[dburna]

How about some recommendations from the Stereophile 2017 class A list:

Aerial Acoustics 5T: $3795/pair

2-way monitor, stylish reinforced curved side wall rosewood veneered cabinet, front port, 7" woofer, designed and built in the U.S., recommended to be placed 2 - 24" from front wall, highs a bit laid back, not for headbangers but image superbly, rated down to 48 Hz, 87 dB/w/m at 4 ohms

ATC SCM19 v.2: $3999/pair

2-way monitor, company is well respected, elegant cabinet, traditional design, uses in-house drivers, highly resolving/coherent even at low levels, neutral/yet processing some mid-bass warmth, not dry/clinical, live/direct, good tonality/dynamics, highs a bit shrouded, power hungry at 85 dB/w/m and 8 ohms, rated down to 54 Hz

DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 3XL: $3700/pair

2-way monitor, U.S. built, caramelized bamboo cabinets (matching stands available), all about focus/transparency, coherent/fast, excellent low level resolution/dynamics, pin-point imaging/huge soundstage, not forgiving, good tonal balance/not bright, not a rich/full sound, rated down to 45 Hz, 90 dB/w/m at 8 ohms

1. Aerials: interesting, will need to research more

2. I have heard the ATCs at AXPONA.  I might disagree (slightly) with the "not dry/clinical" assessment.  Based on an admittedly small listening window, that's a little bit of what I did hear from these.  Might still be worth an in-house assessment -- it could have been the hotel room set-up(s) that made it sound a little dry.

3. DeVore 3XL.  The larger the DeVore speakers I have heard, the less I liked them.  Sounded clear, but not completely involving.  Maybe the reverse is true: that I will like the smallest DeVore speakers better.  I did listen to one YouTube demo of the 3XLs, and the one concern I had was that I thought I heard them start to break up a little as they played louder.  Again, perhaps in-home they will sound differently.

-dB

[dburna]

Look at:  JM Reynaud stand mounts (ie. Offrande) and small floorstanders,  Vienna Acoustic Concert Grand Series,  Silverline Sonatina,  DeVore Gibbons 88 (and even discontinued models).

Sunnydaze, have you listened to the Offrandes extensively?  I heard these at a (music server) demo when I lived in FL, many moons ago.  I think this was probably at least 3 Offrande versions ago, but I recall liking the sound a good deal.  Those present a sound that I liked, and I think these would work well in a small/medium-sized room.  Am wondering how the new (Supreme V2) ones sound, supposedly they are even better.......but aren't the new versions ALWAYS much better than the older ones??   

-dB

[bluemike]

The Ridge Street Sason is another good one that would work with what you describe
88db but a very even load easy to drive I use a chip amp
I have heard the old Offrandes use to own the Jmr Trentes
Alot of boxes checked with the Sason

Isssue is finding one that is used

[sunnydaze]

Sunnydaze, have you listened to the Offrandes extensively?  I heard these at a (music server) demo when I lived in FL, many moons ago.  I think this was probably at least 3 Offrande versions ago, but I recall liking the sound a good deal.  Those present a sound that I liked, and I think these would work well in a small/medium-sized room.  Am wondering how the new (Supreme V2) ones sound, supposedly they are even better.......but aren't the new versions ALWAYS much better than the older ones??   

-dB

Only heard the Offrandes once.  I considered buying it, so I went to a local guy's house to audition a pair FS.  It was about 14 years ago so it was one of the earlier Offrandes.  They didn't sound "right" to me, so I didn't purchase.  But if I had to guess I'd say the room and / or setup was at fault.

What steered me to them was their consistently very positive press, and my direct experience with the JMR Twins.  I love the Twins.  I'm on my 2nd pair -- made the mistake of selling my 1st pair.  I have them in my small room secondary setup paired with a Gallo sub -- I've yet to hear a standmount, any standmount, that I can listen to LT without a sub.  I high pass my Twins Mk3 at 100Hz (HP filter built into my sub, a very nice feature).  Removing the bottom significantly improves their performance all the way up to the top treble, and turns them into what sounds like a $3-4k speaker.  Pretty good for a speaker that I bought used for $575 (original MSRP approx. $1100).  High-passing also improves the performance of my Omegas in the same manner.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=21788

Given my positive experience with these speakers, I'm always on the lookout for a used pair of "smallish"  JMR floorstanders (even older models):  Cantabile, Evolutions, etc.   IMO, they are hidden gems that can be had quite cheaply since they don't have much name recognition in the States.  Unfortunately, if you check Hifishark you will see they show up fairly often on European used markets, not so much here.

