IDA-8 ($995) features and spec

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audioguy213

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #400 on: 26 Aug 2016, 02:57 am »
You'll get no debate from me that it's a rabbit hole.  But I'm pretty sure Toslink connections have their own liabilities.  And there are cheap and easy ways to do some basic isolation and/or reclocking in USB - you don't have to go deep into the rabbit hole if you're not as curious as Alice.  IME improving your digital supply can be as significant as a major component upgrade.  If the Nuprime is of sufficient quality, and from those of you on this thread it does seem like it is, then it will benefit greatly from attention to digital supply.

why the assumption that passing through USB to a de-jitter-ers, a rendus and six cables, two things with wall warts, etc. is better than

a  direct digital optical connection?



RDavidson

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #401 on: 26 Aug 2016, 03:32 am »
Optical (Toslink) has limited bandwidth.....because it is an inferior / imprecise signal transmission system. It's fine for non-critical applications.

srb

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #402 on: 26 Aug 2016, 05:02 am »
Toslink is limiting for two reasons:  (1) The signal undergoes dual conversion - first on the transmitting end from electrical to optical S/PDIF, then on the receiving end from optical back to electrical and (2) It was designed as an inexpensive S/PDIF link for consumer disc players and no high-precision transceiver modules exist.

When Stereophile and other test labs test for jitter, the optical output almost always has much more.  Is this just a measurement thing and not really audible?  I don't think so.  Subjective listening on sources with both coaxial and optical S/PDIF 4 out of 5 times sounds to me like the coaxial source is more in focus and the optical is blurred a little, to use a photographic analogy.

Given a computer or streamer with a PCIe slot with more direct connection to the processor, my preference would be a soundcard with coaxial S/PDIF or AES/EBU outputs.  As this is not possible on a laptop or slotless mini computer, you have to go with what works best with what is available (USB or optical).

USB implementation varies widely, with some hardware giving good results stock while some others require external device bandaids.

As far as optical, the previous recommendation for Lifatec Toslink cables is a good one.  I'm not sure about huge advantages over short lengths given the state of Toslink transceivers, but it eliminates any doubt of the cable adding problems and you're only paying an industrial parts premium, not an absurd audiophile blue sky premium.

I've seen too many problems (dropouts, etc.) using Toslink to mini-Toslink adapters that I won't bother with them.  Get the properly terminated cable to start with and forego adapters.

Steve

audioguy213

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Armaegis

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #404 on: 26 Aug 2016, 05:36 am »
Skip the usb madness, because give it another year or two and we'll be well into ethernet interfaces pumping out aes/coax for our dacs. The big one right now is the Focusrite Rednet3, but I'm sure there will be "audiophile" approved options coming out soon.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #405 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:31 pm »
1. How long does the NuPrime need to burn in? I think I'm hearing a little digital edge on it right now... but I also just put in some brand new 1M Clear Day Shotgun speaker cables at the same time, and being 100% silver and since I've had lots of Paul's cables before (including my entire main system) I know they need some time to settle down. So that could be compounding what I'm hearing a bit. I'll let it play continously until Monday+ to burn them in and the amp.

Why silver cable? We never like silver unless the component is "dual". Since our components are all neutral (when we say it is a little warmth, it is just a little, not like distorted type of warmth), you might get edgy sound with silver cable.

You should set the digital volume on computer at max.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #406 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:36 pm »
And for those of you who do not have NuPrime product, please don't start recommending re-clocker, etc. IDA-8 does that and more. This topic is about IDA-8 and people who actually have the product or intend to get one.

Ictwoody

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #407 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:39 pm »
Why silver cable? We never like silver unless the component is "dual". Since our components are all neutral (when we say it is a little warmth, it is just a little, not like distorted type of warmth), you might get edgy sound with silver cable.

You should set the digital volume on computer at max.

I like the clarity of silver. I use these cables in my main system, and I have used Clear Day cables in other systems including my office. I find Paul's (Clear Day) cables to not have as much of that silver, overly bright, sound that I've heard with other silver cables. I find them open and detailed. Once I've got a couple hundred hours on everything I'll consider a change if I think they are a bad match. My Audience speakers are very detailed, and the amp is plenty detailed... so they might prove to be too much. I might give a set of Audience's own Ohno Speaker cables a try to go back to copper without spending a wild amount of money. I think a 1m set of their cables is about $200 and by all accounts they are very good.

- Woody

Ictwoody

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #408 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:40 pm »
And for those of you who do not have NuPrime product, please don't start recommending re-clocker, etc. IDA-8 does that and more. This topic is about IDA-8 and people who actually have the product or intend to get one.

This is good to know. What are your thoughts on USB filtering? Little dongles like the jitterbug or iFi iPurifier or Uptone Regen?

- Woody

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #409 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:54 pm »
Our engineer took apart one of those and I will just be polite and say that you don't need it. We are not against using whatever gadgets to get better sound, but it has to work and make a difference.

genjamon

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #410 on: 26 Aug 2016, 08:54 pm »
And for those of you who do not have NuPrime product, please don't start recommending re-clocker, etc. IDA-8 does that and more. This topic is about IDA-8 and people who actually have the product or intend to get one.

So, your product is electrically disconnected from the 5V bus in a USB cable, provides a measure of resistance and/or galvanic isolation in the ground plane, and provides high quality reclocking of the data lines before feeding into a USB receiver module?  And more?!  Interesting!  I think may prospective customers would be quite interested to know more details about all of this!  There are lots of us who have gone to great lengths to try all these tweaks, and it would be wonderful to find a product where those tweaks didn't matter because it was all handled well internally. 

