only.
So if you are curious and not afraid to take off the top cover, you might want to unscrew the coax cable (mark one end first for reference) and reverse it and screw it back on and listen to the stage size and image focus. You may be surprised. I would guess they don't listen to each cable, they just grab one from a box and screw it on.
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If you guys are not using the usb input then removing the usb card makes the Gustard sound mucho better. I am currently using coax from my modded Oppo 103D. Sounding very nice. Removing the usb board is not easy but doable.
Quadman is working on getting DSD512 into the DAC via either I2S input or directly into the PCI slots used by the usb board. This is going to sound outrageous using HQplayer upsampling to 512. Fun stuff ahead.
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Has anyone been able to compare the Gustard X20 to the DAC in the Vinnie Rossi LIO?
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Has anyone been able to compare the Gustard X20 to the DAC in the Vinnie Rossi LIO?
My buddy Rex likes his D.A.C. SMT integrated + Sony HAP-Z1ES over his LIO. LIO is twice as much in price.
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My buddy Rex likes his D.A.C. SMT integrated + Sony HAP-Z1ES over his LIO. LIO is twice as much in price.
My buddy Rex likes his D.A.C. SMT integrated + Sony HAP-Z1ES over his LIO. LIO is twice as much in price.
I have not heard the LIO but I have owned a modded Sony HAP-Z1ES and I now own the Gustard X20U which I have modded(not as much as Quadman) and for me the Gustard is superior to the Sony. I am listening to DSD256 via HQPlayer and all genre's of music but especially classical sounds wonderful.
I took a chance on the Gustard as I was really all set to buy the Mytek Brooklyn. I think I hit the jackpot in regards to price/performance. And yes...I too am anxiously awaiting Quadman's quest for DSD512!
Regards,
Randy
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I have not heard the LIO but I have owned a modded Sony HAP-Z1ES and I now own the Gustard X20U which I have modded(not as much as Quadman) and for me the Gustard is superior to the Sony. I am listening to DSD256 via HQPlayer and all genre's of music but especially classical sounds wonderful.
I took a chance on the Gustard as I was really all set to buy the Mytek Brooklyn. I think I hit the jackpot in regards to price/performance. And yes...I too am anxiously awaiting Quadman's quest for DSD512!
Regards,
Randy
Then that should make the modded Gustard better than the dac in the LIO.
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Randy,
Your dead on with price/performance, one of the best bargains in audio.
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"I took a chance on the Gustard as I was really all set to buy the Mytek Brooklyn. I think I hit the jackpot in regards to price/performance. And yes...I too am anxiously awaiting Quadman's quest for DSD512!"
I, too, was curious about the Brooklyn DAC, but I just did not wish to spend so much $$$$ on a DAC at this time. I'm pretty sure I can live with my Gustard for a few years - and I haven't even modded it yet.
About that DSD512 - I specifically recall DSD512 capability for the X20 being listed on at least one Chinese website. I do not recall which site it was. I'll go back and search it out. I'll post what I find and include links. If it's in Chinese, you're on your own. :icon_twisted: J/K.
Michael
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My buddy Rex likes his D.A.C. SMT integrated + Sony HAP-Z1ES over his LIO. LIO is twice as much in price.
He should sell his LIO then.
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http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/GUSTARD-DAC-X20U-Super-Ultimate-HIFI-DAC-2xES9018-XMOS-USB-384KHZ-DSD64-128/901633_32410001838.html
I see it is now "Super Ultimate HIFI DAC!" Hot damn!
GUSTARD DAC-X20U Super Ultimate HIFI DAC
2xES9018+XMOS USB 384KHZ DSD64/128
Adopt more humane modular XMOS USB daughter card.
Analog circuit use High-end discrete lines.
Features:
1. Doul (sic) ESS Technology Sabre Reference 32bit ES9018 DAC chip,R and L sound Channel one on each side.
2.Automatic adaptation master clock technology and Asynchronous master clock technology.
Two clock mode can be freely selected.
3. XMOS 32bit USB receiver chip which is best performance asynchronous USB audio solution.
4.CPLD programmable logic device. Soft control ES9018.
5.Three files gain, volume can be adjusted. Attenuation adjustable from 0 to -99DB.
6.TFT LCD screen, adjustable contrast.
7.Power supply with two O-type transformers, Digital and Analog independent power supply, and use Discrete Components regulation Voltage stabilization.
8. Full balance Discrete components Analog Line. Balance / RCA output simultaneously.
9. Digital Input: balanced Spdif AES/EBU port, RCA, Toslink Optical input and USB,(Key switch)
10. Both 110/120v and 220/240v version supported.
11.Power Supply: AC 230V 50 / 60Hz (AC 115V 50 / 60Hz), Power Consumption: <50W
12.Dimensions (excluding protruding part): W 380MM * H 65MM * D 260MM
DAC Specification:
ESS Technology ES9018 Sabre Reference 32-bit DAC
8 mono to 2 stereo configuration,four D/A converters per channel
Digital Input>>>>>>
Coaxial/BNC:
PCM:16-24bit /44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz
DOP: DOP64
optical:
PCM:16-24bit /44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz
DOP:DOP64
AES/EBU:
PCM:16-24bit /44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz
DOP:DOP64
IIS:
PCM:16-32bit /44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384kHz
DSD:DSD64/DSD128/DSD256/DSD512
DOP:DOP64/DOP128 DOP256/DOP512
Wouldn't this suggest that attaining DSD512 is 'easily' attainable?
USB:16-32bit / 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384 kHz
DSDx64(2.8224MHz)/DSDx128(5.6448MHz)
Analog Output:
RCA Output :2.3 Vrms *0dBFS
XLR Output :4.6 Vrms *0dBFS
Frequency :20-20K Hz +/-0.15dB
USB 2.0 interface can replay 1BIT/2.8224MHz or asynchronous sampling rate 5.6448MHz DSD Digital Signals.
This is supported DSD64 and DSD128.
Coaxial / Optic / AES / EBU support DOP64, can connect Digital Music Player playback SACD MUSIC
Main chip: ESS Technology ES9018 Sabre Reference 32bit chip x 2
Unlike conventional Sigma-Delta D / A converter, ESS Sabre32 use innovative patented circuit,
Get rid of the ordinary Digital Audio System timebase jitter, get very wide dynamic range, low distortion and accurate sound field.
Automatic adaptation master clock technology and Asynchronous master clock technology.
Two clock mode can be freely selected.
CPLD Digital Integer technology
Full balance Discrete components Analog Line. Balance / RCA output simultaneously.
Two 50W O-type transformers. The best choice for high-end equipment.
Coupled better and more efficient. A more stable job, to bring you more beautiful sound.
XOMS USB Professional SOUND CARD:
XMOS X-CORE digital signal processing unit, which have powerful processing capabilities, is by far the most advanced digital audio solution
USB Audio Class 2.0 implements asynchronous transfer playback, and supports low latency ASIO, KS and other professional audio software interface, support for Windows and Mac operating systems.
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He should sell his LIO then.
He is seriously thinking about it. He likes the remote. Rex sells most of his stuff on Agon but he should sell it here on AC.
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He is seriously thinking about it. He likes the remote. Rex sells most of his stuff on Agon but he should sell it here on AC.
I look forward to seeing it for sale. Maybe I'll buy it.
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I look forward to seeing it for sale. Maybe I'll buy it.
I will call Rex right now.
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My buddy Rex likes his D.A.C. SMT integrated + Sony HAP-Z1ES over his LIO. LIO is twice as much in price.
But is it really twice as much, since the LIO eliminates the need for power conditioners and cords?
I guess that's what has me so interested in the LIO, a $2,000. power conditioner (with high quality power cord) may not even work as well as isolating all circuitry from ac mains power... Does your friend use a power conditioner?
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I look forward to seeing it for sale. Maybe I'll buy it.
Rex said he will take $5K plus sipping. It has the works, and all black with silver knobs.
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Rex said he will take $5K plus sipping. It has the works, and all black with silver knobs.
Have him PM me here with all the details. Exact modules...
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But is it really twice as much, since the LIO eliminates the need for power conditioners and cords?
I guess that's what has me so interested in the LIO, a $2,000. power conditioner (with high quality power cord) may not even work as well as isolating all circuitry from ac mains power... Does your friend use a power conditioner?
No power conditioner, his amp sounds better plugged into the wall.
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Have him PM me here with all the details. Exact modules...
Will do. He has all the top current modules.
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He is seriously thinking about it. He likes the remote. Rex sells most of his stuff on Agon but he should sell it here on AC.
What's his Audiogon member name?
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What's his Audiogon member name?
I will have to check. He has 100% positive feedback with a lot of sales.
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What's his Audiogon member name?
It is travelsted, 100% positive.
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It is travelsted, 100% positive.
Thanks!
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And back to Gustard. Both my dac and my friends dac are now what Ric would call full Level 1 dac's (the difference being the oscillator clocks, standard Gustard labeled one and newer Accusilicon one). I applied one of Ric's favorite tweaks (WA Quantum Chips) to the ESS chips, and to the large power caps and the FGPA chip on the digital board. I must say I was very skeptical, these just look like fancy stickers, the adhesive back side is silver like the inside of most mylar balloons with a high quality embossed paper cover. They say on their site they are tuned for the device they are made for; Capacitor chips, fuse chips, cable chips, semiconductor chips etc. Man that sounds like audiophile snake oil if I ever heard it. Ric swears by them and so far he has not steered me wrong, so $60 bucks for 2 dacs, I'll bite.
Since my friends dac is easier to access I applied them to his first, Listened for a couple of hours, I liked what I heard but it was not that different then before. Then I played 3 very well known tracks, to me, and switched to my dac and played the same 3 tracks. Hmmm I liked mine better it seemed like his dac closed the stage down a bit and the bass was softer, maybe fatter compared to my dac. I listened to mine for a bit then the same 3 songs and back to his dac, same impression. I was not impressed so far. The next day, memorial day, I was doing a long big meat cook on the BBQ and fired up the system around noon, my friends dac playing, about 4 hours into it I sat and listened and thought this is sounding pretty good, so played the same 3 tracks and switched to mine. Now the results were different his stage was larger, the bass was much tighter than before and the transparency level was up. My dac sounded a bit flat against his. I listened to mine a bit then same 3 songs and back to his, same impression, I was liking his more. So of course I applied the chips to my dac and let it run with signal for 3 hours while I continued to listen to my friends dac. Played the same 3 songs and switched to my dac, this was more like it mine was still a bit behind his but the gap was closing and it was better than with no chips. So I let mine run with signal for the entire night while I listened to his. Yesterday was another shootout and both dacs now had about 14 hours of signal with the chips. They are pretty close in SQ; big stage, very very transparent, lots of presence, tonality spot on, highs to die for just very very engaging. I must say after 5-6 hours of playing the chips did improve and continued to improve for a bit longer (if they are still improving it is hard to tell as both dac's improve together). I would have to say it was well worth $30 a dac to get this SQ improvement.
The dacs, both excellent, do sound a bit different which I attribute to the clocks and to really get a handle on what is what I need more listening time as first impressions can become, what did I do? after long term listening. (I am sure if you have been in the hobby long enough that has happened to you). As a general statement I think his dac has sharper better defined leading edges of transients which provides a touch more jump factor, it may also have a bit more transparency. My dac with the Gustard labeled clock is possibly a touch more relaxed with great weight in the bass but possibly a touch fatter, it also has lots of information but may not capture the most tiny inner detail as the accusilicon clock. Both dac's are a joy to listen to and I like which ever one is playing at the time which is good news to owners of the older, stock Gustard clock. We don't have to sell our dac's to get the new chip. More listening will further clarify this observation and if my opinion changes much I will report.
The DSD512 project I can report I ordered the card a week ago and today finally settled on the external PSU I need to provide 2x3.3Vdc output. Unfortunately both items are coming from China via Hong Kong Post and I expect a 2 week delivery time. All other things needed for this project are ordered and will be ready as soon as the PSU board hits. I think I have a good handle on how to connect everything internally with fitment being the biggest obstacle and will probably require some case cutting to provide access to the USB input on the Chinese DSD card. So hopefully by 3rd week June I should have this project up and running and we will see if DSD512 is possible with this dac (I know the specs say so but some folks claim ESS has never officially stated support for DSD512 with the 9018 chip) and if playback is stable at that rate. I have a i7-4790 processor that is only using 22-25% at DSD256 so 512 should be no problem for that machine. A big shout out to @SimonBromley for his help on this project as he has already connected his Wave I/O card internally in the X20 and can playback DSD256 with it.
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Are there dealers that do warranty repairs in the U.S.?
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Are there dealers that do warranty repairs in the U.S.?
As far as I know, No there are none, check with Worthy audio as they import it.
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Hey Now,
On sale at Amazon for $799 USB model (http://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-DAC-X20-384KHz-Decoder-USB/dp/B015R112XA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465230174&sr=8-1&keywords=gustard+x20u). Just picked one up.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Question: are the XLR outputs "truly balanced" or is the X20 fundamentally single ended and they just added XLR jacks for convenience?
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I've had my eye on one of these.
However, I'm looking at the new Sabre Pro chips from ESS.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/ess-technology-introduces-sabre-pro-series-dacs-setting-new-performance-bar-unprecedented-140-db-dynamic-range/
I wonder if Gustard will make a DAC with the 9038?
If not, I wonder if the 9018 can just be switched with the 9028. Anyone know if this is a plug and play kind of thing?
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Hello, Syrah.
I read the news about the Sabre 9028 and Pro chips from ESS, too. Either chip would make for an incredible DAC, but I suspect they will cost a fair penny for a couple years. Since I already own an X20u, I'll happily use it till the pro chips come down in price. The future holds some truly amazing choices for us.
Michael
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I've had my eye on one of these.
However, I'm looking at the new Sabre Pro chips from ESS.
http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/ess-technology-introduces-sabre-pro-series-dacs-setting-new-performance-bar-unprecedented-140-db-dynamic-range/
I wonder if Gustard will make a DAC with the 9038?
If not, I wonder if the 9018 can just be switched with the 9028. Anyone know if this is a plug and play kind of thing?
I'm waiting for DACs made using the new chip for sure, it may make implementation of the DAC as well as streamers easier or at least not as critical to performance. Current requirements for an DSD upsampling server + streamer are a huge turnoff for me, imo it's ridiculous that the DAC is so sensitive to peripherals.
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Here's an interesting item. My friend Wally got his Gustard thursday last week. He was in a hurry to listen so I suggested he use his macbook since that does not need a driver and he could take his time and figure out how to install the driver on his win 10 machine. I didn't hear from him for a couple of days and then I got an email from him and he said WOW I got my win 10 machine up and running finally and what a difference the Gustard sounds wonderful. Apparently with the mac (osx 10.8 ) the gustard sounded very bad in fact his words were "John - I was devastated - the sound during first 2 days - was like 1/3 way from CD to AM station" and there was a huge change for the better with Win 10. So he sent an email off to forexman and asked:
I sent question to Gustard seller - " is Macbook with OS 10.8 giving good sound performance ? "
They responded - only driver included on mini CD loaded to windows-10 is giving best sound performance
even latest Macbooks are inferior to W-10
So do any mac users feel the gustard is not sounding good?
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When I switched from my Mac Book Pro to an Aurender it made a huge difference.
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I love my Macs, but simplicity is not always better. Good thing Mac users have Bootcamp that will let us use most any OS we want. I still have to do a comparison between OSX 10.10 and Win 10 on my cheap Sony UDA-1 DAC.
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That's a worry as a MAC user who is just about to purchase a GUSTARD.
