[jlafrenz]

Officially my first post here on AC. I have been trying to read a lot of everyone's opinions and decided it was time to post as ask for your advice.

I have recently decided to redo my 2 channel rig because I was not completely satisfied with my DAC. It got me thinking about replacing some other components too. My main focus is the DAC though since the majority of my listening is done via PC. There is a turntable too and the phone stage plays a little into my choices.

My current gear includes Aurum Cantus Monitor 1 speakers and the Jolida FX10 integrated amp. I was using the Jolida DAC and the Emotiva XDA-1. Both were nice, but not ultimately what I want long term. I am looking for something that has a smooth sound. Something with a little punch and a large sound stage is nice too, but I realize I can't have everything... or can I? Naturally I have been looking at the NuForce HDP, EE MiniMax DAC, and Peachtree Decco2 (would could also replace the Jolida). I know there is tons of information on the site about all of these units and I have read as much as possible. I just can't decide and have a hard time finding a straight comparison between all of them. They each have great reviews with pro's and con's. I just can't decide which would be best in my situation.

I have considered these units as well as an overhaul of the amp, pre-amp,phono stage, etc... but that seems to increase the budget quite quickly.

So, what are your thoughts and what other info do you need from me to help me make up my mind?

[davidrs]

Jlafrenz,

Welcome to AC.

That's a lot of "stuff" to focus on.

Dividing larger problems into smaller, more workable issues can be helpful. Keeping that in mind, dividing things up between digital and analog would make sense.

Given that you seem more focused on the digital side of the issue, I would look at this chain and figure out what you most need to address first.

Based on what you've written, it might be the DAC. Just suggesting that you take a high-up view your digital side of the chain and think through and process where and what your weakest links are.

If it ends up being the DAC, start there. If it ends up being your integrated, start there. Etc.

Bringing this up, because your post is likely to elicit diverse feedback, which may be tough to sort out.

- David.

[jlafrenz]

David, you are right about focusing on one part of the system. The real focus is the DAC. The only reason that the integrated came into play is because the Decco2 could replace everything. That, and the Jolida is difficult to drive with some source components like a phono stage that might have a lower output. I have a phono stage right now that is not exactly what I want either, but that is a back burner type of project. I am just wanting to make sure that the DAC purchase leaves the door open for integration of the phono stage and pre-amp area of the system. Hopefully that makes sense. With all that being said, the best thing to do is focus on the DAC's right now.

[davidrs]

Jlafrenz,

Are there any specific attributes you are looking for in a DAC.

Where did the Jolida fall short in terms of your needs?

Budget range for the DAC?

- David.

[jlafrenz]

I liked that the Emotiva XDA-1 had lots of detail and was quite dynamic, but it was a little fatiguing as it wasn't really smooth on the top end. The Jolida DAC is a decent DAC, especially at it's price point, but I know there is better out there. It had a hard time during really musical passages and just seemed like it was struggling or lacking in performance. Something that can provide the dynamics and detail like the XDA-1, but is a bit smoother and more refined. Both seemed to do well in providing a large sound stage.

[JLM]

If you "bing" Eastern Electric and Wyred for Sound DAC reviews you'll find mentions of the Nova/Decco units that declare them to be "2nd class" in comparison.  (I wanted to "like the Nova/Decco units too, but finally decided to stay on a higher road than the Nova/Decco seemed to provide.)

Those same reviews (and those here within AC) would point you towards the EE DAC if your system "needs the touch of tubes" (liquidity/lushness) and the W4S DAC if your system needs more detail (can be too detailed/sterile for some).  The EE DAC weakest point is its USB connection, but its strength is that Wayne from Bolder Cable (here at AC) has started modding it.  Other current offerings seem to pale versus these two (or cost way more).

DACs represent the fastest developing technology, and so ideally would be the last piece of the puzzle to put into place.

So sorry to say but IME its ill advised to start system building with a DAC.

[jlafrenz]

If you "bing" Eastern Electric and Wyred for Sound DAC reviews you'll find mentions of the Nova/Decco units that declare them to be "2nd class" in comparison.  (I wanted to "like the Nova/Decco units too, but finally decided to stay on a higher road than the Nova/Decco seemed to provide.)

