[RDavidson]

Regardless of the active vs passive "debate," one thing is always true : Passive preamps are FAR more system dependent than active or hybrid (passive + buffer) preamps.

[Early B.]

Regardless of the active vs passive "debate," one thing is always true : Passive preamps are FAR more system dependent than active or hybrid (passive + buffer) preamps.

That's another good reason to avoid them. Passive preamp advocates can always blame someone's less than stellar experience with them on the "system."

[werd]

Transformer or transformer-less passives are dependant on only one thing. That the source gear can drive past the passive and into the amp. If it can't it is going to sound limp.

[Early B.]

Transformer or transformer-less passives are dependant on only one thing. That the source gear can drive past the passive and into the amp. If it can't it is going to sound limp.

Not true based on experiences of many folks who have tried passive preamps. The limp sound is not necessarily spec dependent. Virtually every source nowadays has sufficient voltage to drive a typical amp, technically speaking.

[kernelbob]

The Tortuga is the only passive preamp I've heard that has all the power, slam, PRAT you could want.  It also is the only passive preamp I've heard that has deep, rich, powerful, bass.  The music has toe-tapping rhythm.  I've successfully driven power amps ranging in impedance from 25k to 100k.  I've heard it trounce an ARC-REF3 (mine, now sold) and a Constellation preamp.  Go for the upgraded internal wiring (copper NOT silver).

[TJHUB]

The Tortuga is the only passive preamp I've heard that has all the power, slam, PRAT you could want.  It also is the only passive preamp I've heard that has deep, rich, powerful, bass.  The music has toe-tapping rhythm.  I've successfully driven power amps ranging in impedance from 25k to 100k.  I've heard it trounce an ARC-REF3 (mine, now sold) and a Constellation preamp.  Go for the upgraded internal wiring (copper NOT silver).

I agree.  I love mine. 

[sbuzz]

My budget for a pre amp is $5,000 - $9,000 . The Wyred for sound  pre-amp sounds worth looking into. Didn't know that pre amps other then phono stages had adjustable gain. Tortuga seems to have a lot of fans at AC. Would love to hear one.

[RDavidson]

Not true based on experiences of many folks who have tried passive preamps. The limp sound is not necessarily spec dependent. Virtually every source nowadays has sufficient voltage to drive a typical amp, technically speaking.

Yup. Even when electrically (voltage, impedance, sensitivity) everything seems ideal to use a passive, there's a resistive factor to take into account. This is why I believe passives tend to blunt the sound. A source putting out a standard 2V still might not / probably will not have the ability to "drive past" the passive's circuitry. This is at least part of the reason why virtually all passive preamp manufacturers say to use short IC's too.

Note, I haven't heard a Tortuga passive (yet), which uses LDR's. I think these have advantages that AVC, TVC, and resistor ladder passives simply can't match. The BIG advantage is simplicity. Less circuitry = less stuff messing with the source signal and blunting it. Not saying LDR's are perfect, but Tortuga has done some proprietary things to greatly lessen, if not virtually eliminate LDRs' primary issue, ie matching LDR modules and ensuring they stay matched over the course of their working life.

[RDavidson]

My budget for a pre amp is $5,000 - $9,000 . The Wyred for sound  pre-amp sounds worth looking into. Didn't know that pre amps other then phono stages had adjustable gain. Tortuga seems to have a lot of fans at AC. Would love to hear one.

Yeah, the Esoteric C-03 (and newer C-03x) have adjustable gain. Either preamp would be considered "destination" pieces for the vast majority of folks in this hobby. If you can find a used C-03, you might pay around $5k. If you're not interested in paying that kind of money right out of the gate, preamps like the STP-SE, Tortuga, or perhaps a Parasound JC2 may be worth your time and effort on the low to very low end of your budget.

[Early B.]

My budget for a pre amp is $5,000 - $9,000 .

Wow. That's a very generous budget for a preamp. That's the price range for my entire system!

We still need more info --

--Is the lack of a remote a deal killer?
--Any size, weight, or aesthetic constraints?
--How many outputs do you need?
--Are you looking to buy new or used?
--You mentioned Odyssey and ZenWave, but what does your system specifically consist of?
--You also mentioned wanting to stick with solid state -- why?
--Do you need an HT bypass?
--Etc.