Here's an interesting item. My friend Wally got his Gustard thursday last week. He was in a hurry to listen so I suggested he use his macbook since that does not need a driver and he could take his time and figure out how to install the driver on his win 10 machine. I didn't hear from him for a couple of days and then I got an email from him and he said WOW I got my win 10 machine up and running finally and what a difference the Gustard sounds wonderful. Apparently with the mac (osx 10.8 ) the gustard sounded very bad in fact his words were "John - I was devastated - the sound during first 2 days - was like 1/3 way from CD to AM station" and there was a huge change for the better with Win 10. So he sent an email off to forexman and asked:
I sent question to Gustard seller - " is Macbook with OS 10.8 giving good sound performance ? "
They responded - only driver included on mini CD loaded to windows-10 is giving best sound performance
even latest Macbooks are inferior to W-10
So do any mac users feel the gustard is not sounding good?
what software did your friend use with the MAC?
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That's a worry as a MAC user who is just about to purchase a GUSTARD.
what software did your friend use with the MAC?
He has the one before Mavericks 10.8 I think. Usually newer OS systems sound better than older OS. I know with my old dac a NAD M51 when I went from mac with mavericks to windows 7 I thought windows was a nice improvement, and felt the same when I moved to windows 10.
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I'm using a Mac mini ( El Capitan ) with my Gustard I have no complaints. Had Boot camp with Win7 for a while, might try Win10 later.
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That's a worry as a MAC user who is just about to purchase a GUSTARD.
And a PITA for a Mac Mini owner who recently purchased an X20u. Hmm. I'll have to try Gentlebender's idea. I wonder, is this still a problem for a Mac user if he also buys a micro-Rendu?
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Now my gustard driver doesn't work with foobar2k 1.3.10 or Jriver even Diyhk version .I'm not sure when Gustard have a new driver that work.my Device managment on window 10 said it work but foobar can not inititial driver or connect to the device.,same go Jriver.I hope gustard have a website for driver update.otherwise my Dac is just sit there.
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Hey Now,
On sale at Amazon for $799 USB model (http://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-DAC-X20-384KHz-Decoder-USB/dp/B015R112XA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465230174&sr=8-1&keywords=gustard+x20u). Just picked one up.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
Hey Now,
Ordered with Amazon on Monday, June 6th --> arrived today, June 9th at 1200 noon EDT! Gustard X20U in da' house. How'd it get here so quick from Shenzhen, China? Shipped via DHL.
Not working with my DIY Intel NUC Audiolinux music streamer, but using it with my 5K iMac (Yosemite 10.10.5) -> Roon -> HQPlayer -> upsampling all files to DoP 128 -> AQJB -> Kimber Cable USB Cu -> Regen -> Gustard -> Balanced out -> Parasound P3 -> Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro mono blocks -> Omega Super 3Ts w/Crown XLS-1500 bucket subs. Sounding pretty good out of the box, gonna let it run for a few days and check back in with it.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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I'm sorry to hear about the Mac issues. The X20U sounds great with my Aurender and HAL.
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Hey Now,
This thing is sounder better and better in just 24 hours of playing. I got my DIY streamer working with a little help from some friends 8^). So here are some screenshots of my chain:
5K iMac i5 Core (Yosemite 10.10.5) --> Roon/HQPlayer --> output upsampling all PCM files to DSD256 --> DIY Intel NUC Streamer [Linux image (?)] --> AQJB --> iFi USB cable --> Regen --> hard connector --> Gustard at DSD256! How cool is that :thumb:
Roon Output
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/ccklone/Roon%20Output_zpsc3niqdq9.jpg)
HQPlayer Preferences
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/ccklone/HQPlayer%20Preferences_zpsxjrw2kmc.jpg)
Gustard Display
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/ccklone/Gustard%20USB%20DSD256a_zpso0rr03dd.jpg)
I am going to let this burn in for a week or so and enjoy listening to it. I'll probably start on some of Ric Schulz's suggested tweaks in due time. Life is good 8^).
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Awesome stuff, Chris. :thumb:
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Chris,
Very nice and you have no idea how good this dac can get. Full AC mod per Ric with capacitor damping is a nice positive change.
I am still waiting on my power supply board before I can try the DSD512.
Be Well
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Hey Now,
Thanks guys. Without the support and shared knowledge/experience on here, Head-fi, WBF and CA I would not be listening to this level of audio for this little dollar outlay. I stayed up way too late last night and am blowing off farm chores today in the 90+ degree heat today listening to the Gustard burning in. I really cannot fathom that this can get better.
I started upsampling to DSD using JRMC and an iFi Nano sometime last year, then got Roon, HQPlayer, started upsampling to DSD128 via RPi2 NAA, then DIY Intel NUC streamer NAA up to DSD256, upgraded DAC to iFi Micro DSD and now this DAC. And it can get better? Unreal. Each step has been an improvement in overall sound quality. The fun part of this are the folks sharing the pioneering work to get this kind of quality audio with relatively low monetary outlay and being able to understand and implement much of it. And to top it all off, I have Tidal integration with Roon. It is a good time to be a music lover.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Delete
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I feel like most of my posts are asking for comparisons but here's another.. Has anyone compared the Gustard to the NuPrime DAC-10? Thanks.. :)
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I feel like most of my posts are asking for comparisons but here's another.. Has anyone compared the Gustard to the NuPrime DAC-10? Thanks.. :)
Yes. Aldcol and I did just this at his house a couple months ago. In fact there were 5 (I think) different DACs. If I recall correctly, we felt the DAC-10 and the X20u were comparable in performance. Now, it wasn't a thorough comparison because the Gustard had been set at the forward/lively setting (unbeknownst to me at the time) and we did not try it in the more relaxed mode. Anyway, my take away was that they were pretty close to each other in SQ and sound stage. I was happy because I had bought the Gustard for just $800 vs what the DAC-10 would have cost. With the cost savings I bought a PI Audio USB cable and a used Triode Wire Labs Digital American power cord. That made me a happy camper.
Michael
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Yes. Aldcol and I did just this at his house a couple months ago. In fact there were 5 (I think) different DACs. If I recall correctly, we felt the DAC-10 and the X20u were comparable in performance. Now, it wasn't a thorough comparison because the Gustard had been set at the forward/lively setting (unbeknownst to me at the time) and we did not try it in the more relaxed mode. Anyway, my take away was that they were pretty close to each other in SQ and sound stage. I was happy because I had bought the Gustard for just $800 vs what the DAC-10 would have cost. With the cost savings I bought a PI Audio USB cable and a used Triode Wire Labs Digital American power cord. That made me a happy camper.
Michael
Aldcoll here. Sorry about not switching the setting and I don't recall a big difference but it has been a few months.
The one thing the Gustard is shot on and that is high end detail. Cymbal work disappears. Check out a pipe organ piece and do a A B. You will be shocked.
But if it weren't for that fantastic sound stage.
The DAC -10 held up well in my comparison. Better high end. And I will add my Parasound Z DAC has better high end then the Gustard.
Alan
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Aldcoll here. Sorry about not switching the setting and I don't recall a big difference but it has been a few months.
The one thing the Gustard is shot on and that is high end detail. Cymbal work disappears.
Alan,
The "Sharp" filter or 70Khz on DSD didn't help you out. In my system I have all the detail I want on the top end.
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I use the 70 KHz filter as well and think the highs are one of its strong suits, then again I have level 1 mod, but percussion, and highs oh boy.
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Aldcoll here. Sorry about not switching the setting and I don't recall a big difference but it has been a few months.
The one thing the Gustard is shot on and that is high end detail. Cymbal work disappears. Check out a pipe organ piece and do a A B. You will be shocked.
But if it weren't for that fantastic sound stage.
The DAC -10 held up well in my comparison. Better high end. And I will add my Parasound Z DAC has better high end then the Gustard.
Alan
It's all good, Alan. I certainly don't blame you for that setting. Back when I bought the Gustard, I knew about the different settings, but it completely slipped my mind when I was at your place. Good food, good drinks, and good conversation. You know you were a huge help in that I bought it before I was back in the States and had it sent to you. Thank you, Alan. :thumb:
Michael
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Yes. Aldcol and I did just this at his house a couple months ago. In fact there were 5 (I think) different DACs. If I recall correctly, we felt the DAC-10 and the X20u were comparable in performance. Now, it wasn't a thorough comparison because the Gustard had been set at the forward/lively setting (unbeknownst to me at the time) and we did not try it in the more relaxed mode. Anyway, my take away was that they were pretty close to each other in SQ and sound stage. I was happy because I had bought the Gustard for just $800 vs what the DAC-10 would have cost. With the cost savings I bought a PI Audio USB cable and a used Triode Wire Labs Digital American power cord. That made me a happy camper.
Michael
Mresseguie and aldcoll, thanks, that's definitely helpful. I'd probably favor buying the Dac-10 then.
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Do all you can to try them in your home or some one close. There is. Diffrence and as I think back I really miss that sound stage. The unit we had might be the only one with its particular sound. As I no longer have the unit I haven't kept up with the upgrades and that might address what I found lacking.
Alan
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I've now had my X20U stop playing 2-3 times (Aurender S10 via USB and Uptone Amber). Turning the power off then on again resets it. Has anyone else noticed this? I've only seen it since adding the Uptone Amber, but removing the Uptone Amber doesn't fix it, only a power cycle does, so it seems to be a problem with the Gustard. Also I've tried skipping tracks on the Aurender from PCM to DSD and vice versa with no effect.
It's not a huge issue, but a tad annoying.
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No problems here, have you tried any other input and get the same problem.
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No problems here, have you tried any other input and get the same problem.
Not yet. Just the USB.
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Not yet. Just the USB.
Have you figured out the problem yet ACHiPo?...
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Have you figured out the problem yet ACHiPo?...
No. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I've had it happen once more in the last two weeks. It's not a huge deal, but seems kinda strange.
On another front I received one of Pete's and Pi-Audio's new USB cables. Too early for any serious review, but liking what I hear so far.
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No. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I've had it happen once more in the last two weeks. It's not a huge deal, but seems kinda strange.
On another front I received one of Pete's and Pi-Audio's new USB cables. Too early for any serious review, but liking what I hear so far.
Cool....I plan to get the Gustard and a HAL 3 Server in a few weeks...will need a USB cable as well.
If you take the plunge to have the Gustard upgraded http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Gustard_X20_Mods.html
he removes the power switch....
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Hi, Martin.
Even though I didn't bring my Gustard on my travels, I did bring my P. I. Audio USB cord and my TWL HP Digital American PC. I don't know how or if this USB cord differs from the newly announced cord.
If we can coordinate a visit, I'll happily bring them along. :thumb:
Michael
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Hi, Martin.
Even though I didn't bring my Gustard on my travels, I did bring my P. I. Audio USB cord and my TWL HP Digital American PC. I don't know how or if this USB cord differs from the newly announced cord.
If we can coordinate a visit, I'll happily bring them along. :thumb:
Michael
Hi Michael,
That would be great...Id love to hear the difference in your digital front end compared to my disc spinning set up!
Let me know when you can make it!
- Martin
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Can anyone provide a good link (or send me) the user manual and USB driver for Windows 10?
Thanks!
- Martin
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Hey Now,
It just keeps getting better and better. I did the 3 easy to do electrical tweaks. 1) wrapped fuse in copper 2) removed tranny bolts and used cardboard donuts and 3) cut the sheath from the power wires and twisted them. Took 30 minutes and it made an audible difference. It is clearer on the highs with a bit better definition, more airy. Need to mull over the other tweaks now 8^).
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Double post deleted.
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If you have read this thread you know I have modded 2 x20's. The full AC mod is very nice 80-85% of the full level 1 mod and definitely an improvement over what you have now. I also recommend damping those bigger power caps with the material Ric talks about over in the whats best forum, that very easy too.
I am still struggling with DSD 512, between other commitments and struggling to get the gustard to lock on the DSD signal with 3.3Vdc applied to the right pins on the PCIe. I think I solved that issue and hope this weekend I can finally give it a real go and see if that DIY DSD card can do 512.
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Well I finally got the DIY DSD card to play DSD512, geeze what should have been a relatively easy project turned into a several week frustration nightmare. The final piece was gustard keeps making running changes to their dac as they go and one production is not necessarily the same as another production. Which, as you can imagine, makes it very difficult for DIY's to just tweak away. I was following Simon who has for weeks been playing his WAVE I/O card with great results direct into the I2S lines of the USB's PCIe module. First I messed up my ground connection for the 3.3 and 5V lines that the Gustard needs to see on the PCIe, I was only connecting one line to this "very important" ground and the other line to a different ground. You cannot do that both the 3.3Vdc and 5Vdc lines have to connect to the A3 PCIe pin, if they don't The dac won't switch into DSD mode. Simon finally cleared me up on that, sometimes the most obvious is so hard to see. Then I used the same DSD connections he used and I could not get the Gustad to lock on to a frequency, the display remain unlocked, wtf? Simon and I discussed and most of the symptoms I was seeing on the display we similar to his except he could lock onto a frequency and I couldn't. So yesterday I said what the heck and I switched the DSD clock and DSD R lines and I'll be darned the dac played music. I had previously switched the lines before, but that was when I did not have both voltage lines grounded to A3. So what should have been simple was made way more difficult due to my stubbornness to connect both voltage lines to A3 (there is more to that story than I type here) and faulty schematics from gustard or their constantly making little changes to circuits making it tougher for us DIY's.
Anyway the dac did lock and I up sampled music files to DSD512, Whoo Hoo Then I started to hear some periodic white noise like sounds (kind of like a motorboat or bumble bee changing speeds) when playing music, these could last from 5-30 seconds then go away and then re-appear. So I changed sampling rate to DSD256 and listened I had no strange sounds when playing at this rate. So I think it is one of two things. 1) my DIY low noise dual PSU is overworking driving this card and sending noise into the xmos chip or 2) the ESS 9018 dac chip is not capable of playing DSD512 smoothly. I don't think it would be related to my USB cable length from the PC to the dac (2m). So when time allows I will build a big boy psu and connect the DSD card to that to see if that solves the problem. I may also shorten my DSD I2S lines, DIY says that should be 50mm or shorter mine are probably 65mm. If either of those two don't solve the white noise issue then it may well be the 9018 chips may not handle DSD512 smoothly.
When the music was playing without white noise there was more air around instruments and performers, more presence to the vocalist. It was very nice and certainly to brief to make any definitive statements. I did listen for over 2 hours at DSD256 and felt there was more presence as well, more transparency and I was more involved in the music. I think Ric and Simon hit it on the head when they removed the USB cards and reported improved sonics. Taking that extra load off the Gustards digital PSU and switching it to a external PSU seems to have benefits. So even if I cannot get DSD512 to be stable I think I came out ahead in the end. More listening will clarify this situation.
I listened more last night (DSD256) and there is an improvement over the stock USB card. I attribute this to using an external PSU to power the DSD card and PCIe voltage lines. There is just a bit more transparency, presence and air. Leading edges are a touch more defined and the tonality remains spot on as far as I can tell. When will this dac stop improving? I am going next week to my buddies house and installing his gustard (that I modded and reported on) and custom PC with Roon and HQplayer. He has ordered new amps, pass Xa 100.8, and new tubes for his preamp CJ Art 3. His room is huge with a walk around sound stage. This should be a very fun project. I think he'll be very pleased. Wally of Wally set up tools will be there as well to dial in his TT, SME30, dynavector XV1t cartridge and top of the line pass phono. So the Gustard as DSD256 will go against a very well set up top of the line TT thats a few clicks above mine. That will be fun
Here it is DSD512 (low res phone image, sorry)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146729)
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All,
John M was nice enough to send me the users manual and I received the Gustard X20 Driver from Shen Zen audio (although I purchased the Gustard through Kidult Online through Amazon - I sent an email to Kidult and had the driver within minutes from Shen Zen....)
