[CanadianMaestro]

^ Multi-sensory is the trend -- even movie theatres are into it, with wrap-around screens, chairs that rock, VR-eyepieces, earphones.

[timind]

Well... I have a ton of sales experience and was one of the nation's top salespeople at a national chain big-box store. So I'd say my version of the truth is much more accurate than yours.

Your version is what a good salesperson should do, but the great majority of sales people are NOT good. Your chances of finding a "sales professional" as you describe is slim, unfortunately.

Well said. In my experience, jarcher is out of touch with current audio sales people. My last experience with an in-store high end audio sales person was less than stellar. He was poorly informed about any products other than those in the store.

[srb]

My last experience with an in-store high end audio sales person was less than stellar. He was poorly informed about any products other than those in the store.

My last experience in a high-end audio store was abysmal.  With cursory reading of available manufacturer sales info I unbelievably knew more than the "salesman" going in.  He couldn't answer my questions about things I couldn't find and seemed disinterested in doing any further research.

The component had not yet hit his shelves, so when I suggested he take my name and number and give me a call when it came in, he said "We expect it maybe within a month but it would probably be better for you to call in from time to time and see if it's in".

You have to be freaking kidding me!  A solid qualified sales lead from an already 3 time customer and .....

Steve

[DaveC113]

My last experience in a high-end audio store was abysmal.  With cursory reading of available manufacturer sales info I unbelievably knew more than the "salesman" going in.  He couldn't answer my questions about things I couldn't find and seemed disinterested in doing any further research.

The component had not yet hit his shelves, so when I suggested he take my name and number and give me a call when it came in, he said "We expect it maybe within a month but it would probably be better for you to call in from time to time and see if it's in".

You have to be freaking kidding me!  A solid qualified sales lead from an already 3 time customer and .....

Steve

That's worth talking to the owner about.

I had a similar episode at Gebhardt VW Boulder. I ask to check out the Golf R... "We don't have any, the '17s should be in soon". Me: "I need a car now, mine got totaled, can you get one from another dealer?". Her: "You can call around."  No... I can walk out and never come back, and tell everyone how much you suck. 

[macrojack]

In my opinion it has been close to two years since the second shoe dropped from the high end audio carcass. It will hit the floor within 10 more years. The polarization of our marketplace has been idling so far. Expect it to accelerate like crazy beginning later this month.
One of the issues involved in keeping our hobby from the mainstream is our recognition that the experience is ultimately subjective while our calculus is all based on absolutes. Because a reviewer or a small group of hobbyists concur on the place an item can rightfully claim within the hierarchy of competing performers, we then remove subjectivity from consideration and anoint it with an absolute status. It then becomes a benchmark against which newer options are measured absolutely. This house of cards leads us off into a wilderness that appears, quite rightly, to be obsessive and out of touch to non-believers.
Another point to grasp here is that within 10 years an overwhelmingly large percentage of current audiophiles will be leaving the hobby due to death or infirmity. Many of these people are the leadership. Inspiration comes from us geezers. Without us, the impetus that until now has propped us up will be gone. Newcomers and the 20% or so of us who are under 60, will be distracted from the "new" market by a glut of legendary and otherwise desirable used gear landing on eBay and in estate sales.

I suspect, however, that there will be desperation, hunger and camaraderie where we now have greed, selfishness and isolation.

Perhaps young people feel they have been disqualified from the American Dream and must remain mobile and adaptive going forward. For people my age, I foresee a lot of financial pressure centered around food and energy issues. Remember in all your considerations that two things which do not go together well are mortgage and retirement. This is a real issue. The topic of this article is of no lasting consequence.

[Phil A]

In my opinion it has been close to two years since the second shoe dropped from the high end audio carcass. It will hit the floor within 10 more years. The polarization of our marketplace has been idling so far. Expect it to accelerate like crazy beginning later this month.
One of the issues involved in keeping our hobby from the mainstream is our recognition that the experience is ultimately subjective while our calculus is all based on absolutes. Because a reviewer or a small group of hobbyists concur on the place an item can rightfully claim within the hierarchy of competing performers, we then remove subjectivity from consideration and anoint it with an absolute status. It then becomes a benchmark against which newer options are measured absolutely. This house of cards leads us off into a wilderness that appears, quite rightly, to be obsessive and out of touch to non-believers.
Another point to grasp here is that within 10 years an overwhelmingly large percentage of current audiophiles will be leaving the hobby due to death or infirmity. Many of these people are the leadership. Inspiration comes from us geezers. Without us, the impetus that until now has propped us up will be gone. Newcomers and the 20% or so of us who are under 60, will be distracted from the "new" market by a glut of legendary and otherwise desirable used gear landing on eBay and in estate sales.

I suspect, however, that there will be desperation, hunger and camaraderie where we now have greed, selfishness and isolation.

