New from AVA, the Synergy 450 and Synergy 300 power amplifiers.

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guest1632

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Hi Ray,

It is really hard to assign numbers or percentages to the difference between amplifiers.

We now have a drastically improved and very transparent A-B comparison box built and in daily use here.  It allows us to connect two preamps, two power amps, and two sets of speakers all at once and switch between any combination from a remote control.  Levels between any two components are matched when switching and switching is dead silent.

Using this box has taught us a few things.

For example, different amplifiers react quite differently to different speaker loads.  The speakers we have connected now are a set of original Salk HT3 three way units with ribbon tweeters and a set of older B&W 801 Series Two speakers, with our crossover fix of course, and damped housings for the tweeters.  Both are really good speakers and each has an easy to identify sonic signature.

The new switch box is now transparent enough to not mask differences between amplifiers or preamplifiers.  It is easy to tell one design from another now.

Interestingly, when using the 801 speakers, the difference between the Synergy and Fet Valve amplifiers is more obvious.  Using the HT3s, the differences are minimized.

What this means of course is that what you hear is really going to depend somewhat upon what speakers you use. The Fet Valve always comes across better, but "better worth the extra cost" is a lot less obvious if you are using B&W 801s.

Thus, my "percentages better" have no absolute meaning when the equipment is used with different speakers.

Anyway, we would suggest that the Synergy is probably 50 percent better than the Insight series.  The Fet Valve amps are more like 100 percent better than the Insight series.  The Fet Valve is probably 30 percent better than the Synergy driving the 801s, but 20 percent better driving HT3s.  These are really wild ass guesses here, remember that.

Regarding number of output devices here is the scoop.  Our heat sink sections each hold three TO3 output transistors.  The big amps all use four heat sink sections, two per channel.  Thus max capability is 6 TO3 devices per channel.  The Fet Valve amps all use double die devices, thus adding up to 12 Exicon mos-fets per channel.

However, in the new Synergy and Fet Valve amps, two of the output devices per channel are used for output regulators.  Thus these amps use four mos-fets per channel, double die devices in the Fet Valve 400 and 600, and in the Synergy 450.  The Synergy 300 uses standard devices.  Our long term experience with powerful mos-fet power amplifiers over many years of use tells us that our choice and number of output devices have proven to be very durable in service.

Note that using double die devices does not add to the complexity, actually it makes the layout less complex as there is less wiring needed for the same results.  All of our amplifier will perform as rated with the use of single die devices only.  The double die devices just add an additional safety margin to amplifiers that are rugged and quite fault tolerant in the first place.

Note also that the regulated power amplifiers all run cooler.  The output devices no longer are attached directly to the high voltage power supplies.  They are connected to the regulated power supplies which operate at a significantly lower voltage.  The regulated power supply voltages are set to regulate up to and just past clipping.  The active regulators also do not work very hard.  At idle, when the see full raw supply voltage in, the are passing very little current.  At full power, when the regulators must pass lots of current, the voltage across them is very low as the raw supply voltage drops with high demand.  The regulators and the output devices are always run well within their safe operating windows.

No, there is no upcoming upgrades to the Insight series preamplifiers.  The solid state preamps use completely different technologies than the power amps and there are no common circuit configurations.  They work really well as is and would take completely new design ideas to make them better than they now are.  That will be tough to do.

Finally, the new Fet Valve and Synergy amplifiers we think will make very useful improvements to your audio systems.  Try one.  Remember we offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee if they do not meet your expectations.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the explanation. As to the Synergy 300, the other two output devices are of the standard type, couldn't you just use one double dye device eliminating the second one, thus again reducing parts count. Wouldn't that work just as well as using two devices?

Ray

rcag_ils

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Will it eventually be an upgrade for the smaller Delta120 amp too?