If anyone needs the Gustard Driver and manual I have them both in a 6 Meg zip file and can email them to you.
- Martin :)
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Gustard 20XU in da house burning in now! It will be a few more days before I receive Rich's (HAL MS-3) server...then the fun begins! I plan on upsampling to DSD 128 using foobar if I can. I'll post my impressions as this journey progresses :thumb:
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Enjoy!
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High five, Martin.
Remember, it'll take up to 200 hours to mellow out, but you ought to notice improvements before then.
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Congrats Martin. Very few people take the Gustard seriously, You have chosen wisely and will really enjoy this dac. It truly is worthy of beginning systems to true Audiophile dream systems, it is that good.
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Hey Now Martin,
Well done. You have a made a great choice for a DAC. I am loving mine. I upsample all my PCM files to DSD256. A friend was over the other day and they could not believe how good it sounds. Enjoy.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Quadman, good write up and very informative.
For me, I'm waiting on an Singxer SU-1 (USB Interface), when It comes in I'll pull the USB card out of the Gustard, then I'll sit back and enjoy for a while.
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Quadman, good write up and very informative.
For me, I'm waiting on an Singxer SU-1 (USB Interface), when It comes in I'll pull the USB card out of the Gustard, then I'll sit back and enjoy for a while.
A much easier option, for sure, maybe not better sonically but easier and should improve over stock since the Su-1 has its own power source. I think you will have to play with the dip switches to match Gustards I2S lines, but the switches make that pretty easy.
Looks like I'll be getting a Accusilicon clock, I plan to solder that in by the output board coax tower and power it from an external PSU. With this you don't need the coax cable and you benefit by putting the clock close to the dac chips which most designers do and you remove another component from the gustards power. Simon is doing this with a crystek clock and reports an improvement in sound. We'll see, that and my last attempt to get DSD512 stable with big boy PSU and shorter DSD wires.
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Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!
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Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!
I had a Bifrost Uber and I'd bet the Gustard is going to be in a whole 'nother league. My Sony HAP replaced my Bifrost and it's so much better it's amazing... I wouldn't be surprised if the Gustard outperforms the Sony IF the computer/streamer setup is done properly.
I'm in no hurry to replace the Sony though it will be interesting to see what the new ESS chip DACs are like, they should be on their way... from what I can tell they should be less sensitive to the streamer feeding them, might make the Regen and similar products unnecessary.
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Here's an interesting USB cable upgrade that has recieved some rave reviews.....inexpensive as well!
http://usbdisruptor.com/
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He got banned on CA 3X setting up new accounts for his pitch for what it's worth.
You have to try all this to see if there are differences.
The Regen here didn't do anything had 2 of them the Itona works but subtle.
Buy used!
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I AM IN LOVE!!!!!!!........ with DSD512. The leap from 256 to 512 is much greater than the leap from 128 to 256. I am gobsmacked, grinning ear to ear about my experience last night. It might be the single greatest step forward I have ever experienced in high end audio, and there a been quit a few of those thru the years. I started yesterday by pulling my dac from the rack to check how much shorter can I really make the DSD lines, while I was examining that, I happened to notice my soldering job on the custom coax cable on the digital board was not my best work, I hung my head in shame. So I heated up the iron touched it to the wire and then slid over to the solder and got a really nice connection. Then for the heck of it I touched up the output side as well. When I started the music I selected DSD512, thinking I may only get a few minutes before the white noise would force me to lower the res down to 256. Well it was not totally stable, there was some random white noise from time to time but for the most part it was just blissful, wonderful music coming forth. Enough that I made a 6 hour listening session out of it. Now I am very determined to maximize all my I2s connections, ground connections and PSU to try to get it even more stable because I am addicted to that wonderful, magical sound.
How is it different? I don't think my limited audio vocabulary is sufficient to describe it, Jonathon Valin, Harry Pearson (rest in peace) Roy Gregory would do it much better justice than I. The background noise just disappeared, sounds emerged from the blackness with more presence and 3D palpability than I was accustomed to, and I thought I had a lot of that to begin with. The music was relaxed yet pace rhythm and drive was perfect. Tonality was spot on with that little extra detail that lets you really feel (see?) the technique, passion and skill the performer was putting forth. The geometrical space was the largest I have ever had in any system. Separation of the performers was at a all time high, combine that with the increased transparency and palpability and I just sat there jaw dropped enjoying every note that was being played. The random white noise did creep in and it was slightly annoying and a few times almost forced me to lower the res but then the music would come forth uninterrupted for several songs and all was great again.
This dac just keeps amazing me, Full Level 1 mod as per Ric, DSD512 card from DIYinHK and external PSU combined with DSD512 playback. I don't know how much $ you would have to spend on a dac to better this. This dac has nothing to be ashamed of against any dac at any price. Seriously if you want to take your Gustard to the next level get in touch with Ric and get the level 1 mod and then hope in the near future the DSD512 DDC's will be more common.
I am in LOVE!!!!!
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Jeff That is a tough call, the gustard with stock USB card can be used immediately and it does sound very good, The Singxer SU-1 is a stand alone product with its own PSU and can connect via HDMI most other cards require some serious DIY stuff to work with the gustard. Not sure how your DIY skills are. The rewards of a stand alone USB card can be very nice but getting it to work can be frustrating. The reason I chose the DIY DSD512 card was because it is perhaps the only DDC card I know of that can upsamaple to DSD512 and if I was going to do it I wanted to try for the max, knowing DSD256 is not a bad fall back option. For the $ saved, or spent, I would go with the stock USB card and then wait a bit as more cards will be coming out with DSD512 capability that will probably be much easier to implement in the gustard.
Been reading up the Gustard Dac with great interest. I am curious if it would be better to buy the X20 with out the USB card and buy my own card for better sound. I have been reading about all the newfangled little boxes that you can place after the computer and before the dac to get better sound. The Regen and the like.
It appears from what I have read that the new Xmos XU208 chips are the best available now to replace the stock Gustard Usb card. Not sure? The F-1 XMOS USB board that sells on ebay is one version. I have seen cheaper versions using the same chip the C-1 is one. The Singxer SU-1 uses this chip and the Dxio pro3 supposedly uses two of these chips.
I am running PC with a Intel Xeon E5450 cpu. 4309 passmark, so not sure if I will be able to get DSD at 256 out of it. I am running Daphile as the software. Haven't tried HQ player which may sound better but Daphile doesn't tax the Cpu as much I've heard. Many decisions here.
Want to upgrade from my Bifrost Uber Dac which sounds very good in my very revealing system.
Thanks to all the Audiocircle members in our quest for sonic purity!
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So I started setting up HALS MS-3 Server and Gustard DAC today...it took me a few hours but I successfully ripped my first redbook disc and played back using Foobar through the MS-3 server and Gustard at DSD 128! All I can say is WOW! Great resolution and sound. THe Gustard has not been burned in yet through the USB output...right out of the box it sounds very good! Now I need to master Foobar....Pretty Cool that we have the capability to reproduce music that sounds this good. :thumb:
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Her's a link to instructions to configure the Gustard to upsample to DSD using Foobar: http://www.head-fi.org/t/780385/gustard-x20-dac/585
Enjoy! :D
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I had the pleasure of auditioning the Gustard X20u a few weeks ago, courtesy of the gracious quadman (man, this guy has a KILLER system). I was very impressed with the X20u … a huge leap above my current entry level Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11, but I also had to factor in the well documented tweaks by quadman (pre DSD512) & his far superior equipment to mine.
Well fast forward to the here & now… I was fortunate to pick-up a lightly used X20u off the AC Trading Post. Received it this morning & played with the X20u & HQPlayer purchased this week. Despite my research, I struggled with the settings & interface with my Mac Mini/ USB connection. Still though, I did get 24 bit/ 384k initially & it sounded really good. After a little more digging & experimenting, I finally got DSD128 dialed in a couple hours ago. Sweet !!!
I’m initially floored by the level of inner detail: the delicacy of some instruments, extended decay, finer delineation of what’s what, more information … but still very smooth sounding & not the least bit strained (I generally like tube(s) in the chain; but not missing it so far). Super impressed ! 16 bit/ 44.1k redbook CD ripped .wav files (which is 90% of my library) have never sounded so good.
I look forward to further listening sessions, doing some of the more modest tweaks, dialing things in better, & some further upgrades (Regen, Roon for better interface than the HQ Player & Tidal. quadman had these features & I left wanting them).
Out of the gate though, it’s hard to believe that I can improve on the high quality sound that I’m hearing from the Gustard X20u. It's a keeper. 8)
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Congrats Brother L. The leap from PCM to DSD is amazing! Glad you are enjoying it....some of the best bang for the buck audio $$ I have spent I believe.
- Martin
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Quick question for X20 users:
Do you use balanced connectors or RCA connectors into you preamp? I ask because I've just ordered a new Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and I'm wondering if I should have XLR connectivity added. (I know. It is a personal decision for everyone.)
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@brother love congratulations you will love the journey with this dac.
@mresseguie I only use single ended outputs and I am at my friends whose dac i modded and he only uses single ended. You have to remember that balanced output doubles the output voltage to 6.6V thats a high signal to send to any preamp or amp so make sure they could handle that type of voltage.
Install of the dac and computer audio set up at my friends is going very well, he has satellite internet with widely varying speeds but we got tidal to stream just fine so he is ecstatic. His new amps the Pass Labs Xa100.8 are the best amps I have heard and made such an impression that I must now get the smaller xa30.8 as I don't need his power level. Right now his DSD256 may be as good or close to my 512 and I know how much of a jump 512 is over 256 so he will be in for another huge treat providing I can get 512 to play stable and install on next trip. His SME30 TT was tweaked by Wally Malewicz and compares vary favorably to digital, the images are larger with his analog rig and that gives the effect of more presence. The geometry of his analog sound stage is smaller and more crowded than digital but listening to either is quite a treat. He is very pleased with the results so far.
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Quick question for X20 users:
Do you use balanced connectors or RCA connectors into you preamp? I ask because I've just ordered a new Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and I'm wondering if I should have XLR connectivity added. (I know. It is a personal decision for everyone.)
Michael,
I use balanced ICs everywhere except tonearm cables. It's mostly dogma--I decided many years ago that balanced was a superior way to go and stuck with it--higher gain and lower noise. The only downside is the fewer choices for gear and interconnects. That being said I'm sure you can get equivalent and perhaps better performance with single-ended ICs.
If you do choose to go balanced, try the Darwin silver ICs--you won't be disappointed!
Evan
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Like Evan, I try and keep everything balanced (lower noise floor). Also my tonearm cable is single-ended.
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Mike,
Im using single ended...wish you could have been here after I installed the dac and Richs server. Transformational to say the least! Michelle and I are loving it! The Vr4's are still not as clear as the speakers you auditioned I expect but they sound soooo much better with this digital set up. - 124 hours on the DAC and still burning in :-)
Enjoy the new Pre-Amp!
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So Ive been away in Denver for the past couple of days, letting the Dac burn in while away. When I left it had 95 hours on it, it now has about 125 hours. Holy shit what a difference has occurred over the break in time....from 69 hours to now the dac has more detail, and the presentation has really relaxed. More air around vocals, the entire presentation has more weight, with acoustic guitars you can hear the body tone of the guitar...something Ive never heard before in my system to this level of detail Every recording sounds better than it ever has, old or new recordings good or bad all benefit from the burn in time. Really enjoying this!, and still not fully burned in! The difference in sound quality and presentation compared to my old CD spinning set up is as if I went out and spent 20 grand on a new system - no BS its that good! Im a happy camper for sure! :thumb:
- Martin
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I'm thinking about upgrading my DAC and the X20 sounds like it's an option, but I have a couple of questions.
Is the 'sound' of the X20 on the cooler, analytical side or the fuller, richer side of the spectrum?
If I use the coax or optical out of my cd player, can the X20 up sample the 16/44 cds to dsd 64 or dsd 128?
Thanks.
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I'm thinking about upgrading my DAC and the X20 sounds like it's an option, but I have a couple of questions.
Is the 'sound' of the X20 on the cooler, analytical side or the fuller, richer side of the spectrum?
If I use the coax or optical out of my cd player, can the X20 up sample the 16/44 cds to dsd 64 or dsd 128?
Thanks.
In my opinion, so far the X20 Dac seems to be on the fuller, richer side of the spectrum although I am hearing more detail than I ever did with a CD player and my old dac. I used the dac with a disc spinner and coaxial connection when I first received it. I put approximately 70 hours on it in this configuration before switching to a server through USB. So it did not fully burn it in through the card it uses for the coax connection, therefore I can't give a final opinion of the sound through the coax input. The X20 does not upsample, it accepts upsampled DSD rates to DSD 512 if you have it configured properly and your output is DSD 512. It will output the frequency that is input only to included native DSD.
Hope this helps
- Martin
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That does clarify it.
Thanks Martin.
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I've added an Uptone Audio Regen Amber to the Gustard X20u equation which is nice. I also replaced both tranny carbon steel bolts/washers/nuts with nylon versions & inserted underneath 2 layers of cardboard doughnuts w/ sticky-sided tape. Wiring bundles twisted & reattached. Next step is finding copper film or insert a hi-fi fuse (see it's 0.5 amp/ 250v slo-blow fuse).
Anyways, everything is connected & playing music. Will do some serious listening later today.
Edit: updated to include loosely tightened nylon bolts/washers/nuts & successfully finding fuse.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=147747)
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Good job Brother...do you hear a noticeable improvement with your mods?
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Good job Brother...do you hear a noticeable improvement with your mods?
Thanks. martinr. Haven't had a chance yet. Still want to try the copper over the fuse as part of the tweaks before auditioning the "sum of the parts". Found this, but it is very thin (30 micron= .0012"): https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Foil-Shielding-Tape-Guitars/dp/B00KLJLNWE/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1470069723&sr=8-8&keywords=copper+foil. Not sure what is thick enough not to tear vs. thin enough to fit properly.
Many thanks to Ric Schultz, quadman & others for their insights to these upgrades & reviews. :thumb:
vvv Thanks quadman! I sent you an email. vvv
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@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable. That would mean it would be May or so production. They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse. If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.
I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback. I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock). After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away. The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise. The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise. I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this. I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.
Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch. In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable :( I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music. piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax. I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one. I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.
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@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable. That would mean it would be May or so production. They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse. If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.
I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback. I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock). After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away. The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise. The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise. I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this. I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.
Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch. In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable :( I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music. piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax. I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one. I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.
Damn!
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@brother love I see you got a newer production X20 with the accusilicon clock and it looks like, thou I am not certain, it has only 1 LVDS chip on the output board right by the white ribbon cable. That would mean it would be May or so production. They apparently changed the fuse as well, mine is a 1A 250V sloblo, well was, as the foil essentially removes the fuse. If you need I have some foil you can use on the fuse, I can bring to work tomorrow and you can pick up there.
I am now feeling confident on the stability of DSD512 playback. I have had almost zero noise the last few days and any noise was noted right after re-powering the dac back up (and hence the clock). After it was under power for a few hours the noise seems to go away. The key to this, I believe, is solid and very stable connections at the I2s lines, any instability will lead to noise. The dac is working to it's limit at 512 and any little thing that is off produces noise. I also found put the cover on the dac, which means the I2S wires must be short 50mm or so to allow this. I even made little spacers out of credit card to slip in the PCIe slot which puts some pressure on the wires making better contact with the I2S wires from the DIY card.