Perhaps young people feel they have been disqualified from the American Dream and must remain mobile and adaptive going forward. For people my age, I foresee a lot of financial pressure centered around food and energy issues. Remember in all your considerations that two things which do not go together well are mortgage and retirement. This is a real issue. The topic of this article is of no lasting consequence.

So true - http://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-news/baby-boomers-home-audio-purchasing-power-fades.html

[undertow]

macrojack
"I suspect, however, that there will be desperation, hunger and camaraderie where we now have greed, selfishness and isolation."

Well this shows especially since the time frame we are talking about is in the last 3 to 4 years. Look at Audiogon... These guys went off the DEEP end protecting their fee's, and even now DELETE the pricing after auctions sell as to not allow anybody to know the going market prices so you gotta pay them another fee for the blue book values which mean nothing anyway accept to dealers that give you the lowest markup for trade in value.

Now they want $150 just to MAYBE find somebody willing to pay 10,000 for a pair of speakers. They increased the risk, hence increasing the price to consumer because not just dealers are upping some of the pricing to ridiculous levels to cover more costs in ADs, and shipping, but so is Joe schmo.

We are just seeing the beginnings of all this playing out. It was like when people decided it was okay to pay $2.25 for a premium 16 ounce cup of coffee, now they figure why not $4.25?

What I love is with Fed Ex I use to ship 300 lb pairs of speakers from one end of the map to the other at around $120 - $150 with standard $1000 in insurance.

Forget it now its tripled in under 10 years .. About $350.00 for the same service, oh and oil is about $60 bucks cheaper, but transportation costs have not come down 1 penny!

Greed will just kill the system period, and high end is no different because it's not a need for a $4.00 coffee, or a pair of $4000.00 speakers that cost nearly 500 to ship now.

[srb]

That's worth talking to the owner about.

They had 5 reviews on Yelp over the past 3 years - 4 5-star and 1 4-star.  Maybe my previous purchases of $250, $600 and $1300 just weren't enough to stimulate interest (which were all "we're bored but we'll do you a favor" sales).

They sold McIntosh and Magneplanar among others and I never could escape the snooty holier-than-thou attitude.  They were the only surviving audio showroom in town beside Best Buy/Magnolia, but they closed their doors last year after 36 years in business.

It probably was because of the already discussed reasons of economy and new audio customer mentality, but their shit attitude must have at least helped fuel their demise.

Steve

[charmerci]

We are just seeing the beginnings of all this playing out. It was like when people decided it was okay to pay $2.25 for a premium 16 ounce cup of coffee, now they figure why not $4.25?

What I love is with Fed Ex I use to ship 300 lb pairs of speakers from one end of the map to the other at around $120 - $150 with standard $1000 in insurance.

Forget it now its tripled in under 10 years .. About $350.00 for the same service, oh and oil is about $60 bucks cheaper, but transportation costs have not come down 1 penny!

Greed will just kill the system period, and high end is no different because it's not a need for a $4.00 coffee, or a pair of $4000.00 speakers that cost nearly 500 to ship now. Audio, high end especially is not immune.

I'm not quite sure how you expect wages to go up. Do you want to work for the same salary year after year? Will you cut your wages to what you earned 10 years ago so I don't have to pay higher prices?

[CanadianMaestro]

I'm not quite sure how you expect wages to go up. Do you want to work for the same salary year after year? Will you cut your wages to what you earned 10 years ago so I don't have to pay higher prices?

Exactly. Inflation is normal. Wage increases are essential for a thriving economy -- it's a good thing, as too many have to work many part-time jobs nowadays to make ends meet. So is a free market economy that's Darwinian -- I support it. Plenty of options out there; shop around.

[undertow]

I'm not quite sure how you expect wages to go up. Do you want to work for the same salary year after year? Will you cut your wages to what you earned 10 years ago so I don't have to pay higher prices?

Oh boy.. Typical...  But if what your saying is did my wages increase TRIPLE as all companies around us tripled prices on basic internet services... No than I have no answer for you, because this is obviously not the case.

And if your saying Fed Ex increased paying drivers as much as share prices... sorry to tell you that's not the case either. Maybe they make $5 bucks an hour more now!

But again this had nothing to do with that, however the so called "Audio" community was a fairly self managing force especially online with places like this.

However, once they figured out share prices have to go up in order to keep the peoples confidence with their weak 401ks from jumping out because of dead stock prices... That's why we are where we are, they need continuous growth to the moon, otherwise the system collapses. Again just saying audio is not immune when it happens.

[charmerci]

Look - when wages go up - the cost of everything goes up. Materials cost more (the cost of the equipment to dig it out of the ground,etc.), the rent goes up and services to run a company cost more.

I'm not saying that just ordinary workers rising wages are the sole reason that costs are going up but it's more the mentality - especially from the top whose compensations have gone through the roof the last few decades.