Those same reviews (and those here within AC) would point you towards the EE DAC if your system "needs the touch of tubes" (liquidity/lushness) and the W4S DAC if your system needs more detail (can be too detailed/sterile for some).  The EE DAC weakest point is its USB connection, but its strength is that Wayne from Bolder Cable (here at AC) has started modding it.  Other current offerings seem to pale versus these two (or cost way more).

DACs represent the fastest developing technology, and so ideally would be the last piece of the puzzle to put into place.

So sorry to say but IME its ill advised to start system building with a DAC.

It seems that the EE W4S DAC's get great reviews, but they are also the most expensive. I think the W4S is going to be out of my range. I have included the EE DAC in my original post because it is more obtainable financially for me. This is also one of the reasons that I mentioned switching the integrated amp, because I could sell the phono stage I am currently using to help fund the DAC and use another phono stage I have. The other one doesn't have enough output voltage to drive the Jolida and is why I had to buy another one in the first place. It is just going to be difficult to find another integrated amp that performs like the Jolida and at its price point. I am certainly up for suggestions from you guys and is why I posted. I already have a touch of tubes with the Jolida FX10, but it didn't seem to tame the XDA-1 enough for my tastes.

[JLM]

I also recall that the Nova/Decco tube section only works with the power amp in use.

I can't find information on your Cantus Monitor 1 speakers, but I assume it uses the well known/respected ribbon tweeter.  Not a lot available on the 10 wpc Jolida FX10 integrated amp either.  Years ago I ran my 91 dB/w/m full range speakers with a modded 7 wpc Tripath which worked amazingly well, but was easily trumped by 40 watt monoblocks.  I'm not a headbanger, but the additional control helped improve resolution and macro dynamics.

Seems like part of your issues could relate to lack of power from the Jolida.

We really need to know a lot more about your musical tastes, audio priorities, budget, those speakers, etc.

[jlafrenz]

The system is in a spare bedroom and I don't have it cranked. Occasionally I like to turn it up for a couple of songs. I don't feel that the system is under powered, but I do see how a little extra juice could be beneficial. For musical tastes I like folk, acoustic, singer songwriter, rock, classic rock and alternative. I know some of the genres don't lend to the most well recorded pieces, but that is something I deal with to enjoy the songs that I do. Budget is a little tricky because it depends on how the whole system comes together. I was looking in the $400-500 range for a DAC. Here a few of the scenarios that I have thought about for the system.

Keeping the Jolida, I could add the NuForce HDP and use it for the DAC and connecting my lower output phono stage into for some extra gain to drive the Jolida. This is the most feasible option as it is the least expensive.

The next would be to sell the Jolida and go for the Peachtree Decco2 which would handle just about everything and allow me to connect a phono stage.

The last option would be to get the EE MiniMax DAC and use with the Jolida. This would be the most expensive option and force me to keep the phono stage I am currently using, which I kind of want to get away from. Though this is the most expensive option, if the EE DAC is worth the extra $$, I may consider saving for it.

Those 3 scenarios is my dilemma and the reason for seeking some outside opinions. I am also open to other suggestions if there are any.

[Tyson]

You should try a good Non-Over-Sampling DAC (NOS).  It has a smooth, fatigue free sound and can be listened to indefinitely.  No listening fatigue at all.

[JLM]

I'd think that many audiophiles would be satisified with the Decco2 in a 2nd system, that would be your decision.  I was looking at it for my "big rig" that include $2k+ speakers, which I realized didn't make sense.  (Its so hard to read enough between the lines sometimes to know just how much praise is comparatively being heaped up.)  My only concern in your case are those Cantus ribbon tweeters (that I've not heard, but gather are highly resolving).

For better or worse there are lots of Nova/Decco units listed on Audiogon.

[jlafrenz]

You should try a good Non-Over-Sampling DAC (NOS).  It has a smooth, fatigue free sound and can be listened to indefinitely.  No listening fatigue at all.