Next project is to solder in a 100MHz clock on the output board near the dac chips, Simon reports that this kicks up the transparency up another notch. In preparation for this I removed my custom silver coax cable and re-installed the stock coax cable :( I noted a slight loss in transparency and involvement in the music. piano/keyboard which I think are almost magical at DSD512 lost some of that magic with the stock coax. I have two different clocks to try the accusilicon one and a abracon one which is power hungry so I will need a bigger regulator then I have to run that one. I am pretty busy the next couple of weekends so not sure when I will get to this, but that stock coax may push me to do sooner than later.
For that critical digital wiring you might want to try thin gauge UPOCC silver... for short runs a single run is probably ok, for longer runs multiple runs in a litz configuration is much better than coax.
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For that critical digital wiring you might want to try thin gauge UPOCC silver... for short runs a single run is probably ok, for longer runs multiple runs in a litz configuration is much better than coax.
Dave I was planning on using Chris Venhaus 24 ga silver with air lock insulation. The wire is only 10mm long or so, tricky soldering in such a tight place. I hadn't heard of the UPOCC wire but it looks interesting, think I'll have to get some for inventory.
Update after listening last night I have to solder in that clock, since my PSU's have been reconfigured I will initially use the Gustards 3.3V supply to power the clock, and then down the road switch to a separate PSU with a nice regulator at the clock. That coax just smooths things over a touch to much and dulls the leading edges, 5 hours of listening last night made me say, I need to replace the clock much sooner than later. I should be able to get it done in an hour or so and then wednesday listen away. Fingers crossed.
In the 5 hours I listened last night there was NO noise, the dac had been on since early Sunday afternoon so the clock is happy and warm. I expect after the new clock goes in it will need 24 hours or so to settle down and give noise free music.
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After a 24 hour warm up with signal, I listened to the new clock last night. This clock does away with the need for the coax cable which only carries the clock signal from the far side of the digital board to the output board, the new clock, of course, eliminates the need for that cable. Now considering I went from custom coax cable, then back to stock coax cable (yuk) then to new clock, major upgrade. The custom silver coax is a nice jump up from the stock coax and the clock is another nice jump up from the custom coax. More transparency, quieter backgrounds, wider deeper stage, more dynamics great tonality. One one track I've played over 60 times the past 2 months there is a piano or keyboard added to the foreground mix the clarity of it and individual notes from it were the best I have ever heard, it just had more separation then any other time, on another well listened to track of a voice and acoustic guitar recorded in a studio the bounce of his voice off the studio wall and the decay of it was the most pronounced and detailed I had ever hear by far. Familiar tracks after track kept revealing more information then I heard before. Not hyper detailed information, the kind that tires you out just natural real music with more there. 6 hours of listening and no funny noises from the 512 setting. Very pleased.
Next down the road I'll try the other clock in my possession, but that needs a separate PSU and bigger regulator than I have now.
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I am interested in the added clock mod. Please post a photo of it in place. Thanks.
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Hi, guys, great thread... Since I`m not much of an expert in the field of DACs I`d have a newbie question - If I get myself Gustard, can I connect it to Raspberry, which would take a role of a renderer in this case (connected to my NAS) with let`s say Rune or Moode installed? How would I connect the two - by USB cable? How about purchasing a device like Auralic Aries - would that be a better option? I guess it should be connected via USB cable to the Gustard or maybe spdif/toslink? Someone mentioned High Speed USB Isolator - is that a mandatory part in this constellation or does it just contribute to better SQ? Any help would be much appreciated..
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Quick question for X20 users:
Do you use balanced connectors or RCA connectors into you preamp? I ask because I've just ordered a new Don Sachs SP14 preamp, and I'm wondering if I should have XLR connectivity added. (I know. It is a personal decision for everyone.)
Hey Now Michael,
I use balanced out of my X20 into a Pass designed BOSOZ (Bride of Son of Zen) pre-amp with adjustable input and it sounds fine, terrific really. I use Monarchy Audio SM70 Pro mono blocks into some Omega speakers. Since switching to an Intel NUC w/NAA as a music renderer my music sounds really good upsampled to DSD 256 via HQPlayer. Couldn't be happier with this inexpensive investment.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Hi, guys, great thread... Since I`m not much of an expert in the field of DACs I`d have a newbie question - If I get myself Gustard, can I connect it to Raspberry, which would take a role of a renderer in this case (connected to my NAS) with let`s say Rune or Moode installed? How would I connect the two - by USB cable? How about purchasing a device like Auralic Aries - would that be a better option? I guess it should be connected via USB cable to the Gustard or maybe spdif/toslink? Someone mentioned High Speed USB Isolator - is that a mandatory part in this constellation or does it just contribute to better SQ? Any help would be much appreciated..
Hey Now Samuel,
Before I got my Intel NUC, I used an RPi2 with Volumio via USB into the X20 with good results. I first used Volumio and enjoyed the RPi2 very much with the Spotify integration, it just worked and sounded good. Then I got Roon, HQPlayer and then upped the ante, installed the NAA image onto to the RPi2. This allowed me to stream native DSD to the X20, albeit only up to DSD128 is all. I got the Intel NUC and now stream DSD256 with no issues on an iMac i5 build.
The RPi2 is now in the bedroom via powerline Ethernet with the NAA image outputting via USB to an iFi Micro DSD. I can only get DSD128, but it sounds really good. I also use double Regens (one green and one amber each) into the X20 and iFi Micro DSD. I don't like having them out of the chain.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Chris,
Very cool info. It's much appreciated.
Keep on truckin'...
Just another 10 days till I'm back in my house with my upgraded system in an empty living room. :hyper:
Michael
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Chris,
Very cool info. It's much appreciated.
Keep on truckin'...
Just another 10 days till I'm back in my house with my upgraded system in an empty living room. :hyper:
Michael
I will bring your sub back so the empty room will really BOOM :thumb:
Alan
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It all seems I have this DAC on my radar as well. :green:
Forum member rklein has one for sale and I'm about to pull the trigger.
However before I do so I need to make sure that I can get the Thesycon driver which enables dsd256. I am not looking for the test version/the one that beeps after some playing time.
Is there anyone on this circle who would be willing to help? Feel free to send me a PM.
Cheers,
David
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anyone have the diyinhk 3.34 drivers they can upload and pm me a link?
They are no longer available and 3.38 doesn't work for the gustard apparently. Thanks in advance!
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also if someone can point out their hqplayer settings?
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All, I am hoping to get a little help. I have upgraded my Audirvana Plus app so that I can try upsampling to DSD. However, when I try to set the Gustard to DSD, the multifunction knob skips right over the setting where you can choose PCM or DSD. For example, I choose my input (USB) and then when I should go to the PCM/DSD input, it sends me directly to filter choices. Am I doing something wrong?
For what it's worth, in Audirvana only shows the DAC (identified as xCORE USB audio 2.0 output) with a built in output of 44.1, 48, and 96. I know it does 192 in PCM so that stumps me also.
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As I thought, the issue was user error. I got it working. It will be interesting to see how this compares to PCM
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As I thought, the issue was user error. I got it working. It will be interesting to see how this compares to PCM
I couldn't get my Gustard to convert PCM to DSD. How did you do it?
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I couldn't get my Gustard to convert PCM to DSD. How did you do it?
The issue was in my settings in Audirvana. I adjusted it to select DSD over PCm 1.1 and it then let me convert to DSD. Once that was fixed, the Gustard automatically switched from PCM to DSD
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The issue was in my settings in Audirvana. I adjusted it to select DSD over PCm 1.1 and it then let me convert to DSD. Once that was fixed, the Gustard automatically switched from PCM to DSD
Thanks. hmmm... says it has trouble with the Volume control if i do this. (I really don't want the pre-amp back in the system)
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Thanks. hmmm... says it has trouble with the Volume control if i do this. (I really don't want the pre-amp back in the system)
If I remember correctly, I got the same message and just hit the ok button. You just have to make sure that the volume in Audirvana is set at 100% in the settings.
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Ok its been almost 1 month that I have had the clock soldered into the gustard on the output board and 2 weeks that I have used an external 5V PSU running to a twisted pear trident 3.3V regulator right in front of the clock. As I mentioned before the clock mod is a major upgrade, perhaps only beaten out by the success of DSD512. This is a relatively easy step to do provided you have soldering skills and the knowledge to do it. Using the gustards internal PSU is the easiest way to do this, but using an external PSU with a regulator by the clock is another step up from the gustard's internal PSU.
The easiest (low power) clock to source is a crystek CCHD-950x from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crystek-Corporation/CCHD-950X-25-100000/?qs=L4klnTtkofObrfUJUtC8ig%3D%3D it has a very low current draw and is favorably reviewed in other threads. You only need 3 wires soldered to this clock to make it work, pins/pads 2, 3 and 4. You also need to make sure you have a .1uf ceramic capacitor type x7r between the Vin and ground pads. There are 4 pads around the output boards coax tower one is even labeled 3v3 (3.3 Vdc). Using a ohm meter with continuity test you can easily identify the other two using the coax tower as reference (center signal, outer part ground). Now if you attempt this and make a mistake it is not my fault, you need the basic knowledge and soldering skills to do this, if not find someone who can. The best part this mod is easily reversible, just desolder the wires from the pads and re-connect the coax cable.
So to make a significant upgrade to your dac I suggest doing the first 3 AC mods in Ric Schultz level 1 mod (twist AC lines, replace fuse with audiophile fuse or wrap in copper foil, remove steel hardware from trannys and raise on cardboard) and replace the coax cable with a clock soldered on the output board as described.
Those 4 steps will significantly raise the level of your dac. BTW clocks take time to break in and probably account for the majority of a new dac's break in. I felt after 100 hours with signal that the clock was pretty settled and any change from there was very subtle.
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Ok its been almost 1 month that I have had the clock soldered into the gustard on the output board and 2 weeks that I have used an external 5V PSU running to a twisted pear trident 3.3V regulator right in front of the clock. As I mentioned before the clock mod is a major upgrade, perhaps only beaten out by the success of DSD512. This is a relatively easy step to do provided you have soldering skills and the knowledge to do it. Using the gustards internal PSU is the easiest way to do this, but using an external PSU with a regulator by the clock is another step up from the gustard's internal PSU.
The easiest (low power) clock to source is a crystek CCHD-950x from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crystek-Corporation/CCHD-950X-25-100000/?qs=L4klnTtkofObrfUJUtC8ig%3D%3D it has a very low current draw and is favorably reviewed in other threads. You only need 3 wires soldered to this clock to make it work, pins/pads 2, 3 and 4. You also need to make sure you have a .1uf ceramic capacitor type x7r between the Vin and ground pads. There are 4 pads around the output boards coax tower one is even labeled 3v3 (3.3 Vdc). Using a ohm meter with continuity test you can easily identify the other two using the coax tower as reference (center signal, outer part ground). Now if you attempt this and make a mistake it is not my fault, you need the basic knowledge and soldering skills to do this, if not find someone who can. The best part this mod is easily reversible, just desolder the wires from the pads and re-connect the coax cable.
So to make a significant upgrade to your dac I suggest doing the first 3 AC mods in Ric Schultz level 1 mod (twist AC lines, replace fuse with audiophile fuse or wrap in copper foil, remove steel hardware from trannys and raise on cardboard) and replace the coax cable with a clock soldered on the output board as described.
Those 4 steps will significantly raise the level of your dac. BTW clocks take time to break in and probably account for the majority of a new dac's break in. I felt after 100 hours with signal that the clock was pretty settled and any change from there was very subtle.
Can i have a look at the internals with these mods?
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Crystek 950 clock is now part of level one mod. Thanks to Simon and Quadman for doing this first. I also bypass the clock power supply with one of my modded .33 Wima caps to good effect. I will try a better regulator on the next one I mod.......I am sure it will be better than the stock power supply (will raise the price somewhat). Always learning....always more to do. I just added a small pic on my site showing the clock mounted.
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This DAC really shines with DSD (now upsampling using Audirvana). The Mac seems to be working really hard to upsampling so I am thinking about getting a new machine and trying a HQPlayer/mRendu combination. To get to 256, are there any drivers that need to be installed on a Windows computer?
The DAC sometimes seems finicky in picking up DSD. I don't want to go to the effort of using HQPlayer and then not have it work.
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Sruffle,
Which model is your Mac, how much RAM, and how old is it?
My Mac Mini is just 2+ years old, 8 Gb RAM, hybrid HDD/SSD. I have not yet installed Audirvana.
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I have an early 2009 MacMini running Yosemite. It has 8 GB Ram and a Core2 processor. The Drive is a SSD. I recommend giving Audirvana a try.
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I apologize for copying one of my posts form another forum but it is so long I don't want to retype. It regards a comparison of my Gustard vs the T&A Dac 8 DSD and some comments on how great music is at DSD512.
I have (had) a T&A Dac 8 DSD in house. I was building a audio PC for a friend to incorporate, Roon, HQ player, Tidal and Audio Fidelizger so he could move into audio streaming after his very old Meridian Sooloos bit the dust. Well I had the Dac for approximately 20 days and ran it a little over 200 hours with music signal which 99.5% was at DSD512. Of course I compared it to my very heavily modified Gustard which has full Level 1 mod, a DIYinHK DSD512 USB to I2S card and a Abracon OCXO 100mHz clock soldered at the coax tower with a Acko regulator in front of it to provide clean power. Both the DSD card and Acko regulators are powered from external PSU's. My dac is fully DSD512 capable and is very stable at that resolution. As far as I know I am the only one who is getting DSD512 from this dac, at least in the forums I follow.
DSD512 is where the magic happens, going from DSD128-DSD256 is a subtle but nice jump, going from 256 to 512 is strangely a huge jump, one that I have no real technical explanation for. Common sense says you have a music file which is, most likely, 16/44.1 redbook resolution and you take this file and with the magic of HQ Player upsample it many, many times to DSD512. How can that improve it? If I have a photo at say 720P resolution and I suddenly increase (upsample) it to 4K resolution wouldn't the pixels now be more obvious, wouldn't it look worse? Strangely that does not happen when up sampling music and 512 is just more real, more being at the event than listening to a recording of the event. Background noise is lower, way lower (not measured) transparency is then obviously greater, leading edges better defined, bass becomes more focused and impactful, separation of the performers is greater and more 3D. Some very good recordings have made me gasp at how real the voice, guitar or violin can be. Almost eerie. I love it and I am never going back.