PJam1995

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Just purchased my first amp today. I decided on the Synergy 450. Will be delivered in about 3 weeks. Can't wait!! Scott

Tone Depth

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The smaller Insight+ amplifiers remain the best we can do at a lower price as there is no way to pack 12 regulated power supplies on the smaller audio boards used in these amps and no room for more boards either. (From FVA Reply #8)


Will it eventually be an upgrade for the smaller Delta120 amp too?

Shirai

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Hello. I'm a hi-fi neophyte and this is my first post. I'm curious to hear more experienced AudioCircle members' opinions on solid state power amplifiers as compared to tubed amplifiers.

I'm posting on this thread because, just this week, I received an AVA Synergy 300. It sounds great! However, I'm curious to know what more I might get out of, say, an AVA Ultravalve amp. Reading this forum after placing my order, I discovered: 1) tube amps don't require as much maintenance as I'd feared 2) the audiophile community favors them heavily over SS. It's hard to know whether I've made the "right" decision without the ability to compare amps in person, so I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter. My apologize if this question belongs on another thread.

(For references, my setup is: Oppo 93 BDP to AVA EC Vision preamp/DAC to Synergy 300 to Salk STs. I will use this for music (CDs, DVD-As, SACDs, mostly "popular") and HT, in conjunction with a projector.)

charmerci

Well, this might not be the answer that you're looking for.

I say, enjoy the fantastic system that you have. Listen to it for a year (or two!) a lot after which I'm pretty sure that you will then be able to detect the differences between good systems and bad ones. Get used to AVA/Salk and then start listening to other pieces and you'll be able to tell if the components/systems are better or worse than you have.

Chances are you'll say, "eh, just not as good." Or "Sounds great. It costs how much???

Mr Peabody

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One thing to note tube amps vary in sound and character as much as solid state.  I'd say the generalizations in comparing the two technologies are narrowing as there are good representation in both camps.  It is a fact that quality tube watts still cost quite a bit more than solid state.

Wayner

Speakers are in effect, linear motors with variable load characteristics and  impedance curves. Amplifiers are the drives for these linear motors. When I bring a new amp or speaker pair into a system, I ask myself this question: Is this the right amp for these speakers or are these the right speakers for this amp. You will never know until you hook them up and give a listen.

One thing is for certain, IMHO, all amps sound different and all speakers sound different. If you enjoy your current combination, then you have succeeded in finding mutual "hosts".

W

rollo

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Speakers are in effect, linear motors with variable load characteristics and  impedance curves. Amplifiers are the drives for these linear motors. When I bring a new amp or speaker pair into a system, I ask myself this question: Is this the right amp for these speakers or are these the right speakers for this amp. You will never know until you hook them up and give a listen.

One thing is for certain, IMHO, all amps sound different and all speakers sound different. If you enjoy your current combination, then you have succeeded in finding mutual "hosts".

W


    An astute statement for sure.



charles

Shirai

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Thank you, gentlemen, for your thoughtful replies.

My system (AVA EC Vision DAC/Preamp; AVA Synergy 300 Amp; Salk STs) has been up and running for almost two months now and I'm pleased to report that it sounds great! I'm still unsure what tubes would add to this setup, since I'm unable to do a side-by-side comparison. However, I have no reason to second guess my decision to buy solid state equipment: my system sounds great and I wouldn't want the extra fuss and expense of tubes (not to mention the extra heat they'd generate; New York summers are hot enough!).

Anyhow, thanks again and happy listening.

13mh13

Here are some photos :D



Thx for posting those pix. I have an Omega 260 from 1996. Looks like the main board has seen some topological action ....






« Last Edit: 17 Oct 2016, 05:06 pm by 13mh13 »

avahifi

A lot more that just "topological action".  New audio circuits, new output circuits, new output devices, new output and audio regulator circuits, and more.  Only the case, power transformer, and raw power supply remains unchanged.

Just wait until you read a wonderful review of the Synergy 450 coming very soon in a major web based audio magazine.

Hint: the final comment is "buy it"

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

avahifi

By the way, now all our smaller solid state power amplifier have been drastically upgraded to Synergy specifications too.