[srb]

In the golden age of audio (1950-1980) stereo (as we used to call it) was the dominant techie pastime.  No really entertaining alternatives existed.  Now a myriad of options exist to compete with audio on a technical basis for our free time.

That's true but it's more than just available time.  There is only so much disposable income to spread around.

Back in the golden age of audio, we had a television that received free programming via antenna.  The only communications bill was the landline telephone.

As time moved on, we had cable and satellite subscription TV.  We then added large wide screen TVs, home theater systems and rentals of HD set top boxes and DVRs.  We added computers (in 2012 it was reported that the average US household had three computers).

We added home networks with Internet modems, Wi-Fi routers and NAS storage.  We added multiple cellphones and tablets to the network.  Many families are paying $200 - $300 in monthly communication and entertainment fees.

We're spending money on smarthome devices like thermostats, video security and lighting.

There are just so many communications, entertainment and home lifestyle devices and services vying for that income that the high-end stereo for many has had to humble up and hunker down.

Steve

[undertow]

charmerci,

Okay... I understand...

Audiogons rent went up so they had to charge 150.00 an AD now vs. 4 bucks 3 years ago... I get it...

They must be in San Francisco? I guess everything there went up like 5000%. So I agree. I guess all those Audiogon employees went from 10 bucks an hour to 100 bucks an our too at the same time to pay those rents... I need to see if they will hire me!

I stand corrected.

[charmerci]

charmerci,

Okay... I understand...

Audiogons rent went up so they had to charge 150.00 an AD now vs. 4 bucks 3 years ago... I get it...

They must be in San Francisco? I guess everything there went up like 5000%. So I agree. I guess all those Audiogon employees went from 10 bucks an hour to 100 bucks an our too at the same time to pay those rents... I need to see if they will hire me!

I stand corrected.

Get your sarcasm.

It's capitalism. Audiogon can do what they want for whatever reason they want. They don't need to make you happy.

Let's resume the subject.

[undertow]

Get your sarcasm - let's resume the subject.

Agreed... Again I stated something very related to this trend issue with audio currently, and comments made on GREED. I did not try to go into a debate on Keynesian social economics, but I just had to feed a little more rope to see who would hang themselves

[charmerci]

Agreed... Again I stated something very related to this EXACT issue with Audio currently, and comments made on GREED. I did not try to go into a debate on Keynesian social economics, but I just had to feed a little more rope to see who would hang themselves

I'm against greed - but it's a slippery slope. How much is one willing NOT to earn, 100K, million, 100 million? You can't pass laws against it - ultimately. It's a cultural issue.

Did you know that if Bill Gates spent every second picking up individual $20 bills for years, he'd have much less money than he has now?

[undertow]

Well much like audio there is "Theory" and there is "Reality".... Certain things work certain things don't. I was simply illustrating how the greed seeps into everything universally, and for different reasons.

But I can tell you this... Guess what the inflation is not because of wage increases. It's far simpler, its not even by choice of "What somebody is willing to pay"...

It's because the amount of LOAN credit available. So when you can buy a 20,000 dollar pair of speakers with a credit card, guess what 20,000 dollar speakers start popping up!

If the Gov. allows an 18 year old with zero work history accept Mcdonalds for 7 bucks an hour to take a student loan for $50,000 per year... Guess what? That's right the school charges $50,000 per year!

Will they leave money on the table when the credit is available... ? But then again you could essentially file for bankruptcy if you decide to not pay for that 20,000 dollar pair of speakers, however you can't get that student loan evaporated under bankruptcy 

That is where the real economics come into play.

And yes you are correct Free market is at work, and choice is always the key element. So I will take your advise... I will not pay 5000.00 for audio equipment I know I can build for about 800, and just come on forums and complain about people that do decided to keep this "Greed" going 

[charmerci]

. I will not pay 5000.00 for audio equipment I know I can build for about 800, and just come on forums and complain about people that do decided to keep this "Greed" going 

Well, I for one would like to see your price of a piece of audio equipment (800 in materials) sold at your company after you've paid rent/storage/others' wages (not talking about a one person company here/packaging/distribution/design/advertising, taxes etc. I'm sure it'd be closer to 5000 than to 800.

Though you could follow the Dennis Murphy/Philharmonicaudio.com model. One man operation, making less than minimum wage probably - though he still sells a $3700 speaker.

[undertow]

Well, I for one would like to see your price of a piece of audio equipment (800 in materials) sold at your company after you've paid rent/storage/others' wages (not talking about a one person company here/packaging/distribution/design/advertising, taxes etc. I'm sure it'd be closer to 5000 than to 800.

That was exaggeration and simple sarcasm.... Point still stands, we are WAY over valuing many services, and costs involved is the whole of the matter. Why? Because people at the top are looking to cash out on greed yes... And for the Boomer generation its a double edge sword.

Again which will be a challenge moving forward for this industry and many others.