On my very first listen to the T&A at 512, it was not apples to apples (to the X20). The dac had a cheap power cord, and a stock USB cable, I did not have Roon or Audio Fidelizer pro on it. The dac also had just a few hours on it and it sounded thin and un-involving. As the hours on it increased and my work to make the comparison as close as possible continued I was finally ready to compare. Both dacs had the same power cable, the T&A had a slightly better USB cable from the same manufacture. Both Dacs had Roon, HQ Player and Audio Fidelizger Pro. Each dac was run from separate PC's but both PC's used Gigabyte MB's with Dac-UP USB out, seasonic PSU's and Win10 pro and the same power cords plugged into the same conditioner.. The Gustard was its usual very involving self, I just love the way it plays back music at DSD512. The T&A became a refinement of the Gustard they were close and I'll bet a lot of untrained folks would struggle to hear the difference. It had a bit quieter background, transparency was up a notch, leading edges had a bit more definition bass had more detail. where the pluck of a double bass string the resonance of it in wood body was more evident that with the Gustard, thou it may not of had the weight (close tho) that the X20 has. Also the separation and 3D placement of musicians was a bit more obvious. It also felt just a bit more real than the Gustard, less recorded more there. Now these are just subtle differences that I bet a lot of folks would not be aware of, but differences non-the-less that audiophiles pay huge $ for those type of gains. On another night I swapped the better USB cable on the T&A with the next one down the line in the Gustard, the gap closed slightly but I still give the nod to the T&A. I suspect if I decide to pop for the $400+ Pulsar OCXO clock the gap would almost vanish. For $4K the T&A may be the best sounding DSD512 Dac available and it is 44k and 48k compatible unlike the gustard which is only 44K. What that means is a 48K based files (24/48,96,192) is up sampled to 24.6 Mhz and a 44.1 file is up sampled to 22.6 mHz so in HQ Player you can check auto rate family which will lessen the CPU/GPU load somewhat. The Gustard will upsamaple 48K based files to 22.6, which increases CPU load as it essentially has to down sample from 24.6 to 22.6 mHz.
Tuesday I packed the T&A up to send to my buddy and next week I fly to install his new PC and T&A and it goes into a state of the art analog system with a modified struder reel to reel with very high quality tapes, and a SME30MK2 TT with top of the line dynavector cartridge. So we will see where the T&A at DSD512 fits into that picture. Last night I had to listen to just my Gustard and was not disappointed, it still is very involving, very transparent and very real like. Like I said they are close but ultimately if I had to choose just one cost not a consideration I pick the T&A. The consolation prize is not bad tho.
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Thanks for this update Quadman.....I plan to send my stock X20 to Ric Shultz probably in December for the level 1 upgrade plus clock....I am upsampling redbook/flac files to DSD 128 through Foobar, would have to purchase the Singxer-SU-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-interface-PCM-384kHz-DSD256-I2S-HDMI-output to upsample to DSD 256...seems to me the level 1 mod with clock although more expensive than the Singxer will render a better bang for the buck upgrade at this point than upsampling from DSD 128 to 256.....any other suggestions you might have are greatly appreciated!
Happy Listening... :thumb:
- Martin
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Has anyone compared the Gustard X20U to the Ayre Codex?
How well would the Gustard drive McCormack DNA1 DLX amps directly via balanced inputs?
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Has anyone compared the Gustard X20U to the Ayre Codex?
How well would the Gustard drive McCormack DNA1 DLX amps directly via balanced inputs?
It drove my Modwright 150 SE via balanced or rca.
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It drove my Modwright 150 SE via balanced or rca.
Did you notice any difference running balanced?
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Did you notice any difference running balanced?
[/quotse]
Just the price of the cable :thumb:
Maybe some gain or punch. I usally run the MW in low gain so as to save a $$. But I kick it up for real listening and there is a minor improvement. I run 94 db speakers.
Alan
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"Hi is there a Gustard x20u Pro coming out soon?
Hi Steven. Yes,in will come out end of November. Best regards Kerwin Shenzhenaudio"
Any idea of this?
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Quadman, thanks for your post. Very interesting to hear about your experiences with 256 and 512.
Out of curiosity, has anyone been getting DSD 256 from a Mac? I'm currently using Audirvana to upsample to DSD but may try out HQPlayer if it allows me to get to 256 or 512.
I was pretty surprised at the nice difference in SQ once I started upsampling to DSD. I can only imagine what 512 is like.
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X20U Pro will have 2 of the new ESS 9028 DAC chips. $899.99 $30 more than the last one. Resonessence charges $1000 more for their updated DAC with two 9028s.....I like $30 better! Will be fun to see how much better sounding is the 9028 than the 9018. So far, no reports from anywhere?
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So, they will have two lines available, A20H with AKM flagship AK4497. For different sound quality tastes I guess...
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. . . . Out of curiosity, has anyone been getting DSD 256 from a Mac? . . . . .
Hey Now,
Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
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Hey Now,
Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
Chris,
Thank you for the reminder. Key posts seem to fall into the cracks after so many posts.
What have you got for your DIY streamer?
Michael
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. . . . What have you got for your DIY streamer?
Michael
Hey Now Michael,
I use an Intel NUC (Atom processor, Intel Thin Canyon NUC Kit DE3815TYKHE) with a variant of Mivera Audio (http://www.miveraaudio.com)'s SuperServe OS with HQPlayer NAA installed. Only essential items are turned on. I was using a RPi2 before, but this NUC sounds amazing. Total cost was about $220 and some time configuring the NUC BIOS and USB 3.0 thumb drive. Rock solid and sounds very good. The best my digital has ever sounded.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
edit: corrected SuperStreamer to SuperServe, added Intel NUC model.
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Deleted double post. Don't know why that happens from my iPhone(?).
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Hey Now,
Check out post #299. It shows my chain with an iMac playing DSD256 on the Gustard. Sounds terrific.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
Thanks!
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Hey Now Michael,
I use an Intel NUC (Atom processor) with a variant of Mivera Audio's SuperStreamer OS with
HQPlayer NAA installed. Only essential items are turned on. I was using a RPi2 before, but
this NUC sounds amazing. Total cost was about $220 and some time configuring the NUC BIOS
and USB 3.0 thumb drive. Rock solid and sounds very good. The best my digital has ever
sounded.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
Intel NUC's don't get a lot of attention around here, but I love my NUC5i7RYH with two Samsung 500GB solid state drives. I agree, best digital I've ever owned. I use Windows 10 with just about everything turned off. I don't own a Gustard, but wanted to give a thumbs up to using a NUC as a streamer.
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Don't know how many have experimented with the different DOP playback methods using Foobar or other players - last night I tried the various playback methods offered in Foobar and by far the PCM to DSD method SDM Type C (FP64) sounded the best. If you are using a different method (some instructions for different dacs recommend type "D"), I suggest you give type C a try. Instruments are better defined, soundstage is deeper and overall air around the instruments and vocals is much better than say type D. Of course this is with the Hal MS-3 server playing FLAC files- your experience might be different. (experiment at your own risk) :D
Just my 2 cents.
Happy Listening!
-Martin
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I'm new to this forum but have had my x20u (mod1) for almost a year. Having identified DSD up sampling is the way to go I zeroed in on foobar with windows 10 on an old HP 8440p (compared to jriver). Dsd128 dop was good but I thought I could do better. I bought an u12 and realised dsd256 dop using i2s. I then started having stability issues with the xMOS driver and decided to look for something else. I was also conscious of what I presume to be jitter creating confusion on loud orchestral pieces so I decided to build a purpose built audio PC. Zeroed in on an intel dual core g4400 CPU with clock speed 3.4ghz. I also discovered the free daphile Linux audio os. The result has been a big improvement largely I think to the ability to drive the x20 USB with native dsd256 using the out of the box daphile xmos drivers. The cpu runs at 50%. Note you can load daphile from a USB stick on top of your current os as an initial trial. There is an issue with the current release with 24bit music which has been fixed in a beta. Daphile builds on the Logitech lms for which there exist android (orange) and iOS (ipeng) tablet control systems. My next upgrade will be to try an i5 6600t to lessen the load on the CPU!
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Thanks for commenting on your experiences. Was 256 with the U12 a significant step up from 128 over DOP?
I'm curious enough because I have a U12 that is currently not in use. I'm wondering if inserting another piece in the chain will cause some loss of detail versus going straight into the USB on the X20. There is also the question of what type of HDMI cable to use (I have no idea if the quality of HDMI cables will impact the sound)
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I've been using my Gustard X-20u as a DAC/Pre for the last few months. i though it sounded pretty good but I just finished my LDR/Pass B1 buffer pre-amp and it showed me that the X-20 really needs a pre. With the pre-amp the music has a bit more weight and bass sounds more tuneful. I did wish the pre-amp made no difference as the less boxes the better.
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Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...
1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed
Thanks
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Thanks for commenting on your experiences. Was 256 with the U12 a significant step up from 128 over DOP?
I'm curious enough because I have a U12 that is currently not in use. I'm wondering if inserting another piece in the chain will cause some loss of detail versus going straight into the USB on the X20. There is also the question of what type of HDMI cable to use (I have no idea if the quality of HDMI cables will impact the sound)
Listening to classical orchestral with dsd256 and the u12 I found improved transients and bigger soundstage. The improvement was slightly better and more satisfying than moving from dsd64 to dsd128. I used the shortest HDMI cable I could find for the i2s connectivity (30cm). Adding devices in the digital realm has less impact than analog but make sure you have short cables! with good connectors!
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Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...
1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed
Thanks
I think a lot depends on your other equipment. Compared to my original gustard x10 I found the x20 improved staging, slightly more forward, better dynamics and less clinical. It is not a warm sound although pairing with a valve preamp removes some of the chill.
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Listening to classical orchestral with dsd256 and the u12 I found improved transients and bigger soundstage. The improvement was slightly better and more satisfying than moving from dsd64 to dsd128. I used the shortest HDMI cable I could find for the i2s connectivity (30cm). Adding devices in the digital realm has less impact than analog but make sure you have short cables! with good connectors!
Thanks for that info. I will have to give it a try at some point. I just got a newer MacMini that should have the processing power to let me do 256
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Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...
1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed
Thanks
1&3
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1&3
...and if you prefer 2 you choose obviously A20H.
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Thanks Everyone for your feedback.
@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!
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Nuprime DAC-9
Musical Paradise MP-D2
On SS and one tube. Both use the AKM 4490 chipset. I've had the Musical Paradise for about six months and it allows for vast amounts of tube and capacitor rolling and combinations.
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The new Gustard X20U Pro is about to start shipping. It uses two of the new ESS Pro DACs.....the 9028. It will be interesting to see what the DAC change will bring. Here is a preview of a DAC using this chip that describes why the new chips are better. We could have a serious game changer here....we will know soon. Maybe the ESS "sound" will be more analog now. I find it fine as it is....but I always want more.
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/resonessence/2.html
Another description of possible sonic benefits:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/dac3-introducing-the-new-es9028pro-converter
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Ric-I have your modded Oppo BDP-105 (and really love the sound btw),didn't I read the 9028 pro is a direct drop in replacement for the 9018 in my Oppo? I realize the Gustard has one per channel to the Oppo's single but I really love the Oppo's ability to do Blu Ray Audio,24/96 DVD,DVD-A and HDCD plus I don't have the money (or space ) right how for a seperate DAC.Would any of us be able to get 9028 pro chips through you to upgrade or are there any suppliers that sell these to the consumer direct?
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The DACs are pin compatible but desoldering the old one and putting in a new one? Whoa! You would probably have to remove most of the electrolytic caps around the DAC and have a proper hot air soldering/desoldering station (me no have).....and then you might have to re-program the chip to make it work. Very tricky and tweaky to change surface mount smallish parts with tiny pins REAL close together. Not for the faint of heart. Anotherwords.....don't think anyone is going to upgrade their 9018 to a 9028 unless the board is very open with very little parts around it. But, some people will try most anything. I am seriously crazy but no way would I try this. I am sure there are ways to get the chip. Back in the 90s the DAC chips were large and had big pins and you could literally solder each pin individually. Now the are flat surface mount things with a million tiny pins. Slight exaggeration....how about 64 pins.
A DAC chip change alone will not give everything someone wants. No silver bullets here. For instance, I am pretty sure the stock Oppo Sonica DAC (with single 9038 chip) will not sound anywhere near as good as a stock Gustard PRO. Oppo does not use good power supply parts, resistors, has coupling caps on the output, etc. etc.). The Gustard is pretty tweaky right out of the gate except for some overlooked but important easy to do mods. I am hoping the new ESS DAC chips make a serious difference (we shall know soon) by themselves but everything you do to a player/DAC changes the sound.
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Ric-Do you have any idea what kind of clock Gustard will use this time around? Will it be the same one (non Femto)? I know the precision of the clock has a lot to do with how good a particular DAC design will sound at the end.
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The last version of the old X20U used a Femto clock from Accusilicon.....pretty much the same specs as Crystek. The problem is, they have the clock on the digital board and run the clock signal through a coax cable between the digital and output boards. As part of my basic mod I create a custom coax and hardwire between the boards and bypass the coax connectors for better sound. My $100 clock upgrade consists of removing the coax connector at the DAC board and installing a Crystek clock right by the DACs and eliminating the coax cable. I power this clock from a hand made shunt regulator of my own design. I suspect that Gustard will keep the same arrangement with this new DAC but we will not know till we see a real picture of the insides of the new DAC. Currently, the pics all shown on the ads are of the old DAC. I will probably offer the expensive Italian Pulsar Clock clock as an upgrade. It is suppose to sound way better than the Crystek. It better, for >$400.....the Crystek is $31.
http://www.pulsarclock.com/ENHome.html
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Thanks Everyone for your feedback.
@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!
Why don't you have a look at this
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-a20h-hifi-dac-headphone-amplifier-double-ak4497eq-xmos-dsd256-384khz.html
AKM's flagship chips produce probably what you want.
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Yes, "probably" is a good guess as the AKM DAC chips are reputed to be warmer than ESS chips. However, everything you do can change the sound. I can make an ESS DAC sound warm as anything. We have no idea how this new AKM Gustard sounds versus the new ESS Pro Gustard unit until someone A/Bs them. The new ESS DAC chips may indeed sound more "warm". We have no idea yet until one arrives here...hopefully shortly. Other companies are shipping or about to ship DACs with the new ESS DACs in them so there will be feedback over the next several months.....starting possibly with the comments on the Resonessence unit about to be reviewed on 6moons. Stay tuned.
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Yes, "probably" is a good guess as the AKM DAC chips are reputed to be warmer than ESS chips. However, everything you do can change the sound. I can make an ESS DAC sound warm as anything. We have no idea how this new AKM Gustard sounds versus the new ESS Pro Gustard unit until someone A/Bs them. The new ESS DAC chips may indeed sound more "warm". We have no idea yet until one arrives here...hopefully shortly. Other companies are shipping or about to ship DACs with the new ESS DACs in them so there will be feedback over the next several months.....starting possibly with the comments on the Resonessence unit about to be reviewed on 6moons. Stay tuned.
See milezone's post
http://www.head-fi.org/t/819083/gustard-a20h-dac-dual-ak4497eq-analog-preamp-headphone-amp-all-in-one/60
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No real info there, except he says it sounds dry and clear......compared to what? And he is listening on headphones. We need a direct A/B with the new Pro unit using speakers to know anything about the sound differences. I could make is sound way less "dry". No problem.
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No real info there, except he says it sounds dry and clear......compared to what? And he is listening on headphones. We need a direct A/B with the new Pro unit using speakers to know anything about the sound differences. I could make is sound way less "dry". No problem.
Yeah, not really. Except he seems to be happy with it :)
And what I thought was interesting: "Playing direct out of the balanced out to a pair of Genelec active monitors yields excellent results."
I totally agree that the whole setting is what makes result. That's why trying to suggest someone something is always at best a good guess.
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Is there an argument for ordering the Gustard X20U Pro without the USB? Would it be better to use a digital interface such as the Singxer SU1 for the best SQ? You can save ~$70 sans USB and put that money into a separate USB box. Which one?
Hmm.... :scratch:
Maybe I should get the integrated, just $70 so I can have something while I sort this all out.
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Thanks Everyone for your feedback.
@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!
Now we have some A20H/X20 comparison, obviously only with headphones and of course not with X20pro
http://www.head-fi.org/t/819083/gustard-a20h-dac-dual-ak4497eq-analog-preamp-headphone-amp-all-in-one/75#post_13017403
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Looks like the X20 Pro is starting to come out.