Now there is a Synergy 240 power amplifier, a Synergy 240/3 power amplifier, and a Synergy Control Amplifier.

While our 15% off sale is in effect, these will be available at the old Insght+ amplifier prices.  After that their cost will have to go up about $300 to cover the cost of the new regulator circuits, upgraded audio circuits, and new internal heat sinks to support the new output regulator power transistors.  Same sound as the bigger Synergy amplifiers, just lower powered and lower priced.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

13mh13

A lot more that just "topological action".  New audio circuits, new output circuits, new output devices, new output and audio regulator circuits, and more.  Only the case, power transformer, and raw power supply remains unchanged.
Noticed those metal TO-5 trans (mil. grade ?) which can be $$. Also, I see a lot of those semiconductor-mounted heat sinks (from the Omega III)are now gone ... uh... meaning (somehow) you've gotten things to run cooler w/o loss of performance?
Quote
Hint: the final comment is "buy it"
I just might on the sexy LOOKS of new board alone.
« Last Edit: 1 Aug 2012, 06:00 am by 13mh13 »

avahifi

Now shipping, the new Synergy 240 and 240/3 amplfiiers
« Reply #34 on: 6 Sep 2012, 12:12 am »
We are now shipping the new Synergy 240, Double 240, 240/3, Double 240/3, Synergy Control Amplifier, and Double Control Amplifier.

Our new special improved heat sinks and regulated power supply boards are now in house and the completed power supply modules work great and fit perfectly into all the amplifier models listed above.

Musically these little amplifiers have guts, bass, transient dynamics, and the same tube like smoothness that motivated the reviewer for Enjoy the Music to end his long and thoughtful review with the simply statement, "buy it."  They are really quiet and all run cooler than previous models.

During our summer sale, the prices for these will remain the same as for the equivalent previous Insight+ models, but will need to go up about $200 - $300 each after the sale to cover the cost of the new regulated power supply modules.

Upgrades?  Of course.  We can install the new regulated power supply modules in most older Insight+ amplifiers.  Prices to be determined as we gain experience with doing the many upgrade options.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine


Chromisdesigns

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Do you have or are you planning a Synergy circuit version of the Dyna / Hafler upgrades?  I have an old Halfler DH200 that I might be interested in gutting and rebuilding.

rlee8394

While the DH-200, DH-220, and DH-280XL amps seem to have enough space laterally, I think the new Synergy boards are a bit too tall to fit those chassis. Frank hasn't explicitly stated this, but he has stated that the Hafler amps, including the DH-500/600 amps are not suitable for Synergy upgrades.

Ron

avahifi

Correct, there simply is not enough room in the Hafler chassis for the new big Synergy boards, and not enough room for the separate regulated power supply modules used in the lower powered Synergy amplifiers.  In addition, the regulated power supply modules for the lower powered AVA Synergy amps would not have adequate current capacity for the higher powered Hafler or Dyna chassis units.

So, sorry to have to tell you this, but future developments of new circuits for the Hafler and Dyna based amplifiers has come to an end. It simply is not cost effective to design and tool unique new audio boards including regulated power supplies for these very old chassis now.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

avahifi

Good news, we can install the Synergy power supply module in AVA amplifiers built in the Dyna ST-150 chassis.  I built one myself today.  Sounds awesome, way more deep bass reach and power than you would expect in a 100+ watt power amplifier.

So if you own an OmegaStar or Insight 240 built in a Dyna ST-150 chassis, we can now provide you with a Synergy upgrade.

The cost will be $600 for the new regulated power supply installed.  The sale price does not apply.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
« Last Edit: 13 Dec 2012, 10:24 pm by avahifi »

rlee8394

Frank,

Does this mean that you can build a complete Synergy 240 into a stock Dyna ST-150 amp? If so, what would the be the cost? Double Die upgrade?

Thanks,
Ron