Reynaud is something I'd definitely look into were I in your downsizing / upgrade visual aesthetics mode.  They don't do audiophile pyrotechnics, they just engage and involve and pull you in. 

And like I mentioned earlier, the smaller Vienna Acoustics floorstanders (Beethoven, Mozart, Bach (discontinued)).   (Beethoven may be too large).  They are immersive and musical, and very easy to move around, certainly no harder than a monitor on stands.  The cabinets are beautiful works of art and visually they always score very high on the WAF scale.  Common on used markets.

I also think highly of the Silverline Sonatina, which I previously owned.  It fits your checklist nicely.

PS:  my current Twins Mk3 definitely are better than my previous MK1.  So at least for this model,  newer is better.   The current version is called the Bliss / Bliss Silver, which I hear is significantly better.   Several months ago I saw a pair on AG for $900 (I believe the upgraded "Silver" retails for over $3k).  I hemmed and hawed and hesitated......and lost out.  They were sold when I looked again on day 2.  Great deal.

[mcgsxr]

The only stand mount I ever owned and used without a sub was the Focal Electra 906's I had.

But those are about 1/8th your budget.  And some don't love the Focal presentation as much as others.

I would still be looking at Salk.  Active or not, they build some gorgeous, well reviewed and respected gear and are active in our community.

[Armaegis]

2. I have heard the ATCs at AXPONA.  I might disagree (slightly) with the "not dry/clinical" assessment.  Based on an admittedly small listening window, that's a little bit of what I did hear from these.  Might still be worth an in-house assessment -- it could have been the hotel room set-up(s) that made it sound a little dry.

I heard an SCM20 (passive) the other day, and I'd agree with the dry assessment. Fantastic midrange detail, but the top and bottom felt very restrained (albeit clean).

[sunnydaze]

I would still be looking at Salk.  Active or not, they build some gorgeous, well reviewed and respected gear and are active in our community.

Never heard a pair, but I would too -- just based on all the positive press.

[srb]

I would still be looking at Salk.  Active or not, they build some gorgeous, well reviewed and respected gear and are active in our community.

Never heard a pair, but I would too -- just based on all the positive press.

Love the sweet RAAL ribbon.

The Salk Silk AT with the Audio Technology woofer might be a fit with a more reasonable 87dB sensitivity (compared to the slightly smaller Salk Silk with the ScanSpeak Illuminator woofer and only 83dB sensitivity).

Steve

[dburna]

Love the sweet RAAL ribbon.

The Salk Silk AT with the Audio Technology woofer might be a fit with a more reasonable 87dB sensitivity (compared to the slightly smaller Salk Silk with the ScanSpeak Illuminator woofer and only 83dB sensitivity).

Steve

Yes, if I went in that direction, I think this would be the model to consider.  Some of the floorstanders seem nice, but some of the motivation here is to remove the ("huge" in the words of one of our house members) visual impact of the speakers.

[sunnydaze]

Yes, if I went in that direction, I think this would be the model to consider.  Some of the floorstanders seem nice, but some of the motivation here is to remove the ("huge" in the words of one of our house members) visual impact of the speakers.

Floorstanders do not have to = huge.  There are many high quality but simple single driver or 2-way floorstanders that actually "present smaller" than monitors on stands......especially some of the hefty monitors.  I'm talking cabinets only 30 - 38 inches tall, and often quite slim.  And as floorstanders, added benefit is usually greater LF reach and heft.  Often easier to move around since they are stable one piece vs. topply monitors + stands.

Just off the top of my head:

Omega
Vienna Acoustics Bach and Mozart
Older Coincident Models (Conquest, Visionary Reference, etc)
Silverline Sonatina
JM Reynaud  (smallish floorstanders)

There are many others.

[JLM]

Small floor standers present low, so much so that they can be blocked by other furniture in the room and can be heavy to move.  (They are more stable (had a 5 pound cat knock over 10" x 10" x 20" speaker on 12" high stands.)

Small woofers can lack mid-bass body.


Haven't heard them all, but all the Salk speakers I have heard (Soundscapes excluded) sound like a collection of drivers, a very incoherent presentation.

[opnly bafld]

deleted

Don't want to be a fanboy providing blowback; causing others to waste their time posting about it.