X20 Pro (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-pro-super-ultimate-2-x-es9028-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html)
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I never trust those headphone comparison :nono: :nono:,there so much going on with speakers that headphone can't pick up.
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Looks like the X20 Pro is starting to come out.
X20 Pro (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-pro-super-ultimate-2-x-es9028-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html)
If those are the real pictures of the dac at first glance the only difference appears to be the 9028 chip vs the 9018 chip plus a few cosmetics. The output stage has a few new parts but that could just be mfg change, Ric would know more about that. Not sure how much better the 9028 handles 512 as my "old X20u" is very stable on 512 and sounds stunning. Not sure it is worth the upgrade but new adaptors get 256 out of the box. Which old adaptors can do pretty easily with a different driver.
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The only difference I see is a different manufacturer of the relays. The newer unit has more options for digital filter selection.
The old one has already become an rare highly desirable antique, so they have raised the price considerably....he he:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html
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Hot damn! At that price it MUST be good.
:rotflmao:
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The only difference I see is a different manufacturer of the relays. The newer unit has more options for digital filter selection.
The old one has already become an rare highly desirable antique, so they have raised the price considerably....he he:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html
I'm happy to sell mine to anyone for under $2000USD
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I'm happy to sell mine to anyone for under $2000USD
Must be a fixer-upper... I'll skip on that one :roll: :green:
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Have been playing with the new Gustard X20U Pro and can say for sure that it is way better than the older version. These new 9028 DAC chips just have lower noise and distortion. There is just way more information in every way. Way more real. Not more juicy or warm....the basic tonal color and everything is the same. For instance, you hear every string resonate with all its harmonics....so it just sounds more richly real. The 9018 DAC chip is muddy, by comparison. The new Gustard Pro with my level one mod sounds better than the older DAC with my level 2.5 mods! However, stock it is just good. You will not hear all the glorious new details from the DAC chips with a stock unit. The main CD I use to test with now sounds like 24/96....really! I had no idea of how much musical information was on the disc. By the way, if you are not using the usb input it sounds better to remove the usb board. I am using coax from my modded Oppo 103. Amazing sound! I cannot wait to try the $400 Pulsar clock in it (suppose to kill the industry standard $30 Crystek clock so many use.
So, the older ESS DACs are now history. You will see every manufacturer who uses ESS DACs in the next year update to these chips.....yes, they are incredible! Several manufacturers already have product with the 9028 and a few are just starting to ship with the 9038 (Ayre has had their 9038 based DAC out for months....they have close relationship with ESS so got the chips first). "Who wants yesterdays DAC chip, who wants yesterdays girl....nobody in the world"....he he...sing along.
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Hi Ric, was wondering how much burn time you have on the new Gustard Pro , when you wrote this , alot of folks say about 200 hours before it really sounds good ?
Pat
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Hi again. Seeking user comments on the a20h. How is it? Narrowed it down to the Teac UD503 and the a20h. I am after a warm, full and romantic sounding dac. Thanks.
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Is there an argument for ordering the Gustard X20U Pro without the USB? Would it be better to use a digital interface such as the Singxer SU1 for the best SQ? You can save ~$70 sans USB and put that money into a separate USB box. Which one?
Hmm.... :scratch:
Maybe I should get the integrated, just $70 so I can have something while I sort this all out.
Interesting question. Even though I'm using a different Dac I've been lurking to see if any Gustard users have also adopted various spdif converters/reclock solutions. I don't think anyone has. At the very least a Singxer F-1 should be in the mix for anyone using USB or the SU-1. Unless there is something really special about the Sabre chip design, I have a feeling folks could be getting more from their Gustard (outside of Ric's upgrades). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-Interface-384K-Coaxial-I2S-DSD256-With-case-/201716223254?hash=item2ef7394d16:g:kmMAAOSwImRYSfj8
Ric have you explored flip flop reclocks with these dacs? Specifically with the potato semi chips? Granted I have a different dac (Soekris R2R), but every iteration of a flip reclock I tried (and I tried a lot of variations) resulted in improved sound quality. Only comparable discussions I've seen are with the acko reclocks at diyaudio and the more obscure but brilliant work by some folks at tirnahifi forum. Seems like it'd be up your alley.
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Right now I would say I have at least 300-400 hours on my Pro. I think it is burned in! You really don't need to do much burn in to hear what mods do. The mods will do the same whether it is burned in or not. Burn in makes very little difference compared to modding.....and this is with years of experience.'
There is no schematic with the Pro. There is no way to find all the separate clocks or lines.....this thing is super dense and multi layered board....so flip flop reclocking or whatever is not in the works.
Singxer will be releasing a version of their thang with DSD512 capabilities soon. This way you can upsample to DSD512 using HQplayer in a powerful
Windows 10 computer and run an HDMI cable into the I2S input of the Gustard and hear the glory of HQplayers upsampling to DSD512.....suppose to be magic.
Just now ordering the Pulsar clock for my Gustard.....whoa baby! Please see posts number 37 and 59 for comparisons to industry standard Crystek:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/258789-pulsar-clock-ultra-low-noise-ocxo-4.html
The Gustard is not warm, full and romantic. It is accurate......when modded to the hilt, that is. Stock it is OK. If I were looking in the under $4000 price range for those qualities and more than this is what I would seriously look at.....it has dual mono AKM chips and nothing but tubes on the output....really nicely built....and you can change the coupling caps and tubes easily so you tubeheads will keep busy for months playing around with it.:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80
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Right now I would say I have at least 300-400 hours on my Pro. I think it is burned in! You really don't need to do much burn in to hear what mods do. The mods will do the same whether it is burned in or not. Burn in makes very little difference compared to modding.....and this is with years of experience.'
There is no schematic with the Pro. There is no way to find all the separate clocks or lines.....this thing is super dense and multi layered board....so flip flop reclocking or whatever is not in the works.
Singxer will be releasing a version of their thang with DSD512 capabilities soon. This way you can upsample to DSD512 using HQplayer in a powerful
Windows 10 computer and run an HDMI cable into the I2S input of the Gustard and hear the glory of HQplayers upsampling to DSD512.....suppose to be magic.
Just now ordering the Pulsar clock for my Gustard.....whoa baby! Please see posts number 37 and 59 for comparisons to industry standard Crystek:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/258789-pulsar-clock-ultra-low-noise-ocxo-4.html
The Gustard is not warm, full and romantic. It is accurate......when modded to the hilt, that is. Stock it is OK. If I were looking in the under $4000 price range for those qualities and more than this is what I would seriously look at.....it has dual mono AKM chips and nothing but tubes on the output....really nicely built....and you can change the coupling caps and tubes easily so you tubeheads will keep busy for months playing around with it.:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=80
OMG that DAC looks awesome. Quality parts too. Dale resistors, Rubycon caps, Obbligatos... for $1k? Amazing.
Ah too bad about the reclocking/flip flop. That's a piece of the puzzle that will continue to remain under the radar I guess.
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Dale resistors are ordinary. I only use them in non critical places. Nude Vishays wipe their butt (Dales cost 10 cents...Vishays cost $12). So do surface mount Susumu (15 cents). And those cap terminals are going to eat up detail. Nice to A/B caps with but please take the board out and remove them suckers! Solder the caps directly to the board. Probably needs better rectifier diodes, WA Quantum chips, damping, power supply bypassing, remounting power transformers (not shown). etc......but still....stock it looks great for the money.
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Hey, everyone just a quick update. Ric called me last week about a new mod he tried that he was convinced would blow my mind, This weekend I installed the mod and I must say he was right it made a VERY nice and significant change to the (old x20u) dac, (he performed it in a pro version) More body and weight for everything, vocalists and instruments, which also makes the stage appear larger and clearer with more information. I was very impressed. He is talking about offering this mod and possibly the AC mod together at a much lower price point then his full level 1 mod is priced now. This could be a huge step up in SQ for little $.
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I thought I would join the party.
I received my Gustard X-20 Pro yesterday afternoon, purchased from Shenzhenaudio in China. If anyone has any doubts about them, they were great,
First thing I did was pop the top and twist the wires, didn't install the cardboard doughnuts because it was pouring rain and the socket to remove the nuts was in the shed. So I plugged it in and gave a listen.
I had some preconceived ideas as to the brightness and maybe some harshness right out of the box and some other ESS chips I'd heard. We'll, it was nice, but a little soft and warm. Even my wife sat down and said "I can't hear any of the details" and she hardly ever says anything about the audio. Now I do have an all tube system and it can be on the soft side but thats why I wanted something with more detail, obviously not harshness, but detail.
Is this other owners first opinions?
Also, I let to run all night, with Spotify running through a Mac mini via a USB cable and the sound is very static barley able to discern the song though the static. It reads 192 on the display which I know can't be correct. Any ideas as to why Spotify would be static? When I run the sound though the internal speakers of the Mac Mini it sounds fine.
Thanks,
John
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Also, I let to run all night, with Spotify running through a Mac mini via a USB cable and the sound is very static barley able to discern the song though the static. It reads 192 on the display which I know can't be correct. Any ideas as to why Spotify would be static? When I run the sound though the internal speakers of the Mac Mini it sounds fine.
Thanks,
John
I had a similar issue on my mac book pro when I first used it with the x20 Pro. I solved the issue by creating a new audio device in the Audio MIDI setup:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202968
Make sure the usb cord in connected to your mac and to the DAC, then Click on the + sign down at the bottom left and select 'Create Aggregate Device'. On the right hand side after the new device is added, make sure the only use selected is the 'xCore USB Audio 2.0 Output'.
This removed the static I was hearing and made for a clean signal.
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I had a similar issue on my mac book pro when I first used it with the x20 Pro. I solved the issue by creating a new audio device in the Audio MIDI setup:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202968
Make sure the usb cord in connected to your mac and to the DAC, then Click on the + sign down at the bottom left and select 'Create Aggregate Device'. On the right hand side after the new device is added, make sure the only use selected is the 'xCore USB Audio 2.0 Output'.
This removed the static I was hearing and made for a clean signal.
Thanks Mies,
It worked like a charm. I'm getting non static Spotify now. Still running in the Gustard Pro. Sounding more sharp and detailed, not nessisarily in a good way. But, currently I am running streamed Spotify, so not exactly the best source.
Thanks again.
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Thanks Mies,
It worked like a charm. I'm getting non static Spotify now. Still running in the Gustard Pro. Sounding more sharp and detailed, not nessisarily in a good way. But, currently I am running streamed Spotify, so not exactly the best source.
Thanks again.
Glad it worked. I'm still burning in my Gustard x20 Pro as well. I did notice that the sound was a bit sharp out of the box, but it seams to be settling in well. I'm still waiting on delivery of my LPS-1 to power the microrendu, so at the moment I'm just feeding it via a cheap USB cable from my iMac.
The source will make a big difference. I've been really impressed with the sound so far using Roon via HQ Player, up-sampling my 16 and 24 bit flac files as well as Tidal content to DSD256. I'm still playing with the filters to find the best balance on my system, but so far I've found the sound to be detailed, but very engaging and musical. Previously I was using an Aries Mini as streamer and DAC so this is a significant upgrade in sound quality.
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Glad it worked. I'm still burning in my Gustard x20 Pro as well. I did notice that the sound was a bit sharp out of the box, but it seams to be settling in well. I'm still waiting on delivery of my LPS-1 to power the microrendu, so at the moment I'm just feeding it via a cheap USB cable from my iMac.
The source will make a big difference. I've been really impressed with the sound so far using Roon via HQ Player, up-sampling my 16 and 24 bit flac files as well as Tidal content to DSD256. I'm still playing with the filters to find the best balance on my system, but so far I've found the sound to be detailed, but very engaging and musical. Previously I was using an Aries Mini as streamer and DAC so this is a significant upgrade in sound quality.
This is probable a conversation for a different thread.
I've read a lot of threads concerning HQ Player and upssmpling. It seems the way to go but I also have read people having difficulty with settings and popping when changing sampling rates and other issues. Also I believe I'm not technologically inclined for that undertaking. I would love to ditch my Aurender and get something that will handle HQ and Roon with simplicity. Haven't seen it yet.
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This is directed to either (or both) niner or mies.
Hello.
I've got the slightly older version X20u and I really enjoy it in my system. This unit has two filter settings - slow or sharp. In my system and in my listening room I generally find I prefer the slow setting, but I still experiment with sharp to try to determine what it is that sways my decision.
Does the Pro unit also have two filter settings? If so, which one have you selected?
Have you tried toggling back and forth?
Are you using the Gustard as preamp, or do you have a preamp in your system?
My personal experience with my system has been that music sounds pretty good when the Gustard is used as preamp/DAC. However, when I add in my tube preamp (Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7 tube preamp), music sounds noticeably better, sibilance disappears, separation of instruments increases, and sound stage expands. Certainly, some of that improvement is a reflection of the quality of my preamp and the tubes used, but I think using the Gustard as preamp held something back from the source. YMMV.
Enjoy!
Michael
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This is directed to either (or both) niner or mies.
Hello.
I've got the slightly older version X20u and I really enjoy it in my system. This unit has two filter settings - slow or sharp. In my system and in my listening room I generally find I prefer the slow setting, but I still experiment with sharp to try to determine what it is that sways my decision.
Does the Pro unit also have two filter settings? If so, which one have you selected?
Have you tried toggling back and forth?
Are you using the Gustard as preamp, or do you have a preamp in your system?
My personal experience with my system has been that music sounds pretty good when the Gustard is used as preamp/DAC. However, when I add in my tube preamp (Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7 tube preamp), music sounds noticeably better, sibilance disappears, separation of instruments increases, and sound stage expands. Certainly, some of that improvement is a reflection of the quality of my preamp and the tubes used, but I think using the Gustard as preamp held something back from the source. YMMV.
Enjoy!
Michael
Hi Michael,
I haven't had much time to experiment. I'm still burning it in, and I'm still having problems with it communications with my Mac Mini. Thanks to Mies I got it playing for a little while but it went back to static. Now playing using my Aurender with no issues.
Filters are as follows:
PCM - Hybrid, Apodizing, Brickwall, M slow, M fast, L slow, L fast
DSD - 47, 50, 60 , 70
Maybe someone else can chime in and explain what these mean, i don't know.
I have not had time to listen to each one very long. However switching back and forth I really didn't hear any difference.
I am using my McIntosh C2300 with the Gustard and have not tried it straight into the amp. Maybe this weekend.
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This is directed to either (or both) niner or mies.
Hello.
I've got the slightly older version X20u and I really enjoy it in my system. This unit has two filter settings - slow or sharp. In my system and in my listening room I generally find I prefer the slow setting, but I still experiment with sharp to try to determine what it is that sways my decision.
Does the Pro unit also have two filter settings? If so, which one have you selected?
Have you tried toggling back and forth?
Are you using the Gustard as preamp, or do you have a preamp in your system?
My personal experience with my system has been that music sounds pretty good when the Gustard is used as preamp/DAC. However, when I add in my tube preamp (Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7 tube preamp), music sounds noticeably better, sibilance disappears, separation of instruments increases, and sound stage expands. Certainly, some of that improvement is a reflection of the quality of my preamp and the tubes used, but I think using the Gustard as preamp held something back from the source. YMMV.
Enjoy!
Michael
Michael-
As niner mentioned, the x20 Pro has many more filters to choose from. I'm still waiting on delivery of a LPS-1 to power my microrendu, so I haven't put much time into playing with the filters on the Pro nor in HQPlayer yet. I figured it's best to get all of the system components in place first, then see what the combination of filters sound like. Between the DAC and HQPlayer there are so many filter combinations that it's almost overwhelming. I plan on just comparing a couple options per listening secession, picking my favorite each time, then comparing the winners ones against each other. For me it's more about enjoying the music so I don't like to spend too much time in an analyzing mode...