And I also kind of resent the implication that I'm not a potentially interested customer.  Honestly, I was starting to get pretty intrigued by this product, but the attitude implying that I don't have a genuine interest in this post has me turned off a bit.  I was just replying (I thought helpfully) to a fellow forum member's question about small tweaks to consider in optimizing his new setup.  I saw he was running straight from a consumer grade unoptimized iMac into your device, and I know from experience with several of my own setups as well as those in my local group that this can be a huge source of noise in the system. 

Of course, if you were to explain more about what specifically the IDA-8 does in terms of replicating features of many of the tweaker products, that would go a long way to restoring my interest.  It's one thing to simply say with braggadocio that you do all that and a kettle of chips, but its another to actually explain to a customer base what you're doing.  Some of us want to peer underneath the hood before purchasing. If you're actually doing all you say you are, that only greatly increases the bargain your product represents.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #411 on: 26 Aug 2016, 09:03 pm »
You could start a new topic. This is IDA-8 topic and I want to make sure we stay within the topic.
I am the admin and I have to enforce some rules.  Sorry, this is nothing personal or disrespectful of your knowledge.
Similarly, when people start to go off topic and talk about speakers (not internationally off course, just like your post), I will do the same and ask to start a new topic.

genjamon

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #412 on: 26 Aug 2016, 09:14 pm »
You could start a new topic. This is IDA-8 topic and I want to make sure we stay within the topic.
I am the admin and I have to enforce some rules.  Sorry, this is nothing personal or disrespectful of your knowledge.
Similarly, when people start to go off topic and talk about speakers (not internationally off course, just like your post), I will do the same and ask to start a new topic.

Fair enough.  But now that you've broached the subject, I'm curious which of the functions I mentioned above your device accomplishes.  Breaking the 5V connection?  USB ground wire galvanic isolation?  Reclocking of the USB packets before processing into a different data stream and sending to DAC?  I'm honestly very interested.  I've been looking on and off for quite some time at options for upgrading a secondary system for my TV and media server room, and your unit could be exactly what I'm looking for.  But I'm weighing different options.  This information could be highly influential in my decision-making process.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #413 on: 30 Aug 2016, 07:45 pm »
Give it a try. Most dealers or online stores offer 30 day money back guarantee.
I don't like to say more than this: input signal is up sampled to giga hertz and then down sampled again. I don't think we ever disclose this information before. Sorry, that's all I can say.

pixelmixture

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #414 on: 30 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm »
after almost a year with this amp i have to say that i'm really delighted ... the musicality and the power are nothing but amazing !!!
only little downside: heat dissipation could have been better ... during summer , the top of the amp gets very hot ...


rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #415 on: 31 Aug 2016, 05:57 am »
after almost a year with this amp i have to say that i'm really delighted ... the musicality and the power are nothing but amazing !!!
only little downside: heat dissipation could have been better ... during summer , the top of the amp gets very hot ...

after almost a year with this amp i have to say that i'm really delighted ... the musicality and the power are nothing but amazing !!!
only little downside: heat dissipation could have been better ... during summer , the top of the amp gets very hot ...

Actually this is by design to conduct heat to top of the amp. Other designs either trap the heat inside (even with ventilation holes it is not efficient), use fan or conduct to the bottom (so that customers don't complain!). But the best way to dissipate heat without using a fan is to have heat sink inside, then further conduct the heat from heat sink to the case.  Sure the amp might gets hot, but the board will last longer.

Armaegis

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #416 on: 31 Aug 2016, 04:18 pm »
even with ventilation holes it is not efficient

Sometimes, vent holes actually make heat dissipation worse which is quite the opposite to intuitive thinking. While hot air does naturally rise, its overall movement is incredibly slow. When the air doesn't move, it is essentially an insulator. In some cases (I'm generalizing; not saying specifically it's the case here), the closed chassis provides more metal surface which helps spread the heat over a wider area, which can be more effective than putting in vents.

The whole thing devolves into a mathematical/finite element analysis. One approach may have greater dissipation overall, but higher concentrated heat. Stacking affects venting. Dust and grime are factors. Etc etc.

Armaegis

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Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #417 on: 9 Oct 2016, 05:29 am »
The IDA-8 is listed as one of the top40 greatest bargains in audio by The Absolute Sound...
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-40-greatest-bargains-in-high-end-audio-1/

PhishPhan

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #418 on: 12 Oct 2016, 04:06 pm »
Thoughts on the difference between the IDA-8 versus the STA-9/DAC-9 combo?

A few pages back Rustydoglim advised the IDA-8, but that was for a near field computer system. I plan on using these to power a Zu Druid MkV; a very efficient speaker, which actually benefits from extra power per both reviews by 6moons.

My old amp (redwine audio 30.2 LFP) died so I am currently driving them with one of the original nuforce Icon amps and am quite impressed with how well this little amp drives them. The lower end is quite nice but it seems a little harsh. I do appreciate a warmer sound overall.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #419 on: 12 Oct 2016, 07:56 pm »
If you have very high efficiency speaker, and also impressed with Icon amp, you might want to wait until late November/early December for IDA-6 ($649 or $599, t.b.d).  The sound signature is sort of between IDA-8 and STA-9 (which is what I think you will like), has 30Wx4 or 70Wx2 (configurable).  It is a new entry level high-end integrated. It won't be as good as IDA-8, but something I would strongly recommend for people who want to drive a < $1K speaker, ceiling speakers for multi-room installation (that's what the 30Wx4 is for), DIY project.