 

[artur9]

Floorstanders do not have to = huge. 
Vienna Acoustics Bach and Mozart

I have heard the VA Mozarts at a dealers and liked them a lot.  I own the Haydns. 

I heard the Joseph Audio Prism and Profile at CAP and absolutely loved them, particularly the Profile.

Or maybe something like the Larsen Model 4?  A 9x10x30 footprint, goes to 30Hz and is only about $2k.
P.S. Oh, and must be placed against a wall.

[poseidonsvoice]

So a little analysis of some of the designs mentioned:

Vienna Acoustics Mozart: http://www.stereophile.com/content/vienna-acoustics-mozart-loudspeaker-measurements#1b451ceMzF4USwEK.97

Miserable.

Larsen: http://www.stereophile.com/content/larsen-hifi-8-loudspeaker-measurements#Wde3x1s1CjFVfqSo.97

Criminal?

Coincident models:

http://www.soundstage.com/measurements/coincident_total_eclipse/
http://www.stereophile.com/content/coincident-speaker-technology-troubador-loudspeaker-measurements#0y4gjTEho1HkpDIb.97

Perhaps try another occupation? I realize these are older models so perhaps he (Israel Blume) has improved. But the "pseudo" 6dB/octave design isn't doing him ANY favors. If his goal was a time coherent design, he failed miserably.

Joseph Audio Perspective: http://www.stereophile.com/content/joseph-audio-perspective-loudspeaker-measurements#VsccZc6dJuHjZZtl.97

Not bad and hopefully the Prism model mentioned earlier in this thread follows suit.

Still, it's not a JBL 705 or 708...it's not even in the same ballpark.

Think I'm being tough? Think again. Heh, it's just money right? Your money.

Best,
Anand.

[Folsom]

Maybe th OP doesn't listen to graphs?

[JLM]

Another vote for Fritz Speakers (if you insist on passive loudspeakers).  Full bodied sound, thrive with amps equipped with large power supplies, not treble leaning, great guy to work with.

IMO at this price point you're well into the diminishing returns range, with makes for another plug for Fritz as he specializes in monitors at and below this price range.  Your taste should dictate far before your budget which of his monitors you prefer.

[goskers]

Maybe th OP doesn't listen to graphs?

Perhaps continued efforts on some people's parts to encourage those to look a bit into what constitutes a 'good' loudspeaker.  There is enough evidence these days to support which data is important and meaningful if it's available.  Asking for opinions on what one should consider is great.  Trusting anyone's take on how something sounds is pretty meaningless. This is what the industry is built on though. 

Let the circle of confusion continue...

[sunnydaze]

Measurements smeasurements.

If a graph tells me a speaker sucks but my ears tell me it's wonderful, I'm going with my ears.

Some great sounding gear measures poorly.  Example:  SET amps.

[macrojack]

Measurements smeasurements.

If a graph tells me a speaker sucks but my ears tell me it's wonderful, I'm going with my ears.

Some great sounding gear measures poorly.  Example:  SET amps.

The graph provides a constant (presumably) and accurate, repeatable illustration of what a speaker is doing. On the other hand we choose to invest nearly all of our confidence in our ears. Yes!!! - those same ears that are not in the mood, have a cold, have been listening for 2 hours, are accustomed to and biased toward a particular sound signature. Those ears!
How about we flip this around and concede that we can, as humans, like anything. We (and our precious ears) are the mutable element in this experiment and perhaps there is more to be gained in adapting ourselves to what measures well rather than shopping the earth for products that entertain a capricious, arbitrary and spontaneously variable standard. How else can we govern and manage our progress? Will we get there by rotating through a series of popular new models favored by reviewers and/or the online cognescenti? Or will that approach foment endless lamentations about dead ends, fatal mistakes and wasted money? Isn't it time for us to take a more adult approach?

[sunnydaze]

...... Isn't it time for us to take a more adult approach?

Not if the adult approach means buying soley based on measurements, to the exclusion of what our ears prefer, and then being unhappy with the sound in the listening room.

Will we get there by rotating through a series of popular new models favored by reviewers and/or the online cognescenti?

No, I get there not by following opinion or purchasing the fan boys faves, but by having enough confidence in my ears and preferences and then choosing what sounds pleasing to ME .......after auditioning as wide an array of gear as possible. 

I don't deny that measurements are a good starting point to develop a short list, but IMO if your ears don't make the final decision a mistake is being made.

Folks can choose in whatever way makes them feel comfortable.  They don't need to be told how to do it.