Right now I'm using a Rogue Sphinx integrated amp which includes a 12AU7 tubed line stage. I don't have a separate preamp to compare to, but I've been really happy with the sound combination of the x20 pro with the Sphinx. I'm already hearing (and feeling) improvements across the board as compared to the Aries Mini I had been using, and this is with the microrendu being powered by a cheap wall wart!
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This is probable a conversation for a different thread.
I've read a lot of threads concerning HQ Player and upsmpling. It seems the way to go but I also have read people having difficulty with settings and popping when changing sampling rates and other issues. Also I believe I'm not technologically inclined for that undertaking. I would love to ditch my Aurender and get something that will handle HQ and Roon with simplicity. Haven't seen it yet.
I'm still figuring it all out, but your correct, the roon + hqplayer combination is not quite elegant and simple yet, and does take some technological patience. The sound quality is worth it in my experience, but for daily use I'll probably just use my mircorendu in roonready mode. For focused listening seccions HQplayer up sampling to DSD is hard to beat.
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Thank you for your responses.
I may someday get to hear SQ differences between the two models (or not). I think it's really great how DAC technology has been making leaps and bounds advancements recently.
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I thought I would give an update on my Gustard X-20 Pro. I have about 36 hours on it and it has blossomed.
I bought this on a whim after reading this thread and all the reviews and mods people were doing. I had just sold a dac costing more than $6K and getting ready to pull the trigger on another expensive dac. Thinking if I didn't like it I wouldn't take too much of a bath selling it. I buy and sell way too much gear. How an I still married?
I am really shocked at the quality of sound I am getting out of this unit. Very detailed but not harsh at all. In fact it kind of resembles my old Audio Note dac that I loved, for 1/7 the price.
I wonder how much more this dac can deliver if I get the upgraded mods like Ric has been talking about. I don't want to loose the lushness of the sound I am currently getting. But I may have to go for it, just to see, I mean hear. :D
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Thanks to all for input on this DAC, especially Quadman, Simon, Ric with your many ideas and mod tips. I got my x20 pro about three weeks ago. I had been quite happy with my NOS Tranquility DAC for years, finally at its best with the latest output stage, a jitterbug/a lucky try at a DIY USB cable/Regen/Curious Regen link. I use Audrivana 2+ player software in a late 2012 i7 2.3Ghz quad core Mac Mini with 8 GB RAM. Having only 44.1/16 files, and with all the excitement around computer sampling to DSD, I finally got more interested in a new DAC. The inexpensive and moddable Gustard became a clear choice, great potential with what sounded like little risk.
Following this and other threads, I have been modding little by little: lifted the transformers onto 2 layers of cardboard donuts; twisted all the AC wire bundles; Cardas Conditioner for contact enhancer on all AC connectors (a notable refinement); damped the fuse with teflon tape, conditioned it, and put a WA chip on. No audiophile fuse yet as I was blowing the stock .5 amp slow blow fuses at times when turning on the switch after putting it back in the system after a mod. So I changed to a standard 1 amp slow blow for now. Then I noticed the ground connector to the AC power filter board was loose so tightened it. Not sure this was it, but all seems OK with 1 amp fuses.
I experimented with BlueTack and pieces of Soundcoat for damping caps, finding a good sounding combination of the two. Then I found a piece of EAR SD40AL Ric Schultz had sent to damp the Oppo 83 he modded for me years ago, and tried it alone, damping to sound. This is the best yet, many caps having some damping, as well as the diodes before the big caps on the output/DAC chip board (another notable improvement).
Then I cut up a large WA cap chip using small and smaller pieces on most output/DAC section caps, and cut a WA semiconductor chip, 1/2 put on each of the Sabre chips.
Then I explored Stillpoints ERS sheet pieces on the transformer side of that aluminum partition...a piece in a plastic bag (ERS has metal in it so I am careful not to touch things with current) slid behind the USB board and then curving and extending between the Coax connector and USB board (calming USB board noise). And for now, I have some smallish sheets laid over the back of the two board sections. Better micro detail and space are my markers for this. Apparently it absorbs as well as shields, and sounds like it can take some good with the bad if too much is used, dulling the sound.
Herbie’s isocups with gray, gemstone balls for feet are my favorite so far, and a PI Audio power cable made for the Tranquility DAC with a ground I added is great with the Gustard.
Liking the Gustard adaptive clock sound quite a bit better than the “normal” clock setting (normal appears to be standard async for the Sabre chips), I decided to try the better coax cable between the two boards, rather than jumping to putting a new clock between the DAC chips. I made a cable using 22 gauge Neotech Braided UPOCC Copper in Cotton. This is litz wire, so takes time to burn in, but finally becomes nicely transparent. It has a movable thickish plastic support liner, the litz woven into a hollow rectangle around it. I burned a small hole in one end of the liner and attached a piece of VHAudio 24 gauge super pure silver/cotton wire through the hole, then pulled the silver wire through, now inside the woven litz. I taped the ends off with teflon tape, and found places to solder near the coax towers on the boards with a continuity checker. After a few hours of solder settling, having adjusted the system to the softer, mellower stock coax cable, and still running 256 DSD, the new coax was “too” big and clear, “stiff sounding,” too rigid and intense...
This was interesting. I had treated the stock coax connectors and towers with Cardas Conditioner, and that had opened the sound nicely, making for a very pleasant and rich complexity. I felt no real need to change it, but wanted to see what happened, several of you having really liked a new coax.
After about 80 hours of playing music into the DAC (not always through amps), the new coax started to open...more complex, warmer, and more characterful. Along with Audirvana setting refinements, it became pretty listenable even on 256 DSD, but still not as good as it had been stock. Then, at 90-95 hours, it is starting to rather quickly richen and open, becoming notably better than the treated stock cable. Now the excess tonal density and rigidity is replaced by a bigness that is not out of place...very complex with better definition and speed, revealing more layers of fine detail, spaciousness, ambient information….more textures and subtleties of timbre with amazing body and bass.
I don’t really get how much we can hear digital cables, but it always happens! In this case, the sound change was much like making new ICs out of the same materials. Compared to smaller wires of the same types, the bigger wires have a bigger, cleaner, more powerful sound. My room is pretty live, and system fast, revealing and inclined to tonal density. So I am always seeking that edge of ideal density, and it must be associated with serious complexity of information, feathering the tones and edges. ICs using this same material took 100-200 hours to begin to feel relatively complete and not too dense. Apparently (or coincidentally) it is similar for this short piece of digital cable.
As the coax burnt in, playing the Audirvana filter adjustments, the 256 DSD sounding sort of false, I explored PCM upsampled in 2x increments...to 88.2, 176.4, and 356.8. I was surprised how much I liked it. My DAC only has 160 or so hours with music playing all the way through, computer through through the live Preamp, so I expect more positive refinements, but 356 PCM was very deep, textured, rich, and clarified.
Now that the coax is opening though, I have to listen to 256 DSD again, and wow. Hard to read clearly with burnin in general, but this new coax cable is really good right now, and I suspect more to come!
quadman said:
“Hey, everyone just a quick update. Ric called me last week about a new mod he tried that he was convinced would blow my mind, This weekend I installed the mod and I must say he was right it made a VERY nice and significant change to the (old x20u) dac, (he performed it in a pro version) More body and weight for everything, vocalists and instruments, which also makes the stage appear larger and clearer with more information. I was very impressed. He is talking about offering this mod and possibly the AC mod together at a much lower price point then his full level 1 mod is priced now. This could be a huge step up in SQ for little $.”
If it is cool, please tell us more quadman or Ric.
Any input on the track I am on would be appreciated. Also, can you all recommend the best diodes to replace those on the output board. I seem to be finally moving out of concerns over warranty... Maybe I will get rid of the power switch and AC filter board next. I just got a Furutech gold plated IEC inlet in the mail.
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Just an FYI. I built a windows PC for a friend to use with a T+A Dac 8 DSD, Roon and Tidal to up sample all music to DSD512. After 4 months the motherboard failed (are you kidding me) the video output failed. He then decided to sell everything and give up streaming and stick with vinyl and RTR tape.
I installed a new MB in this PC and I am going to list it in the classified section for sale. This PC is based on i7-4790K processor, 8 Gb ram, water cooled. Win 10 pro. It works perfectly (again). It can handle DSD512 with HQP using all 2s filters and any lower up sampling (DSD256, 128, 64 or any PCM) it can use all of HQP filters.
I know most of you have PC's but some folks are sitting on the fence waiting to get in or upgrade. I just want to throw this out there as a possibility for a big boy machine that can handle HQP at DSD512 (2s filters). Check out the classifieds for more info.
This machine is loaded with HQP, Roon (7+ months left) and Audio fidelizer pro, it can be sold with or without these.
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@pinon you have been busy, I am a bit confused by your coax story. So the 24ga silver wire is now inside the copper wire, is the copper now acting as shield? and you have soldered that to ground? I have found pure silver wire to be the best for the signal transporter. Also that cable is very directional, One that I built I installed it the wrong way and the dac sounded off compared to my reference, I unsoldered the cable and reversed and it was quite a positive noticeable change. I don't remember thinking the custom coax was worse than the stock coax (then I didn't treat the stock coax) so I'll bet you had the direction reversed. Unfortunately wire does not come with arrows.
You finally hit it right with the damping, get all the blu tac and similar out and stick to the ear. Check out whats best forum x20 thread for ideas on diodes or head fi and the LKS- DH003 thread.
I do't know why Ric is still sitting on this new mod, it makes me look bad talking about it. If he is not going to market it then he should give the secret away so other DIY's can do. It is not my story to tell, so we wait for him.
The old x20 came stock with a 1A fuse (5x20mm). The AC mod will add a nice step up. The IEC if I remember only 1 furtech would fit the screw hole pattern on the gustard and I cannot remember which one, so make sure the holes on yours matches the dac. I played with some 3m RFI/EMI absorbing material, some behind the old, now removed USB board, and some over the 2 tranny's.
Good luck
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Hey Quadman. If you look at the Neotech Braided Copper in cotton at partconnextion or soniccraft you will see why I used it. As it is made, with the rectangular plastic inner liner, the woven copper litz makes a hollow rectangle, the wires woven into a hollow tube like a shield cable. After replacing the liner with the VHAudio silver in cotton 24 gauge, it becomes even more like a hollow shield, like just like one as far as I can tell. And yes, the shield goes to ground on both ends. But it is great sounding wire being very pure copper litz, so I figured I would use it. And in my experience, using this combination for ICs (in that case the silver as signal, and the neotech a separate wire run for ground, not used as a shield) directionality is real, but more subtle than most wires. I hear direction less with VHAudio silver than any others I have tried, and judging from Neotech's wire purity and method, I suspect it may be less directional than most also.
I did experiment with the stock coax, and mine was put in right, turned the other way dulling the sound. And yes, treating it made a pretty big difference to me. I had used Deoxit gold for years, finding it very good if I wiped/polished it right away. If not, it was dulling. The Cardas is similarly transparent sounding, but more tolerant of thickness. I do wipe it off pretty quickly too out of habit though. If you still are using the stock AC cable bunches, I think you will be impressed if you treat those connectors.
What defines worse on the new coax here is sort of relative I guess. The new coax was bigger, clearer, more open, and more defined right off, but being green it lacked fine detail...too clear, defined, and rigid. Now it is very clear and defined, but faster feeling, being loaded with fine detail and space. Also it carries the amazing speed, clarity and definition well with smoothness, subtle musical warmth, excellent extension, great textures, etc...after burnin, what were subtle oddities of timbre transformed to become more real than ever. Nothing to complain about after burn in, the cable showing all the right subtle information in a big way, so I have been lazy about trying it the other way.
I had used Furutech IEC inlets with fuse holders before, and they look just like the Gustard from the outside. The only difference I can see is the writing on the Furutech fuse holder being different than that on the Gustard. Even the fuse holder itself looks to be the same construction and design. I'll know more after I pull the AC filter, but I am wondering now if they are the same...that the Furutechs are made by the same folks in China??? Or a good copy. The Furutechs come with Rhodium or Gold plating. I suppose it is possible that instead of being just a cheap IEC, this could be a pretty good one where the silver color is not the usual whatever, but may be Rhodium plating?
Thanks for the tip on the diodes. I will check those threads again.
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I am not "sitting" on this new mod. It is part of all the mods I do on the Gustard and probably on the Oppo Sonica. John, I was half joking to you about doing this as a "separate" product. You were the one that ran with it.....encouraging me to do it. I have no intention of doing this mod alone or sharing info about it (for now). End of story. But thank you for telling/teasing people about this new exciting mod that I am doing that improves the Gustard and probably the Sonica.
I like the stock IEC inlet better than Furutech (fuseholder one and more expensive non fuseholder one tried).....I bypass the fuse holder part and solder directly to the pins closest to the plastic as possible.
As John (Quadman) said, a better clock right on the DAC chips is better than any cable.
The zero feedback jfet buffer stage in place of the entire output stage is a really nice step up in naturalness and inner detail.....you simply want to play air guitar and air drums right from the first note. Will be listening to the transformer output stage tomorrow that will allow more voltage (fet buffer puts out only one volt RMS per phase making it not so great for passive preamp use). Transformer puts out 2 volts. The stock output on the Gustard is 3 volts.
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Ric said: "I like the stock IEC inlet better than Furutech (fuseholder one and more expensive non fuseholder one tried)."
Hey Ric, I remembered a similar comment you made somewhere in many pages of Gustard talk on whatsbest, headfi, or threads here. This is quite interesting, and part of what made me wonder if the stock Gustard IEC is a Rhodium plated Furutech-like IEC. Whatever it is, based on your impressions, I thought I would take out the AC filter, still using the stock IEC, then perhaps sometime later compare the gold Furutech after it has been on the Frybaby for a while to begin burnin. I have an amp that would benefit from the Furutech if I don't use it in the Gustard.
Ric said: "As John (Quadman) said, a better clock right on the DAC chips is better than any cable."
This is interesting too. As I posted above, liking the Gustard adaptive clock mode so much better than "normal" (which I assume is what we get putting the clock between the DAC chips), and knowing the wires I used to make a coax would be super revealing, I decided to try a cable. And the cable is really good...very revealing, articulate, complex, textured, warm, and musical...all the very subtle information clearly presented. If the clock sounds better than this, it will be very good indeed.
That said, I have been working up a cart as I read through these threads. In it is the crystek clock, a 0.1 bypass cap, and some Vishay Diodes - I will try the coax the other direction too.
On the diodes, I did a search on every page, I think about 150 on Gustard and LKS mods. The only specific diode info I could find for the Gustard were posts by Markko, and he liked a Schottky 4A he tried, but for neatness, was trying some surface mounts, one of which after burnin he liked, but was thinking there might be better. Seems he found the Schottky and SMT he had tried were different, and both better than stock. In the LKS- DH003 thread, a couple higher rated diodes were mentioned, the Vishay Schottky ultra fast 100V 8A and 10A.
