LS-9 and LS-6 digital crossover interest

HAL · « **on:** 31 May 2015, 07:48 pm »

I have been asked by folks if a digital crossover for the LS-9 and LS-6 speakers would be possible. The answer is yes, but would require some rework of the existing speaker to accept direct connection to the drivers for biamping the speakers. Each amp would be driven by a separate channel of the dspMusik digital crossover.

Danny has given me an LS-9 crossover to measure to get the parameters to design a dspMusik crossover version. I have CLIO here to do the electrical measurements to make a digital version. If there is interest, an LS-6 version would be done the same way. If LS-6's are of interest, I can see if Danny has a crossover board to measure as well.

I can now make the dspMusik a stand alone device that has a PC USB driver that is ASIO compliant so that it will also work with a MAC. This has been tested with two different MAC Mini systems and has worked very well. The MS-3 PC Music Server has worked very well from the other side.

This thread is to gauge interest in this as a project. If people are interested, please let me know in this thread. I have production dspMusik digital crossovers available and can start the project with the LS-9 crossover in house.

Skiman · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 May 2015, 09:30 pm »

I might have been interested, but I've already had the Ninja build me a pair of external crossovers:

HAL · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 May 2015, 09:55 pm »

skiman,
I have heard the dspMusik in comparison to Danny's design of the passive crossover on the latest OB three way planar speaker in his system, and to me the dspMusik is another step up in sound quality. He did the comparison with his MAC Mini and his music and

It has to be used in a biamp setup with each amp driving each array of drivers directly in order to accomplish that goal. You already have that as does S Clark with his LS-9's since you both have external crossovers.

S Clark was one person asking about it, so making it available to him as a test case is probably a good starting point if he is interested.

I also have Ninja Nobel crossovers for my N2X speakers.

stu · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Jun 2015, 02:17 pm »

Hi Rich, I was wondering if you were going to try to do something with the LS's. I still use Danny's crossover in my 9's, but I upgraded those with Sonicaps. I was be interested to hear about the results.

Mark

HAL · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Jun 2015, 02:20 pm »

Mark,
Good to hear from you!

Will keep everyone posted.

I do not have either of the LS-9's or LS-6's, so will have to work with someone that does and wants to mod them or are already moded.

Rich

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 12:52 am »

Hmmmmm...........

I'm interested from a theoretical perspective at this point. Could be interesting. I always thought bi-amping with SS bottom and tube top was the way to go. This makes that possible.

Put me down as "following with interest" at this point - I still have to figure out if the LS 6's will even work in the new house - might know in a couple of months.

HAL · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 01:20 am »

When we tried the dspMusik on Danny's new OB planar line array's, that is exactly what we did. Gary's 30 watt tube monoblocks on the NEO3's and Class D amp on the NEO10's with the servo subs.

THROWBACK · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 12:02 pm »

I have LS-9s. First I've heard about a Ninja Nobel crossover. How can I find out more?

HAL · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 12:11 pm »

Skiing Ninja made them.

Sadly, they are no longer in business.

http://www.skiingninja.com/

THROWBACK · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 12:53 pm »

Thanks, HAL. Sad indeed. I wish them well.

mojave · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 03:23 pm »

I'll be having some guys over this summer (or maybe fall) to compare my LS-6 speakers with the following:
1. GR-Research crossover with Sonicap Platinum bypass caps
2. Response Audio crossover with Clarity Caps
3. Digital crossover using JRiver Media Center

The only difference in the playback chain for digital will be the removal of the passive crossovers and the addition of another pair of Digital Amp Company amps.

With the digital crossover I'll also be comparing a two way system to a three way system by integrating a separate infinite baffle subwoofer for the left and right speakers.

HAL · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 03:26 pm »

What two stereo DAC's are you planning to use with the JRiver crossover?

HAL · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 07:46 pm »

Only SoCalWJS is interested in feedback?

mojave · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: HAL

What two stereo DAC's are you planning to use with the JRiver crossover?