I once owned a Scott Nixon DAC and it's smoothness is stuck in my mind. I was thinking about going back to one which is part of what prompted me to look into a new DAC. After further research, I found that Scott Nixon was involved with the original Decco, but the Decco2 was a new design and a step up in performance. That information is what has lead me to some of my current possibilities to overhaul my 2 channel rig.

JLM... It can be difficult to read between the lines sometimes. I was pretty set on it until I found a few who were turned off by it for a variety of reasons. I realize that I need to read everyone's opinions with a grain of salt, but it got me thinking and caused me to do some more looking. I always like to explore my options.

[JLM]

Years ago I had a sealed lead acid battery powered, non-oversampling ACK! Industries dAck 2.0 with the high output and high resolution options. 

BTW I currently run 40 watt chip based Channel Island Audio VMB-1 monoblocks in my main rig.  Chip amps are touted for synergizing with single driver speakers.  The Decco2 is slightly smaller (30 wpc @ 8 ohms) with a smaller power supply.  This would limit speaker choices/room size/listening habits.

[Tyson]

The new Scott Nixon DAC's are a big improvement over the old ones.  They keep the silky smoothness, but have much better focus and clarity thanks to a lower distortion output tube (the 12bh7), and much greater punch and bass thanks to using a Constant Current Source to keep the output tube operating at it's ideal operating point at all times.  And if you run computer audio, the USB TD also uses USB-direct-to-I2S for even better gains in clarity and transparency.  If you can find one used, it's very cheap and worth checking out.

[jlafrenz]

JLM... I know some seem to have concerns about the power of the Peachtree, but the Jolida I currently using is only has 10 watts. The Peachtree shouldn't have a problem powering my speakers in the room I have them in. I am more focused on the DAC section o each of the units. Since the Peachtree both have preamps, that should also be taken in to consideration.

Tyson... Sounds like I shoud also be taking the new Scott Nixons into consideration. Have you compared them to the ones I have already listed?

[davidrs]

Jlafrenz,

If you are going USB out from your PC, then I would look at the most current DACs.

If you can go S/PDIF, it will open up a lot of possibilities in terms of older DACs (still 24/192) developed for use with transports, etc. These can be 'true' values on the used market, especially if you are looking for units that score  high in a more emotional and musical presentation.

There seems to be even more divergence of opinion on DAC preferences and how they work within one's system than with other audio components.

For example, someone whose audio opinions I respect, and who has a phenomenally high end system, actually prefers DACMagic over his high end Weiss and Wavelength. To his ears it achieves what he is looking for and outperforms the other two. Go figure.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it may take some time getting the DAC that works the best for your ears and system, so don't hesitate to rotate a few through your system.

- David.

[jlafrenz]

I have multiple sound cards laying around so I have the option of USB, optical, or coax.

The Peachtree and NuForce both fit in the budget. I may see about ordering both to give them a listen and keep the one I like best in my system and send back the other.

[jlafrenz]

I have multiple sound cards laying around so I have the option of USB, optical, or coax.

The Peachtree and NuForce both fit in the budget. I may see about ordering both to give them a listen and keep the one I like best in my system and send back the other.

[Mike Nomad]

If all you are looking for is a DAC, there is this Peachtree option:

http://signalpathint.com/index.php/iDAC/Specifications.html

I have a Peachtree Nova and love it. It has plenty of power, the sound is fantastic for the price point, and I've recently found their is a lot more performance to be had with a modest upgrade from the stock tube in the pre-amp.

[jlafrenz]

If all you are looking for is a DAC, there is this Peachtree option:

http://signalpathint.com/index.php/iDAC/Specifications.html

I have a Peachtree Nova and love it. It has plenty of power, the sound is fantastic for the price point, and I've recently found their is a lot more performance to be had with a modest upgrade from the stock tube in the pre-amp.

Hi Mike,

I have seen this offering by Peachtree, but don't feel that it is the best solution for my situation for a couple of reasons. First, I have no need for iPod integration/controls and would rather not spend the money on a unit with this. Second, from the prices I have found, it is more expensive than the Decco2 and has no amplification. The Decco2 would be a much better option for my needs. If I end up with a Decco2, I do have a small collection of tubes that I will most certainly be swapping in for the stock tube to see if there are any improvements to be had.