I think from Markko, I thought to try these:
SMD/SMT
Vr - Reverse Voltage: 600 V
If - Forward Current: 3 A
Type: Fast Recovery Rectifiers
Configuration: Single
Vf - Forward Voltage: 1.2 V
Max Surge Current: 50 A
Ir - Reverse Current: 3 uA
Recovery Time: 25 ns
Anyone willing to advise me? :)
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wow! it seems really funny that cotton wire is getting popular since that mention of that final labs cotton interconnect I talked about years ago :lol:
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Mresseguie,
Michael, I was wondering how you like the Gustard X20. I am looking into buying a DAC and saw you had one. I was thinking of a Schiit Gungnir as well. BTW, I am still waiting to hear from Don Sachs as to when the Pre-Amp will be done, I ordered it 9 weeks ago and getting anxious. I noticed you ordered his amp. Rick
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Hello, Rick.
The Gustard X20u is the best DAC I've ever owned. That's probably not saying a whole lot because I owned just two DACs before the X20u. It really needed 200+ hours of burn in to come into its sweet sounds. It can be used as a preamp or (as in my case) hooked up to a sweet sounding 6SN7 tube preamp. :thumb:
I bought the Gustard to do 2 things for me. The first was to get me into this decade as far as DAC technology is concerned; the second was to satisfy my needs/desires for a couple years. Why this short period, you ask? DAC technology is racing ahead, making advances in giant leaps and bounds. I wanted to stay under $900 (which I did) and anticipated upgrading about 2 years later.
Well, what happened? Technology kept jumping at breakneck speed. New excitingly powerful DACs have been hitting markets and I find myself wanting to upgrade to an even better DAC experience. [You don't suppose this is 'upgrade-itis', do you?] :nono: I just took delivery of a new Denafrips Venus DAC to audition and to take to the audiophile G2G at gregfisk's home this Saturday. I'll find out if this is going to be my new DAC.
Back to the Gustard. An audiophile I know in Taiwan bought the Gustard X20Pro DAC, burned it in for 200+ hours. Then, we compared his and mine back and forth for a couple hours. The X20Pro is definitely better, but not so much that I would consider buying it to replace my X20u. I recommend buying the X20Pro over the X20u unless your budget doesn't allow this. I have no idea how any Schiit DACs compare. I hope to audition the Yiggy someday.
As for Don....he's managed to get himself pretty busy, I think. Orders have flowed in, so I'm not surprised at a 9 week wait. When it arrives, burn it in for a good 200 hours before critical listening. [You still love it before 200 hours!] If you get TOO antsy, hop in your car, drive north into beautiful British Columbia and visit Don. Then, you can swing over to Kelowna to visit Captainhemo (Jay) to listen to his awesome sounding OB speakers. Then, swing south to visit Windchaser. Then, ....well, there are lots of really cool folks in all directions. :thumb:
Luckily for Don, I don't need my amp until October, so there's no rush.
Oh, yeah. Even though I'm seriously considering a new DAC, I'll probably hang onto the X20u for my office system.
How's that for an answer? :D
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Michael,
Thanks so much for your reply. I am going to wait to buy a DAC until early next year, so will keep researching. I will keep the Gustard in mind for sure. I will have to check back with you later if you don't mind and see how you like your new Denfrips DAC. I will let you know how I am liking don's Pre-amp as well.
Rick
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Hello, Rick.
The Gustard X20u is the best DAC I've ever owned. That's probably not saying a whole lot because I owned just two DACs before the X20u. It really needed 200+ hours of burn in to come into its sweet sounds. It can be used as a preamp or (as in my case) hooked up to a sweet sounding 6SN7 tube preamp. :thumb:
I bought the Gustard to do 2 things for me. The first was to get me into this decade as far as DAC technology is concerned; the second was to satisfy my needs/desires for a couple years. Why this short period, you ask? DAC technology is racing ahead, making advances in giant leaps and bounds. I wanted to stay under $900 (which I did) and anticipated upgrading about 2 years later.
Well, what happened? Technology kept jumping at breakneck speed. New excitingly powerful DACs have been hitting markets and I find myself wanting to upgrade to an even better DAC experience. [You don't suppose this is 'upgrade-itis', do you?] :nono: I just took delivery of a new Denafrips Venus DAC to audition and to take to the audiophile G2G at gregfisk's home this Saturday. I'll find out if this is going to be my new DAC.
Back to the Gustard. An audiophile I know in Taiwan bought the Gustard X20Pro DAC, burned it in for 200+ hours. Then, we compared his and mine back and forth for a couple hours. The X20Pro is definitely better, but not so much that I would consider buying it to replace my X20u. I recommend buying the X20Pro over the X20u unless your budget doesn't allow this. I have no idea how any Schiit DACs compare. I hope to audition the Yiggy someday.
As for Don....he's managed to get himself pretty busy, I think. Orders have flowed in, so I'm not surprised at a 9 week wait. When it arrives, burn it in for a good 200 hours before critical listening. [You still love it before 200 hours!] If you get TOO antsy, hop in your car, drive north into beautiful British Columbia and visit Don. Then, you can swing over to Kelowna to visit Captainhemo (Jay) to listen to his awesome sounding OB speakers. Then, swing south to visit Windchaser. Then, ....well, there are lots of really cool folks in all directions. :thumb:
Luckily for Don, I don't need my amp until October, so there's no rush.
Oh, yeah. Even though I'm seriously considering a new DAC, I'll probably hang onto the X20u for my office system.
How's that for an answer? :D
when you comapre the Venus DAC with X20u please detail the system used. specially the speakers please.
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Hello, Dadbeh.
My X20u and my D Sachs Model 2 preamp are boxed up in my home in Taiwan. The Denafrips Venus DAC is in Washington State. My new speakers are Daedalus Audio Apollos. They're in Washington, but I will ship them to Taiwan in October or early November. My amplifier is the D Sachs KT88 Kootenay 120. It is being built now, but I will lug it to Taiwan in a big and very well padded suitcase or pelican case.
The Venus and my Apollos will be in gregfisk's listening room in Bothell this Saturday morning for the audio G2G of the year (or so I think of it). Aldcoll is supplying his Modwright KWA 150 amp, someone is providing a beautiful preamp, and at least two other DACs will be present to battle it out with the Venus.
Come November, all my gear will be in my living room in Taiwan. Stop by for a visit from November through mid-April. We have a guest bedroom with a queen sized bed available.
I'm sure several attendees will happily present their impressions of all these components this weekend. Stay tuned.
Michael
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Hello, Dadbeh.
My X20u and my D Sachs Model 2 preamp are boxed up in my home in Taiwan. The Denafrips Venus DAC is in Washington State. My new speakers are Daedalus Audio Apollos. They're in Washington, but I will ship them to Taiwan in October or early November. My amplifier is the D Sachs KT88 Kootenay 120. It is being built now, but I will lug it to Taiwan in a big and very well padded suitcase or pelican case.
The Venus and my Apollos will be in gregfisk's listening room in Bothell this Saturday morning for the audio G2G of the year (or so I think of it). Aldcoll is supplying his Modwright KWA 150 amp, someone is providing a beautiful preamp, and at least two other DACs will be present to battle it out with the Venus.
Come November, all my gear will be in my living room in Taiwan. Stop by for a visit from November through mid-April. We have a guest bedroom with a queen sized bed available.
I'm sure several attendees will happily present their impressions of all these components this weekend. Stay tuned.
Michael
first I want to say every single piece of equipment that you named is outstanding and exquisite in its own right. very nice.
and i cant wait to to hear your thoughts on the DACs. thanks
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Well my buddy who ordered and I modded and wrote about on these pages back in April and May of last year has moved on to a T+A Dac 8DSD and he asked me to sell his Level 1 Gustard X20u (not pro). Unit is black in color. Full level 1 mod without the clock located close to the dac chips, instead it uses a very high quality pure silver wire. Other than the clock mod (which can be done for parts cost) this is a full level 1 with quantum chips and extra Damping that Ric had discovered made a sonic impact and I confirmed.
I'll list this in the for sale section so if you have any interest check it out and reach out to me. Asking $699 in its current modded form.
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It's been a long time since I've checked this thread. In this case, no news is definitely good news! My listening time has decreased a bit due to other commitments, but in general I'm very pleased with my system and Audiophilia Nervosa is in remission.
I continue to have issues with the Gustard not working (not sure if it's a sync issue, or something else?) A quick power cycle resolves it, but I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing the same phenomenon?
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I have had two odd things happen with the X20pro DAC syncing. One sounds like what you are experiencing. On occasion, I will turn on the system (the DAC stays on all the time), wake up the Mac Mini, and find no DAC connection...the sound comes from the Mini. Unplug and re-plug in the DAC (I did the mod that directly connects the transformers to the IEC so no switch), and all is well. The Gustard shows up as connected from the Audio Midi panel of the computer, and works.
The other thing...also on occasion, I go to start up the system, and find the Mini has crashed. I am not sure what is up, but I think the Gustard "locks" in some more intense way than my Tranquility did, both using USB connections. Lately, rather than putting the computer to sleep with Audrivana in pause mode, I click the Audirvana stop button, releasing iTunes. Not positive, but this may solve whatever has caused the crashes. I wonder if manually unlocking the DAC using the DAC setting panel might solve this also, but have not tried.
I have done a lot of mods on the DAC, and they continue, output board diodes remaining. Also still playing some with damping and WA cap and semi-conductor sticker pieces now and then, but it all seems really good. I am mostly running 256 DSD from 44/16 files.
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I continue to have issues with the Gustard not working (not sure if it's a sync issue, or something else?) A quick power cycle resolves it, but I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing the same phenomenon?
Do you mean the Dac is not locking on to the signal and the LCD display says unlocked or something else? I almost never experienced this issue except when my 3rd party USB card started acting up (I only used USB in) then I would get brief (less than 1 second) drop outs in music play, the LCD would quickly change to unlocked. Eventually after a couple months trouble shooting everything else I pulled the third party USB card and the issue went away. At no time was I forced to cycle power on and off to get things fixed.
That said a couple things you can try if you are comfortable opening the dac up. Power down the dac wait a bit for caps to discharge. Remove top cover (2mm allen) then make sure the coax cable is securely screwed into the posts on each board and maybe unscrew and then rescrew back in, or if you have a modded unit then check the solder connections. Now look at the white ribbon cables that go from digital to output board and digital to LCD board. Make sure they are seated all the way into the sockets, if you have high quality contact cleaner like Deoxit, or pro gold then you can careful pull the cables out of the socket and clean the contact parts of the cable then very carefully put them back in making sure the silver contact on the ribbon goes fully into the socket. Next you can check the 4 wire connectors that run from behind the volume knob to the LCD board make sure they are secure. If you run USB in I would check to make sure the USB card is fully seated in the PCIe slot. Those are the easy things to check.
The other thing are you using any thing between the signal source and the dac. If so remove that and see if the issue goes away. Good luck.
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Do you mean the Dac is not locking on to the signal and the LCD display says unlocked or something else? I almost never experienced this issue except when my 3rd party USB card started acting up (I only used USB in) then I would get brief (less than 1 second) drop outs in music play, the LCD would quickly change to unlocked. Eventually after a couple months trouble shooting everything else I pulled the third party USB card and the issue went away. At no time was I forced to cycle power on and off to get things fixed.
That said a couple things you can try if you are comfortable opening the dac up. Power down the dac wait a bit for caps to discharge. Remove top cover (2mm allen) then make sure the coax cable is securely screwed into the posts on each board and maybe unscrew and then rescrew back in, or if you have a modded unit then check the solder connections. Now look at the white ribbon cables that go from digital to output board and digital to LCD board. Make sure they are seated all the way into the sockets, if you have high quality contact cleaner like Deoxit, or pro gold then you can careful pull the cables out of the socket and clean the contact parts of the cable then very carefully put them back in making sure the silver contact on the ribbon goes fully into the socket. Next you can check the 4 wire connectors that run from behind the volume knob to the LCD board make sure they are secure. If you run USB in I would check to make sure the USB card is fully seated in the PCIe slot. Those are the easy things to check.
The other thing are you using any thing between the signal source and the dac. If so remove that and see if the issue goes away. Good luck.
There is no indication on the front panel that anything is wrong. Just no sound playing. Turning the Gustard off then on again solves the issue. I don't ever remember it happening when I was actually listening--it's always just when I fire up the system (DAC always on), sometimes there's no music so I power cycle the DAC and everything is fine again.
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Does anyone have a copy of the DIYinhk USB audio driver v3.34 that you could be so kind to send my way? (DIYinhk now only offers a v3.38 version that is only good for their XMOS PCB: http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/driverdatasheetmanual/109-diyinhk-usb-audio-driver-full-version-and-signed-.html ).
I currently have a dual boot Win 8.1/ Linux Ubuntu 16.04 PC server & use Ubuntu ALSA to get DSD256 HQPlayer upsampling on my Gustard X20u.
I added a Network Audio Adapter (NAA) mini PC dual boot Win 10/ Ubuntu 16.04 & currently get DSD256 again thru Ubuntu.
I wanted to try DSD256 thru Win10 w/ the updated driver if possible (I tried a JL Sounds XMOS-Stereo-USB-Audio-Class2-Driver-2023 v3.34.0, & it is recognized as the driver for the Gustard X20 xCore: "XMOS XS1-U8 MFA", but I can only get DSD128 & that is strangely DoP. HQ Player- Miska says that ethernet cable fed DSD256 data shouldn't care what OS is on NAA side).
I'll forward an email address thru PM for anyone that can help.
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If you upgrade to windows 10 creator version you will not need a driver unless you are playing back higher than 24/192 files.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028685/windows-get-the-windows-10-creators-update
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Scotty
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Many thanks to quadman for DIYinHK v3.34 driver! Listening to DSD256 thru the Win10 mini PC NAA & Gustard X20u as I type. :thumb:
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I am using a HAL MS-2 PC Music Server running WIN 10 Creator using jRiver to kernel stream all sample rates up to 24/192 as well as DSD 128 and 256 feeding an Auralic Vega.
No special driver required and kernel streaming sounds substantially better than the latest USB driver from Auralic. If using jRiver 24bit integer is what works in my system.
Kernel streaming seems to have far less veiling obscuring the inner details of the music and the reproduced acoustic space is clearer and larger in scope.
The manufacturer supplied driver has the most veiling with a progressively less fogginess as you move from direct sound to WASAPI with kernel streaming being the clearest window on the music.
Scotty
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I strictly use HQPlayer for upsampling everything to DSD256 w/ no J River, Audirvana, etc.. No problems w/ Ubunutu ALSA, but just now trying Win 10. There have been problems with Windows 10 Creator in conjunction with HQ Player (as documented on Computer Audiophile HQPlayer thread).
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Many thanks to quadman for DIYinHK v3.34 driver! Listening to DSD256 thru the Win10 mini PC NAA & Gustard X20u as I type. :thumb:
Hi, Can you please share the driver with me?
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liton2k, send me a PM to discuss.
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liton2k, send me a PM to discuss.
I'm not allowed to send PM :( Can you send me PM?
Edit : Now I can send you PM. Please check.
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I am using a HAL MS-2 PC Music Server running WIN 10 Creator using jRiver to kernel stream all sample rates up to 24/192 as well as DSD 128 and 256 feeding an Auralic Vega.
No special driver required and kernel streaming sounds substantially better than the latest USB driver from Auralic. If using jRiver 24bit integer is what works in my system.
Kernel streaming seems to have far less veiling obscuring the inner details of the music and the reproduced acoustic space is clearer and larger in scope.
The manufacturer supplied driver has the most veiling with a progressively less fogginess as you move from direct sound to WASAPI with kernel streaming being the clearest window on the music.
Scotty
Scotty, I read this post in September and decided to finally try Kernel Streaming on the Gustard tonight....agree with you completely, much better, open sound than with the Gustard driver.....thanks for your post.
- Martin