I've tried multiple stereo DACs. They work fine if using a master clock like an AES card or daisy chaining with S/PDIF, MADI, Firewire, Thunderbolt, ADAT Lightpipe, or Ethernet. When daisy chaining, the first device still needs to be connected to the PC with a multi-channel format (USB in addition to previously mentioned methods) so you can't use SPDIF. You can also connect work clocks like Mytek does with multiple Stereo 192-DSD DACs. You won't get any drift between channels with any of these methods.

However, I prefer to use multi-channel DACs. I feel the best for this purpose is a MOTU 1248, which I have. I like it for the following reasons:

+20 dBu line output max level - It has enough voltage on the output to account for headroom lost with digital crossovers. You can also use with low gain amps for the highest SNR possible.
Dual 8-channel DAC chips - one can be used for the left speaker and one for the right for no chance of crosstalk.
It is fully balanced - There are 12 balanced outputs and you can route up to 64 channels out through ASIO and can assign any ASIO outputs to any of these 12 physical outputs.
Output Trim range of 24 dBu (+20 dBu down to -4 dBu) - Even though the maximum output is 20 dBu, you can lower the maximum output level on each channel using 32-bit digital trim levels. This means you can set the tweeter levels and never risk damage. You can also use it to make sure you don't ever overload the input on a small amp.
32-bit output for highest quality volume control
No noise on sample rate changes - Sample rate changes are completely silent! No slight tick, pop, or anything else. This is perfect for home use when listing to a playlist of mixed sample rates.
No noise during on/off when amps are on - You can turn the Motu 1248 on/off and never get any noise out of the amps - no tick, pop, click!
DC Coupled Output - With no capacitors in the signal chain, there is no rolloff or phase shift of the low frequencies.
Microphone input and line-in use same master clock as output - Measurement software can know the exact delay from output to input so driver distances can be calculated to the 1/100th of a millisecond
Routing - Mixer software allows one to route output from measuring software through JRiver for crossover design
Web Interface - Mixer software is controlled via a web interface on the device itself. This means routing, levels, trims, etc. can be control with a tablet or phone
8 analog inputs - other sources can also be routed through JRiver to use the crossovers

HAL · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 09:45 pm »

Here are pictures of the dspMusik stand along digital crossover. Has USB2 asynchronous, S/PDIF and balanced stereo ADC inputs and 8 programmable balanced DAC outputs all running at 24bit/192KHz processing. No linear phase processing in the signal path.

mojave · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 11:20 pm »

That looks really nice.

I just saw you are in Callaway, MD. My sister and her family are about 3 miles away in Lexington Park. They moved from Nebraska a couple years ago and I still haven't been there. We were going to visit this summer, but now have pushed it off to next year.

shotoons · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Jun 2015, 11:24 pm »

I'm interested. I have the LS-6, bought some upgraded crossover parts from Danny but have not installed them yet.
Do you have a ballpark estimate of the cost? More than $500, less than $1k, etc? Would this only work with PCs/Macs
as a source?

HAL · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jun 2015, 12:19 am »

The dspMusik is $1500 custom programmed for the crossovers for the LS-9 and LS-6.

It has a USB driver to install for Windows that is ASIO compliant for PC's and will work natively for MAC OSX via the USB.

HAL · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jun 2015, 12:58 am »

Quote from: mojave on 2 Jun 2015, 11:20 pm

That looks really nice.

I just saw you are in Callaway, MD. My sister and her family are about 3 miles away in Lexington Park. They moved from Nebraska a couple years ago and I still haven't been there. We were going to visit this summer, but now have pushed it off to next year.

mojave,

If you do get to the area, a friend has a dspMusik crossover running his VMPS RM50 speakers that you can demo.

Just let me know in advance, and can set something up.

HAL · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jun 2015, 01:18 am »

The idea behind the dspMusik digital crossover was to make a system to beat the sound quality of the DCX2496 and DEQX 2.6P that I had. It also has 8 outputs to add things like rear channel subs with time delays.